RIP

You are MOST welcome for the wide 4 band bullets--remember, doing me a favor getting them off my shelves! Yes, most likely they will shoot dandy, seated out without much jump, they actually shoot very well in the 500 MDM---piss poor in the 50 B&M. Just bullet jump is all, only one band to straighten the bullet upon entry, is not enough! Seat tight to bore, good to go.

quote:

M70 bolt face is plenty big enough for the Rigby/Lapua rim.
The M70 box does not have to be lengthened for Lapua Cats,

Now this is good--and may have great bearing on some of the future projects here. I still have 3-4 of those RUM guns set aside for future 500 MDMs--I am sure I can spare one for special projects! What I am VERY VERY interested in, retaining that cartridge down! Do keep us posted on that! Two down is plenty for what I am interested in.


Brian is a dandy when it comes to "Retaining" the B&Ms. We don't have much issue until we get to the 458 and the 50 B&M. Which we know those rifles designed to retain WSMs with those tiny little 150-180 gr bullets, now we introduce 450-500 gr bullets in the nose, nose likes to pop up without some "Retain" work. Brian is excellent with this, and knows MY specs, which is to slam hell of of them to make sure they hold! I cut them no slack at all!

OK, that 420 CEB BBW#13 HP is about 25 fps slower in your rifle than in my 20 inch guns, not a lot, but pressure low at 52000 with 77/AA 2520. I am mashing another gr of AA 2520, 78 grs, and upping the velocity to 2328 fps in 20 inches, and 2254 in 18 inches. Yes, compressed heavy no doubt. I used 78 in Australia, daytime temps to 95 plus, was never an issue at all, with the 450 Swifts at the time, and the 450 Barnes banded. 78/AA 2520 gives 59000 with the 420. Using 77/AA 2520 with the 450 CEB BBW#13 Solid gives me 2250 fps at 60000 in 20 inches, and a touch over 2200 in 18 inches. These will be two of the loads I am taking to Africa in that 18 inch gun of mine. I get about the same, the 420 about 1/2 inch higher than the 450 at 50 yds. I am getting the same sort of accuracy as well with them--extremely dependable and consistent. Probably that longer throat giving slightly less velocity, but not enough to make a difference in anything, my opinion. Of no consequence. Very excellent shooting!

When I first started with the 458 B&m and heavier bullets I was using RL 10X. It was getting me up to 2170 or so with 450s, but I don't think I ever put them on the strain gages? Or I can't find my data this morning? When I tried AA 2520 as pure chance, everything started happening, and getting same case expansion, but more velocity, so I stuck with AA 2520. I think maybe I should look at RL 10X again and put some thru the strain gage as well. There are always avenues to explore, and improvements to be made, very possible the Benchmark might do well? All we can do is try? But I am probably going to wait on that until I return.

As for the NF, I get about the same results myself. I am going to check POI for the 450 North Fork Bonded, as I would like to try that out in Africa too.

Right now in my 458 B&M English, I have the following with the same POI at 50 yds, or very close, 420 CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon--450 CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon--450 CEB BBW#13 Solid--480 CEB BBW#13 Solid--400 North Fork Bonded(1 inch high from 420 CEB)--and I think the North Fork 450 Bonded will fall in place. The only one I don't think I will take any of is the 450 CEB BBW#13 HP--I intend to use the 420 gr. Will be taking some of all the rest, leaning heavy on the 420 NonCon and 450 BBW#13 Solid. 2 months out as of today!

Michael

Some test work done over the weekend by our very own Mike70560 with the .474 CEB BBW#13s. I got photos, but no details much. Hopefully Mike can get that posted for us in a day or so. Looks like that caliber is GTG (Good To Go) even with some low velocity impacts!




Michael

Here are some details with no photos.

Same set-up as before. 12" wet newsprint, 2" by 6" board, 58" wet newsprint, another set of 2" by 6" bullets at the back of the box. box at 33' from muzzle.

Fired two shots from my 375 H&H. Average impact velocity 2495. Straight as an arrow, stuck in the 2 by 6 at the back of the box.

Fired two more solids from my 470 Nitro. Velocity was a little over 2000 FPS (error on chrono). Both of these bullets were stuck in wood at the back of the box.

All four were straight as an arrow.

They also regulate well in my Kreighoff plus the Non Cons shoot to the same point of impact.

Non Cons did shear at low velocity (1972, 1687). I need to measure and check a couple of things so the rest of the story will wait until this afternoon.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Here are some details with no photos.

Same set-up as before. 12" wet newsprint, 2" by 6" board, 58" wet newsprint, another set of 2" by 6" bullets at the back of the box. box at 33' from muzzle.

Fired two shots from my 375 H&H. Average impact velocity 2495. Straight as an arrow, stuck in the 2 by 6 at the back of the box.

Fired two more solids from my 470 Nitro. Velocity was a little over 2000 FPS (error on chrono). Both of these bullets were stuck in wood at the back of the box.

All four were straight as an arrow.

They also regulate well in my Kreighoff plus the Non Cons shoot to the same point of impact.

Non Cons did shear at low velocity (1972, 1687). I need to measure and check a couple of things so the rest of the story will wait until this afternoon.

Heh Heh!

??????

quote:

Back to the .458 B&M:
Excellent rifle! Brian Alberts made mine feed those FNs to perfection, and there is no worry about any porpoising, it retains the .458 B&M cartridges, fail-proof, faultless.

RIP,

Needs a Nice Wooden stock to match it's stellar performance...ever heard of Accurate Innovations?

(Shameless Plug, but worth mentioning...)

SB

quote:

Originally posted by Stockbroker:

quote:

Back to the .458 B&M:
Excellent rifle! Brian Alberts made mine feed those FNs to perfection, and there is no worry about any porpoising, it retains the .458 B&M cartridges, fail-proof, faultless.

RIP,

Needs a Nice Wooden stock to match it's stellar performance...ever heard of Accurate Innovations?

(Shameless Plug, but worth mentioning...)

SB

Have a Ultimate stock on my 416 B&M axiously awaiting the arrival of the AI stock for it. Will give a comparitive report when it gets in.




SSR

from Stockbroker

quote:

RIP,

Needs a Nice Wooden stock to match it's stellar performance...ever heard of Accurate Innovations?

Accurate Innovations have been mentioned several times in this thread. there was a video showing one of Michael's rifles being fired by a couple of daughters of the AI president. They are beautiful, sturdy stocks, but they would double the price of my guns.

I was impressed with the simplicity of the Winchester "Shadow" stock. If I ever get a Hawkeye Alaskan, I would probably keep the "ugly" Hogue. I just hunt with a rifle, and don't mind ugly. It's the bullets that have to be beautiful, and the accuracy of the rifle.

Hi Stockbroker

Welcome to AR--And to the Terminal Performance Thread, to the best of my knowledge, the biggest, most viewed thread in the history of AR. In addition, and even far more important a gathering of like minded, big bore enthusiasts, and a really great group of fellows!

Yes, there is a rumor that Accurate Innovations can do a pretty good stock these days! Of course with some guidance from someone I know, they are getting a hell of a lot better, especially slimming up forends and such! Speaking of which I have a stock there now, that is supposed to be finished by now, or maybe LAST week with a bit of slimming up in the front! And on top of that, probably will send a couple more up for some slimming and then we will be all caught up with old projects, and can start on some new projects. I have a plan of building something 5 to 10 rifles this year, but late getting started. I think AI must pick out some really nice blanks for me, put them to the side.

I already sent up a super nice blank to them a couple weeks ago! HEH HEH HEH..........



Well boys, I am a little out of sorts for the next week or so it seems!


What the hell happened here? Well, this was my wife's explanation!

quote:

That is what will happen when you mess with an African female animal. Most aggressive species in the world.

I can type, but cannot speak so well. All telephones are off, and sitting in the big chair on the laptop, chewing Tylox! YIPPIE.......

Michael

DAMN---That's just plain UGLY! Whew, glad I don't have to look at that all the time!

M

416Tanzan

I have an ultimate on my 416 and like it very much. It has a 13.25 LOP and seems very sturdy. will use it on many occasions, but you have to admit that a nice wood stock is nice also. The other thing is that an AI will add about .75 lb and sometimes the added weight is nice. So I am going for both.

SSR

Michael,

Condolences and wishes for a quick recovery

(For HER sake)

SSR

Michael,

What's with the head bandage - looks like too much penetration from the neck entry wound!
Hope you're 100% soon,

Mike

Michael, I though this was a "minor" procedure. Here is to a speedy recovery my friend

I told Michael NOT to use JB Weld to hold the buns to the patty and that it is not the "special sauce" McD uses but did he listen ...

Get well and take it easy - really!

quote:

What the hell happened here? Well, this was my wife's explanation!

quote:

quote:
That is what will happen when you mess with an African female animal. Most aggressive species in the world.

I can type, but cannot speak so well. All telephones are off, and sitting in the big chair on the laptop, chewing Tylox! YIPPIE.......

Michael

Dang Michael!! Well that explains the head bandage; guess she was still a little ruffled over your response to her April fool's joke! Take care and get well soon...But remember…PLEASE MAMA ALWAYS!!!

quote:

What's with the head bandage - looks like too much penetration from the neck entry wound!

HEH HEH

Well, remember my 1 Inch 4000 gr BBW#13? Remember my response to the April Fools wifey pulled on me? Now put a 4000 gr BBW#13 along with that response, what does that add up to? Wap in the back of the head is what! LOL

Ouch!

I thought JB Weld and Duct Tape could fix about anything! Well, maybe so, with the help of some 500 mg Tylox, that's working out pretty good! Good Dope Will Give you Hope! I have lot's of HOPE right now!


Oh there are some benefits to these things, especially if you manipulate them just right! When Momma walks in, all the sudden you don't feel quite as good as you did before she came in. Little moan, groan, you know. Get a little sympathy, some love. I hit the jackpot just a little while ago--Momma gave Daddy a BATH! HEH HEH......

Oh, I must go now, she is walking back in, I think I feeling much worse now..........................

Work it for all its worth!

Those African females must be able to put up with a lot!

Get well soon Michael
You are too valuable

I hope you have a speedy recovery, Michael. Sorry this happened.

Sam

Yeah a fellow don't get this kind of opportunity much (thank goodness) so I will work it for what I can, milk it long as I can-HEH HEH HEH--at least with her! Now as for the rest of us, I have much work to do, and must get to the range as quickly as I can.......But I have to say that is not going to be as quickly as I planned on or I thought it seems!

Thanks Boomy and Glenn as well. Just a thing, it will sort itself out in a few days! Long as the meds last!

LOL



Now, big plan on terminals coming up. JWP stated to me the other day, "Hell, What's left to Test?" Well good point. We will always have a need to test all new bullets hitting our Big Bore market, and we don't always know when and where that is going to happen. I have a lot of NEW CEBs coming in by the end of next week. Many of these, if not all are going to be tested. We have some NonCons that we need to check low end shear velocity. So there is a lot of work coming in very soon.

I now have in hand CCMDocs Mighty 600 OK. He sent some bullets along with, several variety of solids! I am going to test all of them! Some I forgot what Doc told me they were, and I don't want to remember right now, as I don't wish to know. If I don't know, who or what, then I remain more objective. I see some problems with some of the bullets Doc sent down. My plan is to come up with a load that runs the 900s at around 2150 fps or so, not top end velocity, but a good working velocity. Test everything at that, see where they fall in at.

Then I want to drop velocity to 600 Nitro Velocity--or maybe even slightly lower and give the CEBs a good workout at these velocities as well.

So there is going to be a good bit of terminal work coming up.

Michael

Michael,

Let me know when you are well and want to shoot that 600OK. I'll try to break away and help.

Sam

Sam

For sure! Right now everything depends on how I feel tomorrow! Or the next day, or the next?

I figured to be shooting again by tomorrow---but today, that ain't gonna happen! Of course, I figured that 3 days ago! LOL..... Somehow reality has worked it's way into the equation!

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Sam

For sure! Right now everything depends on how I feel tomorrow! Or the next day, or the next?

I figured to be shooting again by tomorrow---but today, that ain't gonna happen! Of course, I figured that 3 days ago! LOL..... Somehow reality has worked it's way into the equation!

M

All you should be doing is
this:


and this:


But when you and Sam do get to play with the 600OK and the CEBs, I'm mighty interested in 2,000fps. That's what I'm hoping will regulate well in my 26" barrel 600NE which was regulated with Woodies that supposedly hit 1,950fps out of a 24" tube.

Now "BE GOOD OR BE GONE" - the motto of McSorley's Pub in NYC ...

Yes, I am trying to be "good". It's a chore.

I do agree with you. Initial tests we will start around 2100-2150 fps, test all the bullets you sent, along with CEB BBW#13s.

When that is run through, we drop velocity to 600 Nitro speeds. 1950-2000 fps. Then I want to drop a spot below that, maybe come in at 1750-1800 fps to see shear at low velocity with the NonCons. Will be a good test!

We did some work with 600 OK a couple years ago with Corbins rifle, but we did not have really good bullets then. At some point we ended up with some Barnes Banded, they did well.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Yes, I am trying to be "good". It's a chore.

I do agree with you. Initial tests we will start around 2100-2150 fps, test all the bullets you sent, along with CEB BBW#13s.

When that is run through, we drop velocity to 600 Nitro speeds. 1950-2000 fps. Then I want to drop a spot below that, maybe come in at 1750-1800 fps to see shear at low velocity with the NonCons. Will be a good test!

We did some work with 600 OK a couple years ago with Corbins rifle, but we did not have really good bullets then. At some point we ended up with some Barnes Banded, they did well.

Michael

Sounds like a good plan.

You had mentioned that you were were disappointed with the results in Corbin's bolt gun. What bullets did you try before hitting on the BBS (which I thought had GREAT penetration out of my 600OK)?

Doc

Corbin had some cast loads, not too good. We tested Woodleigh Softs, at a couple of different velocities, both low as I recall. Woodleigh FMJ, ugly bullet, penetrated straight, but not deep. And the Barnes Banded, it did very well as I recall. I don't think we ran anything much over 2100 fps, most less. Other than the Barnes, we really tested no serious solids.

Now with BBW #13s, it's a different ball game!

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Doc

Corbin had some cast loads, not too good. We tested Woodleigh Softs, at a couple of different velocities, both low as I recall. Woodleigh FMJ, ugly bullet, penetrated straight, but not deep. And the Barnes Banded, it did very well as I recall. I don't think we ran anything much over 2100 fps, most less. Other than the Barnes, we really tested no serious solids.

Now with BBW #13s, it's a different ball game!

M

Doc M,
Man In Black, Camelbak Unbottle ...
You are looking very tempting to vampires ... do not accept any piggyback rides from the undead ...
Keep some silver bullets handy until you get that sippee straw out of your neck, ASAP!
Just a day or two, eh?
So they finally closed that gill in your neck. Stuck with scuba gear now.
Get well soon!

Stockbroker:
I will be needing a Winchester M70 long action stock to fit a dropbox whenever I get the "floormetal" sorted out. Can you do that one?

RIP

Whew, I must go remove those photos! Bad Ugly! Of course I don't look any better this morning, but I feel better than I look! HEH.... Beating off the vampires for sure. Gill closed up now, no more underwater work without proper gear!

M

RIP,
We can, but let me know what you sort out for bottom metal.

Check me at info@accurateinnovations.com, or call at the office.

SB

Hello All,

Doc M, what ever you did to cause this illness, dont do it agian. I've personaly seen better looking Zombies.
I was checking out an AR-15 in 243wssm and got to thinking about the 458B&M Super Short.
It might just work.
What do you guys think?

PS, Somebody keep Doc M out of trouble...lol

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
RIP

Whew, I must go remove those photos! Bad Ugly! Of course I don't look any better this morning, but I feel better than I look! HEH.... Beating off the vampires for sure. Gill closed up now, no more underwater work without proper gear!

M

hope you feel better than you look, otherwise I expect an invite to a good Irish Wake.



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
RIP

Whew, I must go remove those photos! Bad Ugly! Of course I don't look any better this morning, but I feel better than I look! HEH.... Beating off the vampires for sure. Gill closed up now, no more underwater work without proper gear!

M

hope you feel better than you look, otherwise I expect an invite to a good Irish Wake.



SSR

I don't think a full recovery is gonna improve his looks. No wonder his wife administers regular beatings.

quote:

PS, Somebody keep Doc M out of trouble...lol

I have a hard enough time keeping myself out of trouble!

quote:

Get well soon!

Yes, blessings on a speedy recovery. And do check with the white-coat docs before putting a 600 OK near the neck thingy.

Phatman, good to hear from you. I have to say, the way I looked and felt the other day, I would have made an ugly zombie look good! Now I have all the drain tubes out, off my meds, and while I don't look much better, at least I am not in a drug induced haze any longer.

I am pretty sure that converting one of the ARs that came in the WSSMs would be an easy conversion to a 458 B&M. Talk to Brian at SSK, he can make that happen.

Cross and J! Have survived, and suspect that full recovery will improve looks somewhat, but don't ask for too much! While I believe in miracles, I don't often see them! HEH.... Beating every friday whether I need it or not, and not for what I did, but what I am going to do!

Tanz, yes, have only thought about shooting yesterday, in which I did confer with our real life "White-Coat Docs", right here, both to a man say, "No Shooting" at least for a short period of time. So for a couple weeks, minimum, maybe more depending, we are out of the shooting business around here. I will be trying to figure out something however so that we are not completely down and out of the game! But I do have some concerns about getting anything with any recoil around this neck thingy! Splitting that open would not be good I don't think! I have buffalo to hammer in less than two months now!

M

Michael458

quote:

So for a couple weeks, minimum, maybe more depending, we are out of the shooting business around here. I will be trying to figure out something however so that we are not completely down and out of the game! . . . Splitting that open would not be good I don't think! I have buffalo to hammer in less than two months now!

Good time to get all the records up to date and to examine the data. Maybe even get some one to do some analysis to see if there's something in the data that we're missing.

Anyway, please do keep up the postings. You've become part of our family and we'd hate to lose track of you even for a little while.

Patience is a great virtue of which I have none, except when I am under threat by the medical profession! Do what they say until they say go ahead. Then do what you say.

Remember that company that couldn't keep their nose on straight?

It looks like they are quietly coming around.

Under their website on:
Banded Solids & Solids

http://www.barnesbullets.com/p...rifle/banded-solids/

The picture is now of flat-nose solids. I thought I remembered seeing the new roundnose solids a couple of months ago. If so, then this would signal a positive move. The next step will be for Midway, Powder Valley, et al. to start making special orders for the FLAT nose.

IBT

Thanks so much. Much appreciated, the kind words. Yes, you guys are for sure part of the family, and being down and out for a bit, sorta feel like letting you guys down a bit on the ongoing projects and work to be done. Of course, patience is not a word in my vocabulary!

I have received excellent advice from two of the best I know, part of the family, right here, Doc RIP and CCMDoc! Both concur that I need to give it a break until properly healed so nothing tears apart. Actually this is a bit more than I expected, I really did expect to continue this week as normal, hardly a bump, but not so. Who better to get excellent advice from than our very own, that knows without doubt what we do here, and the stresses involved. So I am paying attention and doing what they say (almost anyway) HEH HEH.....



Tanz

quote:

Remember that company that couldn't keep their nose on straight?

That is funny, "can't keep their nose on straight" LOL

I ain't holding my breath. Hope you are correct, but I have doubts. Somehow someone at the top has a bug up the , and those at the top rule those in the field that know better! I am taking a wait and see what happens attitude, with contingencies and plans beyond whatever decision is final with "Them".

I know you, you are just happy they are making a high BC 350 416 that you can hammer long range with! So you have high hopes they will come around on other issues as well! LOL........

Michael

quote:

I know you, you are just happy they are making a high BC 350 416 that you can hammer long range with!

What can I say?
True as stated, guilty as charged.
.444 BC, 3900 foot pounds at 300 yards and 3300 foot pounds at 400 yards.

It's what happens after raising an 11yr old son to hunt oribi, cob, and hartebeest with a 270. We both like shooting across to the other end of a grassy opening, but only with a stable rest, anthill, tree, sticks, even butt and knees if the ground is clear.