quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
Gentlemen i believe we must respect the experience of the guys who WORKED AS HUNTERS for years and years .Very few sportsmen can reach the experience of these men in a specific hunting area and species of their country .Steve Robinson is respected worlwide for his African experince .Perhaps he has something to teach ,and we have to listen .Just my humble opinion .

Amen. and Thank You!

Wow, 7 pages.

Jesus Christ, Steve is being attacked because he commented on his dislike of canned lion hunts and you want to crucify him here. He was a respected PH for many years and in my opinion doesn't deserve the shit thrown at him concerning this. Especially you check out some of the canned lion hunts and they charge by what the size of the mane of the lion. That's like order a steak by the ounce.

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:

Steve Robinson is respected worlwide for his African experince.

While I have no dog in this fight...I do know PH's who actually know Steve. "Respect" is not a descriptor they usually use however when asked about him.

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:

Steve Robinson is respected worlwide for his African experince.

While I have no dog in this fight...I do know PH's who actually know Steve. "Respect" is not a descriptor they usually use however when asked about him.

Wow, thanks for posting!!! For someone with "no dog in the fight", you sure help clarify this issue by alluding to descriptors used by anonymous sources.

I suppose if I made a living from selling canned hunts shoots, I'd say some rather uncomplimentary things about people who oppose such practices too.

I realize that there's a wide range of opinions about what are or aren't sporting practices, and certainly there are those who don't believe that any form of hunting should be allowed. That said, we're only kidding ourselves if we don't think setting that establishing some kind of standard is necessary. There is a difference between "hunting" and killing, and if we (collectively) can't recognize this then we've got some serious problems from within.

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:

Steve Robinson is respected worlwide for his African experince.

While I have no dog in this fight...I do know PH's who actually know Steve. "Respect" is not a descriptor they usually use however when asked about him.

And may I ask what is your qualifications to pass on this judgment?

At least Steve is using his own name, you on the other hand is hiding behind a screen name.

Do you really expect anyone to take whatever you say seriously?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:


You two really are a pair of mucking forons ... with your combined stupidity.



........ and if you have the intelligence to find them ....

I can't believe your denseness on this.... sadly, you pair of fucking Einstein's ....



Nice try on the ad hominem thing though.

Now I'm done!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I reckon I'm well ahead on points but here's another if you're as fed up with me quoting ad hominem as I am of having to quote it because you can't win any other way:

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
― Socrates

Never was a game to win for me. I simply do not want to see reasons for less hunters to want to post a hunt report.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:

Steve Robinson is respected worlwide for his African experince.

While I have no dog in this fight...I do know PH's who actually know Steve. "Respect" is not a descriptor they usually use however when asked about him.

And may I ask what is your qualifications to pass on this judgment?

At least Steve is using his own name, you on the other hand is hiding behind a screen name.

Do you really expect anyone to take whatever you say seriously?

Fair enough!

Let the PH's flock to his rescue!

Please Steve , it is useless , why are you replying these people ?
You are talking different subjects man , some are hunters and some not.
Why are you now loosing your time with extremely low IQ persons ? They will never understand what you are trying to tell them , not in a million years .

quote:

Originally posted by Paul C:
Jesus Christ, Steve is being attacked because he commented on his dislike of canned lion hunts and you want to crucify him here. He was a respected PH for many years and in my opinion doesn't deserve the shit thrown at him concerning this. Especially you check out some of the canned lion hunts and they charge by what the size of the mane of the lion. That's like order a steak by the ounce.

Steve took it upon himself to criticize another guy's hunt report. I guess you could say the OP stuck his neck out by posting a hunt report. He payed for it.

I guess you can also say that Steve stuck his neck out by posting in the OP's thread. Now he's paying for it.

If we're going to toot all of these freedom of speech horns and then use that to justify crapping in some else's punch bowl, then both threads are perfectly acceptable. If you live by the sword, you'll die by it.

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by Paul C:
Jesus Christ, Steve is being attacked because he commented on his dislike of canned lion hunts and you want to crucify him here. He was a respected PH for many years and in my opinion doesn't deserve the shit thrown at him concerning this. Especially you check out some of the canned lion hunts and they charge by what the size of the mane of the lion. That's like order a steak by the ounce.

Steve took it upon himself to criticize another guy's hunt report. I guess you could say the OP stuck his neck out by posting a hunt report. He payed for it.

I guess you can also say that Steve stuck his neck out by posting in the OP's thread. Now he's paying for it.

If we're going to toot all of these freedom of speech horns and then use that to justify crapping in some else's punch bowl, then both threads are perfectly acceptable. If you live by the sword, you'll die by it.

Isn't that the whole point of having a discussion?

Someone posts his hunt report, and others chime in.

And if one does something that he thinks is right, he can defend it.

The original poster was actually advertising - nothing wrong with that.

And Steve posted that not all that has been posted is what it seems at the surface.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by Paul C:
Jesus Christ, Steve is being attacked because he commented on his dislike of canned lion hunts and you want to crucify him here. He was a respected PH for many years and in my opinion doesn't deserve the shit thrown at him concerning this. Especially you check out some of the canned lion hunts and they charge by what the size of the mane of the lion. That's like order a steak by the ounce.

Steve took it upon himself to criticize another guy's hunt report. I guess you could say the OP stuck his neck out by posting a hunt report. He payed for it.

I guess you can also say that Steve stuck his neck out by posting in the OP's thread. Now he's paying for it.

If we're going to toot all of these freedom of speech horns and then use that to justify crapping in some else's punch bowl, then both threads are perfectly acceptable. If you live by the sword, you'll die by it.

Isn't that the whole point of having a discussion?

Someone posts his hunt report, and others chime in.

And if one does something that he thinks is right, he can defend it.

The original poster was actually advertising - nothing wrong with that.

And Steve posted that not all that has been posted is what it seems at the surface.

I get it, Saeed. There are no rules in Thunder Dome.

quote:

I get it, Saeed. There are no rules in Thunder Dome.

Exactly correct. Post hunt reports or anything else on this site at your own peril.

Saeed said it before. Hunters fighting and attacking hunters makes no sense. Anti's just love this stuff. You don't see them eating their own. And we wonder why they are so effective.

quote:

Originally posted by The Artistry of Wildlife:
Saeed said it before. Hunters fighting and attacking hunters makes no sense.

And professional hunters attacking hunters absolutely makes no sense.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by The Artistry of Wildlife:
Saeed said it before. Hunters fighting and attacking hunters makes no sense.

And professional hunters attacking hunters absolutely makes no sense.

It's threads like this that I find most disappointing. My disappointment stems not from the very limited perspective of this forum but the obvious fact that we as hunters will continue to eat our own with petty bickering while the real enemy surrounds us.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by The Artistry of Wildlife:
Saeed said it before. Hunters fighting and attacking hunters makes no sense.

And professional hunters attacking hunters absolutely makes no sense.

It's threads like this that I find most disappointing. My disappointment stems not from the very limited perspective of this forum but the obvious fact that we as hunters will continue to eat our own with petty bickering while the real enemy surrounds us.

Jeff

Jeff,

It's unclear to me in your post. Is it that this thread was even started that disappoints you, that the topic of trashing hunt reports even needs discussed, or that some feel it's fine for other hunters or a retired PH to criticize another hunter's legal hunting methods?

Unfortunately, all three separate us.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by The Artistry of Wildlife:
Saeed said it before. Hunters fighting and attacking hunters makes no sense.

And professional hunters attacking hunters absolutely makes no sense.

It's threads like this that I find most disappointing. My disappointment stems not from the very limited perspective of this forum but the obvious fact that we as hunters will continue to eat our own with petty bickering while the real enemy surrounds us.

Jeff

Jeff,

It's unclear to me in your post. Is it that this thread was even started that disappoints you, that the topic of trashing hunt reports even needs discussed, or that some feel it's fine for other hunters or a retired PH to criticize another hunter's legal hunting methods?

Unfortunately, all three separate us.

Cheers
Jim

The fact that a thread like this would even need to be started says a lot. We eat our own at every given opportunity and lose ground to the anti-hunters everyday.

Jeff

While I hate people trashing or criticizing hunt reports I think call out threads are just as bad or worse.

I think this could have been handled better from all sides....

quote:

Originally posted by FishN4Eyes:
While I hate people trashing or criticizing hunt reports I think call out threads are just as bad or worse.

I think this could have been handled better from all sides....

There was an attempt over two years ago to do just that.

Thread

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by FishN4Eyes:
While I hate people trashing or criticizing hunt reports I think call out threads are just as bad or worse.

I think this could have been handled better from all sides....

There was an attempt over two years ago to do just that.

Thread

Point received but how is that better or different than starting a thread trashing the trasher?

I have always enjoyed your threads and posts, Jim, especially the ones that involve Joyce.

Frankly I was surprised you started the thread as you always seem very respectful and tolerant.

I can understand your sentiment about possibly jeopardizing someone's future hunt report but the OP seemed more like an advertisement than a "true" hunt report to me.

To the best of my recollection, they have not contributed to the thread again.

As I said, both sides probably erred.

No skin off my back, I'm looking forward to your 2015 report.

Cheers, Jim.

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by FishN4Eyes:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by FishN4Eyes:
While I hate people trashing or criticizing hunt reports I think call out threads are just as bad or worse.

I think this could have been handled better from all sides....

There was an attempt over two years ago to do just that.

Thread

Point received but how is that better or different than starting a thread trashing the trasher?

I have always enjoyed your threads and posts, Jim, especially the ones that involve Joyce.

Frankly I was surprised you started the thread as you always seem very respectful and tolerant.

I can understand your sentiment about possibly jeopardizing someone's future hunt report but the OP seemed more like an advertisement than a "true" hunt report to me.

To the best of my recollection, they have not contributed to the thread again.

As I said, both sides probably erred.

No skin off my back, I'm looking forward to your 2015 report.

Cheers, Jim.

Chris

Chris,

Thank you for the kind words concerning Joyce and our hunt reports.

No argument from me that the hunt report referenced perhaps leaned towards advertising. Since the OP has not returned we will never know. Either way I don't blame him for not returning.

Have I been harsh to Shakari. Yes no doubt. He's already voiced in this thread

1) He doesn't care what anyone else thinks of him

2) He hates pen raised Lion hunting and will do what he can to stop it including crapping on any future hunt reports containing what he thinks is a Penned Lion Hunt.

So if he got some scuff marks when I threw him under the bus I really don't care.

I suspect there are posters on here that do not like hunting any game with dogs, anything taken behind a fence, any game that was bought at auction before hunted, shooting from vehicles, helicopters in New Zealand, frankly the list is endless.

If every time someone puts up a LEGAL hunt report they are holding their breath waiting for that one poster that doesn't agree with the time, place, method, or animal to chime it, thus turning the report into a pissing match with piling on discussions that turn it from a report to a lynching, then we are going to have less hunt reports. PERIOD!!

I've never said people shouldn't have opinions and express them, I've merely attempted to suggest that a link placed in the hunt report (or offered discounted hunt thread) to a thread posted in this forum will have the same educational result and will not discourage others from posting hunt reports in the future.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
Personally I do not think that any of the players would have tweet to say if……… "I booked a 'hunt' for a pen raised lion in (RSA or wherever) and this is what happened………… " or

"We offer lion hunts for pen raise lions and guarantee they will be release …….. days before you hunt."

When is the last time you have seen that?


Waiting.

Or more appropriately; "I booked a 'shoot', 'slaughter', 'kill', for a pen raised lion in (RSA or wherever) and this is what happened………… "


By English language and US/Canadian legal definitions, the pursuit and killing of captive animals within an enclosed space is NOT Hunting.
By definition, "Hunting" involves killing "Wildlife".
"Wildlife" is legally defined to exclude captive animals.


The shooting of captive animals should never be described as Hunting.

Never saw the point to this thread. The "shoot" was obviously canned, no one could miss that.

Steve simply gave his opinion, one based on far more experience than any of us have.

So I don't see the issue. If you don't want to listen to facts, or opinions of those who know far more than you, have at it. Ignore it.

Go on and do your own stupid stuff, but don't call me to bail your ass out.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Never saw the point to this thread.

It had the same point as this thread from over two years ago. Thanks for the bump.

I did a search in the hunt reports forum for some of your hunt reports but couldn't find any. Have I over looked them?

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Never saw the point to this thread.

It had the same point as this thread from over two years ago. Thanks for the bump.

I did a search in the hunt reports forum for some of your hunt reports but couldn't find any. Have I over looked them?

Cheers
Jim

Steve did not turn that thread into a pissing match.

Steve brought into the open that what is portrayed as a free range hunt wasn't.

So what was wrong with that?

The original poster put her as an advert for his company.

There is nothing wrong with that, as we all like to see successful hunts, and if that gives the company more business, it is good for all involved.

But, to try to post something that is not true, and someone calls you out, that is how it should be.

If all the facts were stated, and made plain that the lion was raised on a farm, and pit out to be shot, Steve, or others, might not have bothered posting on it.

Saeed
While the element of debate is one of the features that makes AR great, I must say for me it is always the hunt report section that I visit first. Over time more and more people have been commenting that they won't post reports because of the armchair critics out there that have nothing better to do than dump on another persons account of his/her hunt.

We may not all agree on what makes an ethical hunt or not but it is poor form to disparage someone else's report. Rather start another thread to debate the matter. It doesn't mean you have to unanimously support the hunt/hunter either. The rating system is there to rate the report.

The OP in this case (lion hunter) was flying close to the line of advertising but again could it not just be the enthusiasm of a first timer who had a harrowing experience.

In the end the issue is about encouraging more reports rather than debating the morals of the hunt. After all, in your own words, the hunt was legal.
JCHB

quote:

Originally posted by walking buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
Personally I do not think that any of the players would have tweet to say if……… "I booked a 'hunt' for a pen raised lion in (RSA or wherever) and this is what happened………… " or

"We offer lion hunts for pen raise lions and guarantee they will be release …….. days before you hunt."

When is the last time you have seen that?


Waiting.

Or more appropriately; "I booked a 'shoot', 'slaughter', 'kill', for a pen raised lion in (RSA or wherever) and this is what happened………… "


By English language and US/Canadian legal definitions, the pursuit and killing of captive animals within an enclosed space is NOT Hunting.
By definition, "Hunting" involves killing "Wildlife".
"Wildlife" is legally defined to exclude captive animals.


The shooting of captive animals should never be described as Hunting.

Actually you are both wrong. The law stipulates that the hunting client needs to know that it is a " captive bred lion " that's what it's called.
And the size if the area that the hunt is to be conducted on needs to be stipulated.

I hunt both wild lion and Captive bred lion. Hunting a un - drugged lion walk and stalk on roughly 40 square miles ( 10 000 ha ) takes some seriously good trackers, tons of walking and one or two close shaves.

Simply put , don't bash it if you haven't tried it. The same goes for fenced properties , if you have no experience of it, you have NO experience.

Hunting is hunting , support it, all it's legal forms.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

Hunting is hunting , support it, all it's legal forms.

That thumbs up deal...

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

Hunting is hunting , support it, all it's legal forms.

That thumbs up deal...

+1

quote:

Originally posted by JCHB:
Saeed
While the element of debate is one of the features that makes AR great, I must say for me it is always the hunt report section that I visit first. Over time more and more people have been commenting that they won't post reports because of the armchair critics out there that have nothing better to do than dump on another persons account of his/her hunt.

We may not all agree on what makes an ethical hunt or not but it is poor form to disparage someone else's report. Rather start another thread to debate the matter. It doesn't mean you have to unanimously support the hunt/hunter either. The rating system is there to rate the report.

The OP in this case (lion hunter) was flying close to the line of advertising but again could it not just be the enthusiasm of a first timer who had a harrowing experience.

In the end the issue is about encouraging more reports rather than debating the morals of the hunt. After all, in your own words, the hunt was legal.
JCHB

Exactly!!

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by walking buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
Personally I do not think that any of the players would have tweet to say if……… "I booked a 'hunt' for a pen raised lion in (RSA or wherever) and this is what happened………… " or

"We offer lion hunts for pen raise lions and guarantee they will be release …….. days before you hunt."

When is the last time you have seen that?


Waiting.

Or more appropriately; "I booked a 'shoot', 'slaughter', 'kill', for a pen raised lion in (RSA or wherever) and this is what happened………… "


By English language and US/Canadian legal definitions, the pursuit and killing of captive animals within an enclosed space is NOT Hunting.
By definition, "Hunting" involves killing "Wildlife".
"Wildlife" is legally defined to exclude captive animals.


The shooting of captive animals should never be described as Hunting.

Actually you are both wrong. The law stipulates that the hunting client needs to know that it is a " captive bred lion " that's what it's called.
And the size if the area that the hunt is to be conducted on needs to be stipulated.

I hunt both wild lion and Captive bred lion. Hunting a un - drugged lion walk and stalk on roughly 40 square miles ( 10 000 ha ) takes some seriously good trackers, tons of walking and one or two close shaves.

Simply put , don't bash it if you haven't tried it. The same goes for fenced properties , if you have no experience of it, you have NO experience.

Hunting is hunting , support it, all it's legal forms.

You have clearly misrepresented my comments.

I never made any accusation or claim of legal offense nor impropriety. I did not offer a personal judgment on the practice of shooting captive animals.

FYI, I have shot captive animals. I accept that while the activity was fun, even containing some challenges in the pursuit and even an element of danger at times, it still was NOT A HUNT.



What I did present was the True definition of "Hunting", based on both the literal definition of the English word and it's application to most legislation within the US and Canada.

By definition, the shooting of captive animals is NOT "Hunting".

"HUNTING" is defined by the pursuit with intent to kill or capture "WILDLIFE".

"WILDLIFE" by definition excludes captive animals.



You state a legal requirement to inform the client as to the heritage of the animal to be pursued, while still calling the endeavour to be a "Hunt" even when captive animals are the target. I suggest that this is a continuance of false advertising.

Lets simply makes things clear to all and have the captive animal market promote their activities under their own unique descriptive. This industry can call their activity anything they want, except HUNTING.

quote:

Lets simply makes things clear to all and have the captive animal market promote their activities under their own unique descriptive.

This is what has been argued all the time but some people think differently - particularly the breeders!

Canned is canned no matter what - advertise the hunt or post the report for what it is and not otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Lets simply makes things clear to all and have the captive animal market promote their activities under their own unique descriptive.

This is what has been argued all the time but some people think differently - particularly the breeders!

Canned is canned no matter what - advertise the hunt or post the report for what it is and not otherwise post the report for what it is and not otherwise.

And even though the HUNT REPORT say's nothing about "wild Lions, or misrepresents the facts in any way, you can still be counted on to post shit like this....

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
H at H:


Wow .... that was some hunt!

From how you described it the 'cat was back in the bag' between a late lunch and dinner - that's record-breaking time

That is one seriously handsome Sable though cannot figure out the white object sticking out of its left ear or is it a spot?

Your Warthog must have produced a dinner fit for a King - just the right size for a BBQ spit - Man my mouth waters just thinking' about it!

Do you think "hunteratheart" really deserves that for taking the time to post and share his experience? Do you think he would be thus inclined to ever post another hunt report? Do you think someone else reading the hunt report and your bullshit statement might then say to themselves, "I'm never posting a hunt report on AR".

Now where have I ever seen that sentence before and why?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Lets simply makes things clear to all and have the captive animal market promote their activities under their own unique descriptive.

This is what has been argued all the time but some people think differently - particularly the breeders!

Canned is canned no matter what - advertise the hunt or post the report for what it is and not otherwise post the report for what it is and not otherwise.

And even though the HUNT REPORT say's nothing about "wild Lions, or misrepresents the facts in any way, you can still be counted on to post shit like this....

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
H at H:


Wow .... that was some hunt!

From how you described it the 'cat was back in the bag' between a late lunch and dinner - that's record-breaking time

That is one seriously handsome Sable though cannot figure out the white object sticking out of its left ear or is it a spot?

Your Warthog must have produced a dinner fit for a King - just the right size for a BBQ spit - Man my mouth waters just thinking' about it!

Do you think "hunteratheart" really deserves that for taking the time to post and share his experience? Do you think he would be thus inclined to ever post another hunt report? Do you think someone else reading the hunt report and your bullshit statement might then say to themselves, "I'm never posting a hunt report on AR".

Now where have I ever seen that sentence before and why?

Hi Jim,
I agree with this, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twi..... well, you know the rest.

This stuff is actually good for the forum in some ways, I think it naturally makes us exclude some PH's from our choice of someone to spend a month with.

Have a great weekend Jim & Joyce!!

Steve

Well Lincoln said it best. better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. It appears a couple here have removed all doubt. Know nothing punks who have spent five mins in africa trying to tell someone who has spent a life time there about it. With there expertise!! it appears the cold air does make some people stupid. I love the self righteous asshats on this site who think that because they spent a few weeks in africa that know everything. NEWS flash shit heads you don't know shit. I feel honored to be able to call Steve Robinson my friend. an you self appointed Einsteins. can fuk off eat fecal matter and die. you wouldn't make a pimple on Steve's ass.

OMG 7 pages...

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
Well Lincoln said it best. better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. It appears a couple here have removed all doubt. Know nothing punks who have spent five mins in africa trying to tell someone who has spent a life time there about it. With there expertise!! it appears the cold air does make some people stupid. I love the self righteous asshats on this site who think that because they spent a few weeks in africa that know everything. NEWS flash shit heads you don't know shit. I feel honored to be able to call Steve Robinson my friend. an you self appointed Einsteins. can fuk off eat fecal matter and die. you wouldn't make a pimple on Steve's ass.

Unhelpful and belligerent. But Comical. I especially love use of a Lincoln reference (regarding stupidity no less) before you slide into the postman rant chocked full of obligatory expletives.

You gotta love a friend that will bring to the top a thread that was about to roll off into oblivion . . . and to do so with such an articulate and well thought out addition to boot. Priceless.

Bottom line, if Steve wants to call bull crap on someone's hunt, I see no issue with someone calling bull crap on Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
Well Lincoln said it best. better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. It appears a couple here have removed all doubt. Know nothing punks who have spent five mins in africa trying to tell someone who has spent a life time there about it. With there expertise!! it appears the cold air does make some people stupid. I love the self righteous asshats on this site who think that because they spent a few weeks in africa that know everything. NEWS flash shit heads you don't know shit. I feel honored to be able to call Steve Robinson my friend. an you self appointed Einsteins. can fuk off eat fecal matter and die. you wouldn't make a pimple on Steve's ass.

Unhelpful and belligerent. But Comical. I especially love use of a Lincoln reference (regarding stupidity no less) before you slide into the postman rant chocked full of obligatory expletives.

Not to mention the fact he bumped this all but dead thread back to the top so I thank him for that.

Just to be clear and try to address the under current of points hidden under the expletives....

This thread is still simply about the fact that if hunt reports continue to be shit on, there will be less hunt reports. I included the word shit in order to allow folks like "Hook" to digest the matter better.