quote:

I comprehend that when this lion was shot the hunter probably thought it was older,
who that was present has stated the above?
didn't know it had young cubs,
who that was present has stated the above?
didn't know it was the last male there
WHo has determined that the above is true?
(if that is all true).
Are you stating "if it is true that the hunters didn't know these things? Or are you stating "if your above stated assumptions about the lion are true?
Do i think the hunter and PH should be punished in some way for this event?
for what? genuine or intentional??
No providing they were all genuine mistakes.
Please name 1 mistake that was made.
What may have appeared to be an ethical kill turned out not to be an ethical kill, no judgement on the hunter etc.
Please inform me 1 fact about this kill that was "unethical". Who besides you (from what I can tell) and the rediculous specist on the facebook page are "judging" anyone?

quote:

I comprehend that when this lion was shot the hunter probably thought it was older,

who that was present has stated the above?

didn't know it had young cubs,

who that was present has stated the above?

didn't know it was the last male there

WHo has determined that the above is true?

quote:

if that is all true).

Are you stating "if it is true that the hunters didn't know these things? Or are you stating "if your above stated assumptions about the lion are true?

quote:

Do i think the hunter and PH should be punished in some way for this event?

for what? genuine or intentional??

quote:

No providing they were all genuine mistakes.

Please name 1 mistake that was made.

quote:

What may have appeared to be an ethical kill turned out not to be an ethical kill, no judgement on the hunter etc.

Please inform me 1 fact about this kill that was "unethical". Who besides you (from what I can tell) and the rediculous specist on the facebook page are "judging" anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

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Bradley,
Here is your homework assignment for the weekend.

Go back and re-read, for retention this time, all the threads where this has been discussed before.

After that...since you are logical, rational, and reasonable...I am sure you'll be up to snuff on my opinion and ready to debate with Aaron while glassing for some big horns out in the eastern Colorado prairie.

J. Lane Easter, DVM
DRSS

Lane,
1st of all, my name is not "Bradley", 2nd of all, don't be a prick, it was a sincere question and since YOU made the statement, I was interested in your thoughts on that subject. 3rd, for anyone interested, Lane is one of the founding members of the LCTF and his above approach to my question sums up quite nicely their attitude towards other hunters, particularly those who dare to question their "expertise". Lane, you really are a world class, miserable P.O.S.

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Not other hunters...just you Brad!

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Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

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Not other hunters...just you Brad!

so, are you going to answer the question or not?

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Brad,
You have asked me this very same question before and all we did is argue about it.

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Baiting is the best method of hunting to get a feel for if a lion is with a pride. Preferably...the PH hunting the said area will have thorough and recent experience in the area and have some feel about the prides in the area. IE: have seen the resident lioness in the area and noted if they have cubs and what the male of the pride looks like. I realize this is a perfect world and not going to be the case all of the time or not even possible in some areas. But if one is hunting a block alot...even thick areas like Chewore and Dande...you will bump the lioness from time to time and see the male occasionally.

But...at the very least...one should see the lion on bait a couple of different times...if not in person...at least on a trail cam. Actually trail cams are preferred as they can monitor for a while to see if lioness are coming as well. If the lion is with lioness...you should probably pass...unless...you get the luxury of having them on bait for a while and never seeing cubs present.

If one takes these steps...I feel they have done the best possible.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Baiting is the best method of hunting to get a feel for if a lion is with a pride. Preferably...the PH hunting the said area will have thorough and recent experience in the area and have some feel about the prides in the area. IE: have seen the resident lioness in the area and noted if they have cubs and what the male of the pride looks like. I realize this is a perfect world and not going to be the case all of the time or not even possible in some areas. But if one is hunting a block alot...even thick areas like Chewore and Dande...you will bump the lioness from time to time and see the male occasionally.

But...at the very least...one should see the lion on bait a couple of different times...if not in person...at least on a trail cam. Actually trail cams are preferred as they can monitor for a while to see if lioness are coming as well. If the lion is with lioness...you should probably pass...unless...you get the luxury of having them on bait for a while and never seeing cubs present.

If one takes these steps...I feel they have done the best possible.

Thank You for your response. Are the above "best practices" from your personal experience or just what you have heard from others?

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Both.

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Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

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Both.

Would you mind expanding on your personal lion hunting experience, either as a ph or hunter? i.e. lion hunts you have participated in and followed your stated "best practices" (my words, not yours).

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Originally posted by ledvm:
...a hunter and a steward of the animals I hunt!!!

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I have never been able to afford a lion hunt for myself. That is no secret. I would like to hunt lion...but realistically in today's world with today's Africa, unless the LCTF can turn it around, lion hunting probably won't exist when I can afford it. I am 46 years old and have a 2 year old son. I would like to think that in 16 years that we could go lion hunting together...but partly due to hard-headed people like yourself Brad that refuse to see the forest for the trees...we probably won't be able to.

Your rush to point the finger at others from your self appointed position is far more detrimental to your cause than my mere disagreements with your misrepresentations. You know absolutely nothing about me outside of this forum, yet you relish shaking your finger in my face (and others). Rather than just making slanderous accusations, please inform me (and others) the specifics of what I have done to bring about the end of lion hunting?

You probably think because you have killed a lion that you know more than I. Well if you have not figured it out already...I don't see it your way. I have spent countless hours involved in learning about the lion in all aspects...not just hunting.

I would never be so presumptuous as to say I know much about lion hunting, that would be the equivelent of me going into a room full of avid whitetail hunters after killing my first buck and start running my mouth telling everyone what to do and how to do it. Which, would be very similar to you coming on here and labeling yourself the expert while second guessing professionals or even those who had experienced it at least once. THere is another group that does something very similar, you can read a bunch of their posts on the facebook page posted at the beginning of this thread.

I have spent a fair amount of time looking at lion in Africa and I have a best friend who is one of the more experienced PH's in Africa...Nigel Theisen. The amount of time I have spent talking to the scientific experts about lions and studying their biology and ecology rivals all. The very reason this section of AR exists is because I asked for it.

I think that is great, no doubt Nigel is an expert, why don't you get him on here during the off season so that we can have some truly experienced professionals giving us their opinions and version of the facts.

Outside of African lion...I would match my years hunting, and number of animals taken against most. I will also match my diversty in education against most.

This is also great, perhaps you could get Saeed to start the "Outside of Africa Lion Hunting Conservation Forum", or the "Veterinarian Race Horse Medicine" Forum, no doubt you would be better suited at moderating those.

And...I can also say without hesitation...that had I spent $70K on a lion hunt...I would not have shot it in the dark with out knowing better what he was than you did. Not because I couldn't but because I could! Pulling the trigger is the EASIEST part of hunting. The killing is almost anti-climatic. The "proper hunt"'is what it is about for me and doing what is right on this Earth that God gave us to use as our hunting grounds.

You can say whatever you want "without hesitation", that does not make it fact or anything more substantial than your typical internet forum chest beating bravado. You cannot say factually what you would do, until you have committed the money, put in the time, sat in the blind and actually had the opportunity to make the decision. To date, you have not, yet you want others to take you seriously when you shake your finger in their face telling them what they did was wrong, or even advising them what they should do once they are in the position that you have never been in yourself? That is truly rediculous. As for "pulling the trigger is the easiest part of hunting", perhaps for you, but you have no right to assume that everyone hunts the same way you do. I have news for you, I agree with the fact that the "kill" is "anti-climatic" (for me), but the moments leading up to the time when the gunshot and recoil break my complete concentration on a hundred different issues, i.e. am I on the right animal, have I chosen the right animal, is this the animal I came here to kill, is the animal in the right position, when I pull this trigger am I going to hit this animal in the vitals, what are the repurcussions on me and others if I do not kill this animal with this shot, etc, etc, all of this while going through the checklist my father engrained in me as a child of how to properly shoot, breathing squeezing, etc.etc. makes pulling the trigger one of the most stressful, responsibility laden, stomach churning times of the hunt. And as far as being a good steward of what our good Lord gave us, I agree. With that said, I think it is time that those who are brave enough to post their pics on here should be recognized, they stick their necks out knowing that inexperienced idiots like you are probably going to try to tear them down and second guess the decisions they have made. They do it regardless of the fact that they and their ph's are going to get armchair quarterbacked by a bunch of people with not even a fraction of the experience, if any at all. They do it knowing that people are going to make fun of them for things as rediculous as how they look. They do it knowing that others just as small on here are going to side against them. They do it knowing that they are going to be judged in front of others that they respect and respect them. That takes balls and courage, and I hope they know that they and their reports are the life blood of this forum (for me). If there were no hunting reports on here, I would not be here, It is how I get through my day, living vicariously through others who are getting to do what I wish I was doing, WELL DONE GUYS AND GALS, please don't stop.

So Brad...go ahead and make whatever point it is that you are headed towards. I will still feel exactly the same way and be the same person afterwards...a hunter and a steward of the animals I hunt!!!

what animals do you hunt? I think I saw a buffalo once, why don't you post some pics of some of the other animals you have hunted, make sure you include a couple of the mistakes (or have you never made one of those?), my prayer is that those on here will congratulate you on your efforts rather than tear you down the way you and others have done them.

J. Lane Easter, DVM
DRSS