Gentlemen:

I can't say what Tim did or did not do. However , I can give you insight into one area.

I will reveal that 3 of us have formed a not for profit designed to help people such as Stu who have been hurt in the course of their profession. The corporation is formed. The application is in with the IRS.

Now back to Tim. When Tim found out about this, he has offered to help any way he can to help the Relief Fund to raise money. He didn't have to do this. He volunteered.

Some of the comments are so far off base to be ridiculous . If Tim ain't making a living , he can't help.

Unfortunately this thread....... as with a couple at any given point in time on AR...... some of the posters seem to be high on estrogen instead of testosterone. Some of the boys need to get a life apparently........ the behind the computer screen jury are usually handing out verdicts based on sketchy or manufactured evidence.

This is a tragic occurrence. Those involved are doing the best they can and others are trying to assist. The nay sayers are a negative distraction and annoyance for those who are trying to get something done.

I could be that you need the life.

"Accidents" with firearms, explosives, automobiles and many other items carry the burden of unlimited liability. You can be totally innocent of malice but still be guilty of carelessness and negligence. If you cannot handle a firearm in the manner that a reasonable person would deem acceptable you probably need to hunt alone and out of rifle range of anything that might be damaged or injured by a gunshot.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
Unfortunately this thread....... as with a couple at any given point in time on AR...... some of the posters seem to be high on estrogen instead of testosterone. Some of the boys need to get a life apparently........ the behind the computer screen jury are usually handing out verdicts based on sketchy or manufactured evidence.

This is a tragic occurrence. Those involved are doing the best they can and others are trying to assist. The nay sayers are a negative distraction and annoyance for those who are trying to get something done.

quote:

.. the behind the computer screen jury are usually handing out verdicts based on sketchy or manufactured evidence.

I understand that Mr.Herald released his version of events concerning this incident with StuTaylor
to help avoid hearsay and rumour mongering.
[note;his version of events also conveniently refers to it as a simple accident]

If Mr.Herald himself also released what actual steps he is taking to assist StuTaylor,
then that would also help prevent much undesirable rumour mongering.

quote:

This is a tragic occurrence. Those involved are doing the best they can and others are trying to assist.

How has it been determined that Mr.Herald is doing the best he can?
Could well be true, or it could just be an unfounded rumour.
For all we know Mr.Herald could have a whole heap of assets, that if sold,
could easily cover StuTaylors expenses.
People have different understandings of what -'doing the best they can'- actually means.

In some cases it could mean 'doing the best they can to assist in every way possible'
- that does not require them to delve into their own major wealth/asset base.

So far, the claim that Mr.Herald is doing 'the best he can', has about as much validity
that what took place in the field was a mere 'accident' in the course of DG hunting.

quote:

DG hunts are such a rush and can be so exciting, that simply put there should be a lot more accidents and there are not and that tells me, majority of hunters are very safety conscious even in stressful situations.

I am more inclined to say that PHs and members of hunting parties,
are most fortunate not to have been shot,
despite all the times a loaded firearm is negligently pointed at someone.

This incident (not accident) occured on August 4, 2012. On November 29, 2012 Martin Pieters, the Chairman of the ZPHGA was compelled by his members to publicly ask the following question:

quote:

Ww have just finished our 2012 AGM and it was very well attended. We discussed many issues and hopefully with the support, 2013 will be an exceptional year for Zimbabwe. One of the topics was hunting accidents and their increase.

Stu Taylor was present and he relayed his ordeal, as an association we were shocked to hear that to date, he has received $ 2500 ( two thousand five hundred dollars ) towards his expenses.
Stu was luckily on a decent medical aid which has helped considerably, he is however struggling as he has lost a whole season and 2013 does not look very rosy. His annual income is approximately $ 75k, he has no other source of income and has monthly expenses.

On behalf of the ZPHGA and in support of one of our members we would like to know exactly what Tim Herald has done to assist Stu with his recovery and if there is a plan to assist financially so that Stu can get back on his feet.Thank you

Martin Pieters
Chairman
ZPHGA

This post led to the realization that the fund set up by Conversation Force had not released some $39k which was released possibly due to the reminder of Martins Thread.
Tim Herald did say the following:

quote:

I haven't said a lot lately as every time I do, the conversations always turn to something other than what we are talking about. I am doing all I can to raise money and to donate personally...

Then on December 1, 2012 Martin Pieters posted the following:

quote:

FYI
To date Tim has put $ 1000 towards the donated funds!

Regards

Martin

and then

quote:

Gentlemen, as chairman of ZPHGA, I get tasked with certain issues, ( some of these tasks are pretty demanding and I am often thrown into the public eye and I get personally attacked ), these are the beauties of being the one in the front line!
One of them was to bring the public on this forum up to speed as to where Stu stands. It has been several months and Stu is ' in the dark'
The figures I have quoted are from Stu Taylor himself, they are not fabricated in any way, I am sure Stu has no reason to lie to his friends on where he stands financially.
This is NOT a personal issue at all, more a drive by ZPHGA to stand by one of it's members when the time counts.

If this post does anything, it will perhaps start more constant dialogue between Tim and Su and hopefully between the two of them they will know where they stand.

Regards

Martin

This was followed by some of the larger contributors (of posts) on this forum raining down criticism on Martin for doing as his membership requested, he and everyone else who questioned Tim Herald was the problem. Tim Herald is the one who made a decision to live his life in the public eye, and now many want to condemn those that question his public behaviour. Everyone here has seen these public hunting personalities slither around soliciting free hunts and services on the promises that they can bring you all this business, which most the time never seems to materialize. Perhaps some of the local professionals (true professional hunters) could come on here and address that issue. Well Guess what guys, everything comes at a price and some pay more than others, Just ask Stu Taylor. People want to focus on the part of this tragedy that can be potentially explained away as "unavoidable" while conveniently ignoring the fact that how Tim responds after the fact is what determines if he is a man or a parasite. But for the Tim fans, maybe if you kiss up enough, he will sign your wifes tit at the next hunting show.

I believe that Tim posted that the amount reported was not correct. I guess that could mean it was too high or too low. I don't know.

I am not going to bash him nor praise him because we don't know the details of what transpired from a financial perspective. Some of what transpired may not be made public. For example, IF they were litigating with their insurance company for not paying, it might be counter productive to disclose here.

In the final analysis, it is difficult to make an informed opinion without all the facts. My guess is that we will never know all of the facts.

The 'slithering around' for free hunts of TV personalities covers a lot of folks, some of which might just take that as a blanket bitch slap which would be none too well received. Lets not be quite so global in our references without a working knowledge of what we are talking about. Sound about right?

I guess I should approach this logically and wait to hear directly from Mr. Taylor rather than just assume, "I know the facts because I heard from the shooter and several people like him, therefore he is telling the truth". Once I hear both sides than at least I will have a basis for my wild speculation.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Once I hear both sides than at least I will have a basis for my wild speculation.

Not having a basis has never stopped Jesus (aka Brad doer of no wrongs) in the past from wild speculation, annoyingly persistent picking, or comments in bad taste.

Brett

quote:

originally posted by Dave Fulson:
The 'slithering around' for free hunts of TV personalities covers a lot of folks

We agree 100%

quote:

some of which might just take that as a blanket bitch slap which would be none too well received

And therein lies one of many problems. You see Dave, I understand that there are some people that are on this forum who dare not offend or question some of the local "celebrities", or people who have access to them. Some PH's because they are scared that they would recieve bad publicity, or they harbour the misconception that these people actually have some power. Some clients because they spend too much time watching TV, worshipping or wishing they could live the lives of these "celebrities". Some clients because they are trying to climb the ranks in what they see as the "hunting social order". Some booking agents because they are scared that the world will see that they are the same as the one being questioned. Then there are those who don't care, they call a spade a spade and when someone is being chickenshit, they call it what it is. The latter typically get hammered by the former.

quote:

Lets not be quite so global in our references without a working knowledge of what we are talking about. Sound about right?

Dave Fulson

No, actually it doesn't sound right. It actually sounds like someone who has been complicit in this type behaviour worrying others see the same. If the shoe fits Dave, wear it, if not, move along.

I have just spent 12 days with Brad and we discussed a wide range of subjects including this one.

Brad's opinions were solid, religious and cast in good old fashioned morals. And whilst we did not agree on all subjects we felt that Tim had not done enough to help a man that he had disabled in life.

It would seem that some of the great names in hunting within Zimbabwe feel the same way?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
. . . we felt that Tim had not done enough to help a man that he had disabled in life.

What an amazingly asinine statement. Without even knowing what Tim has or has not done, how can you offer such a conclusion? Opinions are like . . . and they all stink . . . and this one reeks.

Your credibility as a PH just went way down in my estimation. Talk about off the cuff and without any substantial basis. That is just shameful.

No one knows what he has done or not done. I don't see how an opinion can be formed one way or another.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
. . . we felt that Tim had not done enough to help a man that he had disabled in life.

What an amazingly asinine statement. Without even knowing what Tim has or has not done, how can you offer such a conclusion? Opinions are like . . . and they all stink . . . and this one reeks.

Your credibility as a PH just went way down in my estimation. Talk about off the cuff and without any substantial basis. That is just shameful.

Do not really give a shit what you think.

Martins Pieters and Russ Broom are two of Zimbabwe's heavy weights and who are concerned enough to post on this site.

The common denominator is that we are PHs in Africa and when some client shoots my life away I want to know will happen to my wife and kids.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
. . . we felt that Tim had not done enough to help a man that he had disabled in life.

What an amazingly asinine statement. Without even knowing what Tim has or has not done, how can you offer such a conclusion? Opinions are like . . . and they all stink . . . and this one reeks.

Your credibility as a PH just went way down in my estimation. Talk about off the cuff and without any substantial basis. That is just shameful.

I must have missed the part where Fairgame stated the complete basis of his opinion or conclusion.

And really what does my opinion have to do with me being a PH?

Well I think some clients only want PHs who naturally agree with their client's brilliance or are complete suck ups. Me I want you to hunt as hard as I want and to be good at it.

Let us put it to Stu's countrymen and fellow PH's what they honestly feel?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Let us put it to Stu's countrymen and fellow PH's what they honestly feel?

Agree 100%

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
Not having a basis has never stopped Jesus (aka Brad doer of no wrongs) in the past from wild speculation, annoyingly persistent picking, or comments in bad taste. BrettDRSSLife Member SCILife Member NRA

Careful Brett, no doubt referring me to "Jesus" or even similar would be clearly breaking the 3rd commandment. Surely a jab at me is not worth eternal damnation.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 Gibbs:
Some clients because they are trying to climb the ranks in what they see as the "hunting social order".

Hey there AKSCI, maybe this one refers to you?

quote:

Originally posted by Fairgame:
The common denominator is that we are PHs in Africa and when some client shoots my life away I want to know will happen to my wife and kids.

I reckon that depends on who it is, perhaps PH's should be a little more choosy of who they hunt with? Tough when your trying to eek out a living though.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
No one knows what he has done or not done. I don't see how an opinion can be formed one way or another.

That is a most valid point...and people ideally should not prematurely judge[or condemn] Mr.Herald.

Mr.Herald was fine with sharing the details of the shooting incident in question,
in order, I gather, to maintain some level of transparency.

Q./ Why is he choosing not to also share the details of all efforts he is making to assist StuTaylor?

People would hate to discover that he has substantial wealth/assets at his disposal,
that he is simply choosing not to access.

I would like to know what Tim, the company, etc have done monetarily. I hold them to a higher standard. If they have not stepped up in a big way I would be disappointed. At this point it does not sound like anyone knows for sure and most likely will never know.

We would be nieve to assume that Herald & Co. have not made the effort to seek legal advice.

Law firms advising in their clients interests,
usually seek to protect their clients financial assets
& assist with the clients self-preservation as a whole,
no matter how culpable their client may really be.

quote:

Please keep Stu in prayers. I know for a fact that that prayers will and do help as much as anything.

Why is it that people find the need to pray for 'divine intervention' after they shoot someone,
and not before-in order to prevent any such thing happening?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
No one knows what he has done or not done. I don't see how an opinion can be formed one way or another.

+1

I have stayed out of all of this and will continue to do so because I do not know the facts and it would be wrong for me to jump to conclusions.

But with Fairgame's quote below I would address that I think this in a way is something everyone worries about. No matter how they pass whether it be work related, heart attack or getting hit by a bus crossing the street. So most people have life insurance and/or disability insurance to make sure their loved ones are taken care of or themselves due to a disability.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Fairgame:
The common denominator is that we are PHs in Africa and when some client shoots my life away I want to know will happen to my wife and kids.

quote:

Originally posted by David Culpepper:
I have stayed out of all of this and will continue to do so because I do not know the facts and it would be wrong for me to jump to conclusions.

But with Fairgame's quote below I would address that I think this in a way is something everyone worries about. No matter how they pass whether it be work related, heart attack or getting hit by a bus crossing the street. So most people have life insurance and/or disability insurance to make sure their loved ones are taken care of or themselves due to a disability.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Fairgame:
The common denominator is that we are PHs in Africa and when some client shoots my life away I want to know will happen to my wife and kids.

I believe insurance is prohibitively expensive for most PHs from which you might reasonably infer that it is deemed, by those who analyse risk for a living, that one should not be surprised when things go badly wrong.

Given that Stu and his family would appear to be suffering perhaps the blame issue should take a back seat to the help we might be able to give him?

quote:

Originally quoted by MJines:
What an amazingly asinine statement. Without even knowing what Tim has or has not done, how can you offer such a conclusion? Opinions are like . . . and they all stink . . . and this one reeks.

Your credibility as a PH just went way down in my estimation. Talk about off the cuff and without any substantial basis. That is just shameful.

Mike

Hey Mike,
What is more asinine, Fairgames statement or you ASSuming that you are privy to what Andrew actually does or does not know? Many here get lost and begin to believe that what is said here is the limits of those parties communications, big mistake. It is my understanding that you are an attorney? I hope you think things through a little more thoroughly for your clients.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Originally quoted by MJines:
What an amazingly asinine statement. Without even knowing what Tim has or has not done, how can you offer such a conclusion? Opinions are like . . . and they all stink . . . and this one reeks.

Your credibility as a PH just went way down in my estimation. Talk about off the cuff and without any substantial basis. That is just shameful.

Mike

Hey Mike,
What is more asinine, Fairgames statement or you ASSuming that you are privy to what Andrew actually does or does not know? Many here get lost and begin to believe that what is said here is the limits of those parties communications, big mistake. It is my understanding that you are an attorney? I hope you think things through a little more thoroughly for your clients.

From the standpoint of a PH who could envision himself smashed, laying in the dust while his life leaks away and the flies began to gather, I can see fairgame's point. Having shared a few fires and Mosi's together, I can assure you I personally give great credance to his comments and feelings on any given situation. I think we did disagree on red heads though. Maybe it was blonds. At any rate, I am quite sure that Tim is under strict instructions by legal counsel to not disclose a damn thing. We will never know the details.

What I would like to know is that Stu is doing okay financially and physically. Don't really care about the particulars of how he got there.

Oh and Bwana Fairgame is a damn fine PH.

Jeff

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Culpepper:
I have stayed out of all of this and will continue to do so because I do not know the facts and it would be wrong for me to jump to conclusions.

But with Fairgame's quote below I would address that I think this in a way is something everyone worries about. No matter how they pass whether it be work related, heart attack or getting hit by a bus crossing the street. So most people have life insurance and/or disability insurance to make sure their loved ones are taken care of or themselves due to a disability.

And most if not all production companies have liability insurance in case the show's host shoots the PH in the back. I suspect that if you ask a Zim PH who is in the field daily and who has significantly more personal interaction with their colleague who has been maimed for life and will have very limited use of his arm, they will say not enough has been done to make this incident anywhere close to right. This is a harshly different perspective than the one of the clients who are collecting a pension/dividend/disability check every month waiting to take their yearly trip to Africa saying that Stu is going to be ok, he's planning for next season already! Here is the reality. Going forward Stu Taylor is not going to be able to make a living doing what he was doing before this incident.

505
My post above was to advise that branding all TV types with the broad brush was offensive to me, as I have been told it was by others. Then you seem to call me out with "if the shoe fits' statement. If you have something to imply, state it now. If your shot was aimed elsewhere, you should say so. I, we work pretty damned hard to do it right. On top of that I have raised a hell of a lot of monies for PH and trackers injured in the line of duty. I am working on another fundraising effort that will eclipse anything currently in place to help our friends , like STU. More will appear on AR as the deal is finalized. Do not drag me into this fight, but if it is your intention to " make me wear a shoe of blame' of some kind, better let me know what I, our my outfit did. And, understand, some people formerly associated with my TV series you may be referring to are no longer in place. Trying to be fair, and ask you to do the same.

I would add to all this that after few incidents like this, PH"S in all Africa would have some kinda association/union that they would all contribute into retirement/disability fund like a lot of other dangerous professions.
Mistakes, accidents, incidents happen in all walks of life.
Blame game never helped anyone.
The only help comes from us, who are in this particular walk of life.
Anyone of you that somehow blames Tim as irresponsible, should double your contribution " Challenge " to Stu fund.
Rest of us oughtta do the same.
And for Pete's sake, we all blow a lotta money in Africa, so few coins will not take any skin of our noses.

I would like to know from those of you that saw the program that was aired does it show the actual shooting of Stu.

It does not.

quote:

Then you seem to call me out with "if the shoe fits' statement. If you have something to imply, state it now. If your shot was aimed elsewhere, you should say so.

And here we are again, "If the shoe fits, wear it, if not, move along". That statement wears both ways Dave, it is not an implication, it is advice, and worth what you paid for it.

It does not, so I will drop it there.

All I got to say to all this is...that in my book everyone is responsible for themselves and there immediately family.

If your job is dangerous and it worries you...get another job or get some kind of insurance.

I work on horses everyday and run the risk I will get permanently disabled...I have 2 aquaintances that have been.

I carry life insurance and disability on myself. It is very expensive for people in my line of work.

Everyday we are responsible for our own well being and that of our loved ones...no one else is.

I think it is great that we help those that are hurt...but NOBODY OWES anyone anything for being hurt in an accident.

Lane,
Tim is not an animal, and Stu Taylor was not an animal handler. Tim is a human being who discharged his weapon into another mans back. You say, "everyone is responsible for themselves", does this mean it is every man for himself? It would not seem you are comparing apples to apples here. Would you say the same if someone negligently ran a red light and killed you or someone you love (Heaven forbid)?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Originally quoted by MJines:
What an amazingly asinine statement. Without even knowing what Tim has or has not done, how can you offer such a conclusion? Opinions are like . . . and they all stink . . . and this one reeks.

Your credibility as a PH just went way down in my estimation. Talk about off the cuff and without any substantial basis. That is just shameful.

Mike

Hey Mike,
What is more asinine, Fairgames statement or you ASSuming that you are privy to what Andrew actually does or does not know? Many here get lost and begin to believe that what is said here is the limits of those parties communications, big mistake. It is my understanding that you are an attorney? I hope you think things through a little more thoroughly for your clients.

I actually feel pretty darn comfortable with my assumption. I am certain that if either you or Unfairgame had material information to share regarding what Tim had not done you would be happy to share it -- would probably trip all over yourself in your haste to share it -- in your effort to prove that you are the smartest guys in the room. Fact is that other than relying on the indirect statements of others, which in part were previously determined to be wrong, you have no information and simply want to try to foster some holier than thou image. It would be darn interesting to see what you would do in the same circumstance -- not what you say you would do, but what you would do. My guess is that your talk would outweigh your actions.

So I will stand by my assumption, Unfairgame offered an unsupported opinion with no substantial basis behind it which in my view is irresponsible.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Lane,
Tim is not an animal, and Stu Taylor was not an animal handler. Tim is a human being who discharged his weapon into another mans back. You say, "everyone is responsible for themselves", does this mean it is every man for himself? It would not seem you are comparing apples to apples here. Would you say the same if someone negligently ran a red light and killed you or someone you love (Heaven forbid)?

Brad,
Like it or not...DG hunting is dangerous. Accidents happen. If you are unwilling to assume the risk...don't go or do it for a living. I wear a pistol slug imbedded in my 3rd cervical vertebrae with a permanent dimple in my left cheek where it entered...so I know a little about being shot too.

In the situations PH's put themselves in daily...eventually (hopefully extremely rarely) somebody will get shot...unfortunately it is just like driving a car. Stu was not the first and will not be the last.


Everybody has the responsibility to take care of themselves. Nobody owes anybody anything over an accident in my book.

In a good and decent society...like the one we have here on AR...good men will always CHOOSE to help there brother in need. But it is not mandatory for anyone.

Is now a good time to point out that Tim may well be acting under legal advice that might possibly affect the ultimate outcome from insurance companies?