quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:




May be this is the sort of lion that has been advertised.

At least that is the idea one would get from a farm raised lion.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:




May be this is the sort of lion that has been advertised.

At least that is the idea one would get from a farm raised lion.

That seals it!! I'm booking that dachshund hunt I have been dreaming about!!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I got a message that AR is not very well liked in certain quarters in South Africa and certain "trophy oriented" quarters in the US!

I suppose the truth can be rather telling sometime.

I have always said it, and I will repeat it here.

I have absolutely nothing against anyone shooting anything that is legal.

But, as my friend Mike above stated, call a spade a spade.

And if that does not fit with your own agenda, tough luck.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I got a message that AR is not very well liked in certain quarters in South Africa and certain "trophy oriented" quarters in the US!

I suppose the truth can be rather telling sometime.

I have always said it, and I will repeat it here.

I have absolutely nothing against anyone shooting anything that is legal.

But, as my friend Mike above stated, call a spade a spade.

And if that does not fit with your own agenda, tough luck.

so you don't think SCI will rent you a booth, Saeed??

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I got a message that AR is not very well liked in certain quarters in South Africa and certain "trophy oriented" quarters in the US!

I suppose the truth can be rather telling sometime.

I have always said it, and I will repeat it here.

I have absolutely nothing against anyone shooting anything that is legal.

But, as my friend Mike above stated, call a spade a spade.

And if that does not fit with your own agenda, tough luck.

so you don't think SCI will rent you a booth, Saeed??

I'm trying to think of what his "mandatory" donation would be.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
This thread seem to be done and dead?

Let's just give a few - not nearly all, but just a few - facts;

1. The "wilding" period that is legally required varies quite a bit from province to province. There was a lot of speculation about how much a trophy size captive bred and then released lion eats in a year. Fact is that the legal minimum wilding period is 96 hours in North West Province!

2. Some other provinces have significantly longer wilding periods.

Considering the fact that a properly "tranquilized to be transported" lion can still have significant amounts of, let's just call it Vitiman-K, left to be under at least partial sedation after 96 hours. It is very unlikely that such a well-sedated lion will even bother to attempt to catch any prey withing the first 4 days after it's release, i.e. before the Vitamin-K has been fully worked out of it's system!

One more [unsubstantiated by myself - but at least believed to be true] fact: The Free State Province has the biggest lion population in South Africa.

Now I will ask everyone to guess in which one of the South African provinces most of the legal captive bred and released lion shooting is undertaken today? Yup! The North West Province, with it's very short time requirement between the release and shooting!

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I think, Steve Shakari know more about the lion issue than rest of us combine
Maybe we just ought to hear him out and listen carefully.
I for one would never hunt farm lion, I think, it goes against every grain of hunters ethics.
Done here and go Steve

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I think, Steve Shakari know more about the lion issue than rest of us combine
Maybe we just ought to hear him out and listen carefully.
I for one would never hunt farm lion, I think, it goes against every grain of hunters ethics.
Done here and go Steve

Agree! Steve is everything he says he is, and he does know a whole lot about lion hunting, & African hunting in general! I feel the same way about this farmed/canned/zoo lion issue!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I think, Steve Shakari know more about the lion issue than rest of us combine
Maybe we just ought to hear him out and listen carefully.
I for one would never hunt farm lion, I think, it goes against every grain of hunters ethics.
Done here and go Steve

Agree! Steve is everything he says he is, and he does know a whole lot about lion hunting, & African hunting in general! I feel the same way about this farmed/canned/zoo lion issue!

I agree with you. I agree with Steve's thoughts about the "canned" lion hunting. This is not what the thread is about. It is about how that knowledge was communicated.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I think, Steve Shakari know more about the lion issue than rest of us combine
Maybe we just ought to hear him out and listen carefully.
I for one would never hunt farm lion, I think, it goes against every grain of hunters ethics.
Done here and go Steve

Agree! Steve is everything he says he is, and he does know a whole lot about lion hunting, & African hunting in general! I feel the same way about this farmed/canned/zoo lion issue!

I agree with you. I agree with Steve's thoughts about the "canned" lion hunting. This is not what the thread is about. It is about how that knowledge was communicated.

In fairness I've never been known for my diplomatic skills but I do feel very strongly about the issue and as I said, I consider the issue far more important than the risk of offending a few people's finer sensibilities!

I've always believed in calling a spade a spade rather than an earth inverting horticultural implement and whilst I'm sorry if that attitude upsets some people, I don't feel sorry enough for me to change my opinion nor how I express it.

I will say that I don't believe this thread was created or was about how I communicate my opinion at all. I believe it was a deliberate attempt by one or two very chilldish individuals to cast doubt on my experience and/or ability.

And I don't give a flying fuck that they question that either!

I am what I am. Nothing more and nothing and less and people can take me as I am or do the other thing.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Quite honestly Steve, IMO, if there are fewer reports of 'hunts' of that type, it's probably a good thing because it might mean fewer hunts of that type are going on....... and every report of such a 'hunt' means that some other bugger has been taken for a ride.

You'll never see me criticise any fair chase hunt here or anywhere else.

I also have to say that in that particular case, I rather suspect it was more bait (as in badly thought out sales pitch) than report.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Quite honestly Steve, IMO, if there are fewer reports of 'hunts' of that type, it's probably a good thing because it might mean fewer hunts of that type are going on....... and every report of such a 'hunt' means that some other bugger has been taken for a ride.

You'll never see me criticise any fair chase hunt here or anywhere else.

I also have to say that in that particular case, I rather suspect it was more bait (as in badly thought out sales pitch) than report.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Where have I EVER claimed to be an authority on anything?... but I never have and never will, claim to be an authority on anything.

quote:

sure strike: There is a huge difference between freedom of speech and troll control and this place doesn't get it.

I've done multiple African hunts in Zimbabwe, Tanzania and South Africa. They are to important to me to have them trashed via hunt report on AR. It is a shame that we can't have intelligent moderation here as there isn't another site that has the depth of experience and knowledge regarding hunting in general than AR. I come here and I still learn some very useful things from our members it's a valuable site. But the background noise is almost intolerable at times.

quote:

There is a huge difference between freedom of speech and troll control and this place doesn't get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

There is a huge difference between freedom of speech and troll control and this place doesn't get it.

In my experience, people like to have freedom of speech as long as it is their opinion being considered.

If someone else has another point of view, then it no longer is freedom of speech.

Isn't that what our whole society is suffering from right now?

quote:

Originally posted by vvreddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

There is a huge difference between freedom of speech and troll control and this place doesn't get it.

In my experience, people like to have freedom of speech as long as it is their opinion being considered.

If someone else has another point of view, then it no longer is freedom of speech.

Isn't that what our whole society is suffering from right now?

Freedom of speech and moderation are two entirely different concepts.

Roberts Rules of Order and other frameworks exist because they are required to have a fruitful conversation, not to curb free speech.

I don't know of a single popular forum that does not have a written moderation policy but I guess you know something that others don't.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

There is a huge difference between freedom of speech and troll control and this place doesn't get it.

In my experience, people like to have freedom of speech as long as it is their opinion being considered.

If someone else has another point of view, then it no longer is freedom of speech.

Isn't that what our whole society is suffering from right now?

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

There is a huge difference between freedom of speech and troll control and this place doesn't get it.

In my experience, people like to have freedom of speech as long as it is their opinion being considered.

If someone else has another point of view, then it no longer is freedom of speech.

Isn't that what our whole society is suffering from right now?

So do the Carmello's, Katz, Shootaways of the world have differing opinions or are they just making noise? Are they not trying simply to draw negative attention to themselves to the detriment of the community at large?

I have no issue with discourse civil or even uncivil if it has a purpose and a direction. But when a two year old child starts screaming during a conversation that child either needs to be removed from the area or the conversation will by necessity cease. While that child may well also have a right to his or her freedom of speech they do not have a right to a freedom of loud annoying noise that disrupts meaningful communication.

These notorious trolls are like 2 year old children who are simply making noise for purpose of attention and disruption. The simple solution is to quietly and immediately remove them from the area so as to avoid further disruption. The only outcome of leaving the squabbling little brat unattended is a decrease in the exchange of information and communication. Leaving these trolls un moderated causes those multiple page meaningless shit storms that we see all to often on AR.

Put the screaming little brats at the children's table where they belong. It tends to make for more a pleasant conversation.

My opinion only of course.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
When someone starts posting about scoring points and wining, I know it's time to walk away. There is a ton of knowledge on this board from a very unique group of hunters but often it gets lots in the desire to win an internet argument. Time to step away from the computer and reevaluate your participation at that point.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I reckon I'm well ahead on points but here's another if you're as fed up with me quoting ad hominem as I am of having to quote it because you can't win any other way:

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
― Socrates

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Frostbit,

Answer me this. Do you believe that lion hunt was a wild lion hunt as claimed in the original post?

Yes or no?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I mean Do you believe that lion hunt was a wild lion hunt as claimed in the original post?

To help you, his original words were:

"in brief, Lion was a wild lion taken from game reserve due to bad attitude i.e. fighting other lions, charging vehicles, and killing to many animals"

Do you believe that was a truthful description of the 'hunt'.

Yes or no....... nothing else. No preaching, no lecturing, just a yes or no answer?

Then I'll be happy to address your question (s)