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Conservation Force is collecting funds on Stu''s behalf and remitting the funds to him. | |||
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Todd, You now make 2 who have made this statement, I asked Mike to clarify, he has not. I am now asking you, could you point me in the right direction that confirms your above statement? | |||
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Brad, I have to leave for work in less than an hour and I'm facing a 6 hour drive to get there. I don't have time right now to look it up, but depending on work requirements today, I'll try to this evening or perhaps tomorrow. If you have a link back to the original thread on all of this, it should be contained in those posts. I will respond but I'm just rushed for time today. | |||
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Understood, and no hurry. Below is a link to the thread Martin's post I have gone through it fairly thproughly and see nothing establishing "factually" that what Martin posted was incorrect. In fact, I would encourage others to browse through the thread reading only Martin & Tims posts, I think they paint a fairly clear picture. | |||
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Here Tim appears worried:
I am happy evertything worked out for Tim. | |||
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I have not communicated with Brendan but I have spoken with his father via phone and email several times. His father sends a very nice letter when you contribute. Brendan is an incredible guy. He even likes to hunt; I told his dad when he is ready go hunting again to let me know. | |||
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Brad: I have not looked to verify. I seem to recall that Tim made a statement that the amounts referenced were not correct. Beyond that, I do not recall. | |||
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Valid point. My point is that when someone messes up another s life he should accept responsibility and if financial aid is what it takes he should do so to the full extent he is able. If that includes his "life savings" so be it. That is what responsibility is. But an even more important point is that we do not know for sure what Tim has, or has not, done. He may, or may not, be even able to say what he has or has not done because of legal advice he has been given or even a stipulation from an insurance company. Quite frankly I am not sure it is any of our business. Though it would be nice to know if Stu's needs have been satisfied so we know whether are donations are still needed. I will be donating to the Conversation Fund; if someone can post on how they can be contacted. Is this thru SCI? I am sure they can use any and all funds they receive to help Stu and/or someone else in need. | |||
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I agree with what you are saying. Conservation Force can be contacted at : www.conservationforce.org (504)837-1233 | |||
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GREAT POST!!!! I carry liability insurance becasue things happen in life that are out of my control. Hence the term blanket policy. Suppose someone falls off a ladder working at my house? Since you are apparently sanctified in all areas of your life I assume you have no such concerns. My post was related to the finacial difficulties facing both parties. It WAS NOT related to the incident itself. To imply that such insurance some how lowers my standards for firearm safety or makes one a boob. Well You just sound foolish. Best Jeff | |||
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Absolutely correct Saeed! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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He did, that does not make it the case. Martin stated that he was there on behalf of his membership, and his information had come first hand from Stu, just because Tim refuted it, does not make it "fact". This is my point, Martin is compelled to address this situation and it is "hearsay", Tim says he gave more than $1k and this discredits competely what Martin said (to some). I disagree, Tim has shown the depth of his charachter since the beginning of this tragedy, just because he "says so", holds no weight with me. And, I am shocked the people it does hold weight with. | |||
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Just a heads up, I don't know if you are aware that 66c out of every dollar donated to to the Wounded warrior project goes to admin, fund raising and programme costs, and the CEO takes home in the region of 300K per year. Not being an American, I have no dog in this fight, but as ex Military I baulk at my money being paid on admin when there are so many other organizations that pay directly to Vets in need or support them more substantially. PS. Sorry for the Hijack | |||
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BTW...Brad, That hunt was with Kambako Safaries (Stu's outfit). Don't you think they (Kambako) have a responsibility to help Stu as the employer? And...if so...didn't that hunt benefit Stu? If the outfit thought as some here that Tim is a POS and a liability...do you think they would have still done the hunt? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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He did, that does not make it the case. Martin stated that he was there on behalf of his membership, and his information had come first hand from Stu, just because Tim refuted it, does not make it "fact". This is my point, Martin is compelled to address this situation and it is "hearsay", Tim says he gave more than $1k and this discredits competely what Martin said (to some). I disagree, Tim has shown the depth of his charachter since the beginning of this tragedy, just because he "says so", holds no weight with me. And, I am shocked the people it does hold weight with.[/QUOTE I agree that is doesn't make it so. | |||
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1st, Kambako is not "Stu's outfit", Stu is either an employee or contract PH for them (I would assume the latter). 2nd, As far as them having "responsibility" to help Stu, maybe so. They did donate a complete Buffalo hunt with all proceeds going to Stu that ended up going for $15k (from what I heard). Here is a question, why didn't Tim or his company buy that hunt and then market and sell it to one of their "hunt club members", make a show out of it, I am sure with all of the glory whores around this place, someone would have paid top dollar to stand shoulder to shoulder with the mighty Tim, then donate the proceeds to Stu. That would have turned a $15k donation into a $30k-$45k donation. I floated this idea by Tim before, so perhaps they did. 3rd, As far as Kambako taking Tim as a client again, I see no reason to discount them because they took a paying hunter, whoever it is. Just like, I don't absolve Tim of anything he has or has not done because he found someone to take him lion hunting? Perhaps I do not understand your point? | |||
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I have been thinking about this. Hypothetically speaking, if Tim/Magnum have not done enough, I would think legal action would be taken. Perhaps it has been. I have no idea. | |||
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Ya, maybe so, although, I have not heard particularly stunning reports of Amicus Curiae Chilembe, Esq. who is the highest paid plaintiffs attorney in Bulawayo....  | |||
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Choice of venue would be interesting............. | |||
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just got back from Zim. spoke to my Zim PH. Tim was flying in as we few out to hunt an elephant with Nixon in SSG area. At frist he was coming a day early or that was what we were told, ended up we left just before he was to get there. i would have been very unconfortable with him in camp, not because of gun safty, but because I am of the mind that if you hurt someone you are responsible for that person. Accident or not. Really glad I was not there when he arrived. My PH said the Zim guys just don't think like we americans about sueing. It seems like a hand out to them. I suggested that Tim would have ins. and Stu should sue to get his medical bills paid and get some income from lost wages. I bet him one thing, I bet him Tim had spoken to an attorney already even if Stu had not. I have made a donation to Stu. I hate it for him. He will likely never again be whole again, while Tim continues to persue all the things in life he loves. Lion, ele and SA trips are expensive. I hope he is giving Stu at least 10% of what these trips cost... NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Thanks for the link for "Conservation Force"! Now is a the time for all of us to quit this bickering and put our money were our mouths/keyboards are! Contribute and/or shut up! Shane | |||
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Just a little reminder of what Stu is up to for those carrying on with there lives.... This was posted by Frik Muller, back in July, to me it tells the story of a man doing what he must to provide for his family...
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I don't think Stu will have any standing to sue Tim for a tort claim in US courts. Might have to get very creative but unlikely any US court will allow Stu to claim tort damages from Tim. Tim and his employers got to thank his/their lucky stars this gun incident/accident took place in Moz and not the US, Canada or Australia or any place with rule of law. Independent of possible criminal actions there would close to 100% possibility of civil litigation. I am really surprised that Smith & Wesson who owns Thompson is letting Tim use, in a product endorsement sense, a highly modified rifle that they have not modified or that they do not sell. If a Alaskan guide had his shoulder blown up with a modified Icon 458 that is being promoted by Thompson/SWHC spokesperson - I bet the main party being sued would not be Tim or magnum hunt club or some TV production company or booking agency but SWHC - the one with the deep pockets. Also in every safari I have been to there is a contractual clause where they assume no liability as hunting is a dangerous activity. If you get shot or injured on safari in Africa as a client I would assume you will have zero recovery. Maybe best case you can sue your US based booking agent. I always work under the assumption that all my African hunting is a self insurance activity. I don't expect any damages for accidents or injury from my PH. Therefore, choose your ph and outfitter very careful. I don't think suing anyone in Africa is practical anyway. My fear in Africa is always what happens if one gets entangled in the legal system. A accidental shooting could land one in a zim or moz jail and that would be as scary as any buffalo charge till hopefully the US consulate comes and rescues you. Tim got to be glad he never got entangled in the moz legal system and can go back hunt lion within a year in Moz. Tough spot for Stu to be in - disabled PH with no income in Africa. | |||
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Mike: I agree . Magnum appears to do a lot of business in Moz. Given that and the location of the shooting, I would be surprised if this was not considered if Stu's bills are not being paid. | |||
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Brad, This was my post from that thread where I think the dollar figure Martin quoted is incorrect. At the point where he stated Tim had given a total of $1,000 TO DATE, Martin was quoting a total of $2,500 had been sent to Stu. He did not account for the additional $38,000. Whether or not that $1,000 of the $2,500 amount being from Tim is an accurate statement, I don't know. I was told Tim left quite a bit more than that with Stu prior to his leaving for the States. I have no way of knowing for sure if that is the case. Martin says one thing and Tim says another. Martin says Stu told him one thing and Tim says Stu told him another as well, concerning the initial funds provided for his treatment. That is the reason I asked if Stu had come here and told us in his own words as to what has transpired. http://forums.accuratereloadin...931076281#9931076281 You and I will not agree on this. That's fair enough. Personally, I'm going to attempt to help Stu by contributing instead of crucifying Tim. Tim says he has helped far in excess of what Martin reported. I have no reason not to believe him. Martin made a statement that to me seems inaccurate. Interestingly enough, Martin, in his initial post, states that Stu is on a good medical plan which has helped considerably! He then makes the point that he needs help with paying the daily living expenses (ie making up for lost work). So is the issue taking care of Stu's medical bills or replacing his salary, or both? If about paying his salary, for how long? Until he can get back on his feet with another source of income or for the rest of his days? BTW, I fully realize the limitations of "other" sources of income for the Zim guys. Just asking the question.
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You'd be in deep schittt I would think, especially after some bottom feeding plaintiff atty got wind of it. After posting what I posted originally, and reading and thinking about this unfortunate situation, I'm leaning the way 505 is. No, I have no proof, but from where I sit It smells bad in TH's camp. I know I personally would handle it much differently. | |||
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So 75k/year and 100/150 day in tips for let's say 170 day guiding adds up to 100k for the period that's open to hunting..really some insurance company must be interested in starting a ph/guiding insurance ?? No ? Just in Zim are several hundred guides/phs. To be uninsured in this line if business must be a bad way to go for client, outfitters and phs.. Anyway I came to think of my friend Russell Caldecott and his accident I can be misinformed or remembering it wrong but was he not out guiding clients that ended up he loosing his legs. Anyway there are accidents like Anthony, Owain, Greef and many more that never reaches AR's gossip column that probably needed more help, with an insurance either from client, outfitter or by themselves could had helped a lot | |||
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Not really. Workers comp is the exclusive remedy in most states. | |||
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If you go by that line of reasoning...then...it is Kambako that has the liability for Stu...at least for his medical bills and such. As for my scenario...engagement in equine activities with an equine professional is an assumed risk and the equine professional cannont be held liable as the person assumes the risk when agreeing to work with horses. Our workman's comp would cover the medical expenses. My point is that I don't see Stu's situation as much different. He had a dangerous job. He assumed the risk of doing that job. The point of failure here is that Kambako does not carry the equivalent insurance to Workman's comp on its PH's and Stu, knowing they did not carry such, did not get a policy of his own. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Damn I just think I agreed with Lane for the first time since I joined  | |||
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I would say that it is probably about both as Tim Herald acknowledged in his first post that Stu's insurance had denied the claims.
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A man would be a right fool betting that Herald & Co. have not consulted some legal eagles, to see what the possible ramifications are concerning Mr.Heralds untimely firearm discharge,that inflicted grievous bodily harm.
Saeed, You call it simply an accident, Herald also conveniently refers to it as just an accident. so all is sweet-hunky-dory, cause Zim folks dont 'sue' like Americans, correct? When you are privi to knowledge that Mr.Herald has adopted the 'Zim' attitude rather than the 'American' attitude, and has not consulted lawyers to help protect himself,...please, do let us all know. | |||
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Texas allows one to opt out of workman's comps. If you can insure your commercial activity/operations outside of workman's comp you don't need to be in government scheme. That is great about Texas - bad thing is outside of workman's comp you will be subject to other common law legal remedies. May not exactly want an East Texas plaintiff's attorney on your back. In Zim or Moz or most places in Africa one could only get insurance for PH via some form of cooperative. Anyone here really think that in Uncle's Bob Zimbabwe - the PH are going to create a mutual to insure themselves. Maybe the 51% black owners will do that cause it the right thing to do. They will also create a defined benefit pension plan to go along. We can argue that African hunting companies and hunting countries should have also have US workman comp systems. But you cannot pick and choose a US workman's comp system and ignore a US tort liability system that comes hand in hand. As I have said earlier - Tim and Magnum Hunt should be glad the incident/accident happen in Africa not the US. Stu and any other PH is Zim/MOZ take the risk to work in a dangerous occupation. What happened to Stu could happen to any other PH. I have asked a few PHs about getting shot by accident and they shrug and say it is a cost of business. No one asks anyone going to Africa to take any competency test. All you need is a checkbook and you can be the next great hunter. This hunting liability is a two way street. If you get injured killed or maimed in Africa - don't expect much financial compensation. Pick your PH and outfitter carefully. Same for your charter flight operator. The financial aspect of the hunting business makes that PHs hunt with whoever has the checkbook. | |||
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if i get injured by an animal, that's OK. i get injured( shot ) by someone careless, that's not OK. and i highly doubt it would be a PH doing the shooting. i seem to recall my Daddy telling me repeatedly to get my finger OFF the trigger, safety on the gun and muzzle pointed AWAY from whatever was not the target until the moment i was ready to shoot something.... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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You know if one leaves ones car on a steep driveway,to go to a mailbox - without properly putting the hparkbrake on, and it rolls away becoming a big slow moving heavy projectile, and it ends up running over ones own[or someone elses] cat or child,great-grandmother or pool-cleaner, its not negligence on ones behalf causing death or grievous bodily harm ....because it was just an accident.  | |||
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Are you actually saying that Tim shot Stu on purpose? If not, which I am sure you are not, can you call it but an accident? | |||
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Lets put it this way, The bullet hiting Stu Taylor was an un-intentional consequence, following/as a result of, a persons actions that were careless and negligent whilst handling a loaded firearm. Lack of safety is not an accidental thing, it is due to personal carelessness-lack of awareness-lack of discipline. | |||
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