quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
You know, I don't think I included any Woodleigh RN solid .620 bullets for the tests. I don't think I have any but if you think it would be valuable, I will get a box sent to you for play.

Might be allow us to address the historical reputation that the 600NE demonstrated "poor penetration".

I don't mind - it's your (I mean Sam's) shoulder

NO Woodleigh FMJ, but see Corbin and I tested those some time ago in his 600 OK. 41 inches before veering off course. Velocity was 1855 fps. So we already have that data, no need to repeat that.

I think we are good to go on that front.

M

Excelent results from the "mighty mouse" 458 SS!!! Exceeding the 450 Marlin in a tiny pop gun. Needs a bear or moose or more to be tested on. Asian buffalo?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Excelent results from the "mighty mouse" 458 SS!!! Exceeding the 450 Marlin in a tiny pop gun. Needs a bear or moose or more to be tested on. Asian buffalo?

No Worries Mate! Take a hint?

Boomy, wrong thread it seems, was talking about the 458 SS over on the B&M thread? This is 45/70 Double Rifle above us here? Lost?

Sam and I did not have time to do terminals with the 458 B&M and the 458 B&M Super Short yesterday, that is coming, maybe next week I think I can do it.

Did get a complete 45/70 test done with the Marlin Guide Gun and the new bullets however, will try and get that up by tomorrow. I have been swamped today.

NEW BULLETS CAME IN TODAY.

Enough to eat up TONS of Test Medium and months of test work I am sure. So many I can't even remember some of them;

New 9.3 Noncon HPs, new wider cavity
375 275 NonCons HPs new wide cavity
409 375 NonCons HPs new wide cavity
.474s 450 Solids/420 NonCons, 350 Solids, 325 NonCons? I think?
.500s lot's of them for the lever guns, and the 50 Super Short, I have to show you, forget exactly what 405/375? and more?

Not to mention there will be a whole pile of North Fork .474s coming very soon, and the new .500 450 North Fork Bonded Premium coming very soon. In fact I am hoping to get the 450 Loaded up for buffalo before I leave if North Fork gets off his tail end!!!!!

Michael

quote:

BIEBS---

Page 154!!!!!!

And who's counting!!!

The 45-70 double used in the tests was my Siace.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I have a good excuse, I am on medical leave, not even supposed to be shooting! LOL




Michael and my trusted sidekick Sam!

I think Michael shoots better on MEDS. He just about got me! He did beat me on one target but he turned the lights off on me! Glad he didn't post that target.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
He did beat me on one target but he turned the lights off on me!

Now that is a good one.

Seriously, ya think if I send you some very dilute atracurium you can shoot him up with it so he can't continue to do stupid (ok more stupid) things like shooting a lightweight 45/70?

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
I think Michael shoots better on MEDS. He just about got me! He did beat me on one target but he turned the lights off on me! Glad he didn't post that target.

It's a lot easier for me to out shoot Sam if he is shooting in the dark! I don't see anything wrong with that? Anyway, it was an accident, I really didn't mean to touch that light switch!




OK, maybe it was a training exercise, you know, low light shooting and all?

Michael

Yesterday CEB Order!

Yikes, better put some cinder blocks under that table!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Yesterday CEB Order!

Oh my!

I hope you had minions unload and stack all that.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
I hope you had minions unload and stack all that.

Nope, working it all alone! I unpacked by bullet, but I don't know where I am going to find any shelves to put them on????? Shelves are FULL right now! And by the time the NOrth Forks get here?????? Suppose I need to get the builders started!!!!!


OK I want to show you the same 400 CEB BBW#13 Solid fired from a Marlin Guide Gun, 45/70. But going to refresh memory, and post the double rifle again also;






Once again proves how the BBW#13 Likes velocity. I will be testing this bullet in the 458 B&M as well at 2400 fps, and we can see yet another increase at that point I am sure.

M

With this bullet the 45-70 is now an elephant gun!

You know I wanted this bullet, primary for the 458 B&M Super Short, but designed the nose to mouth so you guys could also use it in the 45/70 and in particular the Marlins, so I compromised with you on this on. I could use a longer nose, but I just seat for the super short down to the #2 band from the top and while it does not look as good, it's still just as effective.

Part of the delivery yesterday there are several new .500s, for both the lever action 50 B&M AK and the 50 B&M Super Short as well! The lever bullets of course, will work in the Marlins that are chambered in 50 B&M AK. One is a wonderful 400 gr CEB BBW#13 Solid--and of course, all solids have matching NonCons!

This will warrent another big Pressure trace tests in all the .500s, and of course, terminals to go along with.

Sam and I are making a big plan for next year in Australia. Not sure what he has decided, but we will be 4 shooters as both my boys are coming along too. I know the MDM bunch will be sporting Super Shorts. 50--475--and 458!

Michael

You know me I'll be taking a double!!!!!!!!

Well Sam,
If you take your Verney-Carron 577Nitro and use those CEB #13 solids, you'll need to line a few buffalo up before you shoot if you want to recover a bullet! I figure 4 or 5 might stop one ...

On the other hand if you use one of the 577 Non-Cons, you'll still need to shoot a second so that the skin from the second can be used to patch the crater on the off-side of the first.

This is Sam's fine little Double rifle in 45/70 we were shooting.



And again, if Sam and I could see better the targets would have been better as well! But if I keep Sam shooting in the dark, one day I might out shoot him! LOL





I think regardless the little gun shoots very good with the 400 CEB BBW#13 Solids!!!!!!!!

Well, finally getting around to getting the NonCons that Sam and I tested Tuesday posted. I have been covered up this week.

First let's look at the 370 CEB BBW#13 NonCon HP, matching NonCon with the 400 CEB BBW#13 Solid. We know from early tests last week this bullets lower limits on shear is around 1650 fps impact velocities. From a Marlin Guide gun, 18 inch barrel, and this particular load, that gives us around 100 yds that we can expect the blades to shear.




Our little 295 CEB BBW#13 NonCon HP is able to churn a bit more velocity as you can see, in the Marlin, but because of it's weight the shear is at 1700 fps impacts. Again, about 100 yards is as far as you can expect the blades to shear. This bullet at 22 yards caused massive trauma to the witness card! Close range under 50 yds, this is devastating, all the while giving excellent penetration!




We have the best bullets available now for 45/70 that we have ever in history produced. The North Fork 350 and 325 CPS (Cup Point Expanding) and now the 400/325 CEB BBW#13 SOlids, matching NonCons at 370/295, it's never been better for 45/70. All will work through the Marlins without issue. Back in the day, I wish I could have been using these bullets when I was toting around a Marlin 45/70 on a regular basis, I might have gained far more respect for the cartridge.

Michael

While we are talking about 45/70 and the wonderful bullets we have available from North Fork and CEB, let me put up the North Fork CPS bullets again, so you remember these two companies when ordering your bullets for 45/70!

BTW---Just FYI, the NRA show is in full swing right now! I am sure a lot of guys are there, and having a great time I hope. I know Corbin is there, he was visiting with Dan from CEB yesterday. Wes with Accurate Innovations is in attendance as well. North Fork? Probably as well I would think.

If anyone drops by to visit with these guys, how about take a photo and post it here for us????

Or, send it to me, I will post it! Would love to see what was going on there?????

Michael

Michael and Sam.

When are you going to test some 900 grs BBW#13 at real 600OK velocities ie 2300-2400 fps..????

Ulrik

I didn't know we were! Michael can shoot those!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
I didn't know we were! Michael can shoot those!

Now you know the real reason Michael was hitting the lights - practice for the "ol switcheroo ..."

I'd mark the case of anything you load to distinguish it from those Micheal might "amp up and switch out".

Gotta watch dem Suthnuhs ... they be a tricky lot.

CCMDoc you just gave me an idea. I'll have fun the next time Michael and I have a shooting match. I'll never forget giving a buddy a box of shotgun shells for a duck hunt and I slipped two black powder shells in for fun. The first two he shot were the black powder ones by chance! He came up to me cussing and saying the gun almost blew up and fire and sparks and all sorts of stuff came out of gun. I took two more shells which were normal factory ammo because he had already shot the BP ones and fired them. I said I didn't see what he was talking about and went back hunting. I told him what I did about a year later. He is still cussing!

That's GREAT!!!
Let the fun begin!!!
You realize that you will have to video and post any such stunts...

I hope everybody here in the Southeastern US is safe after the terrible storm outbreak that occurred here a few days ago. I had no damage other than the back door being blown open, but several people just a few miles away were killed.

About the tests.

As far as I'm concerned, everything but the .600 performed to my expectations (calculations and wild guesses, really.)

But the .600 performed better than I expected. It's pretty clear something of this caliber going at even modest velocities is going to be about as easy to stop as a freight train! My opinion: If you can't bring it down with a .600, you don't need to be shooting at it!

IMHO, the 600 is the top rung on the ladder. Anything bigger, and the forces required to get adequate velocity for penetration preclude it from being fired by a human being!

PS" Hey Michael...page 155 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In a 10lb gun I think the 577 is the rung I want to be at unless I have a gun bearer trecking around all day.

Michael,
I almost thought I saw one of them-thar mycroh-meetur thangy's on your bench beside them pretty bullets...don't tell me they gave you a license for that high tech equipment???

For the rest of you, NRA Annual meetings #140 is in full swing, and only those of us that are too exhausted to sleep following the first day are currently looking forward to the brutal punishment that awaits us on a Saturday event. Estimating 70,000 gun-totin freedom lovin powder burnin folks, and I just rightly believe them. Nice people on Friday, the smartest were a bus load of gentlemen from Ohio gun club that chartered their ride and didn't have to find parking!
Y'all come see us if you can!

SB

quote:

I hope everybody here in the Southeastern US is safe after the terrible storm outbreak that occurred here a few days ago. I had no damage other than the back door being blown open, but several people just a few miles away were killed.

Glenn

The storms missed us by around 30 miles. Whew. I hear it's a mess down your way, glad you did not suffer injuries, or damages!

quote:

But the .600 performed better than I expected. It's pretty clear something of this caliber going at even modest velocities is going to be about as easy to stop as a freight train! My opinion: If you can't bring it down with a .600, you don't need to be shooting at it!

quote:

IMHO, the 600 is the top rung on the ladder. Anything bigger, and the forces required to get adequate velocity for penetration preclude it from being fired by a human being!

When Corbin and I were doing the test work with his 600, most of it lower velocity, we hit 2000 fps a couple of times with loads, and with common bullets, it was not very impressive at all, not to me when concerning terminals. At the end of those tests Corbin got his hands on some 900 Barnes Banded, and at 1900 fps managed to push it's way to 53 inches, that was the best of show with that series of tests. Now while it's not all about inches, as 53 inches of dead straight penetration will do anything in the world you would want to do and then some more, but it had not out performed many things I already had, and no real performing softs or expanding bullets. We tested the Woodleigh softs, but had to get down to 1600 fps impacts before we could get 21 inches of penetration out of it, very very soft bullet. At 1800 fps we got 15 inches out of the woodleigh, nearly flat as a pancake. Some of the hard cast bullets we tested did ok, but nothing to write home about.

The 900 BBW#13 and it's matching 825 NonCon have impressed me. Seriously impressed.

Biebs, I agree with you 100%. There is just no need, and anything bigger than a 600 is, well, "OverKill" "OverWeight" "OverBig" "OverBurdened" and just simply "OverTheTop"

Like Boomy, I kinda like .585 caliber myself! 9-10 lbs, 20 inch barrel max. Maybe one day can figure out how to get one on a Winchester, but I am being told threads are getting mighty thin in the receiver for that! ????????

SB

Yep, got lot's of things like thy mycrho things, but mostly just for looks, can't figure out how all that stuff works, just have it on the bench to impress you guys, and let you think I know what the hell I am doing! LOL........

I have tasked Corbin to get over a visit with you???

Michael

You guys saw the photos of the new bullets all in a pile the other day, finally this morning got them sorted out, on the shelves.

Now let's take a closer look! First, I have in hand the New .409 CEB BBW#13 NonCon HPs--Larger cavity so that we get shear out of them. These look great, compared to the first ones, with small cavities. These will shear, how low a velocity I don't know yet.




Also for the 375 HH folks and the 375 B&M guys the new 275 BBW#13 NonCon--Wider cavity to ensure shear at low velocity impacts. THis one is good to go too, the other one is great with the higher capacity 375s, and even sheared well with the 375 HHs. This will do a bit better.




I don't shoot either of these calibers, please if you need some let me know, discounts available to get them off my shelves to make room for things more useful to me, personally!

Michael

Now something that is beginning to excite me some, and this is some new .500s designed specifically for the 50 B&M Alaskan lever guns! These are going to be hammers in these rifles. Combine these with the New North Fork 450 Premium Bonded, and we have a hell of a good lever gun for all sorts of use. There will be many tests, pressure traces, and terminals done with these to see where we can be with them.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
while it's not all about inches ...
Michael

Some more .500s, that I will be using in the 50 B&M Super Short, however I did some compromise on these, designed the nose to mouth so that it could be seated to work in the lever guns just as well. Seat in to the 2cd band from the top for the Super Short, seat in the crimp groove for the 50 B&M Alaskan. This way, they work well in both. And of course they will also work in the other .500s such as the 50 B&M SA, 50 B&M, 500 MDM, and .500s by others such as RIPs cartridge.






More pressure traces and terminals required ASAP.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
while it's not all about inches ...
Michael

Where is your mind this morning?