quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Gentlemen (and Ladies),

How about we all agree to try and stop turning threads on those two forums into pissing matches. If you don't like canned Lion hunting tell everybody about it here. If you don't agree with someone's idea of maturity of game or the method in which it was taken voice it with a thread here.

It's just not right pissing on someone's report or hunt offer.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Gentlemen (and Ladies),

How about we all agree to try and stop turning threads on those two forums into pissing matches. If you don't like canned Lion hunting tell everybody about it here. If you don't agree with someone's idea of maturity of game or the method in which it was taken voice it with a thread here.

It's just not right pissing on someone's report or hunt offer.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

It's just not right pissing on someone's report or hunt offer.

quote:

I don't think we need a SHOUT OUT forum. All we need is for outfitters to provide full disclosure about the type of hunt they are promoting and how it is to be conducted. Maybe the Admins could add such a requirement and hold outfitters to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Wouldnt it be simpler if some additional rules, faq's as it were ... were posted for every entry in that section.... such as...

1. Is it high fence/low fence - not some bullshit excuse, like the fence is fallen down on one side. It either is or it isnt.
2. Will I be hunting a natural breeding herd?
3. Will I be hunting for the biggest trophy available? Are there any premiums to be paid for bigger trophies?

These are the types questions that most buyers want to know... you might as well be honest upfront and everyone post them!!

These same questions/answers can be applied to any trophy hunt - providing them (and possibly others) upfront may even cut down the BS and innuendo!! Anyone who doesnt want to post the answers to these questions - doesnt want to be upfront and honest.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Wouldnt it be simpler if some additional rules, faq's as it were ... were posted for every entry in that section.... such as...

1. Is it high fence/low fence - not some bullshit excuse, like the fence is fallen down on one side. It either is or it isnt.
2. Will I be hunting a natural breeding herd?
3. Will I be hunting for the biggest trophy available? Are there any premiums to be paid for bigger trophies?

These are the types questions that most buyers want to know... you might as well be honest upfront and everyone post them!!

These same questions/answers can be applied to any trophy hunt - providing them (and possibly others) upfront may even cut down the BS and innuendo!! Anyone who doesnt want to post the answers to these questions - doesnt want to be upfront and honest.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Wouldnt it be simpler if some additional rules, faq's as it were ... were posted for every entry in that section.... such as...

1. Is it high fence/low fence - not some bullshit excuse, like the fence is fallen down on one side. It either is or it isnt.
2. Will I be hunting a natural breeding herd?
3. Will I be hunting for the biggest trophy available? Are there any premiums to be paid for bigger trophies?

These are the types questions that most buyers want to know... you might as well be honest upfront and everyone post them!!

These same questions/answers can be applied to any trophy hunt - providing them (and possibly others) upfront may even cut down the BS and innuendo!! Anyone who doesnt want to post the answers to these questions - doesnt want to be upfront and honest.

+1

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Wouldnt it be simpler if some additional rules, faq's as it were ... were posted for every entry in that section.... such as...

1. Is it high fence/low fence - not some bullshit excuse, like the fence is fallen down on one side. It either is or it isnt.
2. Will I be hunting a natural breeding herd?
3. Will I be hunting for the biggest trophy available? Are there any premiums to be paid for bigger trophies?

These are the types questions that most buyers want to know... you might as well be honest upfront and everyone post them!!

These same questions/answers can be applied to any trophy hunt - providing them (and possibly others) upfront may even cut down the BS and innuendo!! Anyone who doesnt want to post the answers to these questions - doesnt want to be upfront and honest.

quote:

Originally posted by nube:
I agree with Gibs. I would rather be able to speak my mind especially on canned shooting. Shooting an animal in a 2000acre pen isn't going to look good to any of the non hunters out there. Hunting Whitetails where your garanteed a buck over 170" as posted in the past isn't what I consider hunting.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by nube:
I agree with Gibs. I would rather be able to speak my mind especially on canned shooting. Shooting an animal in a 2000acre pen isn't going to look good to any of the non hunters out there. Hunting Whitetails where your garanteed a buck over 170" as posted in the past isn't what I consider hunting.



If you think 2000 ac is a pen , you don't know what trees and brush looks like.

Just for instance in texas a white-tail buck will have a home range 0f @400-500 acres-

Shooting any animal doesn't look good to the anti's and neither does your judgmental holier than thou attitude.

quote:

Originally posted by African Hunters Quest:

quote:

I don't think we need a SHOUT OUT forum. All we need is for outfitters to provide full disclosure about the type of hunt they are promoting and how it is to be conducted. Maybe the Admins could add such a requirement and hold outfitters to it.

It is still just another form of censorship.

quote:

fujotupu:

It would be even better for canned hunts to be offered as canned hunts and not camouflaged as a natural hunt where the offered animal is pen raised or genetically modified and where, in a number of cases, decent clients unwittingly get taken for a ride.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Jim,

The last I knew the the Save had 16K's of its fence down. That's basically 10 miles. I guess it would have to be up to the individul if they thought the SAVE constituted a fenced property or not. To me the fence is irrelevant. The point is does the SAVE offer fair chase hunting and I believe it does.

To your original topic as others have suggested perhaps a little more tweaking of the rules for posting a hunt offering should be implemented. I personally have left out details on a hunt that I should have known, included and I apologized for that. I was not intentionally being deceptive but I was in a hurry to put something up and was not careful enough. So I would be more than happy to include more mandatory details. What I object to is the bashing an individual may get because their hunt offering does not fit someone's idea of an ethical hunt or they feel the hunt is too expensive etc. Saeed's philosophy is that if it is legal you can post it. I think all legitimate questions about who, what, where should be addressed by the one offering the hunt but these threads on a hunt that go off into space about whether high fence, low fence, no fence, put and take, naturally breeding etc constutute real hunting seems out of place to me on the Offered and Discounted Hunt forum.

As for the bashing of an individual's hunt report I just find that to be in extremely poor taste. When a bunch of people tell an individual that their hunt was shit when they are obviously quite excited about their experience is just not necessary. This bashing has made me rethink what I personally will include in future hunt reports. Over the last year or so several posters here have said to me "Why would I ever post a hunt report on AR".

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Overland:

quote:

Frostbit:

It would be even better for canned hunts to be offered as canned hunts and not camouflaged as a natural hunt where the offered animal is pen raised or genetically modified and where, in a number of cases, decent clients unwittingly get taken for a ride.

I agree with this statement. An open market relies upon word of mouth, whether it be good or bad. A good product will receive praise. A bad product will be marked as such. All those commercials we see on TV for 24 karat gold plated buffalo nickels are meant to lure people into buying reproductions. Through very careful wording, the company that makes them leads one to believe that one is buying an authentic US Mint coin. I feel it is my responsibility to inform people that what they are considering ordering is not the real thing, not what they think it is. How are these canned lion hunts that are being marketed very carefully so as to lead one to believe they are free-range not the same thing as the 24 karat gold plated buffalo nickels? Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. If one's product is inferior and receives negative publicity, then perhaps the problem lies with one's product, not with those who criticize it.

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
Frostbit, .... Naturally, the thread that you started to promote this idea has already deteriorated into the type of food-fight that you were decrying...but, hey, it's the thought that counts.


John

quote:

My only heartburn on this issue is the "pile on" mentality we so frequently see on anything related to Lions, Fences and the like. What on earth is wrong with just bypassing the offered hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
Randall,
As usual, you rendered it down to the nuts and bolts. The only winner is the poster who's ego is somehow inflated by his witty remarks about a high fenced this or a soft bossed that or an immature whatever.

The looser's are many, how many members of this forum, past present and future will not post trophy pictures for fear of ridicule, or just have grown tired of the theatrics.

There are, I'm sure an exponential amount of lurkers, who love to look at pictures of hunts, animals and places that they could only dream of. They read these reports with wonder and amazement. Those of us that have chosen to not share, are not thin skinned, or "have our balls in our GF's purse". Why on earth would someone willingly subject themselves to this, from a bunch of guys you don't even know?

Those that we wish to share them with, we do, pretty simple concept huh. Like I said the forum looses.

Steve

quote:

A lot of that comes down to the moderation though dont you think?? It is all well and good to have a very open and inclusive discussion - but when people start stiring for petty point-scoring - it must be the moderators who step-in?? I would think...

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

Originally posted by nube:
I agree with Gibs. I would rather be able to speak my mind especially on canned shooting. Shooting an animal in a 2000acre pen isn't going to look good to any of the non hunters out there. Hunting Whitetails where your garanteed a buck over 170" as posted in the past isn't what I consider hunting.

If you think 2000 ac is a pen , you don't know what trees and brush looks like.

Just for instance in texas a white-tail buck will have a home range 0f @400-500 acres-

Shooting any animal doesn't look good to the anti's and neither does your judgmental holier than thou attitude.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
Randall,
As usual, you rendered it down to the nuts and bolts. The only winner is the poster who's ego is somehow inflated by his witty remarks about a high fenced this or a soft bossed that or an immature whatever.

The looser's are many, how many members of this forum, past present and future will not post trophy pictures for fear of ridicule, or just have grown tired of the theatrics.

There are, I'm sure an exponential amount of lurkers, who love to look at pictures of hunts, animals and places that they could only dream of. They read these reports with wonder and amazement. Those of us that have chosen to not share, are not thin skinned, or "have our balls in our GF's purse". Why on earth would someone willingly subject themselves to this, from a bunch of guys you don't even know?

Those that we wish to share them with, we do, pretty simple concept huh. Like I said the forum looses.

Steve

A lot of that comes down to the moderation though dont you think?? It is all well and good to have a very open and inclusive discussion - but when people start stiring for petty point-scoring - it must be the moderators who step-in?? I would think...

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

A lot of that comes down to the moderation though dont you think?? It is all well and good to have a very open and inclusive discussion - but when people start stiring for petty point-scoring - it must be the moderators who step-in?? I would think...

Damn Good point Matt. I really like this place because moderation is not all that heavy handed, but with something like this, it might be better that the thread is locked, and when someone wants to post a hunt offering it has to go thru a Moderator, and regular members only option is to either PM the person offering the hunt, or start a discussion in one of the other topic areas, specifically the one where the hunt is being offered i.e. Africa/America/Canada etc. etc. etc..

I have seen some sites where this is S.O.P., folks offering hunts, posts can not be responded too, so they will not be reduced to contests.

quote:

Originally posted by nube:

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

Originally posted by nube:
I agree with Gibs. I would rather be able to speak my mind especially on canned shooting. Shooting an animal in a 2000acre pen isn't going to look good to any of the non hunters out there. Hunting Whitetails where your garanteed a buck over 170" as posted in the past isn't what I consider hunting.

If you think 2000 ac is a pen , you don't know what trees and brush looks like.

Just for instance in texas a white-tail buck will have a home range 0f @400-500 acres-

Shooting any animal doesn't look good to the anti's and neither does your judgmental holier than thou attitude.

SSR

Sorry if you took offence Cross. I was not putting you down for huning like this but simply stated how I felt about it. I also do feel 2000acres is a very small piece of land to hunt on. To give you a little history I have hunted in SA. It might shock the one poster that suggested I have not. I wanted a Zebra on my trip and it happens they took me to a small area of 4000 acres. We walked around in circles and blew about 4 stalks till we finally got my zebra. Was I really thrilled about it? Not really. The Zebra had no chance to get away from me. It ran off after we blew a stalk and we just had to close the distance again to see if we could get it done. I ended up shooting 12 species in 8 days on 60 000 acres. It was a good experience but looking back it was not a chalenge and I felt like I was collecting more than hunting. That is why this time I am headed to Zimbabwe and doing things a little differnt.

You mention a buck roaming 400 acres. The thing is some of these fenced areas will have a pil eof monster bucks in them and after a couple days of sitting there over a feeder or on an open area the success is pretty high is it not? To me it is not something I want to do but if you do it then have at it and I hope it is fun for you. I won't understand it myslef but as long as it is the experience you want then there is nothing wrong with it. I know for me I don't want to be in the same situation as I was last time in SA.

quote:

I am afraid we do not have teh time to shift through offered hunts.