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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
quote:
Originally posted by admiral:
Looking forward to more of The Mission! Won't have anything to add until the new Accurate mold 46-394N arrives.


Great !
I am not finished with cast bullet shooting either.
Making your own bullets is a handy thing for sure, nowadays !



I need to get some of that Montana Lead remover.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
 
Posts: 1934 | Location: Eastern Central Alaska | Registered: 15 July 2014Reply With Quote
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I use Marvel Mystery oil for mr cast bullet rifle cleaning. Patch wrapped caliber brush soaked. Three patches yield spotless bore. Leaves bore lubed too.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2102 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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I use a .458 Hoppe's BORE SNAKE. I rarely use anything else in any rifle. Two pulls through and I'm good to go for the year. Of course, when I put it away for the winter, it gets another pull through and a light oil treatment. That has saved an awful lot of scrubbing!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 770 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Shooter's Choice MC#7 Firearms Bore Cleaner is a good solvent for lead removal also. Patches and brushes and don't forget a little ball of 0000 steel wool
pushed and pulled back and forth on a jag for lead removal.
Also remember that stuff makes good firestarter for the survival kit.
That extra-fine steel wool comes coated in petrochemicals to keep it from rusting, blazes right up with a spark from a flint and mouth blowing.

https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/

Bob has kindly posted and expanded upon some material from me at his blog.
See his black bear kill with a 400-gr .458 bullet there, including recovered bullet photo.

https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/

Hannay gets a big buy a donkey for bringing his pdf up to the bottom of page 232.

THE MISSION continues in a thread started by Mike McGuire at 24hrcampfiredotcom.
I will make any further remarks on the Great .458 Winchester Magnum+ at that location and wherever free speech AND truth are allowed.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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RIP do you know if the USRA’s Winchester Custom Ship 458 Lotts used Jack Lott’s throat or long Won Mag throat?
 
Posts: 4801 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:


https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/

Bob has kindly posted and expanded upon some material from me at his blog.
See his black bear kill with a 400-gr .458 bullet there, including recovered bullet photo.

https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/



Bob - I read your latest post - nice to see a photo of the Speer. Do you know about what the bear weighed? If you have any recovered bullet photos of the Remington bullet, I'd certainly be interested in seeing them.

I've managed to get some more Speer bullets and also Remington bullets. I'm pretty sure either will be fine for the local whitetail deer - they rarely go much over 150 pounds field dressed.
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 27 November 2010Reply With Quote
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D Big Grin

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
quote:
Originally posted by admiral:
Looking forward to more of The Mission! Won't have anything to add until the new Accurate mold 46-394N arrives.


Great !
I am not finished with cast bullet shooting either.
Making your own bullets is a handy thing for sure, nowadays !



577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27325 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hannay:
quote:
Originally posted by RIP:


https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/

Bob has kindly posted and expanded upon some material from me at his blog.
See his black bear kill with a 400-gr .458 bullet there, including recovered bullet photo.

https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/



Bob - I read your latest post - nice to see a photo of the Speer. Do you know about what the bear weighed? If you have any recovered bullet photos of the Remington bullet, I'd certainly be interested in seeing them.

I've managed to get some more Speer bullets and also Remington bullets. I'm pretty sure either will be fine for the local whitetail deer - they rarely go much over 150 pounds field dressed.


Hannay;

The only recovered bullet I have is the one in the photo at my blog -- I still have it but it has turned much darker with age.

All I know, the bear was a good one, and one of the best I've shot in over 30 years. Pic of the rug on my office wall has shown up from time to time in my blogs.

In my next blog (Saturday), I'm talking more on bullets for the .458, including the 400 SPEER with a ballistic profile and recommendation for it's use.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 770 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by .458 Only:


Hannay;

The only recovered bullet I have is the one in the photo at my blog -- I still have it but it has turned much darker with age.

All I know, the bear was a good one, and one of the best I've shot in over 30 years. Pic of the rug on my office wall has shown up from time to time in my blogs.

In my next blog (Saturday), I'm talking more on bullets for the .458, including the 400 SPEER with a ballistic profile and recommendation for it's use.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


Thanks, Bob - I'll check out your blog this weekend.
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 27 November 2010Reply With Quote
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Can this thread get a sticky?


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27325 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I was hopeful this thread had finally died a peaceful death!



Shoot the largest caliber you can shoot well, and practice, practice, practice.
 
Posts: 594 | Location: Central Texas, U.S. | Registered: 20 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Wildcatter:
I was hopeful this thread had finally died a peaceful death!

+1

Hip

 
Posts: 733 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hipshoot:
quote:
Originally posted by Wildcatter:
I was hopeful this thread had finally died a peaceful death!

+1

Hip


Not yet! Big Grin

It has been dormant, not dead! There's too much good and worthy knowledge here to be buried by ill will and controversy!

Bob www.bigbores.ca



"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 770 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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OH GEEEESE !!!!

Said Archie Bunker ! Roll Eyes

Hip
 
Posts: 733 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I suppose the 458wm would work on geese. Might better take the rising with a headshot but I never liked geese meat no matter how it was prepared.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2102 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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This thead is hanging in there for one reason,folks are shooting for a record.

MY opine is the 458 Lott loaded down to 458 win. say a 500 gr. bullet at 2020 FPS is an extremely mild load and the 458 Win. loaded the same is a very max load, both are all you need for DG of any kind..I opted for the mild load in the Lott..Does that not make since to some of you hammer heads!! hammering rotflmo


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 38656 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Please Ray! You are literally flicking matches at a pile of old dynamite here!!

Let’s go head over to the lever action forum and let things lay over here...

RC


Shoot the largest caliber you can shoot well, and practice, practice, practice.
 
Posts: 594 | Location: Central Texas, U.S. | Registered: 20 December 2001Reply With Quote
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How can a mundane and unimpressive cartridge like the .458 have 233 pages, almost 9300 comments, and over a third of a million views?

I mean, what are you all to do when one of you discovers a real big game cartridge like the .600 nitro?

Cal
PS. Asking for a friend.


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7050 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
MY opine is the 458 Lott loaded down to 458 win. say a 500 gr. bullet at 2020 FPS is an extremely mild load and the 458 Win. loaded the same is a very max load, both are all you need for DG of any kind..I opted for the mild load in the Lott..Does that not make since to some of you hammer heads!!


While your wish makes sense Ray, the facts don't support your plan to acheive it.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2102 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
This thead is hanging in there for one reason,folks are shooting for a record.

MY opine is the 458 Lott loaded down to 458 win. say a 500 gr. bullet at 2020 FPS is an extremely mild load and the 458 Win. loaded the same is a very max load, both are all you need for DG of any kind..I opted for the mild load in the Lott..Does that not make since to some of you hammer heads!! hammering rotflmo


No doubt there is a lot of fluff in this thread that RIP was using to go for a record number of pages.

That said, Ray, there is a lot (no pun) of legit info describing the misconception between the 458 WM and 458 Lott, based on the original throat of the first 458 Lott (as Jack built) whereby an original 458 WM was reamed to take the longer brass, and the shorter SAMMI throat of the current Lott. With the current Lott's shorter throat, your argument doesn't hold water. The Lott basically achieves 50fps more with quite a bit MORE pressure. Loaded to the same pressures, the WM exceeds the Lott's performance. Go back and re-read the non fluff info in the thread.
 
Posts: 8149 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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I like to shoot 450gr mono solids in mine and their corresponding softs from either North Fork or Cutting Edge.

Easy to get 450 grainer going 2250 with 2-3 powders. I like AA-2230. Ezrider says with AA-2230...easy to get 500 gr to 2150.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
Hunter/Conservationist

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member
APHA Honorary Member

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
Posts: 29822 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Yep actually 2200 with 24" Browning Safari but I like shooting 450 swifts between 2250-2300.AA 2230!
Not sure it can be done with a mono 500 but swift, Hornady, Nosler, Woodleigh no issue
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
I like to shoot 450gr mono solids in mine and their corresponding softs from either North Fork or Cutting Edge.

Easy to get 450 grainer going 2250 with 2-3 powders. I like AA-2230. Ezrider says with AA-2230...easy to get 500 gr to 2150.
 
Posts: 2774 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Just use the 458 WM throater on the Lott. Voila! 458 win mag mag. AKA 458 WM 2 7/8.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27325 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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This whole thread has been about peddling mundane realities as though they were brilliant discoveries.

Here’s some late breaking news.

I just heard it from a guy.

Apples are not oranges.


Mike

Edited on advice of counsel.
 
Posts: 11573 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
Just use the 458 WM throater on the Lott. Voila! 458 win mag mag. AKA 458 WM 2 7/8.


Or as RIP referred to it, the 458 Lott Like Jack Built, which was an improvement over the 458 WM and the current SAMMI Lott.
 
Posts: 8149 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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Oh my goodness RC your right lets go to lever actions, better take Cal with us, I restired the pot and I feel a need take a stand, but then what the hell for!! see you at the LA thread.. hammering


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 38656 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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The Lott that Jack built on the .458 Win throat can be no longer than a .458 Win with an action to match - as in a CZ 550 or Ruger No.1. I've done it in both without reaming anything. In either the CZ or Ruger #1, I could easily seat the long Barnes all copper X-Bullets or TSX in 450gr to a COL of 3.78" In the TSX, just crimp into the bottom cannelure.

In the SAAMI Lott, 3.60" is max. Just do the math.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 770 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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I always enjoyed this thread, no dog in the fight, I learned stuff about 458 calibres when I don't own one
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 19 June 2017Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom Challis:
I always enjoyed this thread, no dog in the fight, I learned stuff about 458 calibres…


So have I eventhough I took my jabs at the 458 Windbag early on.
Once the discussion veered over into Selous and 19th century 45s, I really enjoyed it.
The argument for either the WM or Lott is that both can be used to take virtually any game animal on Earth.
In fact, if I were young again and was deciding on my first rifle - reloading combo, it would be the 458WM.
 
Posts: 2588 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
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And those were the goals sir. First to inform the facts then illuminate them with items of interest. I can see by your statement of choice, both were successful.
Best regards,


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2102 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
In fact, if I were young again and was deciding on my first rifle - reloading combo, it would be the 458WM.


That might be stout medicine for a young hunter/reloader. And as much as I've enjoyed the 416 calibers I might recommend that a young hunter/reloader go with a 375 Ruger if they want to start on the 'do all' side of things.

I think that both the 375Ruger and 458WM could handle timber elk pretty well, while the 375Ruger could still reach out fairly well for those 300-400 yard opportunities.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4247 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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While my first rifle was a win 92 32-20 then a marlin 336 30-30, then a rem 760 30-06, all gifts from family, within about 4 years; my first rifle reloading combination was my Whitworth 458wm and a Ruger #1 338wm for my light rifle. Now all these years later the old whitworth holds cast loads that shoot soft but land hard. No regrets.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2102 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
quote:
In fact, if I were young again and was deciding on my first rifle - reloading combo, it would be the 458WM.


That might be stout medicine for a young hunter/reloader. And as much as I've enjoyed the 416 calibers I might recommend that a young hunter/reloader go with a 375 Ruger if they want to start on the 'do all' side of things.

I think that both the 375Ruger and 458WM could handle timber elk pretty well, while the 375Ruger could still reach out fairly well for those 300-400 yard opportunities.


I bought my first 458WM in high school from proceeds working at the local golf course. I was 17 at the time. Yep, it was stout, but then again, so was I at that age!!

Cool
 
Posts: 8149 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
When dealing with bears I prefer a 9mm handgun over a sword
And my standard 458 over a Lott


so cool I'm with ya!
 
Posts: 11 | Location: salt lake city utah | Registered: 19 September 2021Reply With Quote
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super cool!!!!!!!!!!
 
Posts: 11 | Location: salt lake city utah | Registered: 19 September 2021Reply With Quote
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Since it's a bit over a year since there's anything new on this post, let me praise the .458 Win for it's versatility.

Just now I'm hunting a big Northern whitetail buck with my #1 Ruger in .458 Winchester Magnum. No, not with a 500gr or even a 350gr, but a 250gr Hornady MonoFlex at 2610 fps. They shoot one-hole groups at 50 yards. Recoil is a mere 23 ft-lbs from my rifle with Mag-na-ports.

Yesterday I saw some very fresh tracks of a very heavy buck and hope to be at it again tomorrow. That is a monometal bullet with a polymer tip made for Marlins in .450 and .45-70, and good for big game to 250 yards or so. It could also be pushed out the muzzle of my rifle at 3000 fps but I've no need for that.

2610 fps from 65 grains of AA5744, Hornady brass and WLRM primers. COL = 3.335". Thought somebody might like to know.

BTW, that load was suggested by Dr Ron Berry (RIP).

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 770 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Good luck with the deer hunting Bob. My .458 is in getting some new NECG sights right now and then Cerakoted. I will have it back and ready to roll for spring bear season. Looking forward to it. Smiler


______________________________________________

The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift.



 
Posts: 1544 | Location: Northwestern BC | Registered: 21 July 2006Reply With Quote
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I have to admit the Lott/458 Win posts suffer more from Balistic Masterbation than anything else..the 458 Win is a fine DG caliber, been proven over and again, that However does not make it superior to the 458 LOtt, it just does not! the Lott gets up to 2400 fps with a max load, shoot mine at 2200 to 2350 FPS, and BTW I have the option of shooting 458 Win ammo in it..but all that said, I got old, recoil is beginning to ouch me more than it did yesteryear, so I now opt for a 375 Ruger and a 338 win...They are not the best choices for DG but they'll do! tu2


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 38656 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Skyline:
Good luck with the deer hunting Bob. My .458 is in getting some new NECG sights right now and then Cerakoted. I will have it back and ready to roll for spring bear season. Looking forward to it. Smiler


Bear season shuts down here in a couple days, but spring season starts May 1st and I'll have my .458 ready.

Hope the work on yours turns out well.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 770 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have to admit the Lott/458 Win posts suffer more from Balistic Masterbation than anything else..the 458 Win is a fine DG caliber, been proven over and again, that However does not make it superior to the 458 LOtt, it just does not! the Lott gets up to 2400 fps with a max load, shoot mine at 2200 to 2350 FPS, and BTW I have the option of shooting 458 Win ammo in it..but all that said, I got old, recoil is beginning to ouch me more than it did yesteryear, so I now opt for a 375 Ruger and a 338 win...They are not the best choices for DG but they'll do! tu2


What's the old saying, you can lead a horse to water ....


2020



This 2400 fps max load Lott you are speaking of Ray, is that a SAAMI Lott or the Lott "that Jack built"? Somehow, I think you haven't made the connection that there are 2 different Lotts to consider in this discussion.
 
Posts: 8149 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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