My brother and I bought a Desert Sheep hunt for our father through Jeff Blair from Blair Worldwide Hunting for a Christmas present. Jeff Blair booked the hunt with Larry Heathington as the guide. After the entire hunt was paid for, which is common for prepayment according to Jeff Blair. Larry cancelled the hunt due to supposed health reasons. (We paid Blair Worldwide Hunting – not Larry Heathington) When I called
Jeff Blair to have the hunt booked with another guide, his response was, “I am like a travel agent and not responsible for cancelled flights.” Jeff kept all of his commission as the “booking agent and not responsible for anything else” and wouldn’t return a penny or help us with finding another guide. My brother and I have never received a phone call from Jeff, regarding anything about this hunt. He has made no effort of any kind to find another guide, re-book the hunt, nothing. Jeff Blair told my father, who has booked many hunts through Jeff, “Welcome to the real world of hunting.” I understand that sometimes things go wrong, but for Jeff not to do the right thing, and at least return his commission, is totally unacceptable. I think if he treats his clients this way, they should find other booking agents that follow their clients until the hunt is finished. We paid a premium price for this hunt ($70,000), but we also were expecting premium services. I have learned that Jeff Blair from Blair Worldwide Hunting overcharges his clients and under delivers (by a long way). A total rip-off!! Never book through Blair Worldwide Hunting!

I didn’t think that the booking/outfitter industry was like this. Do you think booking agents should be held responsible for things like this or is this “the real world of hunting?”

That is not 'the real world of hunting'.
I get unsolicited emails from Jeff Blair and it looks like I was fortunate not to book anything with him.

Would love to see him on here explaining his side of things.

What a piece of trash, and the outfitter to.

Deplorable behavior. Does anyone know Jeff Blair well enough to have him come on here and defend himself? If he doesn't do so, let's hope his business suffers the consequences.

Isn't there a contract that one signs before dropping $70k into a black hole?

Edit: One question....did you get the $70k back?

So, you got the $70k - Jeffs commission returned? How much was the commission?

Assuming your tale is true (and I'm not suggesting it isn't, but the internet is, amazingly enough, not totally honest), when did you book this hunt? When did you pay for it?

Larry Heathington is the nut who was widely publicized both in here and across the net for "disappearing" for a few days, leaving his booked hunters in the lurch, and finally reappearing with some complete BS story about being robbed and kidnapped. This was in Sept 2009. A few seconds worth of googling SHOULD have told you that he was a flake, at best, and, more likely, an outright thief.

Again, assuming veracity on your part, you need a lawyer soonest IMO.

+1.

Unacceptable.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Assuming your tale is true (and I'm not suggesting it isn't, but the internet is, amazingly enough, not totally honest), when did you book this hunt? When did you pay for it?

Larry Heathington is the nut who was widely publicized both in here and across the net for "disappearing" for a few days, leaving his booked hunters in the lurch, and finally reappearing with some complete BS story about being robbed and kidnapped. This was in Sept 2009. A few seconds worth of googling SHOULD have told you that he was a flake, at best, and, more likely, an outright thief.

Again, assuming veracity on your part, you need a lawyer soonest IMO.

+1 No need to go getting all riled up at this post. Only his second post here and the other he made was just a duplicate of this one and both are long on story but short on details. Who are you, when did you book this hunt, when/where was the hunt to take place, did you get any of your money back, have you pursued legal action.....Just the kind of details one would leave out of a made up story. Now this could all be the gospel, but when someone no one knows from Adam screams out from the anonymity of the internet what a no good son of a bitch someone else is-you really have to wonder, because even if not a drop of this is true, it will damage the reputation and business of the accused.

You are exactly right as far as Larry Heathington widely publicized for disappearing and leaving booked hunters in the lurch. This is exactly why I am so upset with Jeff Blair. It is totally his responsibility to do the research on the guides he books his clients with. When I signed the contract for $70,000, I never heard of Larry Heathington and didn't do any research because I was booking through who I thought was the best outfitter in the business and he turned out to be a crook. Once the hunt was cancelled, it only took me about 10 minutes on the Internet to see that this so called great outfitter booked me with a crooked guide (at least they have something in common.) As far as any refunds that I have gotten from either party is nothing. $70,000 out the window.
This is the exact reason that I cannot believe that Jeff hasn't at least returned his commission. He obviously is in this business for one reason. $$$$$$

I've gotta go along with jcarr. Not enough detes. Did you get any of your money back? How much? Was Blair up-front about it or did you have to hassle him? DID YOU CHECK OUT ANY OF THE REFERENCES YOU GOT before you laid down $70K? Too many holes to take it as the whole cloth.
I too would love to have Blair tune in here.

quote:

Larry Heathington

Facebook anyone?

http://www.facebook.com/people...gton/100001743944292

I note that you are still not supplying details such as when you committed to buying the hunt, when you sent the money, when the hunt was scheduled, when was it cancelled (lead time)etc.

Nothing personal, but if I was going to send $70,000 to someone for a hunt, I'd spend some serious time researching that someone.

IMO if you're not willing to sue, there is something wrong with your statements.

Something smells bad here.

I have booked several thousand dollars of hunts with blair and had some good and bad outcomes BUT this deal in my opinion is really bad. I happen to know these people and even went over to talk to blair at the sci show in reno trying to get him to call them and after all the buissiness I have given him over the years he treated me in a manner that I will never do business with him and will tell everyone else the story. The dad in this event has been a long term client of blairs also and had booked several thousand dollars of stuff with them.

We gave this hunt to our father on Christmas Day of 2008. I paid the first $35,000 in Dec. '08. My brother paid the remaining $35,000 in Dec. '09 and the hunt was suppose to take place January 2010. There are lawyers hired and legal action is currently in process.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt Fisher:
We gave this hunt to our father on Christmas Day of 2008. I paid the first $35,000 in Dec. '08. My brother paid the remaining $35,000 in Dec. '09 and the hunt was suppose to take place January 2010. There are lawyers hired and legal action is currently in process.

Good for you, go get 'em.

I don't know what the hunt contract looked like, but it sounds to me like Blair should be on the hook for all of it and if it turns out that he isn't, and if you don't get your money back from Heathington then he should go to jail.

I would like to ask a question sir. Actually three questions. I ask these in the spirit of trying to understand.

Why has it taken 13 months to bring this up?

Has a lawsuit been filed? If so, when and where?

Have you filed a complaint with the police? If so, when and where?

I have been on the receiving end of something like this before. The amounts were much smaller ($12,000) and in another country. I had a civil judgment and had the gentleman arrested in substantially less time than 13 months.

Once again, I am trying to understand and not badger you.

There is one other thing I just noted. You did not just show up. You registered almost a year ago.

A few years back I got an e-mail from Blair with an offer for s hunt. I did a little due diligence and checked them out on the hunting report. As I recall, there were about 12 reports of which 8 were negative. 67% negative to me spells not going to do business with them. I figure agents will have a few unhappy customers, thats just business, but to me the percentage Blair had was a real red flag. SOrry to hear of your situation, really does suck.

Larry,
I signed up to be a member of Accurate Reloading last April to do exactly what I did today. This was when the hunt was officially cancelled and we were out the $70,000. After I signed up, I took a deep breath and told myself that this is not the right way to go about this matter. This is not the type of person I am to complain about the actions of another publicly. I thought we could handle this not in the public eye but do it as a standard business transaction, I was wrong. When we asked for at least what he made on the sale of this hunt, we were shocked with his response, "Welcome to the real world of hunting" Can you believe that. We did not file a complaint with the police, but we did file one with Arizona's Attorney General and Arizona Consumer Fraud. We filed a judgment on May 3rd 2010 against Larry Heathington, for he has most of the $70,000. There has been no signs that Jeff Blair is going to do anything to help us cut our losses and at least give us back his profit. So now, 13 months later, I want to make all the hunters aware of his shady business moves, so they don't get duped.

HF:

What do you mean when you say you "filed a judgment"?

Did you have a written contract with Blair?

To be honest, I doubt there is much of a claim against Blair. He can't be responsible for what some Company did or did not do on a hunt. However, depending on what the contract says, he could have liability if he knew or should have known about the problems with Heathington.

As an FYI, it is very possible to get a desert big horn for a lot less than $70,000 in 2010. I know people that took big rams in Mexico for less than $40,000. I took one in 2010 in Utah for about $53,000.

Are the authorities going to do anything?

I get e mails from these guys all the time. This is the only booking agent that makes cold calls to me. That always struck me as odd.

I can tell you of a reputable booking agent that has voluntarily given back his commissions when something went wrong.

I am sorry this happened to you.

Please let us know what happens.

Larry:

I'm not a lawyer but I disagree about Blair's responsibility. As an example, if you hire a general contractor to, say, build a house for you and you then advance him X dollars to have the stonework done. Stonemason gets $10,000 of the advance to buy stone and flees the scene. You aren't going to look to the stonemason to finish the job or refund your money, you're going to look to the general contractor.

If the check was made out to Blair I would be so far up his ass with an attorney he would still have hell to look forward to. I get sick of these booking agents that get into a scrape with their outfits and guides and think they share no liability. You want hunter's money with no risk and as little work as possible on your part. Tough Sh!t and welcome to the real world.

As far as the pricing of the sheep hunts, you are exactly right. I take full responsibility for not looking into his pricing as much as I should have. This was the first and only hunt that I have ever booked through an outfitter. I used Blair because I knew my dad had used him many times before and trusted him. Jeff knew that I wasn't going to look into going with anyone else after our first phone call. I was only 28 years old when I paid $35,000 (my portion) for this hunt and he took full advantage knowing that he had a green-horn client that trusted him. That is the biggest reason I want his commission profit back. As far as a claim against Blair, you are also right. He had it worded in his contract that he is not resposible for anything after he hooks a client and a guide up. Ethically and morally, if I was him I would feel partially responsible for the events that happened. I have never asked him to repay the entire $70,000 nor do I think that he should. I do not want Jeff to lose money with us, but I don't think that he should have profited as much as did and all of that profit coming from two sons giving their father a CHRISTMAS present. I don't know what his profit was, he won't tell us, but we paid $70,000 and you know people that paid less than $40,000. That is easy math, $30,000. Merry Christmas Jeff Blair!!!

Gato:

That is a completely different situation. Blair is not the equivalent of a general contractor in this case. He is a sales agent. Now if there was a contract with Blair to be the hunting company and they subbed this out to Heathington, that would be different.

I have never seen his contract but most that I have seen tend to limit liability. Depending on what the contract says and what other representations were made, he may or may not have liability.

I would also be on Blair's behind in a severe way. I would not limit this to attorneys. I would get it in the press as well. The real threat to Blair is for this word to get spread far and wide. That would cost them severely.

As I said earlier, I had someone fail to provide a hunt I paid for. There was no booking agent. I sued him and got a judgment. I turned him into the police. He was arrested and plead guilty. Even better, I got this in the papers. It made the front page in the largest paper in the south island of New Zealand. The crowning blow was that I learned about the person in question scamming women. A bunch of women. We got a front page story on those escapades and it was also on TV. This guy was totally unable to function in this industry ever again. It was far more difficult for him to scam women.

If this were me, I would be talking to the Hunting Report in addition to putting this on every hunting website possible. I would have sued him long ago. I would be pressing the authorities to press charges. It works. I have been there done that.

no matter what the contract said what happened to doing the right thing? What service did he provide? The hunt never took place. Blair did this to the sons of a long term client,everyone beware.

Who knows if he ever gave money to this other outfitter/guide. Blair could be sitting on all the money and using this other crook as a patsy. I have a hard time believing a contract will hold up that says a person that sells a service doesn't have to provide you with any sservice at all if a subcontractor gets shifty.

HF:

I largely agree with you and others. Even if he has no legal responsibility, he has an ethical responsibility. I sure as hell would be refunding my commission and hounding the hell out of Heathington if I were in his shoes.

Is is impossible to say how much he made. It depends on whether he got just a commission or whether he got a commission and a mark up on on the hunt. Personally, I have a big problem with the latter. Commissions are usually about 15% from what I am told. It is also possible that he marked the hunt up for further profit. Who knows, we don't have enough info. It is at least theoretically possible he made nothing. I doubt it though.

Blair constantly calls me trying to get me to book a hunt. Next time they call I'm gonna ask about this hunt and how it went.

For some reason, I'm on his calling list too. Why I have no idea but I don't think they'll enjoy the next conversation when they call me again.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
For some reason, I'm on his calling list too. Why I have no idea but I don't think they'll enjoy the next conversation when they call me again.

It may be just coincidence but I started getting the calls around the same time I started getting the hunting report. They are relentless.

The only indication I've seen as to locations of all this is you mentioned the AZ Attorney General.

Which part of these participants are in AZ?

Reason I'm asking is that the AZ International Sportsman's Expo is running this weekend. Maybe one of these dirtbag players will be there? Maybe you and (AHEM) some buddies can go do some walking around there and see who's there??

I am also on his list, flyers and calls, I will anxously await his next call and give him some shit.

HF:

A name would help us all give Blair hell the next time he calls us. Personally i get called several times a year. I won't be shy.

I think a bunch of us should call them inquiring about big dollar hunts. Then question them about this matter. That will get their attention.

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:
I am also on his list, flyers and calls, I will anxously await his next call and give him some shit.

+1

I totally agree with Gato, and for once, dumberthanthou. If you gave the money to Blair, it's up to Blair to give it back. And ethics doesn't enter into it. Use the word "ethics" in a court of law and they'll laugh 'til their gums bleed.
Let's suppose that Blair gave some to the guide, some to the horse wrangler, a bunch to a hooker in Casper, and dropped a bundle in Vegas. Are you supposed to hunt all of these people down to get your money??
The point is Blair owes you the money. The guide only enters into it when Blair sues him to try to recover any money HE has given him.

I'm still waiting for Blair to chime in.

HF,

I'm sorry this has happened to you and hope you get your $$$ back from this POS. I also get cold-called by Blair, to the tune of AT LEAST 6-10 times over the last 2-3 years, cant wait for the next one ...

Best of luck to you,
Craig Nolan

I am the father who received the $70,000 desert sheep hunt from my sons for Christmas. What an incredible present!
I have booked numerous hunts with Jeff Blair. These would include many North American hunts and hunts to other countries. I would report that all went as advertised and I've had confidence in Blair Worldwide Hunting. This is the reason my kids booked this surprise Christmas present with him. So--just because you have had good hunting experiences with him does not mean you won't be screwed on your next one.
I had the pleasure to talk to Jeff Blair at the Grand Slam/Ovis convention on Wednesday, Feb. 23rd. I again asked him if he planned to return the $10,000 he overcharged for the hunt and his $6,000-9,000 in commission for a total of $16-$19,000. His response was "our conversation is over and you know who my attorney is". I said he was going to regret that. His response as he rudely walked away was "Bring it on".

I too am constantly cold called by this guy.

I would suggest you post this on 24 hr and other websites as well. Saeed's site is the best, but I would get the word out.

I will never book a hunt with Blair.

quote:

Originally posted by northface:
I am the father who received the $70,000 desert sheep hunt from my sons for Christmas. What an incredible present!
I have booked numerous hunts with Jeff Blair. These would include many North American hunts and hunts to other countries. I would report that all went as advertised and I've had confidence in Blair Worldwide Hunting. This is the reason my kids booked this surprise Christmas present with him. So--just because you have had good hunting experiences with him does not mean you won't be screwed on your next one.
I had the pleasure to talk to Jeff Blair at the Grand Slam/Ovis convention on Wednesday, Feb. 23rd. I again asked him if he planned to return the $10,000 he overcharged for the hunt and his $6,000-9,000 in commission for a total of $16-$19,000. His response was "our conversation is over and you know who my attorney is". I said he was going to regret that. His response as he rudely walked away was "Bring it on".

In a quick daydream I just had you pulling a sixgun and shooting that MF in the back. I HATE hearing of thievery, and in particular, arrogant thieves make my blood boil.

Hope your sons get back what is theirs.

Have you all had any contact with the Heathington character? It would be interesting what he has to say.