quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I actually gave him a smaller amount of money than I might have if they had not wanted me to fill out the list.

quote:

BTW a great job does not equal dead animals and huge trophies.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikee-NZ:
This is a very interesting thread (spent the last hour reading the whole thing) given I come from a country where tipping is not done at all.

On my one and only trip to the USA tipping really did my head in. Having to carry large amounts of small bills and effectively "pay extra" for everything.

Why don't employers just pay their staff properly??

I really would like to go hunt in Alaska but to be honest the whole though of paying a large sum of money and then take 20% extra for tips just does my head in.

Yes I do realise this is how things are done in other parts of the world but spare a though for those of us lucky enough to live where its not an accepted practice and actually frowned upon

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
3 years ago hunting buffalo in Australia I was informed when settling up the bill, to tip the guide and tip him well so he would come back and work again the following year. Tips ARE expected and a certain amount is strongly expected.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Mikee-NZ:


Do you think this "expectation of tips" is also dependent on the "country of origin" of the paying hunter??

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Here we go, Americans are expected to pay tips
Just the way the world is...

quote:

Originally posted by Mikee-NZ:
This is a very interesting thread (spent the last hour reading the whole thing) given I come from a country where tipping is not done at all.

On my one and only trip to the USA tipping really did my head in. Having to carry large amounts of small bills and effectively "pay extra" for everything.

Why don't employers just pay their staff properly??

I really would like to go hunt in Alaska but to be honest the whole though of paying a large sum of money and then take 20% extra for tips just does my head in.

Yes I do realise this is how things are done in other parts of the world but spare a though for those of us lucky enough to live where its not an accepted practice and actually frowned upon

quote:

Originally posted by Zimbabwe Wildlife Conservation:
In our camps staff are paid to do a job. And are paid above average wages, a tip is a gift of appreciation not a "right" if you are not happy with your wages, find another job that pays you better. We also have fewer staff than most camps. And we multi task, the waiter doubles up as the tent cleaner, and he does the laundry and ironing. A good guy can do all the above, and still have spare down time in camp every day we out hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Zimbabwe Wildlife Conservation:
In our camps staff are paid to do a job. And are paid above average wages, a tip is a gift of appreciation not a "right" if you are not happy with your wages, find another job that pays you better. We also have fewer staff than most camps. And we multi task, the waiter doubles up as the tent cleaner, and he does the laundry and ironing. A good guy can do all the above, and still have spare down time in camp every day we out hunting.

quote:

Here we go, Americans are expected to pay tips
Just the way the world is...

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Here we go, Americans are expected to pay tips
Just the way the world is...

That is because Americans started the concept.

The concept of tipping/paying for better service has long been practiced in America. Many people lay blame at the feet of the restaurant/night club/casino industry. The reality is some folks figured out they good and would get preferential service in such places by greasing palms. Whether it was slipping someone a $50. or $100. to get a table without having made a reservation, or to have a waiter/waitress hovering around them all night, knowing they will get a big tip out of the extra attention.

As a guide I have been on all sides of the issue. Tips should be based on the service provided, and by who.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Zimbabwe Wildlife Conservation:
In our camps staff are paid to do a job. And are paid above average wages, a tip is a gift of appreciation not a "right" if you are not happy with your wages, find another job that pays you better. We also have fewer staff than most camps. And we multi task, the waiter doubles up as the tent cleaner, and he does the laundry and ironing. A good guy can do all the above, and still have spare down time in camp every day we out hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Actually you can all thank the bloody English and French for starting the regular practice of tipping clear back in the 1700's and perhaps earlier (traced clear back to the 1530's according to some). So, quit blaming the Americans and go after the damned English and French! You might even be able to drag the Italians in on this one! And, you may want to further investigate the Danes and the Germans as well!


"According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the meaning "give a small present of money" began around 1600, and the meaning "give a gratuity to" is first attested in 1706.[8] The noun in this sense is from 1755. The term in the sense of "to give a gratuity" first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning "to give; to hand, pass", which originated in the rogues' cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning "to strike or hit smartly but lightly" (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, "to tap") but this derivation is "very uncertain".[9] The word "tip" was first used as a verb in 1707 in George Farquhar's play The Beaux' Stratagem. Farquhar used the term after it had been "...used in criminal circles as a word meant to imply the unnecessary and gratuitous gifting of something somewhat taboo, like a joke, or a sure bet, or illicit money exchanges."[10]

The practice of tipping began in Tudor England.[11] "By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host’s servants. Soon afterwards, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments."[11]

The etymology for the synonym for tipping, "gratuity", dates back either to the 1520s, from "graciousness", from the French gratuité (14th century) or directly from Medieval Latin gratuitas, "free gift", probably from earlier Latin gratuitus, "free, freely given" . The meaning "money given for favor or services" is first attested in the 1530s.[8]

In some languages, the term translates to "drink money" or similar: for example pourboire in French, Trinkgeld in German, and drikkepenge in Danish. This comes from a custom of inviting a servant to drink a glass in honour of the guest, and paying for it, in order for the guests to show generosity among each other. The term bibalia in Latin was recorded in 1372." [Taken from Wikipedia on Tipping]

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Actually you can all thank the bloody English and French for starting the regular practice of tipping clear back in the 1700's and perhaps earlier (traced clear back to the 1530's according to some). So, quit blaming the Americans and go after the damned English and French! You might even be able to drag the Italians in on this one! And, you may want to further investigate the Danes and the Germans as well!


"According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the meaning "give a small present of money" began around 1600, and the meaning "give a gratuity to" is first attested in 1706.[8] The noun in this sense is from 1755. The term in the sense of "to give a gratuity" first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning "to give; to hand, pass", which originated in the rogues' cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning "to strike or hit smartly but lightly" (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, "to tap") but this derivation is "very uncertain".[9] The word "tip" was first used as a verb in 1707 in George Farquhar's play The Beaux' Stratagem. Farquhar used the term after it had been "...used in criminal circles as a word meant to imply the unnecessary and gratuitous gifting of something somewhat taboo, like a joke, or a sure bet, or illicit money exchanges."[10]

The practice of tipping began in Tudor England.[11] "By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host’s servants. Soon afterwards, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments."[11]

The etymology for the synonym for tipping, "gratuity", dates back either to the 1520s, from "graciousness", from the French gratuité (14th century) or directly from Medieval Latin gratuitas, "free gift", probably from earlier Latin gratuitus, "free, freely given" . The meaning "money given for favor or services" is first attested in the 1530s.[8]

In some languages, the term translates to "drink money" or similar: for example pourboire in French, Trinkgeld in German, and drikkepenge in Danish. This comes from a custom of inviting a servant to drink a glass in honour of the guest, and paying for it, in order for the guests to show generosity among each other. The term bibalia in Latin was recorded in 1372." [Taken from Wikipedia on Tipping]

quote:

Let's get rid of tipping in the Safari Industry once and for all. Let's even the playing field for everyone across the world so there is no disparity with Americans vs. Europeans, etc., or anyone else for that matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I'm in the service industry and I'm not tipped for my services as a lawyer. Should I be? If not, why? What's the difference? Should my staff be tipped for a job well done by my clients? We are not all CEO's, Bankers, Chairmen of the Board, but all Americans seem to be viewed by the rest of the world as being rich and able to generously tip. Let's get rid of tipping in the Safari Industry once and for all. Let's even the playing field for everyone across the world so there is no disparity with Americans vs. Europeans, etc., or anyone else for that matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I'm in the service industry and I'm not tipped for my services as a lawyer. Should I be? If not, why? What's the difference? Should my staff be tipped for a job well done by my clients? We are not all CEO's, Bankers, Chairmen of the Board, but all Americans seem to be viewed by the rest of the world as being rich and able to generously tip. Let's get rid of tipping in the Safari Industry once and for all. Let's even the playing field for everyone across the world so there is no disparity with Americans vs. Europeans, etc., or anyone else for that matter.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I'm in the service industry and I'm not tipped for my services as a lawyer. Should I be? If not, why? What's the difference? Should my staff be tipped for a job well done by my clients? We are not all CEO's, Bankers, Chairmen of the Board, but all Americans seem to be viewed by the rest of the world as being rich and able to generously tip. Let's get rid of tipping in the Safari Industry once and for all. Let's even the playing field for everyone across the world so there is no disparity with Americans vs. Europeans, etc., or anyone else for that matter.

Okay. So lead by example. On your next trip declare right up front at the outset of the safari to the entire safari team, that you have no intention of tipping. Please report back.