Lane, that is crazy. I can shoot you unintentinally with no consequences. Wow. Definitely don't agree with that.

I think Lane's point is simply, anyone that is depending on the another person to keep them whole in the event of an accident is asking for trouble. It is the responsibility of each of us to make provision, in the amount and manner we feel appropriate, to protect us from the consequences, intentional or unintentional, of acts of others. If we elect to do nothing and effectively roll the dice that if we are the victim of an accident that the person causing the accident will be someone that has the means to make us whole, then we need to be prepared to live with the consequences if it turns out that the person does not have the means (or the inclination) to make the situation right. If I am in car accident with an uninsured motorist and get hurt and I do not carry insurance to protect myself, I think not only is the uninsured motorist at fault, but I am at fault too for not taking the steps to protect myself from unintended consequences.

quote:

Tim is such a great guy and just the fact he and the company put it on TV speaks for itself as him being class act.

Airing such an incident on TV is one thing,
living up to ones potential culpabilities after being careless & negligent
[with a firearm],causing greivous bodily harm is another matter altogether.
So whether Mr.Herald is a class act or not,...well, the 'jury' is till out on that one.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Everybody has the responsibility to take care of themselves. Nobody owes anybody anything over an accident in my book.

WTF?

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
Lane, that is crazy. I can shoot you unintentinally with no consequences. Wow. Definitely don't agree with that.

If we were out mutually agreeing to hunt together and you accidentally shot me in a purely accidental way...that is 100% correct...I would expect nothing from you monetarily. As far as consequences go...I am sure you would suffer plenty of those...in mental anguish.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I think Lane's point is simply, anyone that is depending on the another person to keep them whole in the event of an accident is asking for trouble. It is the responsibility of each of us to make provision, in the amount and manner we feel appropriate, to protect us from the consequences, intentional or unintentional, of acts of others. If we elect to do nothing and effectively roll the dice that if we are the victim of an accident that the person causing the accident will be someone that has the means to make us whole, then we need to be prepared to live with the consequences if it turns out that the person does not have the means (or the inclination) to make the situation right. If I am in car accident with an uninsured motorist and get hurt and I do not carry insurance to protect myself, I think not only is the uninsured motorist at fault, but I am at fault too for not taking the steps to protect myself from unintended consequences.

Precisely!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
If I am in car accident with an uninsured motorist and get hurt and I do not carry insurance to protect myself, I think not only is the uninsured motorist at fault, but I am at fault too for not taking the steps to protect myself from unintended consequences.

Lets say that it is a PHs fault[lack of responsibility] for not having insurance to cover himself,
and
Lets say that it is a clients fault[lack of responsibility] for having shot the PH.

yet some like to refer to it as not the clients fault, but just a mere 'accident'.
It certainly is not the PHs fault that the client shot him.
Remember, that whether a harmful act is intentional or un-intentional,
does not change the fact that it is still result of careless & negligent action involving a firearm.

People share the hunting fields together and people share the roads as well,

if someone drives into your rear-end they are at fault- if someone shoots you in the rear,they are at fault.

according to the law-book, it almost certain that they owe you something monetarily.

quote:

if someone shoots you in the rear,they are at fault.according to the law-book, it almost certain that they owe you something monetarily.

unless of course, it cuts into your $20k moose hunt money, or your $50k lion hunt money, or your .........

Gentlemen:

This can be argued til the cows come home. The fact is that we don't know all the fact and probably never will.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Gentlemen:

This can be argued til the cows come home. The fact is that we don't know all the fact and probably never will.

cows?...You mean like the purportedly 'illegal' Boddington Banteng Hunt? ...

This thread brings a question to mind. If the buffalo charged and the scenario was a little different who would be to blame? Say the buffalo charged, Stu was not able to stop it and it hit Tim causing grevious damage. Whose fault is that? Should Stu compensate Tim for medical expenses and lost work?

I'm sure someone will say that Tim's gun handling caused the accident so it is not a comparable situation. Couldn't someone say given the scenario I laid out that if Stu was a more competent shot Tim would not have been injured?

Before anyone tries to figuratively jump down my throat let me say that I'm not saying Stu is not a top notch PH just that this could have played out much differently on that day and what would the opinions have been then?

I'm still convinced given that none of us except Tim was there that we cannot say it should have turned out so and so if this and that had been done. We were not there and until we face a situation like that who knows what we would do.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
If the buffalo charged and the scenario was a little different who would be to blame? Say the buffalo charged, Stu was not able to stop it and it hit Tim causing grevious damage. Whose fault is that? Should Stu compensate Tim for medical expenses and lost work?

Buff have a mind and will of their own which Stu or Tim have no ultimate control over.
What Stu & Herald each have, is a mind & will of their own when handling a firearm.
Stu placing less than a perfect stopping shot on the intended target[DG] is not a negligent discharge.
A person mishandling a firearm and shooting an unintended target[person or property] is negligence on their behalf.

I agree with Mark, because I have been there ( charge ).
It is something no one has any idea less they happened to experience it. Adrenaline can block your brain and react at the same time and bingo, shit happens.
Less you get enough experience I these situations, you will never know.
As hunters, we don't get the experience very often and so when it happens, we are not always prepared.
The saying " what would you do if?" don't mean squat less you are there on the spot.
What would you do if Aliens landed in your back yard?
All you naysayers need to go back to your memories and you will find out everyone of us mishandled firearm one way or the other at least once in our lifetime and it could've turned out ugly for lot of us, but it didn't.
Lucky us.

Totally worthless to the victim if he is dead.

quote:

If I am in car accident with an uninsured motorist and get hurt and I do not carry insurance to protect myself, I think not only is the uninsured motorist at fault, but I am at fault too for not taking the steps to protect myself from unintended consequences.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I agree with Mark, because I have been there ( charge ).
It is something no one has any idea less they happened to experience it. Adrenaline can block your brain and react at the same time and bingo, shit happens.
Less you get enough experience I these situations, you will never know.
As hunters, we don't get the experience very often and so when it happens, we are not always prepared.

I am sure most reasonable people accept that DG can be intimidating & unpredictable,
and that an ametuer hunter can be really nervous and himself prove unpredictable & unreliable in some hunting situations.
I doubt anyone is really saying a client needs to be as proficient as the PH.

BUt if a client decides to be careless and negligent by:
1./ haphazardly running backwards
2./ with their finger on trigger
3./ before acquiring the target
4./ discharging without proper rifle sight view of the intended target
5./ causing grievous bodily harm to another nearby hunter,

.................then they are an adult and are responsible for their actions.

You previously refered to Mr.Herald as a class act for his decision to air the incident on TV.
That airing helps remind people of hunter-firearm safety awareness,
and may help make Mr Herald appear like an open honest guy,
But what does it really do for Stu Taylor?

I gather some people here would prefer to wait, and will decide whether Mr.Herald is a true class act
based on something much more substantial.... ie; what efforts mr.Herald ultimately makes to assist Stu Taylor.

quote:

Less you get enough experience I these situations, you will never know.

People have even much less experience of shooting people while hunting, than they do of being intimidated or charged by DG.
We already know how Mr.Herald reacted-performed in the DG charge,
People are now just waiting to see how well he performs while facing the potential culpabilities of his negligent discharge.

Trax:

Very true!

I might add that someone went to great lengths to point out Shootaway's fault for not having his flag safety in a safe position and "sweeping" his PHs back - that of course refers to Shootaway who is not a TV personality but a common "oaf" (to some, that is).

It therefore stands to reason to assume that the safety on Mr. Herald's rifle was NOT on safe either at the time of accidental or more realistically, negligent discharge.

That the situation was different to Shootaway's is irrelevant (though Shootaway was at fault) as the safety is supposed to be disengaged when the decision to shoot is taken and not before, as several individuals eagerly point out when flinging shit at someone else!

Mr. Herald should have either fired at the time of removing the safety (may not have had it on in the first place given the situation) or re-engaged the safety while doing his alleged "back-pedaling" stunt with his finger on the trigger!

"People are now just waiting to see how well he performs while facing the potential culpabilities of his negligent discharge".

Creating a fund and rallying the masses in contributing to make up for one's own negligence is BS !

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Creating a fund and rallying the masses in contributing to make up for one's own negligence is BS !

That would depend on whether you have little to your name to cover ones culpability,
or whether you have house and ranch you dont want to sell to cover ones culpability.

quote:

People are now just waiting to see how well he performs while facing the potential culpabilities of his negligent discharge.

Trax,
I respectfully disagree, those who are "waiting" aren't paying attention. He has posted on this very forum what he is doing. He is carrying on with life as usual, going on high dollar hunts with money (whether it is his or his companies) that should be used to repair the complete destruction that he caused and for some of those here (mainly who live outside of this forum), that is offensive (not that our sensibilities matter in this scenario). It is almost as offensive as those who are not calling this behaviour by its name.

quote:

Creating a fund and rallying the masses in contributing to make up for one's own negligence is BS !

Fujo,
I completely agree, and let's look at it a little closer. The first we heard about this fiasco was Tim tripping all over himself telling everyone how this was not a big deal. I.E.

quote:

originally written by Tim Herald:
It is with great regret that I make this hunt report, but I wanted to get this out firsthand and quickly before a rumor mill begins.

According to Tim, this was posted immediately after they put Stu on the airplane out of camp, considering that it was a fairly long report, it had to be written before Stu was even on his way to the hospital. Here's a question for you, who cares about getting a statement out "firsthand and quickly before a rumor mill begins"? Does Stu give 2 shits as he lies bleeding on a gurney with his entire future looking bleak? Hell no, the only person who cares is Tim Herald, and it isn't about Stu, it is about HIS reputation that may be tarnished. How about this Tim (as I hope you have the fortitude to read this), next time you permanently change another humans life, think about what they are going through.
This galling, self serving statement was followed by endless dribble reassuring everyone that this was not as bad as it looks, everything would be good in a short amount of time.

quote:

Originally written by Tim Herald:
Stu was even able to eat a small bit of dinner.

Our doctor here feels that besides a broken clavicle, Stu’s injuries are light tissue wound, but it was still a .458 tat went through him. The bullet passed through without breaking anything in the shoulder, he can work his left hand fine, and besides the pain from broken clavicle, he could raise his arm. We are so very thankful that it was a solid.

he was a calm trooper through it all. He is in good spirits, says that this will no way stop him from hunting, and he was giving a thumbs up when we closed the plane door on his departure.

We are all sure he will make a quick recovery, but obviously this is a very serious situation

He is going to one of the best hospitals there, so at least that has all gone well.

Guys, Stu is in Joburg, had his 1st surgery and is OK

Stu is good today. I guess his humerus was also broken by shock of bullet, not actual bullet. They want him to heal some and then go in and try to patch him up.

Stu is doing well. They have him in a good hospital and they are keeping his wound clean and letting him heal up a bit now. They are planning to do surgery next Tuesday to start fixing his shoulder.

I went to see Stu today, and he is doing very well, he is tough as nails. He promised he would be back in camp in October, if not hunting, he will be tending bar! Obviously good spirits, and we have already planned to continue our lion hunt August 1 next year. He will have a tough 2-3 weeks with his shoulder, but the prognosis is very good, and we expect a great recovery.

Talked to Stu this morning. He was in good spirits, and he has an appointment with his doctor on the 12th. He is hoping that things are healing well, and they may release him from the rehab clinic as early as late next week. Then home to Bulawayo to continue physical therapy. He is working out 3 times a day now.

Who was Tim re-assuring here, I'll tell you who, his fan club, and only for 1 person, himself. How has all of that everything is OK, this really wasn't so bad, Happy horseshit look now? I have had a belly full of watching these posts get misdirected back into the actual incident. The only part of this story that Tim could still do anything about is how he responded to it after it happened. The publishing of other peoples fund raising efforts, donating the proceeds from some turkey hunts, etc. prove to be bullshit when he was not even involved enough or in contact enough with Stu to know that he had only recieved $2500, Stu said he had only recieved $1000 from the man who shot him. This was all in November, 4 months after the incident. How did Tim not know this was going on? I'll tell you how, it wasn't worth a phone call (no matter what a bunch of blood sucking attorneys and insurance companies advised). Tim Herald has shown me through this ordeal (starting in the beginning), that he cares nothing about anyone elses life but his own. The rest of you spineless miscreants can slither around this forum hoping you make a famous buddy, or pave the road for you to behave the same way when you screw up, while a slim minority get brow beaten because they call this what it is. Which by the way, is not because of "judgement" (in my opinion), rather it is a public decree of what is moral. Which, is either the statement of a short sighted fool, or the commitment of a flawed, moral man who prays he will have the strength to do the same if for no reason other than consistancy with his previous stand. Thats right, I will take anything I can get when the going gets rough to push me in the moral direction, even shame. And you "miscreants" can quote me on that.

Good for you Brad. And I admire your guts and straight to the "meat of the issue". I for all intent and purpose left AR about a year and a half ago due to the ass kissing sycophantic behavior.

My own behavior was also less than becoming but, people can change and learn from their own errors.

This entire subject, Celebrity Sport hunters, fascinates me. It doesn't matter what they do, it's OK. Perhaps, just hoping to get a bit of stardust sprinkled upon them?

When Brittany Boddington shot the tracker, the reaction of the forum was the same, "I would stand side by side with Brittany"

I see the same exact reaction here.

I may not agree with Brad all the time, but I will ALWAYS KNOW WHERE I STAND WITH HIM. I will choose brutal honesty every time over tiptoeing around the truth to not say anything to lose favor of the forum's golden boy's.

Discuss......

Being argumentative and a contrarian does not make someone honest, well informed or ensure that they are speaking the truth. There is a saying, any fool can know, the point is to understand. I think there are some on the forum that believe their role in life is to take the opposite view of the majority regardless of the merits of the majority view. That does not strike me as being courageous or principled, just foolish.

Hi Mike,
Perhaps, But neither does running to the defense of a celebrity regardless of what the facts are.

Honestly, what would the jury have decided had I shot Stu? or George? Hmmmmm??? I assure a completely different outcome.

Not so sure about that. I think those that ascribe "celebrity" status to someone like Tim must have a pretty low threshold for hero worship. It would be a tragic accident regardless of who was carrying the gun. My point is simply how can some be judgmental regarding what Tim has or has not done, since none of us know what exactly he has done (good, bad or indifferent). That being the case, how can someone say, we have judged Tim and determined that he has done too little.

quote:

originally posted by Nganga:
Honestly, what would the jury have decided had I shot Stu? or George? Hmmmmm??? I assure a completely different outcome.

If your lawyer was Mike, you'd be screwed. Because if there is one thing I have learned it is that a jury can smell bullshit. And an "attorney" shaking his finger in someones face while he speculates about whether they are speculating, swearing with authority that his speculation is right and theirs is wrong, looks like what it is, bullshit.

quote:

originally posted by MJines
Not so sure about that. I think those that ascribe "celebrity" status to someone like Tim must have a pretty low threshold for hero worship. It would be a tragic accident regardless of who was carrying the gun. My point is simply how can some be judgmental regarding what Tim has or has not done, since none of us know what exactly he has done (good, bad or indifferent). That being the case, how can someone say, we have judged Tim and determined that he has done too little.

Mike

"How can someone be judgemental?" Do men not have the right to give their opinion on what someone did right in front of them? "Since none of us know what exactly he has done"? What are you talking about? Are you not watching the same train wreck I am watching? Is your memory so short that you think reality starts over with a new post? I just quoted the parties involved, Tim and Stu, how can you deny that Tim is concerned with his image more than the well being of the man he shot? How can you deny that 4 months after the incident, Tim Herald had no idea what was going on with the man he had shot or that he was being neglected? How can you deny that the President of the ZPHA had to come on this forum at the behest of his membership and shame Tim Herald into getting involved? How can you deny that the President of the ZPHA said that "To date Tim has put $1000 towards the donated funds"? Are you saying that was "speculation"? You don't think the president of the ZPHA got that from a source more reliable than yours? And you getting on this forum with your forked tongue saying "Fact is that other than relying on the indirect statements of others, which in part were previously determined to be wrong", is false. Please inform me what "indirect statements of others" has been "determined to be wrong", and by who?

quote:

originally quoted by MJines:
Being argumentative and a contrarian does not make someone honest, well informed or ensure that they are speaking the truth. There is a saying, any fool can know, the point is to understand. I think there are some on the forum that believe their role in life is to take the opposite view of the majority regardless of the merits of the majority view. That does not strike me as being courageous or principled, just foolish.

Mike

So, what does it make you if you ignore the facts, as you have?

It's been an interesting thread. I reviewed the incident as shown on the show again just to get back to what we do know. I don't know why it was edited the way it was, nor do I know what was left on the cutting room floor.

That being said, its my conclusion as to the video, taking into account the only evidence is edited video from Mr. Herald, is that he panicked, and suffered tunnel vision. He fired intentionally to protect himself from the buffalo without regard to others and Mr. Taylor happened to be in the path of the bullet. That seems to be the conclusion the show indicates, and since its Mr. Herald's edited video, I assume that's what he wanted me to think. I stand ready to be rebuked by the experts.

The question I can't answer is: if the conclusion is accurate, what are the probabilities of him experiencing this tunnel vision again? I imagine his future PHs will be giving this a lot of thought. I would not be comfortable with him behind me carrying a loaded gun on a hunt, but maybe everyone else would, especially the professionals.

I have been charged but have never lost attention to those around me, so I have no first hand experience to draw on, thank God. Admittedly it's only been by several Dwarf Buffalo, a single Brown Bear and a Single Bongo. I make know comment on what has been done for Mr. Taylor after he was shot by Mr. Herald.

Listening to 505 gibbs and Trax I am reminded of George Bernard Shaw's quote, "I learned long ago to never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

By all means continue to peddle your pablum to those who have an appetite for uninformed views. I think I will find better ways to waste my time.

quote:

Listening to 505 gibbs and Trax I am reminded of George Bernard Shaw's quote, "I learned long ago to never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

By all means continue to peddle your pablum to those who have an appetite for uninformed views. I think I will find better ways to waste my time.

Mike

...said mike after he left the pig pen

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Listening to 505 gibbs and Trax I am reminded of George Bernard Shaw's quote, "I learned long ago to never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

By all means continue to peddle your pablum to those who have an appetite for uninformed views. I think I will find better ways to waste my time.

Mike

...said mike after he left the pig pen

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
It's been an interesting thread. I reviewed the incident as shown on the show again just to get back to what we do know. I don't know why it was edited the way it was, nor do I know what was left on the cutting room floor.

That being said, its my conclusion as to the video, taking into account the only evidence is edited video from Mr. Herald, is that he panicked, and suffered tunnel vision. He fired intentionally to protect himself from the buffalo without regard to others and Mr. Taylor happened to be in the path of the bullet. That seems to be the conclusion the show indicates, and since its Mr. Herald's edited video, I assume that's what he wanted me to think. I stand ready to be rebuked by the experts.

The question I can't answer is: if the conclusion is accurate, what are the probabilities of him experiencing this tunnel vision again? I imagine his future PHs will be giving this a lot of thought. I would not be comfortable with him behind me carrying a loaded gun on a hunt, but maybe everyone else would, especially the professionals.

I have been charged but have never lost attention to those around me, so I have no first hand experience to draw on, thank God. Admittedly it's only been by several Dwarf Buffalo, a single Brown Bear and a Single Bongo. I make know comment on what has been done for Mr. Taylor after he was shot by Mr. Herald.

Interesting commentary. I'm surprised there are not more comments on the footage. Anyone else with an opinion who have watched it? I have not seen it myself.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

originally posted by Nganga:
Honestly, what would the jury have decided had I shot Stu? or George? Hmmmmm??? I assure a completely different outcome.

If your lawyer was Mike, you'd be screwed. Because if there is one thing I have learned it is that a jury can smell bullshit. And an "attorney" shaking his finger in someones face while he speculates about whether they are speculating, swearing with authority that his speculation is right and theirs is wrong, looks like what it is, bullshit.

quote:

originally posted by MJines
Not so sure about that. I think those that ascribe "celebrity" status to someone like Tim must have a pretty low threshold for hero worship. It would be a tragic accident regardless of who was carrying the gun. My point is simply how can some be judgmental regarding what Tim has or has not done, since none of us know what exactly he has done (good, bad or indifferent). That being the case, how can someone say, we have judged Tim and determined that he has done too little.

Mike

"How can someone be judgemental?" Do men not have the right to give their opinion on what someone did right in front of them? "Since none of us know what exactly he has done"? What are you talking about? Are you not watching the same train wreck I am watching? Is your memory so short that you think reality starts over with a new post? I just quoted the parties involved, Tim and Stu, how can you deny that Tim is concerned with his image more than the well being of the man he shot? How can you deny that 4 months after the incident, Tim Herald had no idea what was going on with the man he had shot or that he was being neglected? How can you deny that the President of the ZPHA had to come on this forum at the behest of his membership and shame Tim Herald into getting involved? How can you deny that the President of the ZPHA said that "To date Tim has put $1000 towards the donated funds"? Are you saying that was "speculation"? You don't think the president of the ZPHA got that from a source more reliable than yours? And you getting on this forum with your forked tongue saying "Fact is that other than relying on the indirect statements of others, which in part were previously determined to be wrong", is false. Please inform me what "indirect statements of others" has been "determined to be wrong", and by who?

quote:

originally quoted by MJines:
Being argumentative and a contrarian does not make someone honest, well informed or ensure that they are speaking the truth. There is a saying, any fool can know, the point is to understand. I think there are some on the forum that believe their role in life is to take the opposite view of the majority regardless of the merits of the majority view. That does not strike me as being courageous or principled, just foolish.

Mike

So, what does it make you if you ignore the facts, as you have?

Relax Brad, people have made up their minds about this incident, you're just muddying up the water with facts.

quote:

Originally posted by txlonghorn:
. . . you're just muddying up the water with facts.

Fact /fakt/ - n, a thing that is indisputably the case.

Speculation /spekyəˈlāSHən/ - n, the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

Oxford Dictionary

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by txlonghorn:
. . . you're just muddying up the water with facts.

Fact /fakt/ - n, a thing that is indisputably the case.

Speculation /spekyəˈlāSHən/ - n, the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

Oxford Dictionary

Fact: Tim herald shot his PH stu Taylor in the back
Fact: Martin Pieters had to come on AR to ask what is being done to help Stu four months later
Fact: four months after the incident Stu received a total of $2500 to help with the consequence of being shot.
Fact: Tim was too busy getting on with his life to check that all the donated money actually got to Stu

Speculation: What Tim has or has not done personally from a financial perspective to help Stu.

OK I will put couple more cents in just to get in trouble with few of you ( or most of you ).
Sounds like lots of us on this forum never had an accident or close call with arms, cars tools etc. ?
If you search your past Everyone of us had some of those calls.
Most of us got lucky and somehow we escaped serious injuries, few didn't. And for sure we know few people close to us that did come to accident or grievious injury.
That being said I will defend Tim, because I know him personally and also , because I've been in situations very similar in hunting and military. Adrenalin, actions, yelling, screaming... simply somewhat of a pandemonium and simply shit happens and doesn't have to be someone's fault.
Monetarily sounds like money is coming in and sounds like quite a bit got held in for whatever reason.
We have saying in Eastern Europe. " If you wanna run with wolves, you gotta howl with them "
Nobody will ever understand any dangerous situation less they were once in it.
I watched the show, read some of the Tim's writings and heard it from source that was right there and none of us can understand completely less we were there.
Sounds like some of us would wanna see Tim as a beggar on NYC street and that's not cool. I'm pretty positive even Stu wouldn't wanna see that.
Sometimes Shit happens and it is nobody's fault. How many of you had something jump at you from few feet away or bullets flying inches from your head? Reactions to those situations are incredibly unpredictable. Most of us will panic and do something we would otherwise never ever do under normal situations.
I look at this as glass half full and sounds like lot of you see it as glass half empty.
Stu lived to tell the story and so did Tim and rest of us will hopefully learn from that going to another Safari.
Search your soul and your memory in your past for any tricky situations you ever been in and then put your mind in it again and then you will see how you handled the situation then in split second in person and now in your mind under no stress.
" If I knew then what I know now " says it all.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF US ON OUR NEXT ADVENTURE AND SAFE TRAVEL AND RETURN HOME

Sincerely, Milan Plachy, Stevensville, MT

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
OK I will put couple more cents in just to get in trouble with few of you ( or most of you ).
Sounds like lots of us on this forum never had an accident or close call with arms, cars tools etc. ?
If you search your past Everyone of us had some of those calls.
Most of us got lucky and somehow we escaped serious injuries, few didn't. And for sure we know few people close to us that did come to accident or grievious injury.
That being said I will defend Tim, because I know him personally and also , because I've been in situations very similar in hunting and military. Adrenalin, actions, yelling, screaming... simply somewhat of a pandemonium and simply shit happens and doesn't have to be someone's fault.
Monetarily sounds like money is coming in and sounds like quite a bit got held in for whatever reason.
We have saying in Eastern Europe. " If you wanna run with wolves, you gotta howl with them "
Nobody will ever understand any dangerous situation less they were once in it.
I watched the show, read some of the Tim's writings and heard it from source that was right there and none of us can understand completely less we were there.
Sounds like some of us would wanna see Tim as a beggar on NYC street and that's not cool. I'm pretty positive even Stu wouldn't wanna see that.
Sometimes Shit happens and it is nobody's fault. How many of you had something jump at you from few feet away or bullets flying inches from your head? Reactions to those situations are incredibly unpredictable. Most of us will panic and do something we would otherwise never ever do under normal situations.
I look at this as glass half full and sounds like lot of you see it as glass half empty.
Stu lived to tell the story and so did Tim and rest of us will hopefully learn from that going to another Safari.
Search your soul and your memory in your past for any tricky situations you ever been in and then put your mind in it again and then you will see how you handled the situation then in split second in person and now in your mind under no stress.
" If I knew then what I know now " says it all.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF US ON OUR NEXT ADVENTURE AND SAFE TRAVEL AND RETURN HOME

Sincerely, Milan Plachy, Stevensville, MT

Honorable but not objective.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Speculation: What Tim has or has not done personally from a financial perspective to help Stu.

i give up. what has he done( other than to carry on with high dollar hunts)???

I have no f'ing idea, and neither does anybody else! That's the point. Why do some persist in being obtuse. In the absence of knowing, most want to take the expedient route and simply conclude he has done little to nothing -- let's grab a rope and find a tree. Okay, I give up, on what do they base that view? The opinion of Martin Pieters that was demonstrated to be wrong months ago? Other?

I am sick of arguing with those that cannot even try to be intellectually objective in looking at this, let them pick at what is left of Tim's bones and delight in trying to pull him down. That will really serve Stu well.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
OK I will put couple more cents in just to get in trouble with few of you ( or most of you ).
Sounds like lots of us on this forum never had an accident or close call with arms, cars tools etc. ?
If you search your past Everyone of us had some of those calls.
Most of us got lucky and somehow we escaped serious injuries, few didn't. And for sure we know few people close to us that did come to accident or grievious injury.
That being said I will defend Tim, because I know him personally and also , because I've been in situations very similar in hunting and military. Adrenalin, actions, yelling, screaming... simply somewhat of a pandemonium and simply shit happens and doesn't have to be someone's fault.
Monetarily sounds like money is coming in and sounds like quite a bit got held in for whatever reason.
We have saying in Eastern Europe. " If you wanna run with wolves, you gotta howl with them "
Nobody will ever understand any dangerous situation less they were once in it.
I watched the show, read some of the Tim's writings and heard it from source that was right there and none of us can understand completely less we were there.
Sounds like some of us would wanna see Tim as a beggar on NYC street and that's not cool. I'm pretty positive even Stu wouldn't wanna see that.
Sometimes Shit happens and it is nobody's fault. How many of you had something jump at you from few feet away or bullets flying inches from your head? Reactions to those situations are incredibly unpredictable. Most of us will panic and do something we would otherwise never ever do under normal situations.
I look at this as glass half full and sounds like lot of you see it as glass half empty.
Stu lived to tell the story and so did Tim and rest of us will hopefully learn from that going to another Safari.
Search your soul and your memory in your past for any tricky situations you ever been in and then put your mind in it again and then you will see how you handled the situation then in split second in person and now in your mind under no stress.
" If I knew then what I know now " says it all.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF US ON OUR NEXT ADVENTURE AND SAFE TRAVEL AND RETURN HOME

Sincerely, Milan Plachy, Stevensville, MT

Man is that a good post!!!

Everyone should follow the above advice and check the skeletons in the closet.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I have no f'ing idea, and neither does anybody else! That's the point. Why do some persist in being obtuse. In the absence of knowing, most want to take the expedient route and simply conclude he has done little to nothing -- let's grab a rope and find a tree. Okay, I give up, on what do they base that view? The opinion of Martin Pieters that was demonstrated to be wrong months ago? Other?

I am sick of arguing with those that cannot even try to be intellectually objective in looking at this, let them pick at what is left of Tim's bones and delight in trying to pull him down. That will really serve Stu well.

I would hope that Tim is doing all he can to compensate Stu for his loss.

As a lawyer, I am sure you understand that most sponsors, individuals. and insurance companies are not going to do everything in their power...until they are held to account in some form or fashion.

The shooting happened in Africa, there was no investigation. If this had happened in the US, I am sure you realize there would have been an inquiry into the circumstances. The rifle would have been checked to see if it functioned properly....that most likely will never happen now. I think Herald used a TC ICON which was, at some point, subject to a safety recall. Did Tim turn over the rifle for it to be independently reviewed for a safety problem?...maybe the rifle was the problem?...did it function properly?

Many questions...no real answers.....

Sad all the way around...

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i give up. what has he done( other than to carry on with high dollar hunts)???

response:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I have no f'ing idea, and neither does anybody else! That's the point.

So, if its all mere speculation as to whether TH has done enough or not,
Why have people posted saying that Mr.Herald is doing 'everything he can' to help Stu Taylor?
By what reliable source or authority, do they know that to be true?

Mr.Herald felt compelled to post his written account and share the[edited?]video of the incident,[apparently to help stop innacurrate rumour mill beginning]
but does not seem compelled to follow-up, by sharing the entirety of the efforts he is making to assist Stu Taylor.
Doing so would probably help keep the rumour mill hounds at bay, well at least to some degree.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Tim Herald has shown me through this ordeal (starting in the beginning), that he cares nothing about anyone elses life but his own.

It could appear that his efforts to expose the incident through his written account and aired video,
were more about trying to help preserve his own image & reputation in the public eye, than actually helping Stu.
However, people are free to perceive his methods-efforts differently, to the way others might.

Does anyone have digital copy of the show they can share?

Since funds were publicly raised for Stu - is there any accounting for the funds raised? Number of contributors, average size of contribution, total dollars raised, total dollars distributed? These are all question I ask before making any charitable contribution - what is dollars raised, what is dollars distributed and what is dollars spent on raising contributions.

Larry Shores and group is doing the absolute right thing in moving the fund raising/assistance of injured PH into a tax deductible structure.

One thing I am sure off is Stu getting shot by a 458 lott got the short end of the accident/incident/whatever people call it. A 458 lott on a human body - Stu's survival in itself is a miracle.

Another interesting read in my opinion and it is just my opinion, is that people who expect near perfection in the age determination of wild lions for hunting expect people to assume massive randomness is near everything else in life. If life in itself can be so random and best insurance is often self-insurance why can't hunting lions or more correctly any other scared objective be subject to policy that assumes non-randomness.

Mike

Obviously emotions run high on this subject.

Does Tim bear some responsibility in this matter? Obviously, to me at least, he does both legally and morally.

What has he done? NONE of us know . Some months ago when Martin posted about this matter, Tim said as I recall that what Martin said was not true. My read was that either there was some legal issue and/or Conservation Force was jerking around.

What is enough? If he sent 100% of his disposable income but that only covered 25% of Stu's bill, is that enough?

What would be a complished if Tim quit selling hunt, hosting hunts and/or appearing in TV shows ? His income would dwindle thus making him less able to help Martin. The fact is that Tim's hunts for a living. Now, if Tim was a recreational hunter like myself, it would be different.

Another serious question , which is really none of our business is the insurance carriers. Why haven't they paid . I have an educated GUESS considering that I work with insurance companies worldwide . My GUESS is as follows:

1- Tim's personal policy won't pay because he was on BUSINESS. I have yet to see a personal policy that will pay on business matters.

2- What about Magnum's policy? Really good question .
Obviously , the terms and conditions of each policy govern what the carrier will pay.

I have a theory. Perhaps Tim is NOT an employee of Magnum.
Perhaps he is an independent contractor or even has his own corporation. If this is the case ( and that is a big IF) I would bet my last dollar that Magnum's policy won't cover it.

3- What about Kambako? Who knows? Do they even have coverage ?

In the final analysis, in spite of all the hostility , I think most agree. Is Tim responsible ? Yes . Has he done enough? We have absolutely no idea.

Now, back to deer hunting. There has been a doe in front of me for too long.