THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM BIG BORE FORUMS

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Big Bores    Terminal Bullet Performance
Page 1 ... 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 ... 304

Moderators: GeorgeS
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Terminal Bullet Performance Login/Join
 
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
SB

Yes, that gun does look some familiar to me? LOL... Man the stock looks so good, I am now going to have to upgrade the rifle some! Hey guys, couple weeks ago SB asked if I had a M70 that would fit this stock? I forget details, but this is the first M70 I ever owned, and probably responsible for my loyalty and devotion to a Winchester M70. Nothing fancy, one of the early Classics that Winchester started back to in the very early 90s I think. This is an early version, as it still had a horrible stock on it. I had never changed the stock out. I shot 3 lions with the rifle back in 2000. Using a 400 gr Swift A Frame at the time at 2325 fps. Bill Hober of Swift, thought the Swift was a little too good a bullet for lion. He was correct, it was a VERY good bullet for lion, as this bullet and load hammered all three hard. Put all three of them in the dirt where they stood, so Bill was right! LOL...... I only paid $600 for this rifle originally. Bought it from a chap at a gun show from Florence SC. Nice fellow, had seen him at many gun shows for years, in fact was a teacher for one of the high schools. Later I asked Leslie at the Custom Shop if she could get a floor plate engraved for me with the Big Five Series Lion on it that they had done at the time. Of course she agreed, but this is not a Big Five Series floor plate, nor does it say Big 5 anywhere. I had never had the rifle blued, or sights changed, nothing, just as it was when I was in the field with it. Of course, it's been retired for many years now.

I am not so sure I will let SB have this stock back? Looks pretty sharp to me!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Simply stunning, beautiful stock.

Damn shame that rifle wont ever go hunting again. stir

SSR
 
Posts: 6725 | Location: central Texas | Registered: 05 August 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cross L:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bush:
quote:
Originally posted by someoldguy:

I had posted this in the political forum but didn't get any feedback, so I'll put it her



Why the hell would you put this in the terminal bullet performance thread?


I started a mild thread hijack by posting the lead warning from a box of Cast Bullets. SOG wasnt far out of that because of the response from Cali about that moronic warning.

Rather rude way to jump SOG and he didnt start the highjack.

SSR



Dave's kinda slow. After a while you get used to waiting for him to catch up or just skim over his "posts".

Big Grin
 
Posts: 13301 | Location: On the Couch with West Coast Cool | Registered: 20 June 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Michael,
The stock is Bastogne Walnut, very low comb such as is only suitable for low mounted iron sights like this rifle. I was sorta hoping you might keep it.

SB
 
Posts: 224 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of someoldguy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Macifej:
quote:
Originally posted by Cross L:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bush:
quote:
Originally posted by someoldguy:

I had posted this in the political forum but didn't get any feedback, so I'll put it her



Dave's kinda slow. After a while you get used to waiting for him to catch up or just skim over his "posts".

Big Grin
Why the hell would you put this in the terminal bullet performance thread?


I started a mild thread hijack by posting the lead warning from a box of Cast Bullets. SOG wasnt far out of that because of the response from Cali about that moronic warning.

Rather rude way to jump SOG and he didnt start the highjack.

SSR


Yeah, I figured he wasn't quite up to speed. Being occasionally off-topic doesn't seem to be a problem amongst us regulars here. Big Grin


_________________________

Glenn

 
Posts: 942 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 16 July 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockbroker:
Michael,
The stock is Bastogne Walnut, very low comb such as is only suitable for low mounted iron sights like this rifle. I was sorta hoping you might keep it.

SB




SB

Might as well HOPE that forend is thin? LOL----- Would be a SHAME to have to remove all that Wonderful Checkering. By the way, I do like that pattern! Very nice. Maybe do something like that to all those 3 Bastogne blanks I have coming to you. Corbin is either going to drop those by here this weekend or this coming week. I will get them to you ASAP. I am keeping the bastogne for myself if it is as good as Corbin says it is, and I have little doubt. I think I will fit to some of my favorite rifles I have currently, if it turns out as good as I think it should. Then we have to come up with at least a couple more, or three super nice English XXX or maybe better for some projects I am getting ready to work on.

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
Yeah, I figured he wasn't quite up to speed. Being occasionally off-topic doesn't seem to be a problem amongst us regulars here. Big Grin




Oh, Dave is a regular as well, I am sure all is well! I sometimes take us off topic too. Even now with the stocks and all, not exactly terminals. But, I did work in the bullets I used with that rifle, that count?

Of course some of the off topic issues are my fault being out of commission here as well. Two weeks today! My AR docs say 6 for heavy work. Maybe next week some very light recoil work? My AR docs are correct however, I can tell you I am not fit for duty with heavy recoil right now. Feel fine, no issues, but I can feel that it is a little tender in the throat area. So............

We have done a lot more than just terminals here on the thread as well, such as the barrel strain work and some other research. Probably should sometimes start another more on topic thread, but sometimes it's just easier to post it here and continue. I was in the process of doing a "primer test" but only got 1/3 of the way finished with it! It has some really neat results that I actually did not expect, at least 1/3 of the way through!

Man I have to say, just hard to get up any "Get up and Go" energy. Maybe I just go load some test work up? Maybe I just go test some 22 long rifle or something? BORING! 223? BORING! 6.5? BORING! Gees! 45 ACP? BORING! Oh well..............

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Hey SB

You see posting here is CrossL? That XX Claro I sent you to be shortened belongs to Cross! How about it? I think he wanted that shortened to about an 8 inch LOP??? rotflmo

That should be about ready?

Where is my 500 MDM THIN English??????

I am sending you out some 458 CEB BBW#13 400/370 and 325/295s, and I was going to send you what else? Oh, that laminated stock to fish scale like 450NE 458 B&M laminated, that's right, nearly forgot! All the guys here liked the fish scale, especially on the laminated stock.

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Anyone that would ASK for fishscale on a classic hardwood stock...
My mistake on the 8" LOP; I think we made it 6.5"...
The Bastogne low comb rails...can you say 6X6?
You told me to make it like it was mine after all.

SB
 
Posts: 224 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Remind CROSS we butchered a pre-existing stock to make his, when we SHOULD have started over and made it right to begin with. Think, burnt out single-wide house trailer, for $200K remodeling project and you'll catch my drift.

SB
 
Posts: 224 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
SB

Think of this one as my pre production model, when I know exactly what works for me then we can have fun. None of that silly foreend tip and gripcapbuttcover stuff, just real good wood , real thin with hand checkering.

did i see on your
ai blog that yall have done something similar to a Win Featherweight profile?

SSR
 
Posts: 6725 | Location: central Texas | Registered: 05 August 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Michael got you if you think it has hand checkering.
Win F'Weight relates mostly to proportioning for the thin barrel, rather than the bulk of the body of the stock.

We'll be happy (thrilled, no really) to build the "real thing" after you decide about the silly frilly 'gripcapbuttcover foreendtip stuff', as you put it.

SB
 
Posts: 224 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
Michael got you if you think it has hand checkering.



What was hand checkering? I know fish scale is not. The bastogne? That's hand!

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
My mistake.
The short, plain, 'burnt out singlewide' that we've just finished altering has standard laser checkering.

SB
 
Posts: 224 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
dancing

If Stockbroker and Michael are running it down it must be nicer wood than I thought. Cant wait

tu2 clap

PS Mchael -my 335grs came in, hope to get some loaded this weekend. they look nice, very similar in profile to
bbw#13 so I think they will feed well. Will report as soon as I get some down range. Then will need to get some chrono'd Wink

SSR
 
Posts: 6725 | Location: central Texas | Registered: 05 August 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Some thoughts on a rainy day.

Some time ago, a rather large animal deceided that Michael was in the way and took action accordingly. Michael won but started thinking about a nice handling rifle with sufficient capability to stop a dangerous animal in those types of situations; a sort of DG carbine. That led to three things, the B&M family of cartridges, the B&M family of guns and bullets, both solids and noncoms, primarily from CBE and NF and a couple of others, all based on the WS action 70 and a shortened Rem Mag shell.

In looking at the line up, several questions come to mind. What are the 500 MDM and 9.3 B&M doing in the family? The 9.3 is easy, that's Michael's medium caliber; but the 500 MDM is a a different beast. It would seem to challenge the notion that the WS length action is necessary for the DG Carbine as it is a full length cartridge. Looking at dimensions of actions, I would be hard put to defend the need for the WS length action in order to build a DG Carbine. Can a short barreled rifle, 18 to 20 inches, be made up into a DG carbine regardless of the length of the action? I think so. By the way, I like the DG carbine concept.

Those wonderful bullets open the possibility of using available calibers, not wildcats, to make up a DG carbine!

Second, why the 50 caliber as a starting point? I have read that many PH's claim that the 50 hits harder. By that I take them to mean that the target animal's visible reaction to being hit by a 50 is much more than to being hit by smaller calibers, even the 45. That's one I'd like to be able to confirm, but I can't think of a test means. Any ideas anyone? coffee
 
Posts: 404 | Registered: 08 May 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
If Stockbroker and Michael are running it down it must be nicer wood than I thought. Cant wait


Cross L,
Don't hold your breath, the stock is simply awful no matter how high the gremlins jump. As to can't wait, well..you're just gonna hafta I reckon.

SB
 
Posts: 224 | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Hey Mike...the 577 boolits arrived today. Awesome! The 750gr BBW 13 solids are magnificent, and the Non-Cons....I could use those for ashtrays until I load them up! Thanks!

PS: I'm not loading any until you bill me for them!!!
 
Posts: 19556 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Michael, the T-Rex dies and cases should be here next week. I'll see what these things go with a fistful of RL 19.

PS: Welcome to page 152 of the "Michael's thread that wouldn't end".
 
Posts: 19556 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Michael, the T-Rex dies and cases should be here next week. I'll see what these things go with a fistful of RL 19.

PS: Welcome to page 152 of the "Michael's thread that wouldn't end".



Biebs

Sorta like the "NeverEnding Story" HEH,,,,,,,,

Oh I can't wait for you to report on those .585s!


quote:
Hey Mike...the 577 boolits arrived today. Awesome! The 750gr BBW 13 solids are magnificent, and the Non-Cons....I could use those for ashtrays until I load them up! Thanks!


No thanks needed, they are incredible. I love them, have shelves full of them right now! Need to empty those shelves so I can get some more! HEH....


quote:
PS: I'm not loading any until you bill me for them!!!



Yeah, well go ahead and shoot those up, see if they are worth a damn, then I will send some more with the invoice. Little behind on things like that, no worries!



IBT

I love the discussion you brought up, I am going to transfer that over to the B&M thread, as it is more related to that, and then write a small handbook on my take of what you have to say, along with some photos and data! Hows that work for ya? We will go to the B&M thread for that.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
IBT,

Never having been to Africa I can only answer from an American perspective-

I had long liked Carbine length
rifles .Having used 264 WM and 338 WM's for years when i got interested in a DG rifle I was wonderins like alot of us If I needed that belt. If you took the whole cartrigde out to a similar dia you are useing magazine space more efficintly. Before I found The B&M's here I had decided on a 416 Taylor with a 20 in barrel.

What this site, Michael , and B&M offer to me is a concept, a package of Catridge, rifle and now bullets that in effect took my dreams and ideas and made them concrete. This being done by people with enormous experience where as all I have is theory.

I am buying into the NON-CON theory,that states that a properly design projectile, made new tech, lets us use lighter than traditional bullet weights. In solids at when you start talking penetration in feet as opposed to inches
I cann't see where there will be a difference in a 416 cal hole made by a 350 gr slug as opposed to a 400 gr.

I am a bit more sceptical about the BBW#13 hollowpoints but at worst you have a hell of a good solid if it doesnt petal as expected.

I love tthe look and feel of a Pre-64 M 70 and an Enlish stalking Rigby. But there is no argueing , carbines have advantages.
 
Posts: 6725 | Location: central Texas | Registered: 05 August 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of 416Tanzan
posted Hide Post
quote:
CrossL:
I am buying into the NON-CON theory,that states that a properly design projectile, made new tech, lets us use lighter than traditional bullet weights. In solids at when you start talking penetration in feet as opposed to inches
I cann't see where there will be a difference in a 416 cal hole made by a 350 gr slug as opposed to a 400 gr.


Although .416" is still .416", it is possible that a lighter, faster solid might displace the wound channel slightly more. I've seen some anecdotal comments on this and wonder if this thread will get around to testing that. It might need more precise testing media than witness cards, though.

I will be happy to pound a buffalo later this year with a 350 grain, .416" solid at 2800fps muzzle.
But I'm hoping that the critter will already be dead from the first shot.

we will stay tuned.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4251 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Dave Bush
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cross L:

What this site, Michael , and B&M offer to me is a concept, a package of Catridge, rifle



Exactly! tu2


Dave
DRSS
Chapuis 9.3X74
Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL
Krieghoff 500/.416 NE
Krieghoff 500 NE

"Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer"

"If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition).
 
Posts: 3728 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 26 November 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
I am buying into the NON-CON theory,that states that a properly design projectile, made new tech, lets us use lighter than traditional bullet weights. In solids at when you start talking penetration in feet as opposed to inches
I cann't see where there will be a difference in a 416 cal hole made by a 350 gr slug as opposed to a 400 gr.



I am buying the NonCon theory as well. I got a little dose of how the NonCons work on those big Asiatic buffalo in Australia. That copper 470 that shears at 2400 fps, in .500. The minute I set foot on Australian soil, my old teachings about heavy for caliber bullets started creeping in! I had done the test work, in my logical mind I knew the 470 .500 caliber bullet was going to do the job. But none the less, I was thinking that soon as I returned I was going to have JD get David to make some 500 or 510 gr bullets for that capacity in the 500 MDM. This was before I shot the first buffalo at 15 yds with it! At the shot, the old buffalo dropped in his tracks, almost before he hit the ground I busted him with a solid. The 470 sheared of course, and passed all the way through the buffalo. Of course the solid did. I never considered a heavier bullet again. 12 more buffalo reacting the same way, nahhh, you are better with a lighter, and using that velocity. Even with the solids. North Fork Solids and CEB Solids LIKE velocity a lot. More velocity, deeper penetration, and straight! While some profiles do not react to velocity as well. Take the barnes banded, it can make gains with velocity, but not to the point that the North Forks and BBW#13 does. I believe that there is more trauma inflicted with the extra velocity with the North Fork and BBW#13 solids. That is a little harder to measure in the field, other than just watching reaction of the animal, in particular buffalo. In the test medium, moving up in velocity does create more trauma to the test medium, no doubt of that. And it can be measured fairly effectively with the witness cards. But, you are correct, after that first initial hit, it's a hole from that point on.

Yes, I was totally amazed at the amount of penetration the BBW#13 HPs gave if the velocity was too low to shear! And straight as well?

CrossL, take that Rigby to the field on a 10 day hunt. First 5 days, carry the Rigby every step of the way. Next 5 days, carry the 416 B&M. I bet the second trip, the Rigby stays at home! LOL.,...........

Tanz

I am counting on you busting a buffalo with the ultra high velocity BBW#13s NonCons and Solids I managed to get to you! I have a feeling that your buffalo is going to explode like a prairie dog with a high velocity CEB BBW#13 NonCon! LOL,,,,,,, Ok skin is too thick for that I know, but look for ripples along the side, that is always incredible to see!


Thanks Dave! Spot on, both CrossL and yourself!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:


Although .416" is still .416", it is possible that a lighter, faster solid might displace the wound channel slightly more. I've seen some anecdotal comments on this and wonder if this thread will get around to testing that. It might need more precise testing media than witness cards, though.



we will stay tuned.


Tanzan

My point is that the 350 will be just as good ,if not better, than traditional loads . Hence we can reduce recoil or increase velocity as we choose.

The record seems to be it doesnt get much better than a 416/400gr at 2150--so lighter(350) at that velocity is less recoil. Lighter at 2500-2800 -more impact? more penetration? cant be worse because its already tested.

We , My Friends, live in a Golden Age of Rifles and Ballistics.

SSR
 
Posts: 6725 | Location: central Texas | Registered: 05 August 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Michael, the T-Rex dies and cases should be here next week. I'll see what these things go with a fistful of RL 19.

PS: Welcome to page 152 of the "Michael's thread that wouldn't end".



Biebs

Sorta like the "NeverEnding Story" HEH,,,,,,,,

Oh I can't wait for you to report on those .585s!


quote:
Hey Mike...the 577 boolits arrived today. Awesome! The 750gr BBW 13 solids are magnificent, and the Non-Cons....I could use those for ashtrays until I load them up! Thanks!


No thanks needed, they are incredible. I love them, have shelves full of them right now! Need to empty those shelves so I can get some more! HEH....


quote:
PS: I'm not loading any until you bill me for them!!!



Yeah, well go ahead and shoot those up, see if they are worth a damn, then I will send some more with the invoice. Little behind on things like that, no worries!



IBT

I love the discussion you brought up, I am going to transfer that over to the B&M thread, as it is more related to that, and then write a small handbook on my take of what you have to say, along with some photos and data! Hows that work for ya? We will go to the B&M thread for that.

Michael


Works for me

IBT coffee
 
Posts: 404 | Registered: 08 May 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
The record seems to be it doesnt get much better than a 416/400gr at 2150--so lighter(350) at that velocity is less recoil. Lighter at 2500-2800 -more impact? more penetration? cant be worse because its already tested.




CrossL

When I did the 416 B&M I had two goals in mind. First I looked at the 416 B&M as being a lion/bear rifle superb. Back then, I had one bullet I was very fond of, had used it in Tanzania in a 416 Remington M70 with extreme success, 340 gr Woodleigh! A hammer at 2550 fps in the remington case, but a bit over velocity by a tad. The 416 B&M with this bullet at 2400-2450 fps would be perfect for thin skinned duty. That was my goal. Well it was easy to make that goal, as the 416 B&M would run that bullet up to 2500 fps at 60000 psi. So it's not an issue to drop down to 2400-2450 fps at all.

A secondary goal, at that time with the knowledge I had at that time, was a 400 gr solid, at 2150 fps! A meager goal, but I was quite sure with all the hubbub of other close calibers just being superb at that same velocity, I figured the 416 B&M with at that would be just dandy. That again, easy goal and extremely pleasant to shoot as well, at low pressure. I could easy attain up to 2300 fps and be under pressure, with WW 748 and the various 400s. Right now, 2320 fps with the new 400 CEB BBW#13 at 61000 psi. Very Safe load. Damned good penetration as well. But, I discovered the 350 Solids, and consider them like the 450 Solids in the various 458s--Superb! And then the instability issue in 416 caliber with 400s comes into play as well, although the BBW#13 can overcome most of that at 1:14 twist rates! As well as the North Fork. But, I will most likely stay with the various 350s as I think they will do anything you need to do with a 416 caliber rifle. I have to admit however, I do really like that 400 BBW#13!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
PS Mchael -my 335grs came in, hope to get some loaded this weekend. they look nice, very similar in profile to
bbw#13 so I think they will feed well. Will report as soon as I get some down range. Then will need to get some chrono'd



Oh yes, I am interested in that as well. For chrono, send me a few bullets, not many, 5-6 or so. I will get a can of trail boss and do the same load you have, chrono them for you.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Biebs

Page 153!

animal


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
Delving into minimums and maximums it would be interesting to see the terminal performance of caliber length center of crimp to base solids and non con bullets to maximize velocity, wound channel and get in the range of 30" to 40" of nominal penetration of softs. For example a nominal .8" center of crimp grove to tip and .416" neck seating depth to give the 416 a 1.216" OAL. The 400 grain 458 #13 is almost this concept. A 400 grain BBW 13 in a 458 Win Mag adds valuable case capacity and maybe lethality? Shooting 458 370 grain non con at 2400 and 400 solid at 2350.
Any thoughts?


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27537 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
[QUOTE]Biebs

Page 153!


And many more to follow!
 
Posts: 19556 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
The 400 grain 458 #13 is almost this concept. A 400 grain BBW 13 in a 458 Win Mag adds valuable case capacity and maybe lethality? Shooting 458 370 grain non con at 2400 and 400 solid at 2350.
Any thoughts?




I am still thinking! LOL......

I have some loaded now in the 458 B&M to check POI---waiting on Dr Orders that might allow me to sort them out! I want to test these as well SOON---- I might try some very low velocity loads next week and use PROTECTION-- Just to check shear at low velocity.

Yes, I think the pair you mention will be hammers!


I was talking to Dan at CEB the other day. It seems he has a run of those 420 and 450 .458 NonCons with the smaller cavity that he is going to DISCOUNT to the same price as the solids to move them out, in favor of the new larger cavity for lower velocity shear. You guys must remember, these still shear at 1950 fps and up. For you guys with higher capacity 458 cartridges, 458 Lott +, these will do some extreme work for you, keeping impact velocity above say 2000 fps! Which even in the Lott would mean 125 yds, 150 yd impacts-! And, at worst case scenario with NO shear--it acts like a BBW#13 Solid, and nothing wrong with that. Just FYI, might want to give CEB a call and get the discounted price! Very excellent bullets to shoot and work up loads for also.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Or my 460 Guns & Ammo, or 450 Dakota ???
 
Posts: 19556 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Or my 460 Guns & Ammo, or 450 Dakota ???


Absolutely Correct!


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Guys, how about going to the bastogne thread here;

http://forums.accuratereloadin...881054451#6881054451


Give me a vote if you are lurking about!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Dave Bush
posted Hide Post
Michael:

I just bought a new Hornady load manual. Under the description for the .338 RCM the you will find the following language:

"The "Compact Magnum" concept was devised by hunters looking for rifles that delivered conventional magnum performance but in a well balanced, quick handling package."

I think think the "hunters" that Hornady is referring to are you and Jeff. Wink

I have had a chance now to shoot my .338 RCM with both 210 and 225 grain bullets. I was concerned about the recoil but you and Jeff were right. The reduced powder charge more than offsets the light weight. The recoil is nothing to be concerned with. Kudos to you guys. You, Jeff, and now Hornady and Ruger have done a hell of a thing here. Hornady and Ruger have shown that they get it with their slick handling little rifles with a 20 inch barrels. Rock on boys! tu2


Dave
DRSS
Chapuis 9.3X74
Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL
Krieghoff 500/.416 NE
Krieghoff 500 NE

"Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer"

"If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition).
 
Posts: 3728 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 26 November 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Dave

quote:
Michael:

I just bought a new Hornady load manual. Under the description for the .338 RCM the you will find the following language:

"The "Compact Magnum" concept was devised by hunters looking for rifles that delivered conventional magnum performance but in a well balanced, quick handling package."

I think think the "hunters" that Hornady is referring to are you and Jeff.



Well, I don't know about all that? I suppose it is very possible! I know Jeffe has close ties with Hornady! I know that JD Jones has close ties with Steve Hornady, and speaks to them on a regular basis! I would not be surprised if some "Concepts" leaked through in some areas. It was a year maybe two years after the B&Ms came on that Ruger and Hornady hit the market with the 375 Ruger, followed by the 416 of course with the 20 inch barrels. So who knows? Maybe it was just a concept that came into it's own?

Dave, I think you are fine chap! For some that might not recall, not all that long ago Dave thought I was a shoe in nominee for the "looney Bin"! LOL.... Short rifles, big bores and such! Well, I am not saying he is totally wrong on that point at all, I may very well be just that! However, today, Dave understands it seems! After a few trips out to the field with that new 338 RCM, it will really come to light then!

Dave, thank you greatly for the confidence and the mighty kind words, much appreciated! Jeffe and I just do what we do, what else can we do?

Thanks
Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of michael458
posted Hide Post
Oh, it is the day I suppose!

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL!

Soon as my girls rise out of the bed, that will be all for me, I think they have my day planned out completely! So, best get this in for you this morning, a little "Easter Test Work" done yesterday!

Now, I know I am supposed to be on "Medical Leave"! But we have some important work that is lagging, and it just so happens that it is very low velocity, low recoil work, that I felt like I was ready for! I used "PROTECTION", you might say as well. I used the famous "recoil sling" devised by our very own SRose, along with getting very padded up.

The mission? Find the point at which the new 295, 370, and 420 CEB BBW#13 Brass NonCon HPs would not shear at and what the lowest velocity shear that I could get with them. In particular since two of these are supposed to work with 45/70 and the Marlin rifles! So low velocity impact and shear is important with that cartridge!

I felt ZERO recoil during these tests! I can tell you now, a sneeze and a cough caused me great stress, far more than shooting my 458 B&M and these low velocity loads. I concur, not yet ready for serious work, or heavy recoil, but these were zero issues, no recoil. In fact on many I barely touched my shoulder at all. Yes goes against the rules for sure, but the recoil sling held the rifle firmly for me during these tests.

OK. Let us begin with the 295 BBW#13 NonCon HP.

First run out was very low velocity and it did not shear!



As you can see, on the one to the right, it wanted to try and shear, but just could not get it at a 1540 fps impact.

Going up in velocity a step to a 1670 fps impact we for sure found the lower end of shear. As you see, one bullet did shear, the other tried by loosing one petal, but continued on, this velocity is the break point no doubt. I would say that 1700 fps impact is as low as you can expect the blades to shear. No lower with the 295 BBW#13 NonCon.





Now I run some quick numbers on this bullet. I have to pick a point. I don't know YET what velocity this bullet can be run in 45/70. This is something we need to look at later. But IF we can run this bullet to 2100 fps at the muzzle--we get impact of 1750 fps at 125 yards. So our effective shear range on this bullet is out to 125 yards, starting at 2100 fps at the muzzle. Of course any increased muzzle velocity also increases our effective shear range.

Back in the day I had no issues getting 300s to 2050 fps in 18 inch Marlins--at this muzzle velocity we are looking at max effective shear range of 100 yds + or - a bit.


In any other 45/70s such as the 1886s and 1885s, it is not hard to achieve higher velocity.

Again, worst case scenario is no shear, and deeper penetration?


Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Happy Easter,

Go admire those news easter dresses,

tu2 Wink

SSR
 
Posts: 6725 | Location: central Texas | Registered: 05 August 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of CCMDoc
posted Hide Post
Happy Easter Michael to you, your family and everyone on the Forum who celebrates.

I'll avoid stating the obvious because it's like horse even though I know that this little experiment is like sitting on a roller coaster at the peak of the ride ...

Good to see that you have yet another projectile to be used in the 45/70 for African Dangerous Game. clap

Maybe with it I will leave my double and bolts home and just take my Marlin Guide Gun for elephnt and Cape buffalo sofa


NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003
STILL waiting for my Taksdale double or a refund

Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow
 
Posts: 3430 | Location: In the Shadow of Griffin&Howe | Registered: 24 November 2007Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 ... 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 ... 304 
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Big Bores    Terminal Bullet Performance

Copyright December 1997-2022 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia