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You're having a giraffe aren't you?

I have no idea what that means?

Let's get right to the point. Show me once where you have taken personal responsibility or admitted any on the conversation of who is responsible for a 'bad' kill?

What bad kill? If you are speaking in hypotheticals, the person who pulls the trigger is responsible for the death or wounding of the game, 100% of the time.

Twisted your words, no!! I have only highlighted your belief that all responsibility lies with the PH, outfitter and park governments

You are again twisting my words, I have said the game departments, land owners, concession operators are responsible for the complete management of their resource.

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IF the lion in this case had turned out to be a lot, lot younger whose fault would you have said it was?

If frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their ass when they hop, what are you talking about?

And on a slightly different note how could you possibly make a call together when you have already stated you had no idea how old the lion was?

Very easily, we had this lion on bait with 2 females for 2 weeks, we had seen his tracks, his mane hair, his behaviour at the bait, we had even seen him early in the hunt but he would not stand for a shot. We used our God given ability of deductive reasoning and concluded this was the same cat when he did present a shot, and killed him. Guess what, we were right, it was the same cat, and it was a great lion. Heaven forbid, a hunter succeed.

And with respect coming from a man who wasted bandwidth with an attention seeking thread about being an idiot, please take a look at yourself first.

No doubt, that or this will not be the last foolishness I have partaken in.

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If you are speaking in hypotheticals, the person who pulls the trigger is responsible for the death or wounding of the game, 100% of the time.

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IF the lion in this case had turned out to be a lot, lot younger whose fault would you have said it was?

If frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their ass when they hop, what are you talking about?

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And on a slightly different note how could you possibly make a call together when you have already stated you had no idea how old the lion was?

Very easily, we had this lion on bait with 2 females for 2 weeks, we had seen his tracks, his mane hair, his behaviour at the bait, we had even seen him early in the hunt but he would not stand for a shot. We used our God given ability of deductive reasoning and concluded this was the same cat when he did present a shot, and killed him. Guess what, we were right, it was the same cat, and it was a great lion. Heaven forbid, a hunter succeed.

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505Gibbs,

Sorry my bad i forget i'm not talking to just English folk. Having a giraffe is having a laugh.


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If you are speaking in hypotheticals, the person who pulls the trigger is responsible for the death or wounding of the game, 100% of the time.



Thank you.


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IF the lion in this case had turned out to be a lot, lot younger whose fault would you have said it was?

If frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their ass when they hop, what are you talking about?



Nice avoidance of answering the question.


I didn't avoid anything, I assumed you would remember what you read above in my response as to who is responsible for killing game, I just didn't repeat myself.

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And on a slightly different note how could you possibly make a call together when you have already stated you had no idea how old the lion was?

Very easily, we had this lion on bait with 2 females for 2 weeks, we had seen his tracks, his mane hair, his behaviour at the bait, we had even seen him early in the hunt but he would not stand for a shot. We used our God given ability of deductive reasoning and concluded this was the same cat when he did present a shot, and killed him. Guess what, we were right, it was the same cat, and it was a great lion. Heaven forbid, a hunter succeed.



Seems to be some contradiction here. You claimed you had no idea how old the lion was and yet now claim to have been following him for days. Which is it? Did you have an idea or didn't you?

Jo, this is one of the problems with this medium, people refer to things that were posted earlier in other "conversations" or even on other forums and consequently you do not know the whole story. This story was originally posted in it's entirety in a hunt report in 2010. It was then abbreviated and posted on this forum a few months back. It was then abbreviated even further by those wanting to make an example of me to people like you. I understand that you would have no frame of reference for these things, but that does not mean that I am changing or adding to my story or recollection of events. And you would be well served to know that you are judging others actions based on incomplete information.

So you thought you knew this was the same cat? Well you no what thought did, dont ya?

All I can speak to is what "thought did" on this occassion as I am not familiar with that slang. This time it resulted in a dead lion, which turned out to be the exact lion we thought it was. It also ended in a tired yet satisfied hunter, a paid operator, well paid locals, factual and financial reinforcement of the lion hunting/conservation business model, established multiple mutually beneficial friendships, should I keep going?

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Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

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Originally posted by Bwanamich
So if you have a quota of 1 lion (which would probably be what is required!) and you shoot it on the 1st hunt and the next 3 hunters along do see a >6 lion on their trip but are not allowed to shoot it because your quota is done, is that desirable?

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All I can speak to is what "thought did" on this occassion as I am not familiar with that slang. This time it resulted in a dead lion, which turned out to be the exact lion we thought it was. It also ended in a tired yet satisfied hunter, a paid operator, well paid locals, factual and financial reinforcement of the lion hunting/conservation business model, established multiple mutually beneficial friendships, should I keep going?

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Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

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Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
....with someone as admittedly dishonest as you if I was.


care to explain?

Michael,
Do you not work for in some capacity or own in some portion Tanzania Game Tracker Safaris (TGTS)? I work for TGTS and WWS

I had heard from many before that your organization booked more lion hunts than it had tags, Care to name who these "many others" are? or are you just making this up, Brad I always wrote that off as "sour grapes", until you posted the below on this forum. I actually could not believe what I was reading, so I and 2 others asked you multiple times to say who you were and if you were condoning such practices, you never replied. Perhaps you would like to clarify now, here are 2 questions.

1) Has TGTS ever sold or booked more lion hunts than it had tags/quota?

2) Has TGTS ever allowed a client to come hunting for a "lion" it no longer had tags/quota to hunt as you state below in your post?

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Originally posted by Bwanamich
So if you have a quota of 1 lion (which would probably be what is required!) and you shoot it on the 1st hunt and the next 3 hunters along do see a >6 lion on their trip but are not allowed to shoot it because your quota is done, is that desirable?

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you claimed to see the shadow of a cat

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Then you claim you and your PH had been following this cat for days and were pretty sure it was the same one.

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Now either you saw the cat and knew it was the same one or you didn't?

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It all could have turned out so differently.
My point was not about who and who didn't benefit, it was about your contradictory words.

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As to my quote above from another thread under a different topic and discussion, you have taken it totally out of context. Only you could come to the conclusion you did. Honestly I have no desire to explain it further Brad as you will no doubt retain what meaning you wish to derive from it.

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1) Has TGTS ever sold or booked more lion hunts than it had tags/quota?

2) Has TGTS ever allowed a client to come hunting for a "lion" it no longer had tags/quota to hunt as you state below in your post?

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Last night, 1 female came to water, male and 1 female came to bait. It was completely dark, light was not an option as the male would not stand fo it. I could see his mane (outline) in the moonlight and he looked to be 40% larger than the female. i shot him with no idea how old he was, what color his body was, how big his mane was, what color his nose was, if he had spots or black patches on his legs. It was a tremendous experience and I wouldn't do anything different if I had the opportunity to do it again.

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I claimed no such thing, and for you to put words in my mouth is consistent with your previous dishonesty

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Once again, I never claimed that my PH and I had been following anything,

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Very easily, we had this lion on bait with 2 females for 2 weeks, we had seen his tracks, his mane hair, his behaviour at the bait, we had even seen him early in the hunt but he would not stand for a shot.

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once again, you are mistaken, it is not "either / or". Of course we saw the cat, if you would like to know the most accurate description of what I saw, go find the original report. We felt with reasonable certainty that it was the same one and we turned out to be right.

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i shot him with no idea how old he was, what color his body was, how big his mane was, what color his nose was, if he had spots or black patches on his legs.

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You are absolutely right, we could have gone over to the dead cat and it turned out to be an escaped tiger with a snare and a bush around it's neck, or a lioness with multiple glandular disorders, and don't forget the possible alien or unknown species possibility. BUT IT WASN"T, IT WAS EXACTLY WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS!!! And as for your accusation of "contradictory words", that is completely false, and you are not doing yourself any favors with your repeated misrepresentations.

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i shot him with no idea how old he was

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I am NOT Bwanamich as you know Brad...but to the best of my knowledge...quite the converse is true...TGTS kills far fewer lion than it has tags per year.

In your quote of Bwanamich...I think you have taken him out of context as he is asking a question (see ? at end ) and insinuating that the scenario would be bad.

J. Lane Easter, DVM
DRSS

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Last night, 1 female came to water, male and 1 female came to bait. It was completely dark, light was not an option as the male would not stand fo it. I could see his mane (outline) in the moonlight and he looked to be 40% larger than the female. i shot him with no idea how old he was, what color his body was, how big his mane was, what color his nose was, if he had spots or black patches on his legs. It was a tremendous experience and I wouldn't do anything different if I had the opportunity to do it again.



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I claimed no such thing, and for you to put words in my mouth is consistent with your previous dishonesty


Sorry my bad you claimed to see an outline.


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Once again, I never claimed that my PH and I had been following anything,


You sure?
Really sure?

Ya, I'm sure

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Very easily, we had this lion on bait with 2 females for 2 weeks, we had seen his tracks, his mane hair, his behaviour at the bait, we had even seen him early in the hunt but he would not stand for a shot.



Are you sure you weren't following him?

do I really need to reply to this one too?

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once again, you are mistaken, it is not "either / or". Of course we saw the cat, if you would like to know the most accurate description of what I saw, go find the original report. We felt with reasonable certainty that it was the same one and we turned out to be right.



You didn't know it was the same cat at all otherwise you wouldn't have said :-

No, actually, the below is what is called "honesty", The lion was wild, my PH had not kept track of his birthdays, I had not x-rayed his teeth, it was dark to the point that I could not tell the difference in tawny or tan color, I could not tell the color of his nose, I could not tell if all of his spots had faded, I could not tell whether he had dark spots on the backs of his legs. Honesty Jo, honesty.

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i shot him with no idea how old he was, what color his body was, how big his mane was, what color his nose was, if he had spots or black patches on his legs.



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You are absolutely right, we could have gone over to the dead cat and it turned out to be an escaped tiger with a snare and a bush around it's neck, or a lioness with multiple glandular disorders, and don't forget the possible alien or unknown species possibility. BUT IT WASN"T, IT WAS EXACTLY WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS!!! And as for your accusation of "contradictory words", that is completely false, and you are not doing yourself any favors with your repeated misrepresentations.


It also could have turned out to be a 3 or 4 year old lion considering you had no idea how old he was as below:-

There is that possibility, however unlikely. But, it wasn't, so why are you busting my balls?

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i shot him with no idea how old he was


Now please show me where i have been dishonest?
I hasten to add you do not do yourself any favours either with your contradictory words regarding this kill. Oh and if you want me to read the rest please link me to the thread. Or are you afraid i will find more contradictions?

Go look it up, this site has a search function and I am not your secretary. I understand I have fed your expectations of what I should do for you by continuing down this rediculous trail of questioning, with that said, I am done with you on this topic. I will however share a lesson I have learned from you with some of our other posters, if they are interested....DON"T FEED THE BEARS!!

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That isn't a threat but rather a challenge to improve our story.