Its the freedom of the marketplace in action.

The only power us people have is the power to go click-click and go away.

We effect the only effect we can have on a site owner by the use of our Click-click.

Nothing else that a guest can say or do means means anything ,,It does not matter at all how right we think we are, or how small we think it might look to ban everyone who disagrees with the owner...,we can think we have the correct position on some question all we want , but the owner always has the last say in all matters.

Except for this one thing, the owner is powerless to keep us from going away...and a forum owner is powerless to make people come to his site.

Thus,,,from our point of view of a guest, we have total power in some areas, and no power in others....as long as we dont get confused where we have power and control, and where we dont, we should do well and never face being baned....

Hillbilly Hunter

I don't think Swamp will ever realize people used to go to his site for people just like Ken Howell. The main reason I visited there so much was for the free flow of information provided by true professionals. Swamp appearently can't comprehend that advertisors will leave if there isn't a audience to see the ads. I can only imagine how much business his advertisers have lost by being affilitated with HA. I've gone back on forth on the idea, but have settled on doing zero business with anyone who advertises on his site.

Idared, do you get the feeling that Blue now knows where we are coming from?

If not, I am betting he is learning. I am actually surprised the thread stayed there that long.

I know one thing, I would pay to watch "De Quote" represent Swamp in a court case.
Would pay quite a lot too.

Montana action fiasco all over again.



Marshall is worried that people are getting rich off his site and not paying banner fees. With his attitude on the whole thing he chases off prospective buyers of his banners. No doubt Ken will go just like Montata Rifle Company did and spend his advertising money in a more friendly climate. Most everyone visits more than one forum and hopefully those who are interested in his book will look for it on other forums.



Ken is just one more good poster that probably could care less about HuntAmerica anymore. Quite the way to do business, but that is Marshall's privilege and right.

Idared, do you get the feeling that Blue now knows where we are coming from?

Plus he has much better taste in custom guns then someone else we know.

Dakota

Now you have done it. You went ahead and mouthed off too much on the AR forum and got the whole thread pulled.

As for your being here, stay here all you want, and post all you want. Now that you yourself have admitted that you are a fruitcake, nobody cares. Pretty soon you will be the only one on this thread reading and writing to yourself.

Did you check all of the other forums to see where I posted your words???

Blue

There was a thread in HA about this thread. It was the only one getting any action on the whole lame forum. Well guess what? Its gone. Is anyone suprised that ol Swamp would pull the most active thread on his forum?

Hillbilly Hunter. I looked over there at HA at the reloading section .



Wow ...something happened and Ken Howels post about his new book has been deleted and banned by the moderators and owner of HA apparently.





Terrible situation

BLUE,

You misunderstand; I want my arguments to be stale.

That is why Im here. I have no need to dance for you.

I dont care how many people like me you have met before. I dont care if anyone reads my posts. In fact I would be just as happy if no one read my words. I just don't care. I never wanted any of you people to be reading my posts here on this site anyway. So I am not all that upset if they seem stale to you.

The only thing they will be, is here...that is the one thing that are meant by me to be...."here"

They are here, and will stay and keep growing in amount and number until the reason they are here is no longer "here"

I thank you for all the personal points you have listed that I have, but I am not here to make friends, I dont want to be liked, I would rather not be here in the first place, I have no interest in this gunsmith stuff, (being a knife man myself).

I hope that all of my posts are seen to be nothing more than filled with "containing fallacies of irrelevance"...if I say ANYTHING on this forum, and a guy here questions what I have said, I will support my views fully with yet more fallacies of irrelevance. The farthest thing from my mind is my being willing to back-up any of the coming teachings that I have in store for this forum.

I am seeking to be thought of as a "fool" here at this site, I have already seen my postings judged before I could come and defend it, so why would I think when I showed up you would be able to change your minds? I was seen as a "fool" before I got here, and only a real "fool" would think he could change your minds.

I know full well before I logged-on to this forum that the judgments of this room had already spoken against my views, I see no need for truth to support my views, not to people that have clearly shown me they are already finished looking at my point of view.

The only thing I wish to do in the future here, is to be "here" until that day when the reason from me being "here" is no longer "here"

Now as for the Chef's Choice...



This is a darn good sharpener for the average person.



The reason is not just because it is electric, and uses magnets to hold the blade at the correct angle, but the most important aspect of the chefs choice is that it will raise a burr.



Unless your sharpening system can raise a burr (or wire) it is not worth the trouble to use. In fact, unless your sharpener can raise a burr it will soon make your knife impossible to hold an edge long.



I disagree totally with the ideas behind the well-known V rod sharpeners. They work in the short term, but they also just follow the existing edge of the blade. Any ups and down that the blade edge might have are not made straight. Soon your knife will look like a flag waving in the wind.



By grinding on a stone on one side of the knife only until you have risen a burr, then switching to grinding the other side, you straighten the whole blade. The blade gets a NEW edge, not just a shaper edge.



The chefs choice will raise a burr, and the power sharpeners are very fast cutters. All said the chefs' choice is not that bad a sharpener for the home and kitchen use it is intended for.

My vote for the best goes here to AR. While I am sure there are other places to get really technical, specific to a certain type of gun, information the broad wealth of information available here from both gun builders and end users is unequaled.

Kind of funny that it is this way as many of these very knowledgeable people used to hand out at HuntAmerica yet have left that place far behind. HA would have to get my vote as the worst place.

If you ask for info here at AR you get opinions and information from real people who have been there and done that on both the building and using end of things. Ask the same question at HA and you get some copy and paste BS written by an ad firm on Madison Avenue. Really funny thing about that is the people doing the cut and paste believe the info they are posting.

Gee, hope I don't get "deleted" for my thought's.

AR has to be tops for hunting type rifles, I would also throw in AR15.com for the assult type of weapons. I also like the 1911 board along with the Longrange board.
Now, let me tell you about the worst, I am in total agreement with Howard as to the number 1 choice. The server donation speaks for the membership, the Limp Dicked Mental Midget has been begging for 1200.00 for at least 6 months and his follower's have coughed up 565.00, they must really stand behind him in the way he runs his site.
Did I say I like this site

Howard, I agree with you on all counts.

Quite honestly, I've never encountered a gunsmithing/custom rifles forum on any hunting-realted website that equals this one where the emphasis is on hunting rifles. The only one that does (in terms of expert participation) is www.pistolsmith.com, and of course there the emphasis is on custom pistols for general shooting and self-defense.

But aside from that, the shear number of first-class, world-renown professional riflesmiths and artisans who are AR members and who post here on at least a semi-regular basis is astounding.

I think the real secret to this success is that single-focus commercial interests play no role here and have no undue influence. Because of that, AR forums are REAL forums, where non-professional members as well as professional members are free to speak up and bare their opinions. This is as it should be. Advertisers have no power here, nor do their pimps. As many of us know, this has been the undoing of at least one well-known website, and I suspect that it's been the undoing of others that are no longer online.

AD

The best:
http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5

second best:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gunsmithing/messages

ok:
http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=16

ok:
http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3f8e120b03b0ffff

ok:
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=18

ok:
http://glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=23

ok:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=12

site for moderators to meet customers [dane owns it]:
http://www.pistolsmith.com/

Howard,



You are 100% for hunting style rifles.



Both AR and "previous HA" have been very guns and ammo orientated sites. Many other sites have the "chit chat" forums as the leading forum.



Another aspect to both AR and "previous HA" is that both sites are heavily populated by big bore shooters and you usually find that shooters who are using big bores for rats, mice and rocks have been up and down the calibre/rifle ladder.



Of course one small difference between AR and HA is that the owner of AR has actually owned and shot a rifles or two



Mike

I really like this forum myself. However, I do feel that the moderator should do a better job of disciplining those people who cannot explain their opinion about something or someone without attacking another person by calling them names. It is one thing to state that a policy sucks or "whatever", and quite another thing to state that the person who made that policy sucks or "whatever". It is disgraceful to call someone a foul name on a public forum such as this forum, and does nothing more than bring down the overall quality of the forum.

Best ive found for asking gunsmithing Questions is AR now.



Picking up good imformation from other visiters to a forum is my main reason for visiting these forums is to gain knowledge, read productive imformative posts ,from Experienced people about guns and hunting ,outdoor related topics.



Not to read useless , pointless, arguments ,pissing matches, from bored "chat room queen" type posters that live on some forums now like HA. HA used to be OK but anyone worth reading has left that sight. There is no good imformation at HA anymore , just the same local wanabe good ol' boys gossiping

blue, your post was great,I really liked this part
It is one thing to state that a policy sucks or "whatever", and quite another thing to state that the person who made that policy sucks or "whatever". so are you trying to say that someone here made a statement that someone SUCKS , I knew he does alot of kinky things but SUCKS, damn somethin new every day.

My favorites are Benchrest Central and Extreme Accuracy forums.

Jimmy

all I am trying to say is that you should not be calling anyone a "limp dick mental midget" or anything else on a national forum.

blue, how would you suggest I describe him. I was trying to express myself without having to resort to using foul language . Maybe you should try to reason with this owner, get some first hand experience then come back and tell me how you were treated when you didn't fall into his little kiss ass groupies. This diaper wearin POS is an outright liar and when you won't bow down and kiss his ass you will be gone. Yes, I am a bitter SOB

I gotta agree 100%
If I want something answered correctly and fast, I come here!

Howard,

I totally agree. I don't even pay attention to other forums because I know I can usually get the best information here.

I don't think this is just with hunting rifles either, that just happens to be what most people ask about. But how many people here have a hunting rifle that Roger engraves as profusely as he is the one for Craig? There are guys here that can do stuff that is better than most of us will ever have, but when you get to that point as a craftsman standard gunsmithing questions are simple.

I mean, how many gunsmiths have as many reamers in inventory as John Ricks?

Nope, overall knowledge (except maybe in pistols) of the guys on this forum is tops.

worst forum has to be Penthouse or Playboy, I spend hours looking for gun info and I can hardly find any print!! :-)

Red

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Penthouse or Playboy. Homer likey

Definately AR for hunting rifles and gunshop.com for double guns.

I would say tops is definitely AR, with 24-hour Campfire being another favorite. And, yes, the quality days at HA seem to be but a memory now (the exception being the Handloading forum).



Also, Paco Kelly's Leverguns.com forum is simply the best for birds of that feather.



RSY

Jimmy

you may be a bitter SOB, and it may be justified. Why not resort to proveable facts and evidence to let everyone know exactly what happened,and leave the namecalling out of it.

Might I reply for Jimmyd? in answer to your comments?

"Stop me when I'm lying"

By the way, anybody who doesn't think 24hour is a bunch of groupies has not been there. Wow, from someone who knows.

Jim

I hear you Jimmy; it�s really pathetic what the Limp Dicked Mental Midget and his diapers have done to HA. The guy has proven himself to be an outright liar and fabricator of the truth.



No need to prove anything to anyone, everyone who was there including the Limp Dicked Mental Midget know the truth. I mean how does a guy who can�t even keep a job as a PE teacher in grade school afford to sue anyone and everyone like he threatens to do. The guy is all talk and no walk. I mean what do you do to lose a government job? I didn�t know that was possible! Limp Dicked Mental Midget

I agree with most that AR does appear to THE repository for hunting rifles with four forums dedicated to the subject. I further agree HA once used to be in the days when Allen and Chic were moderators. The 1911forums have quite a few name 'smiths posting good info and is a touch less commercial then pistolsmith.com. I read the 10 Ring and 10mm reloading forums only on Glocktalk as the G20 is the only combat tupperware I own and am interested in owning. That's it for gun forums although we do talk about alot of guns on the car forum I frequent.

The only sites I frequent any longer are the following:

Accurate Reloading

www.nitroexpress.com

www.longrangehunting.com

www.snipershide.com

I've learned at lot at all of these without the typical HA-type of atmosphere.

Longbob....


I think you have me confused with someone else.

I have never ever called myself a custom knife maker; I am very new to the sport of knife making.

I am learning to do this the "old School" ways. I looked into all the different styles of knife making that is seen in this modern age. I read the HOW TO MAKE KNIVES book by Loveless and although he makes a good drop point hunter, I decided that his use of high-end, high tech tools was a different path than the one I felt called to walk.

I was reading in BLADE magazine and there was a field editor there that had a story about the way he hammer forged a blade. I felt that this guy was just the person I needed to learn from.

A little later for my birthday my wife gave me a copy of KNIFE TALK by Ed Fowler. The moment I read this book about knives I knew I had found my teacher. So I learned his private email address from a forum, and I sent a letter to him. He answered my letter in 5 min. So I sent more, and he sent right back each time. Mr. Fowler has talked to me about the beauty and performance of his blades so I decided to start learning.

I got a belt grinder, an O/A torch, some Texaco type "A" quenching oil, (Ed and I went in with some people to get a 55 gal drum of it), and made a real coal forge. At each step Ed Fowler was there to help me understand how do the next step. Ed Fowler even made a traceing of his own sheath that appears in his movie so that I could better understand the placement of the knife.

I began hammer forging John Deere Load Control Shafts. Its hard work, but that's the point.

Most all knife makers are really nothing more that just guys who are assembling knives from parts that are pre-made.

Most knife makers are what we call "Stock-removal", that is to say the order blanks off the Internet and just grind the per-cut knives to the shape they want.

I on the other hand start with a 1&1/2 thick 2 foot long bar of 5160 steel, and with only my right arm, bang that S.O.B. into the shape of a knife.

I believe that I am learning something important...something that should not be lost in our world of computers and plasma cutters. I can take a railroad spike and in one day have a knife that will cut with the best of them for sale in stores.

But sharpening, that's a problem for me as it is for most people.

Our grandpas all knew how to sharpen a knife, what is happening to us? Are we going to all forget this skill? Sharpening a blade freehand used to be something that a guy just knew how to do.

Yes I do sand the blades to shaving sharp with my 2X72 belt grinder, but so what? Where is the "Old World " skill in doing that?

I seek to learn how to take a knife and a stone and be able to work that blade to a fine edge.

I don't want to be a knife maker that when someone hands him a blade and says, "Could you sharpen this?" To have to explain to that person "I cant, I have to use a jig and a power sander."

When I get better, I should be able to use anything at hand to sharpen a blade to shaving sharp. Ed Fowler says he has used, a river rock, his cowboy boots, his pants, even just a sheet of paper, to sharpen a blade.

That's the type of knife maker I want to be...

I have all the sharpening toys and jigs sitting on my workbench, they all work so-so at sharpening, but nothing is better from my point of view than learning how to do it freehand.

To each his own.

No knife maker would try to tell another that learning the use of the sharpening stone is unimportant in the development of good knife making skills.

I used to go to HA a lot as well but once everyone moved over here I mostly come here now. Still go there for the muzzleloaders.

The other place I go often is www.americanlongrifles.com

simply the best info out there for that style of rifle. Very knowlegable builders on that site if you are into flintlocks.

Paul

Incorrect. All I at least started out to do was ask that people not call other people foul names on this public forum. Admittedly I then attempted a bit of mediation, but my primary purpose remains that of civility.

It now seems clear that the graveman of your and everyone elses complaint is one of censorship. You folks wanted to say what you wanted to say on somebody elses private doorstep.

Nevertheless, I now do not understand you coming here and telling people in this thread to censor theirselves by closing down the thread.

??????????????????????

No question this is the best forum in regards to hunting rifles and gunsmithing I've come across. There is such a wealth of knowledge, skill, and experience here that it is an awesome resource for a dumb amateur such as myself. The knowlege level is such that BS is generally quickly weeded out. I also really enjoy the perspective of worldwide participation. It is fascinating to read the views of hunters and shooters from Europe, Africa, Austrailia, etc. Spending time here is the equivilent of a graduate level education. Thank you Saeed.

Jeff

Howard. Why are you insulting the limp dicked midgets of the world by including your buddy amoungst them?