Ww have just finished our 2012 AGM and it was very well attended. We discussed many issues and hopefully with the support, 2013 will be an exceptional year for Zimbabwe. One of the topics was hunting accidents and their increase.

Stu Taylor was present and he relayed his ordeal, as an association we were shocked to hear that to date, he has received $ 2500 ( two thousand five hundred dollars ) towards his expenses.

Stu was luckily on a decent medical aid which has helped considerably, he is however struggling as he has lost a whole season and 2013 does not look very rosy. His annual income is approximately $ 75k, he has no other source of income and has monthly expenses.

On behalf of the ZPHGA and in support of one of our members we would like to know exactly what Tim Herald has done to assist Stu with his recovery and if there is a plan to assist financially so that Stu can get back on his feet.

Thank you

Martin Pieters
Chairman
ZPHGA

This is a long overdue post, I hope Tim is about to inform us of his outreach to insure the well being of the man he shot along with the family that depends on him.

+1 505 gibbs.
Thank you for the update Martin. Im sure some of the AR guys, along with Tim, will chime in soon.jc

I made a contribution to the Fund Tim set up. I heard they got over $10,000.00 in donations. I spoke to a guy who hunted with Stu that gave $2500.00 towards the fund.
I also heard they auctioned off a buff hunt that got $14,000.00. the math is not adding up here. Maybee Stu should come on AR and it won't be a he said she said any longer.
Seems like Tim or his company would have some liability Ins. that would take care of this???

Karnak sez, at least another Sheephunter-length thread.... I am sure there is a reasonable explanation here

Martin,

You might wish to ask Stu to contact BibBbear.

He is currently hunting in Zimbabwe.

As I know he was trying to set up someting to help people who are in Stu's situation.

Also, if Stu comes here himself it might be helpful to get the story straight, and get some help as well. As I do know some members wanted to do something for him, but were not sure where the money should go.

Hi Guys,

Larry is not back in camp yet. Will bring it to his attention.

Rgds

Paul

Do PH's not have insurance themselves for this? I would think being in the business of hunting dangerous game you should have something in place.

I am meeting Stu on Monday I will ask him to come on AR but from his mouth, " to date he has been ' compensated' $ 2500"!!
This is not an argument, it is merely to make people aware that despite what has been posted here, Stu has lost a season and possibly a second season next year due to this accident.

Thanks Saeed, I will ask Stu to contact Larry. Perhaps Tim can let Stu know when the donated funds will make it to him so he can pay some of his bills.

Cheers

Mart

quote:

Originally posted by nube:
Do PH's not have insurance themselves for this? I would think being in the business of hunting dangerous game you should have something in place.

Irrelevant mate and there was a call for fund raising and funds were forwarded. Tim is by all accounts a stand up guy and I am sure there is a glitch in getting the finances to the final destination.

Look forward to seeing some light shed here. I am very sorry to hear that Mr. Taylor remains in such a bind.

Thanks for the update.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by nube:
Do PH's not have insurance themselves for this? I would think being in the business of hunting dangerous game you should have something in place.

Irrelevant mate and there was a call for fund raising and funds were forwarded. Tim is by all accounts a stand up guy and I am sure there is a glitch in getting the finances to the final destination.

nube Dont know how the P.H. insurance would work. I would have thought that the client's accident, liability insurance, should kick in. After all it was the client that caused the injury and as fairgame said Tim being a 'standup guy' will surely have that covered.
Here in the UK if i accidentally shoot someone,or damage their property, while pursuing my sport its my insurance that would have to cough up.If you dont carry insurance your toast (and a fool)who is about to become bankrupt.
Did'nt we cover this ground before?jc

I don't think African PHs can even get life or disability insurance or if they can it so expensive that most don't.

It has been close to 4 months since this happened and it is a shame that he is on his own, Tim was fairly quick on trying to get donations but surely has been tight lipped on Stu's status or what he or anyone has done, would like to hear from Tim on his efforts or am I out of line again

+1 raamw

I remember there being some SNAFUs with the paypall donations that initially started and money being returned I believe. I would have patience and wait for Stu and Tim before comments are rendered.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by GunsCore:
I don't think African PHs can even get life or disability insurance or if they can it so expensive that most don't.

"lloyds of london" expensive but then again I wonder what Stu's loss of income, surgery, rehab and hospital bills amount to? Not to mention next season if he can even hunt to full capacity.

Saeed, you are correct. I am in Zim. Martin, I had hoped to make the ball but am still hunting. Yes, we are working on a new org to help injured safari professionals and I admit to it taking too long but that is the US burocrats holding us back. We were working all through SMS and I was an active board member but SMS decided it was not the correct charter so we needed to start from scratch. I hope to have all ready in a couple of months. Just to be clear, we are not and have not been involved in any fundraising for Stu. This was all by Tim I assume. But given all that, i will see what we can do to move the ball faster and also engage the need of Stu. Please be patient. I did talk to Paul Fouche at length tonight and he alerted me to this thread. Martin, I plan to be in Harare Thursday night or Friday AM. Not sure where you will be or if we can talk but I will try to help. Your points are clear and valid.

Larry

Thank you Larry, good luck on your hunt, I will be with Mike Burke in Hwange next week so will not be able to meet in Harare, hope to see you in Dallas or Reno

Cheers

Guys...not sure about this, but I know there was a major snafu with the Paypal donations early, and from talking to Kambako, there were some large donations given. They also had to be returned because of paypal, issues. I do not know if those folks redonated or not.

Then we were able to donate through conservation force and a 501C3 which is still there. The first was made between Oct 11-13 as I got a note from Stu about it on Oct 14. Then a 2nd deposit they did for STu was over $7000. Below is an email to Stu's mom and Stu from Conservation Force about that. I also know a bunch of AR members contributed here.

I know there have been more since then, as I have continued to send $ this way, and have gotten emails from folks saying they did as well.

Also, Kambako raffled off a buff hunt that went for over $15k to go for Stu. I do not know if he has received that yet or not.

I know that Stu had insurance for medical and loss of wages, etc. - and those companies are denying him- which is terrible, obviously...and we did notify our insurance company about the accident...I do not know the status there as they deal directly with our company president, but it is in their system.

Me, Kambako and Stu's friends are doing all we can to try to raise donations, but people do not tell us how much they donate, or sometimes if they do donate. That is personal. COnservation Force is handling donations graciously, and they have told me they wait and do transfers when the money builds up a little to save on international fees, etc.

We are working on a TV show about this, and will have a segment at the end urging people to donate and informing them how to donate. That is the only reason that we are airing it. The Outdoor Channel and our sponsors have all committed to promoting it to try to get the maximum number of eyes to see it to try to raise as much money as possible. Hopefully hundreds of thousand of people will see it, and it will make a real difference.


If anyone has any constructive ideas of other ways we might raise money, please let us know.

I haven't said a lot lately as every time I do, the conversations always turn to something other than what we are talking about. I am doing all I can to raise money and to donate personally...


On Oct 19
Conservation Force
A FORCE FOR WILDLIFE, WILD PLACES AND OUR WAY OF LIFE

HI SUSAN & STU:

JUST A LITTLE UPDATE, WE DEPOSITED $ 7,025.00 TODAY BETWEEN CREDIT CARD AND PERSONAL CHECK DONATIONS. I WILL BE OUT OF THE COUNTRY NEXT WEEK. I WILL SEND THESE FUNDS AND HOPEFULLY MORE THAT HAVE COME IN WHEN I RETURN ON THE OCTOBER 30. PLEASE CONFIRM THAT YOU RECEIVED THE FIRST BANK WIRE TO YOUR ACCOUNT. THANKS.

SAFE TRAVELS!
BEST REGARDS,
CHRISSIE

Chrissie Jackson
Conservation Force Treasurer
3240 S. I-10 Service Road W Suite 200
Metairie, Louisiana 70001-6911
Telephone:504 837-1233
Fax: 504 837-1145
Email: cjackson@conservationforce.org
www.conservationforce.org

Tim,

Here is one idea: auction off the hunts you have lined up for your TV shows. You can still get a show in, and the money can go straight to Stu. I am sure some would love to see their hunts on TV. It might even improve the number of viewers if it was known those on the show bought the hunt to help Stu.

For that matter, other TV personalities could do the same.

Just a thought...

Do PH's/outfitters have disability or accidental insurance policies? Life insurance?

One would think that "insurance" is the intelligent option if you were to work in an environment surrounded by Dangerous Game and handling really Big Bore Rifles.

If a PH earns 75K per year, certainly he can afford insurance?



dale

Some professions are either uninsurable or if insurable the cost is prohibitive. Many insurance policy have thresholds like being out of work for "X" amount of days or months, obviously the longer the waiting period the lower the premium.
When I was in Alaska on a moose hunt the guide who operated 3 aircraft stated he was regulated as a commercial airline and was subject to quite a few regulations which raised his costs, he also stated the fact that being a bush pilot was a risky profession it would cost him an additional $50K to insure his aircraft for replacement and as a result his planes where not insured basically rolling the dice each time he took off

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Tim,

Here is one idea: auction off the hunts you have lined up for your TV shows. You can still get a show in, and the money can go straight to Stu. I am sure some would love to see their hunts on TV. It might even improve the number of viewers if it was known those on the show bought the hunt to help Stu.

For that matter, other TV personalities could do the same.

Just a thought...

That sounds like a very good idea to me.

Insurance contracts often contain what are known as "exclusions". Any items excluded are not covered. Remember the Punki incident? His employers insurance excluded accidents in other countries. The incident happened in another country. They didn't pay.

Given that Stu is from Zim & the incident happened in Moz, I have to wonder of any such exclusion existed. Exclusion are common in almost all insurance contracts. This could be the issue.

These things rarely move as fast as we would like here in the US. This was Africa. Nothing is going to happen fast.

Irrespective of insurance, other peoples donating of money, difficulties of other persons donations getting through returned or otherwise, isn't the basic liability and responsibility the person who fired the shot?

Insurance? Most policies don't cover hunting/shooting etc, and specifically exclude it.

$3000 does pretty insignificant compared to a TV shows budget.

Interesting that no one ever says the hunter that wounds a buffalo that ultimately hits, maims, kills a PH in a charge should compensate the PH / his heirs.

Both cases are the anthesis of what any client hunter wants to happen on safari, but both are worst case scenarios involving human error that can and do occur.

Just saying.

quote:

If anyone has any constructive ideas of other ways we might raise money, please let us know.

One thing that would have worked like a champ was you paying full price for the hunt Kambako donated to help their employee then you raffling it off to raise nearly twice the money. That means you would have paid $21,450 for the hunt and it auctioned for $14,000. That is $35,450 (almost 1/2 a years salary) that would have helped this man feed his family and get back on his feet.

Can't believe some of the posts here. Hunting fraternity? NOT.

Just got a message from Conservation Force that they are wiring $38,775.00 to Stu on Monday. I did find out that the $7000 in late October did not get wired as every time COnservation Force was about to wire money, another donation would come in and need to clear.So this is what has been raised since about October 14. Thanks to all who contributed.

I feel sorry for you Tim, not only for the accident but have to put up with this bullshit from fellow hunters.

Tim, I am guessing that the apologies will be slow in coming. Would also be interesting to know how much those that want to take pot shots contributed out of their own pockets. I am with Jim.

Thank you, Tim, for the update. That will help Stu and his family and ease the minds of some here on AR who have donated.

I am still a bit confused here, and I wish someone will enlighten us.

Stu says he has onl;y received $2,500. And I have no way of doubting his word.

Tim says $7,000 have already been sent. Again, I have no way of doubting his word.

Where is the actually money going to?
Could it be sitting in an account without Stu knowing about it?

This is NOT as unusual as it seems, as I have come across a few instances in the past where the bank actually sits on the money - earning them some interest, and they "forget" to notify whoever it was sent to.

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Ww have just finished our 2012 AGM ...

Stu Taylor was present and he relayed his ordeal, as an association we were shocked to hear that to date, he has received $ 2500 ( two thousand five hundred dollars ) towards his expenses.

... he has no other source of income and has monthly expenses.

On behalf of the ZPHGA and in support of one of our members we would like to know exactly what Tim Herald has done to assist Stu with his recovery and if there is a plan to assist financially so that Stu can get back on his feet.

Thank you

Martin Pieters
Chairman
ZPHGA

So Martin's post was 100% correct. Good to see his post finally got the $$$ donated into the actual recipients hands, or will hopefully ....

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
Just got a message from Conservation Force that they are wiring $38,775.00 to Stu on Monday. I did find out that the $7000 in late October did not get wired as every time COnservation Force was about to wire money, another donation would come in and need to clear.So this is what has been raised since about October 14. Thanks to all who contributed.

To all those that donated, thank you very much, I am sure that the $ 38 775 will go a long way to assisting Stu with his financial woes whilst awaiting the outcome of his next operation in January.



Cheers

Martin

quote:

the bank actually sits on the money - earning them some interest, and they "forget" to notify whoever it was sent to.

African banks are notoriously known for this but having a copy of the transfer details in hand produces miraculous effects!

"$2500 only", I hope not as my Rifle donation added up to $1000 just there. Would be good to get conformation that the funds arrived though..
"2013 season does not look very rosy". I hope this is not the case as I'd like to shoot some Ele with him in April..

Stu with his great Tracker Davy;


Stu with 43" Buff from Martin's area;

Having been at the AGM and talking directly to Stu , the reality is that his arm is in a very bad way , he can only lift it as far as his waist and has little to no power in it , lets all pray that the operations to follow will give him full use again ,ZPHGA wishes him a speedy recovery and hope to see him back in the field soon