accident? no. an accident is something you have no control over( a meteor hits you, somebody runs a red light and bashes your car, etc.). unintentional? yes. that's something that you do have control over but didn't mean to have occur. this would not have occurred( unless the rifle was at fault) had Tim's finger not pulled the trigger- of course it was unintentional but it wasn't an accident. all of this is neither here nor there. what is being done to make amends is what matters......

Can someone please tell me how much of the donated money that go through SCI Conservation Force actually is paid out to whoever it is donated to?

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
... of course it was unintentional but it wasn't an accident.
all of this is neither here nor there. what is being done to make amends is what matters......

Lets not forget that how a person views/perceives their own actions
can very much effect how obligated they may feel to help or compensate.

and when perceptions vary to much between parties, and they cannot come to ammicable agreement
it may require the law, a courtroom and judge, to help resolve the matter for them.

lets see;

A person could argue that it was not their fault, they didnt mean to injure the other person,
they just tripped over and the gun went oFF, by accident.

Another could argue; that particular persons choice/decision to haphazardly walk backwards
with finger on/near trigger on a loaded firearm,in known close proximity to other people,
was a careless,unsafe,inconsiderate and negligent series of choices or actions
that contributed to the firearm being wrongfully discharged and someone being shot.

http://www.charitynavigator.or...id=8553#.UjfFwUuIqyM

sci in general

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Can someone please tell me how much of the donated money that go through SCI Conservation Force actually is paid out to whoever it is donated to?

SCI and Conservation Force are 2 TOTALLY separate organizations with no overlap. SCI supports CF with donations, IIRC, but CF is it's own free- standing organization.

Lane Easter -

quote:

My point is that I don't see Stu's situation as much different. He had a dangerous job. He assumed the risk of doing that job.

In wild Africa a PH's job is about guns, dangerous game, tropical diseases, civil unrest etc etc Our incomes do not relate to the job and we do it because we are passionate about the game. We make enough sacrifices to keep the sport alive.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
... of course it was unintentional but it wasn't an accident.
all of this is neither here nor there. what is being done to make amends is what matters......

Lets not forget that how a person views/perceives their own actions
can very much effect how obligated they may feel to help or compensate.

and when perceptions vary to much between parties, and they cannot come to ammicable agreement
it may require the law, a courtroom and judge, to help resolve the matter for them.

lets see;

A person could argue that it was not their fault, they didnt mean to injure the other person,
they just tripped over and the gun went oFF, by accident.

Another could argue; that particular persons choice/decision to haphazardly walk backwards
with finger on/near trigger on a loaded firearm,in known close proximity to other people,
was a careless,unsafe,inconsiderate and negligent series of choices or actions
that contributed to the firearm being wrongfully discharged and someone being shot.

WOW!

Aren't you reaching a bit with that?

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Can someone please tell me how much of the donated money that go through SCI Conservation Force actually is paid out to whoever it is donated to?

SCI and Conservation Force are 2 TOTALLY separate organizations with no overlap. SCI supports CF with donations, IIRC, but CF is it's own free- standing organization.

Thank you.

Does anyone know how much of the money donated through Conservation Force actually makes it to the person donated to?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
In wild Africa a PH's job is about guns, dangerous game, tropical diseases, civil unrest etc etc Our incomes do not relate to the job and we do it because we are passionate about the game. We make enough sacrifices to keep the sport alive.

Well said

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
... of course it was unintentional but it wasn't an accident.
all of this is neither here nor there. what is being done to make amends is what matters......

Lets not forget that how a person views/perceives their own actions
can very much effect how obligated they may feel to help or compensate.

and when perceptions vary to much between parties, and they cannot come to ammicable agreement
it may require the law, a courtroom and judge, to help resolve the matter for them.

lets see;

A person could argue that it was not their fault, they didnt mean to injure the other person,
they just tripped over and the gun went oFF, by accident.

Another could argue; that particular persons choice/decision to haphazardly walk backwards
with finger on/near trigger on a loaded firearm,in known close proximity to other people,
was a careless,unsafe,inconsiderate and negligent series of choices or actions
that contributed to the firearm being wrongfully discharged and someone being shot.

WOW!

Aren't you reaching a bit with that?

Saeed,

to some people it may seem that way, to others it may not.

Just like not everybody has adopted Mr.Heralds simplistic version/personal interpretation of events,
nor are they in any way obligated to.

I wonder what any fair,rational, impartial minded [non-liability dodging motivated] advising attorneys for Herald & Co.
would realistically perceive the situation to be.

I made this post earlier:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Lack of safety is not an accidental thing,
it is due to personal carelessness-lack of awareness-lack of discipline.

Saeed,
IF you dont agree with that, Id would appreciate if you could explain why.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
In wild Africa a PH's job is about guns, dangerous game, tropical diseases, civil unrest etc etc Our incomes do not relate to the job and we do it because we are passionate about the game. We make enough sacrifices to keep the sport alive.

Can we find comfort in the fact that Mr.Herald is still hunting in Africa
and thus keeping the sport alive, by helping provide a lively-hood for those passionate PHs
that are still able-bodied and actively providing their services in the hunting fields.

note: thats just one way of perceiving things, not necessarily the way I, or some others,
may perceive it...

All of this talk of accidents reminds me of a sign I see on nearly every jobsite and entrance to chemical plants and refineries: "Safety is no accident". I wonder if Stu or the people who actually witnessed this occurance think it was an "accident". Trax mentioned in the beginning of this post a couple of incidences that showed a pattern of these type "accidents" with Tim Herald, anyone know anything about that?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Lane Easter -

quote:

My point is that I don't see Stu's situation as much different. He had a dangerous job. He assumed the risk of doing that job.

In wild Africa a PH's job is about guns, dangerous game, tropical diseases, civil unrest etc etc Our incomes do not relate to the job and we do it because we are passionate about the game. We make enough sacrifices to keep the sport alive.

Andrew Baldry,
You can pull that "we sacrifice for Africa BS" on some people...but don't try to pull it on me...as I know better.

You do it because it affords you the lifestyle you enjoy at a means you can accept...at least until something bad happens.

If you are looking for some sympathy for your "sacrifices"...you will have to look to another.

You get up everyday knowing what the consequences can be and choose to proceed. If you don't like how you have set up yourself and your family in case of an accident...CHANGE IT...it is your responsibility...no one else's.

With that said...I am all for good men getting together and helping Stu. That is what good men do when they see a brother in need. But...with that said...Stu should have done better to provide for hisself in case of such an accident.

What I vehemently disagree with is all of the disparagement of Tim. As long as the world has been going on...bad things have been happening...more are going to happen tomorrow. As the old saying goes...2 bad events {1) being Stu being shot and 2) the disparagement of Tim} don't add together to sum up a good one.

The Mantra should be: "help Stu if you are of the means to do so and let God sort out the rest."

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
All of this talk of accidents reminds me of a sign I see on nearly every jobsite and entrance to chemical plants and refineries: "Safety is no accident". I wonder if Stu or the people who actually witnessed this occurance think it was an "accident". Trax mentioned in the beginning of this post a couple of incidences that showed a pattern of these type "accidents" with Tim Herald, anyone know anything about that?

I see the same thing. I said a while ago if AR readers expressed this "accidents will happen" attitude working for DuPont, IP, P66, etc, they would be fired in a week.

A friend of mine lost his job as a VP due to two fatalities that were absolutely not his fault. But fault is not the same as responsibility, and he was responsible. Nobody ever said life was fair.

IMO the issue is as much Tim's lack of sensitivity as anything else. His own pace of hunting hasn't been affected (gee, seems like Boddington isn't letting a stupid little BK affect his either). Like I said a million times, he had options to provide more for Stu, but he chose not to try, instead choosing to pad his own hunting resume. He has managed his image very poorly throughout this.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
All of this talk of accidents reminds me of a sign I see on nearly every jobsite and entrance to chemical plants and refineries: "Safety is no accident". I wonder if Stu or the people who actually witnessed this occurance think it was an "accident". Trax mentioned in the beginning of this post a couple of incidences that showed a pattern of these type "accidents" with Tim Herald, anyone know anything about that?

I see the same thing. I said a while ago if AR readers expressed this "accidents will happen" attitude working for DuPont, IP, P66, etc, they would be fired in a week.

A friend of mine lost his job as a VP due to two fatalities that were absolutely not his fault. But fault is not the same as responsibility, and he was responsible. Nobody ever said life was fair.

IMO the issue is as much Tim's lack of sensitivity as anything else. His own pace of hunting hasn't been affected (gee, seems like Boddington isn't letting a stupid little BK affect his either). Like I said a million times, he had options to provide more for Stu, but he chose not to try, instead choosing to pad his own hunting resume. He has managed his image very poorly throughout this.

How do you know how much Tim has provided to Stu?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
All of this talk of accidents reminds me of a sign I see on nearly every jobsite and entrance to chemical plants and refineries: "Safety is no accident". I wonder if Stu or the people who actually witnessed this occurance think it was an "accident". Trax mentioned in the beginning of this post a couple of incidences that showed a pattern of these type "accidents" with Tim Herald, anyone know anything about that?

I see the same thing. I said a while ago if AR readers expressed this "accidents will happen" attitude working for DuPont, IP, P66, etc, they would be fired in a week.

A friend of mine lost his job as a VP due to two fatalities that were absolutely not his fault. But fault is not the same as responsibility, and he was responsible. Nobody ever said life was fair.

IMO the issue is as much Tim's lack of sensitivity as anything else. His own pace of hunting hasn't been affected (gee, seems like Boddington isn't letting a stupid little BK affect his either). Like I said a million times, he had options to provide more for Stu, but he chose not to try, instead choosing to pad his own hunting resume. He has managed his image very poorly throughout this.

How do you know how much Tim has provided to Stu?

I do not. I do know he asked us to contribute to a fund for Stu and then went moose hunting in the Yukon or Alaska a few months later.

I do know he said in his first post when Stu got better he was going to finish the lion hunt with him. I guess a year was too long to wait.

I do know I suggested he auction off some of his hunts and film the winner, then giving the funds to Stu.

If Tim contributed more to Stu than he has spent on hunting (either paid for by him or his sponsors) then my opinion will change.

Like I said, he hasn't managed this very well, as evidenced by the amount of criticism this incident has generated.

You may notice I have never criticized the incident where Boddington's daughter shot a tracker. Why not? Because Boddington's daughter was an adult and CB isn't responsible for his daughter actions, only his own, which lately are pretty disappointing.

I guess it depends on how you define responsibility. Mine is different than yours.

I also know I haven't read the WSJ yet today or had my coffee, so see ya later.

quote:

I do know he asked us to contribute to a fund for Stu and then went moose hunting in the Yukon or Alaska a few months later.

I do know he said in his first post when Stu got better he was going to finish the lion hunt with him. I guess a year was too long to wait.

I do know I suggested he auction off some of his hunts and film the winner, then giving the funds to Stu.

Don't forget the taking the whole family hunting in SA, the elephant hunt, and the new trophy room (all essential to the continuation of his career, no doubt)

I know he has auctioned some hunts, and the proceeds were for Stu.

If he stops working, how is he going to earn a living and may be pay Stu?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I know he has auctioned some hunts, and the proceeds were for Stu.

If he stops working, how is he going to earn a living and may be pay Stu?

From what I can tell, he chose to auction off a turkey hunt but go on a lion hunt himself.

As I said, you don't have to hunt in Africa to be a writer; in fact, most have not. The most famous writer of African hunting recently filed for bankruptcy; that filing gives a value of his communications company at $1. So all those books and DVDs are essentially worthless, right? I mean, if writing about Africa is so lucrative, Tim should have no problem paying all of Stu's bills. But apparently it isn't that lucrative, and Tim chooses to hunt there simply because he wants to, not because he has to.

I am not saying he should give up his living. All I am saying is he has not cast himself in a good light throughout this whole debacle, whether it is posting about a new trophy room, taking the fam to Africa, going on a lion hunt that must have cost huge bucks, etc. Like bankers taking huge bonuses during the GFC, they may have felt as if they were entitled, but ignoring the public perception wasn't very smart.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I know he has auctioned some hunts, and the proceeds were for Stu.

If he stops working, how is he going to earn a living and may be pay Stu?

Saeed, save your breath (or more accurately your fingertips). This has turned into a vendetta by some who do not let their lack of information impact their strident opinions. As you point out, none of us has any idea what Tim has or has not done. And Lane and others have raised some excellent points on personal responsibility on the part of all concerned, the outfitter, Stu and Tim. That all falls on deaf ears. For a while it seemed like the group bent on tearing Tim down was content to just kibbutz back and forth between themselves. My suggestion is, let them.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I know he has auctioned some hunts, and the proceeds were for Stu.

If he stops working, how is he going to earn a living and may be pay Stu?

Saeed, save your breath (or more accurately your fingertips). This has turned into a vendetta by some who do not let their lack of information impact their strident opinions. As you point out, none of us has any idea what Tim has or has not done. And Lane and others have raised some excellent points on personal responsibility on the part of all concerned, the outfitter, Stu and Tim. That all falls on deaf ears. For a while it seemed like the group bent on tearing Tim down was content to just kibbutz back and forth between themselves. My suggestion is, let them.

You are certainly correct in that we have all formed our own opinions and lacking anything new, not much will change them.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I know he has auctioned some hunts, and the proceeds were for Stu.

If he stops working, how is he going to earn a living and may be pay Stu?

Saeed, save your breath (or more accurately your fingertips). This has turned into a vendetta by some who do not let their lack of information impact their strident opinions. As you point out, none of us has any idea what Tim has or has not done. And Lane and others have raised some excellent points on personal responsibility on the part of all concerned, the outfitter, Stu and Tim. That all falls on deaf ears. For a while it seemed like the group bent on tearing Tim down was content to just kibbutz back and forth between themselves. My suggestion is, let them.

Mike,

The common denominator here is that (as you have stated) we do not know and our thoughts are indeed conjecture.

I sort of agree but surely the AR family requires some sort of clarity regarding Mr. Taylor's situation? I feel a timely update is in order.

Screw insurance and if I feel Tim has not done or contributed enough then my precious double rifle will be posted on the Classifieds.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

If I have a an employee holding a horse in my hospital and that horse just loses it for some reason, becomes unruly, rears up, paws my employee in the head, and the employee gets permanent brain damage...who is liable/responsible for that employee's medical bills and livelyhood??? Me??? The horses owner??? or Whom???

You'd be in deep schittt I would think, especially after some bottom feeding plaintiff atty got wind of it.

After posting what I posted originally, and reading and thinking about this unfortunate situation, I'm leaning the way 505 is. No, I have no proof, but from where I sit It smells bad in TH's camp. I know I personally would handle it much differently.

Not really. Workers comp is the exclusive remedy in most states.

Negative in Texas, which is where we both live....it's optional. We have bottom feeding atty's also.

This discussion is circular. Nothing is being accomplished as nothing new is added in terms of credible evidence.

I would like to point out a few things as follows:

1- The turkeys hunt proceeds went entirely to Stu. The problem with auctioning off an African hunt is that Magnum is NOT the outfitter. I presume they are paying for all of these hunts. If that is the case, only the profits would accrue to Stu's benefit. How many are willing to pay more than fair market value for a hunt? My guess is not many. While this sounds good, I think the reality is that these would not generate as much for Stu as one would think initially.

2- Like him or not, Tim has been though a traumatic experience. His thought process about this entire matter may be skewed.

I have seen total lack of logical behavior many times in my life by those impacted by far less serious incidents than what Tim experienced.

I am going to call or e mail Conservation Force to see if we can find out how much was raised. Unless we know what Tim has actually done, all of these opinions are pure speculation. Some do not seen to be bother in the least by this. Make no mistake, my last statement should not be viewed as an endorsement of Tim's actions. I don't know what he did or did not do. Neither does anyone here.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

If I have a an employee holding a horse in my hospital and that horse just loses it for some reason, becomes unruly, rears up, paws my employee in the head, and the employee gets permanent brain damage...who is liable/responsible for that employee's medical bills and livelyhood??? Me??? The horses owner??? or Whom???

You'd be in deep schittt I would think, especially after some bottom feeding plaintiff atty got wind of it.

After posting what I posted originally, and reading and thinking about this unfortunate situation, I'm leaning the way 505 is. No, I have no proof, but from where I sit It smells bad in TH's camp. I know I personally would handle it much differently.

Not really. Workers comp is the exclusive remedy in most states.

Negative in Texas, which is where we both live....it's optional. We have bottom feeding atty's also.

Notice that I said MOST states. I was thinking of TX.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

If I have a an employee holding a horse in my hospital and that horse just loses it for some reason, becomes unruly, rears up, paws my employee in the head, and the employee gets permanent brain damage...who is liable/responsible for that employee's medical bills and livelyhood??? Me??? The horses owner??? or Whom???

You'd be in deep schittt I would think, especially after some bottom feeding plaintiff atty got wind of it.

After posting what I posted originally, and reading and thinking about this unfortunate situation, I'm leaning the way 505 is. No, I have no proof, but from where I sit It smells bad in TH's camp. I know I personally would handle it much differently.

Not really. Workers comp is the exclusive remedy in most states[/QUOTE]

Negative in Texas, which is where we both live....it's optional. We have bottom feeding atty's also.[/QUOTE] Notice that I said MOST states. I was thinking of TX.[/QUOTE]

Then your answer in bold is irreleveant to his question, which is my point. You are right though, as this discussion is going around in wide circles. I do know one thing though.....when something is a priority to somebody, then something gets done, there is action taken, period. If something is not a priority to someone, then..............? TH's priorities seem to be elsewhere.

Somebody panics, flips off the safety, keeps panicking, tries running away backwards, keeps panicking then hits the trigger shooting someone else in the back and our society requires us to discuss insurance coverage?

Three lessons here for me:

1. I don't want to be a PH, not ever.

2. No game is dangerous compared to a man with a gun.

2. Our society is officially, suboptimal. Maybe not even that good.

Check Please!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

... This has turned into a vendetta by some who do not let their lack of information impact their strident opinions...

...As you point out, none of us has any idea what Tim has or has not done...

regarding what Mr.Herald has done, somethings we do know:

- He rapidly issued a personal public statement on the internet[6th Aug] just two days after the terrible shooting incident.

- He released edited commercial video footage of the incident.

All this apparently,to help inform & educate the public/help prevent a rumour mill.

So why not also the same personal willing attitude & effort to provide tranparency-free-flow of information,
regarding all efforts he is making to assist Stu Taylor?.......Why the turn-around in attitude?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

2- Like him or not, Tim has been though a traumatic experience. His thought process about this entire matter may be skewed.

I have seen total lack of logical behavior many times in my life by those impacted by far less serious incidents than what Tim experienced.

IF his though processes and ability to reason/use logic are skewed or badly/adversely effected,

Should he then be back out in the field with a firearm,around people and hunting DG? ,..

Seriously, IF one is genuinely fit,willing and capable for that,after what happened to Stu Taylor,
then why not effectively for other tasks & responsibilities?

quote:

...none of us has any idea what Tim has or has not done...

If TH is enjoying the negative publicity he is gaining from the incident for lack of information as to how he has personally contributed to the welfare of the affected individual, he (TH) is on the right road.

Seeing none of us know exactly what ST has received in terms of financial contribution to alleviate the hardships he is now faced with from the incident, it might be worthwhile for either ST or someone very close to him, OZhunter for example, to disclose this information.

From what we have learned so far, from others who could be considered relatively close to ST, is that the contributions received so far are a bloody joke!

Let's cut the crap about personal, umbrella, corporate and any other insurance coverage which in this case is simply a means to worm out of one's moral responsibilities.

If you have one, fine but don't imply that everyone has to have one to cover their asses because of the remote possibility that through a third party's negligence you might inadvertently get shot!
The fact remains, with or without insurance, the perpetrator of the injury is culpable for the damage caused or does that give a person negligent in his ways of firearm handling an open license to go about his ways because he has insurance coverage?

quote:

I want to start a Stuart Taylor Relief Fund as soon as possible, but I do not quite know how to go about it at this point, as I will not be home for a week.
Please pray for Stu and his family. We are all sure he will make a quick recovery, but obviously this is a very serious situation. Please keep Stu in prayers.
I know for a fact that that prayers will and do help as much as anything.
Hunt Hard….Tim

outside contributor relief fund ASAP?...fair enough.
Why no mention that one is also in the process of organising to having ones major assets valued ASAP,
should you soon need[or feel compelled by ones own fruition] to sell them.
..and When people introduce the idea of 'prayers' into situations like this,
it sounds so much like a politicians distraction ploy -image marketing tactic- smoke & mirrors, type speech.

IF Mr.Herald can confirm that he first consulted a priest & property valuer - and not an attorney,
upon his return to the US,...Id be a little more believing that he has some sincerity.
just one persons perception of things...

There are a number of members here who have very kindly contributed money directly to Stu.

There are a number of members here who are in the process of setting up an organization for the specific purpose of supporting those unfortunate enough to fall into what had happened to Stu.

I understand the process is quite a lengthy one, due to red tape.

Another aspect is that we are totally in the dark of developments as far as Stu is concerned.

It would really be nice to hear what his current situation is.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

Let's cut the crap about personal, umbrella, corporate and any other insurance coverage which in this case is simply a means to worm out of one's moral responsibilities.

If you have one, fine but don't imply that everyone has to have one to cover their asses because of the remote possibility that through a third party's negligence you might inadvertently get shot!

Fujo,
If you don't assume the responsibility to take care of yourself...don't whine to others to care for you.

Of course every PH should have a plan for what they will do should they become disabled.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

...none of us has any idea what Tim has or has not done...

If TH is enjoying the negative publicity he is gaining from the incident for lack of information as to how he has personally contributed to the welfare of the affected individual, he (TH) is on the right road.

Fujo & Others - I don't think in this particular case/thread Tim Herald is intentionally avoiding anyone, rather he is out of the country and I believe he has been since about the time this thread was started.

Gentlemen - Nothing more than some FYI, that's all.

I have not contributed to Stu. I am waiting for Larry Shores to get his qroup up and running. This will give me assurance of distribution and help Larry with a very noble cause.

On the flip side if I were in TH.shoes I am pretty sure my hunting would be over. I would really have a hard time living with what I had wrought on another human. I am my own harshest critic and I am not saying this is a healthy approach. That said I would fall all over myself to make it right. If I were the target of a thread like this, it would be like pouring acid on me. Until the facts are known...well it would be nice to know more about the help received.

Jeff

quote:

Of course every PH should have a plan for what they will do should they become disabled.

No doubt, this is the act of a man with vision. However, it has NOTHING to do with the responsibility of the person who disables him. I.E. Stu not planning for his disability (speculation) does not aleviate Tim Herald of his responsibility for shooting him (fact).

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Of course every PH should have a plan for what they will do should they become disabled.

No doubt, this is the act of a man with vision. However, it has NOTHING to do with the responsibility of the person who disables him. I.E. Stu not planning for his disability (speculation) does not aleviate Tim Herald of his responsibility for shooting him (fact).

Brad,

I don't necessarily disagree with the above statement. But as a bystander...why don't you focus your efforts in the more productive ways of helping Stu vs. "speculating" on the situation betweens Tim and Stu???

Tearing Tim down actually does very little to help Stu...which I see as the "main event".

In my experience...men are either going to do the right thing or not and trying to coerce or shame one into doing the right thing seldom has any positive effect. And I am not saying Tim has been right or wrong as I simply DO NOT know...al beit I have a very good friend who is good friends with Stu and lives in Bulawayo whom would probably tell me.

I think the old adage that 2 wrongs don't make a right...applies here!

Just my 2 cents...FWIW.

Gentlemen:

The bottom line is that Stu needs help. I would urge you to contribute the him through Conservation Force.

The not for profit we have formed is coming. However, dealing with the IRS is not very fast. Our first letter was signed by Lois Lerner, who is squarely in the middle of the IRS scandal. Who knows what the scandal will do to the time frame.

I urge you all to PLEASE help Stu no matter what your thoughts are about Tim.

I have seen enough mention and noise here that a couple of things need to be said regarding our new 501.c.3 just so there is no confusion and you have confidence that something is coming. This is of course not the way we wanted to do a roll out but it seemed something was needed here.
As has been mentioned we are in the process of forming an organization to deal with injured PH’s. We are not ready to roll out yet due to a couple of items. I am not sure how many different posts this is being referred to but this one seems to have the most attention and I will not search out the other references so this is it.
First, final IRS approval is not in our hands and until then we cannot directly operate the organization under nonprofit status. There are things we can do however and we are working to get those items moving within IRS guidelines.
Second, I do not want to discuss names here (our org) as although we have domain names secured we want to announce the org when we have the website finalized. It will be a few more weeks and we can then do that.
A little history in that many of you will remember when John Greeff was attacked by a leopard in 2010 and I organized (with huge help from many of you) a fund raising effort. This was of course successful and I was asked to become part of the Something More Safaris (SMS) board to do more of the fundraising. Sometime later, Paul Reed then also joined the board and began to help me with fundraising and organizing around helping PH's. We then ran into complications with the mission of SMS and what we felt we needed to do so Paul and I began organizing a new 501.c.3 organization with the knowledge and concurrence of SMS. All of the paperwork and associated actions have been completed and submitted to the IRS for the new organization.
As Larry Shores said, bureaucracy is a pain in the ass but it is the way to get it done and we are in process of that. We then formed a board and asked Larry Shores to be our 3rd board member which he has agreed to do and also his accounting firm will validate our financial statements and tax returns so that all is clean and clear. I only mention these things so you can see we all had a foundation in fundraising for injured PH's with Paul and I on the former board and Larry of course being very instrumental in the support we gave to John Greeff. We all deeply cared and thus, this is what got us together.
At this point, we are trying to define how to function and do business as a "for profit" until we get our approval but we do not want to jeopardize our long term goals and mission by doing something in haste. Painful yes, because we could do things but this is our direction for the next few weeks. As soon as we have the opportuntiy Stu will certainly be one of our firt intentions to help.
FYI, a lot of regulars have been involved in some level of coaching and advising us on getting this established. We will have a "real" announcement for you hopefully in October with plans to have some face to face with key people at DSC and SCI. Notables on here other than the board members that are somewhat aware of our plans are Saeed, Dave Fulson, Buzz Charlton, Myles, Frik Muller, Ivan Carter, Martin Peters. We ask that you please be patient and I equally encourage you to do as Larry Shores said and that is to help in any way possible via direct contributions, Conservation Force, etc. We may have a way soon to help facilitate funding but that is unclear at this time.
Thanks and I only wrote this at this time to clear up references and let you know a tool and resource was coming. Saeed has agreed to allow us to use AR as an announcement platform which we will do. I apologize but I am not as profilic on AR as I have been and if you want to make sure you talk to me, Paul, or Larry, you can of course post which they may see you are welcome to PM me.
Thanks for reading,
Larry

Avery cool thing you guys are doing.

Jeff