yes carlosthejackal who posts here got 3 from hein and has 2 more on order with a deposit 2 in the planing for a 7 rifle set. and some having some changes made after the first safari saw the need for a different synthetic stock. I dont think he will post on this thread again "he said he would not" and I dont blame him he has almost 50 thousand tied up in this deal so far and some assclown here wants to vote him off the forum becase he has a more positive attitude than some others. I have used hein rifles and they are some of the very best.

Jorge I hope you get what is owed you so you can move on. I know you are pissed but I still dont think greg set out to screw you or anybody else. Good luck to you.

Howard, you have a pm.

Carlos thank you and replied.

Crusher I don't think HEIN set out to screw any body either. At some point though that no longer matters. We have passed that point. If Hein was not out to be less then upfront he would have long ago returned Jorge's stock which was bought and paid for by Jorge and shipped to Hein.

Sure there are things that could give Hein the benefit of the doubt but other inexcusable actions cast a dark cloud on all his actions or inactions.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Posted by an idiot:
[QUOTE] To keep this active, we could play a version of "Survivor"....

To: 458WIN, 22WRF, FLACO, CARLOSTHEJACKAL and TC1

My public apology

Terry, you and others are right about my post, my attempt at humor to keep the thread active was a poor post. In hindsight it came across a lot more sarcastic than I intended.

I do not know any of you and had no reason to single you out.

I sent PMs to Jorge & Howard explaining I do not take their situation lightly.

In the future, I’ll to keep my posting legitimate.

Jim

Apology accepted.

Terry

Apology appreciated and accepted.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

Good grief has ANYONE got a rifle from Hein. I mean really got one not just some "I heard a friend of a friend got his and loves it"?

I know Phil Shoemaker got a demo model. I seem to remember one AR member saying he got his but that is it. I would really like to know, just what has Hein produced in the past three years.

Here is something to consider if a shop is truly a one-man operation. For the sake of discussion, let's suppose that it takes 300 man-hours to build a rifle with custom action, custom barrel, and custom stock. I don't think that's too far fetched but, if it is, I welcome a more reasonable suggestion. Okay, 300 man-hours per rifle at 40 man-hours per man-week means that it will take 7.5 weeks for one man to build one rifle. Six rifles would take 45 weeks and would probably amount to a reasonable annual production rate, i.e. 6 rifles per year. Taking orders for a dozen guns would provide two years worth of work and immediately create a long backorder situation. Taking more orders would just continue to extend it further and further. It could easily get to a point where a customer would need to wait 3-4 years for his rifle.

My custom order experience is with four different manufacturers, all of them long established shops that employ multiple gunsmiths. Shortest time quoted was 7 months for an Italian over/under. French double rifle quote was for one year. US old-school maker's bolt action rifle quote was two years. English single shot quote is for one year.

It would be difficult for a gunsmith that barrels and stocks off-the-shelf actions to keep the flow going. How a one-man CUSTOM RIFLE shop with a lot of orders can do it in any reasonable amount of time is a mystery to me.

~

Shortly after or maybe even right before I placed my order I had a discussion about that very thing. I was assured that Hein would be accepting no more orders for custom rifles and would produce only actions and that no more orders for those would be accepted until the existing orders had been filled.

We all know that was not true.

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:

I know you are pissed but I still dont think greg set out to screw you or anybody else. Good luck to you.

Crusher, thanks for the kind words but I couldn't disagree more. Greg is a crook, pure and simple. If he had a modicum of honesty, he would have at least tried to pay us back by any means possible. After we sued and he signed an admission of wrongdoing and agree to pay us by 15 October, all he was doing was buying time to hide his assets. He even closed his bank account so we couldn't garnish. He's even stopped returning his own attorney's calls. Our next step is to drag him in front of a judge via subpoena and force him to disclose assets and why he failed to own up to the agreement. He still as my stock blank, he sent me a FAKE picture of my rifle, on and on.

I'm not letting go of this. If he ever tries to show his ass at any convention, I'll be there. simply put, I going to do my level best to knock his dick in the dirt. What Scipio Aemilianus Africanus did to Carthage is too good for this scum. Standing by with a truckload of salt, but you have a nice day and I hope to see you in Dallas again....jorge

quote:

What Scipio Aemilianus Africanus did to Carthage is too good for this scum.

Go get 'em Jorge! In this case I believe a scortched earth policy is warranted!

Anyone reading this and still spends money with the individual involved deserves what they get period. One reason on my "nice wood guns" ACGG folks build them. If someone is an active member in the Guild this type of thing does not happen or else they are no longer a member!

quote:

I'm not letting go of this. If he ever tries to show his ass at any convention, I'll be there. simply put, I going to do my level best to knock his dick in the dirt.

jorge, good on you !!!!!!!

Hell, I will even help with bail money and kick in some for attorney fee's as long as ya don't use 22WRF

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
Phil-

Are trying to tell us that in 17 months you could not correct something that was so obviously untrue? Seventeen months ago this article hit you editor’s inbox that was it, period, I had to go in the magazine as-is, no questions asked? I find that hard to believe.

Yet you find the need to pull an article that was on Mr. Hein and his rifles-if he is someone you trust, then why pull only half of the articles? If you were a man of conviction, then
Half of you is burdened and half of you is feeling in the right. Are you just flipping half of us off?

Marc, You still haven't told me what article you are referring to where I was a whore (or pimp depending on who you listen to on this forum) for Greg Hein ?
I did a piece nearly two years ago on bolt action basics where I showed a custom rifle built by Dave Caboth who used a Hein action. the only other time I remember even mentioning the name Hein - along with other action makers - is in my feature on the 375 Ruger that is in the curent Rifle magazine. And that feature sat on Dave Scovill's desk for 17 months !!!

your knowledge of how the magazine industry operates is obviously limited and certainly naive. Editors don't appreciate writers who constantly try re-writing their features as the that would be like custom gunmakers re-calling their rifles to make un-called for minor adjustments.
Editors have the final say on how every article gets published anyway but Scovill is one of the very best in the industry and allows all of us free reign with absolutely no suggestion of what we should think or write.


Greg Hein has obviously not lived up to his agreements and it appears has cheated a number of good folks out of their money. I know he did not start out with that intention - and Ford and GM did not start out to loose money - but it has happened.
I do know folks who placed orders with Hein and received their actions - later than promised I'll admit, but they did get them and are pleased with them - but they wisely have avoided this forum for obvious reasons.

quote:

That's been a couple of years ago and I know JJS personally.

this is a damn shame. I have hunted with Jim S. (jjs), and drove three hours to camp with him. When I started putting together a custom rifle for my son, Jim wanted to do something special for my son's rifle.

To hear that he got screwed, well, that just pisses me off. No offense to the other folks on this thread who got it dry up the a$$, but jjs is a friend and I don't like seeing anyone get shafted.

To ALL involved in this problem, I think we should circle the wagons and shut this fucker down.

(Sorry for the harsh words, but I'm livid...)

577: Both Howard and I are at the vanguard of this "crusade". It will be interesting to see just what this crook has to say when he is hauled up in front of the judge to explain his actions. jorge

The pisser is that at least at one time they built very good guns.

They built me a Palouse model 300 Win Mag in 2005 that is still my go to rifle.

I never did deal with Greg always with Karl Webber. While they were late in delivering my rifle, it was only a couple of months and Karl did send emails regarding status during final assembly.

My testimonial was on their website and I did ask them to remove it in the fall after being advised that this thread existed.

I am very sorry to hear about JJS because he called me in 2006 and asked my input regarding my rifle ( I guess Hein listed me as a reference ) and I told him how pleased I was with the gun.

I hope all that have lost money to Hein are made whole and this mess gets sorted out.

Jorge, I am sorry but I do not have bank details for them. When I paid for my rifle in 2005 they accepted Pay Pal and that is what I used to make my payments to them.


Mario

Hein's story is that Webber, shall we say took advantage of him and was the barrier to his, Hein's, success.

I think we all can see the BS of that now.

Yep, Karl was very nice to deal with. Hopefully we'll get this jerk soon. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
577: Both Howard and I are at the vanguard of this "crusade". It will be interesting to see just what this crook has to say when he is hauled up in front of the judge to explain his actions. jorge

I have been following this from the beginning, and based on what I have seen here and elsewhere, I am fairly confident in opining that this isn't Hein's first rodeo. He's been down this path before, in some other position. The moves are just too orchestrated and, sadly, predictable.

If would be very interesting to see the financial information he is providing to others for his business needs. He needs suppliers to continue doing business, he needs credit of some form to cover operating expenses, and he probably needs to show folks who want to do business with him that he has a strong and financially solid company. To the extent that those records and documents reflect a reality different from the one he has protrayed to the court and the good folks trying to get reimbursed, he is in a shit load of trouble. If he has transmitted those records via the US Postal System or by fax or email attachment, he is in mail and wire fraud territory. He is certainly engaged in questionable practices across state lines, so this sets up federal jurisdiction.

I don't know if you have tried it yet, but the US Postal inspectors are a seriously underutilized arm of federal law enforcement, and in my dealings with them in the past, they are consummate professionals. I can see them taking the ball and running with this, if you can provide them with some information that sets up a reasonable suspicion of mail fraud.

Any folks on AR receive any information from Hein showing a solvent and flourishing organization? If you do, you might want to get copies of those to Jorge and Howard.

And one more thing - judges absolutely hate being made to look the fool. If Hein has tried to pull the wool over the court's eyes or has misrepresented any information to the court, the judge is going to go ballistic. And an unguided missile like that has powers of criminal contempt that he can use to get Hein's undivided attention.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
Hein's story is that Webber, shall we say took advantage of him and was the barrier to his, Hein's, success.

I think we all can see the BS of that now.

Howard,

Karl was honest in my discussions with the two. I was offered a used 300 WSM rifle built by the Hein business and Karl told me that it had had accuracy problems and that he felt that the stock was the reason for the problems witht hat particular rifle.

I appreciated Karl's very honest acceptance of the problems with that particular rifle at the time. That said, I cannot understand why, when he was straight at the time, he has stayed away from AR and other forums as he would certainly have information that would benefit those who are being ripped off by Hein. It would only add to his reputation if he came here and gave his side of the story and also information that he is bound to have, which would help those who are being stolen from by Greg Hein.

Jim: My hope is what you profess, when Hein is subpoenaed to court, the judge will see exactly what kind of crap he's pulled. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
Hein's story is that Webber, shall we say took advantage of him and was the barrier to his, Hein's, success.

I think we all can see the BS of that now.

Hein told me the same thing.......all the problems at Hein were Karl Webbers doing and that he bought Karl out to clean up the mess. 6 months ago I called Karl Webber and asked him if he knew what was going on at Hein. He said he did not and he tried to make it clear that he had no relationship with Greg Hein.

There are several of us setting on the sidelines waiting to see how this all plays out with Jorge & Howard. If Hein is smart he would come up with the cash, because "we" are more interested in a criminal suit at this point, than a civil suit.

quote:

Originally posted by MHC_TX:
because "we" are more interested in a criminal suit at this point, than a civil suit.

I am split here. I don't think it should be a criminal act to be a poor businessman. That said it should be much easier and less costly to collect debts. The government has stacked the deck in the favor of the one whom owes the money.

PS I suspect part of the buy out agreement contained a confidentiality clause.

Hein crossed the line from just being a poor businessman to being a con artist and thief well over a year ago. A theft case against him will be much easier than collecting on the debts. Hein has been pretty blatant about stealing stock blanks and customers' parts. Karl Webber is not off the hook here either.

Last I heard from Greg, he was shipping me my rifle. That was last Feb and I haven't been able to contact him since. I'm curious if he has produced anything in '08. I ordered my rifle about 3 1/2 years ago, and was told by Karl that it should be done in a year. While I wasn't thrilled with the delays at least Greg was in regular contact and, according to him, was making progress. My gun has been paid in full ($3700) and supposedly was just waiting for final assembly.

So Forrest, can all of us here formulate a joint theft case against him? jorge

Its taken me a good hour to read all 18 pages of this post,hoping it had a conclusion.

Fraud: http://tampa.fbi.gov/investpro...ud/internetfraud.htm

Jorge, Howard & other;

Merry Christmas, best wishes, wish you could find a settlement in your stockings but I got a feeling this will drag on to '09

Here's my Christmas wish hoping you guys get your money back in full with interest plus punitive damages for the frustration and trouble he has caused you.

Keepin' the thread alive

Mr Hein,

Jorge, Howard and others are still waiting to hear from you

Well, our attorney is supposed to be setting up a court date and have him explain to the judge why he is such a scumbag. jorge

Jorge, what was Hein building for you, I don't remember reading it anywhere? (BTT)

450 Dakota (N-5 action), 1/4 rib express sights, Circassian walnut. jorge

Do you have someone else building it for you, or are you waiting for the settlement

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
Do you have someone else building it for you, or are you waiting for the settlement

Nope, settlement. Maybe someday I'll try again, but for now, I'm strictly an "off the shelf" guy again! jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

Nope, settlement. Maybe someday I'll try again, but for now, I'm strictly an "off the shelf" guy again! jorge

Im Confident folks like MartiniHagn could build you a rifle that wont cause you angst or sleepless nights, but their prices are noteably higher, and that seems to tell me something about WFH.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
Do you have someone else building it for you, or are you waiting for the settlement

Nope, settlement. Maybe someday I'll try again, but for now, I'm strictly an "off the shelf" guy again! jorge

Jorge,

Before you give up on the custom guys you should give Mark Penrod a call. Mark is a craftsman, a gentleman, and a professional of the first order. You won't be sorry if you have him work on a project.

Andy: Mark has done some work for me in the past and he is high on my list. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Andy: Mark has done some work for me in the past and he is high on my list. jorge

Jorge,

I just had Mark do some work on my Hein rifle and set it right while we were home for Christmas (his shop in N. Manchester is only 7 miles from our place in Urbana, Indiana where my wife and I both grew up, I remember when he came back from the Colorado School of Gunsmithing and first hung up his shingle) and I told him the whole Hein saga and what you guys were going through. He thought it was very sad. Mark is about as far from a Greg Hein as one can get; as honest, conscientious, and professional as the day is long and a real perfectionist to boot.

Good luck friend,
Andy