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"...and I am using some selected pieces of LionHunters brass...LOL..." So that's where my 500NE brass has gone!?  And here I sit with only 20 rounds of loaded ammo - Heh-Heh.  No worries; if a few pieces of brass and some RL-15 are my contribution to the ongoing research of Mssrs. Rose and McCourry, that's little price to pay for the end result of a better 500NE load.  Actually, the 20 rounds on hand here are two different developmental loads I will be testing from two Merkel DRs and then reporting the results to Michael sometime next week.  Cheers to all the 500NE shooters out there!  It's a helluva great caliber!  Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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THE BEST of them all!! The 500NE is what all the other Nitro Express rounds want to be when they grow up, as someone once said. I'll add that the 577NE and 600NE are NE rounds that grew up and developed beer bellies!!!  | |||
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Todd, Mike, and all..... As you well know, I am a 500 fan as well.. Always a passion for 500 NE, figured it was the best of all for anything and everything. And much of what has lead me to all the .500s I have developed, as I wanted that in all my rifles, levers and bolts, and singles as well.... Hence my interest in this very project in which we have embarked upon. I have to admit, had this been say 470 or something else, my interest would have long ago depleted itself. No offense to lesser calibers please, but just such a keen interest in .500 or .510 in this case. Personal thing is all. Fact of the matter, no .474 and I get along very well, not even my own .474! Anyway, no need to drone on..... Yes, Mike, I grabbed about 15 pieces of your last batch of brass you sent, and that is what I have used for every piece of data. I would say this Hornady brass is doing extremely well in that regard. I keep using it over and over, its segregated from all others. Little thin at the top, and I am rolling a hell of a crimp in all of them, but it is doing great. Todd, bullets and data on the same day.... You are Set To "Jet".... Pun intended... HEH..... Yes, FROM BOTH OF YOU.... Chrono Data............ Enjoy.... Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Hi Michael & Sam, Not too far back in this thread you mentioned a rimmed .500 cal might be invented by you in the future. May I submit for your data: 1- http://ammoguide.com/?catid=749 (See #2 as Ed changed brass) 2- http://forums.accuratereloadin...651005221#4651005221 3- I'd like to see a version with brass between 2.5" and 3.0" usable in falling block Farquharson actions, remove the "filler factor". Thank you both for the sharing you do with us!!!!!!!!!   D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Hi DR.... Well, I have the 50 B&M Alaskan, Lever gun, 50AK squeezed down to .500. Does pretty spiffy. I am waiting right now on some really neat little singles in the 50 BMAK, 1885 with a 22 inch barrel and a Ruger #1 with 20 inch, barrel length dictated by aesthetics only. Was running my mouth the other day about a 500 NE squeezed down exactly the same way and on a Ruger #1 or something such..... But not in a rush for that right now anyway... Can't wait to get my single shot 50 B&M Aks however... Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, I just got back from the range where I ran the 510gr and 474gr CEBs. Used IMR 4064, IMR 4007 SSC, and the very last bit of RL-15 I scrounged by pulling bullets in other cartridges. I also set aside my A-Square brass that I've been using since day one of purchasing that Merkel, damn, this 500NE brass last a long time, and used some once fired Hornady brass. Across the board, I found your data to be spot on, producing almost identical velocity as well as case expansion. Very good work you did putting that together. The case expansion I found to be really valuable. I shot 40 rounds today but even at that, this was all very preliminary so there is much more work to be done getting it dialed in but the data is spot on. | |||
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All rightee… A new rimmed .500 caliber for Michael – here we go….  It is basically designed to replicate the original Long Neck .500 MDM cartridge in a rimmed design. Definitely ought to work well in a High-Wall Winchester or other modern single shot rifle – for a Double Rifle I’d say one of Bailey Bradshaw’s Farquharson Double Rifles would do the trick and allow loading to match the bolt action round. http://www.bradshawgunandrifle..._Double_Rifle_1B.php Anyway I ran the prototype into QL for testing. Giving the nod to Michael a 20” barrel was selected – used a PMap of 45919 psi Peizo with matched Michael’s and Sam’s piezo of factory Kynoch solids in the 470 NE… So here’s a dummy loading – real life should give slightly lower pressure with more velocity: 500 MDM Rimmed .500gr CEB BBW#13 FN Solid 20” Barrel Length 93.0gr Accurate 2495 @ 99.6% fill = 2227 fps & 5507 ft-lbs @ 45780 psi (100% powder burn) 88.5gr Alliant AR-Comp @93.7% fill = 2199 fps & 5367 ft-lbs @ 45695 psi (100% powder burn) 86.5gr Vihtavouri N133 @ 95.7% fill = 2129 fps & 5034 ft-lbs @ 45670 psi (100% powder burn) Load development probably ought to be performed with a single shot with strain gauges attached to the barrel having the same contour to be used for the DR… Once the HP NonCon and FN Solid loading are developed identical loadings would be provided for regulating the DR… Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Capo, I think Michael needs to use the 500NE 3 1/4 case to get as much out of his new cartridge as he can at low pressure for a double. He's slowly warming up to a double. He will have to have 18 inch barrels for sure. Sam | |||
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Sam, You're very likely correct. I reckon all depends upon whether a traditional break action DR is used or whether a much higher pressure capable Farquharson style action DR is used. Me I’m just playing with the software while the wife is watching a taped show… Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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OK, excellent news that you are able to correlate the data here, and everything is matching up for you. With such a variety of barrels, reamers, rifles, people putting them together, and all the other factors that could be involved that effect consistency from one rifle to the next, I am very pleased this is working for you. It is also working for Paul Truccolo as well with his data. When Mike shoots this week that will yet be another indicator as they have two Merkels out there. The case expansion is a very valuable tool. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Well I only thought I had seen it all..... Now I know I have not seen everything......... http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=332284788 http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Yep - two barrels and two triggers so that one can legally shoot two shots with a single finger pull. Ought to do some damage against 2-legged dangerous assailant criminals (DACs)... Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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I thought that would be Drug Influenced Criminals - DICs D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Please, why is the bottle neck needed? The 500 NE is not bottle necked. It's brass uses a base .015" greater diameter, and a bullet .010" greater diameter. Link: http://ammoguide.com/?catid=711 D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Yes would be good against DACs and DICs... Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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It isn't needed - just did it to match the shape of Michael's original 500 MDM bolt action cartridge. Michael has mentioned the 500 MDM could easily have been designed without the bottle neck so zero reason the rimmed version couldn't be designed as a straight-tapered case - basically a much longer 50 B&M Alaskan... Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Ah Ha!!! D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Any of you guys, Todd, Mike, etc., that have gone back to IMR 4007 SSC for the .500 NE and need some...I know where about 10 1 lb canisters can be had. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Ed Hubel made a .500" necked up .470 NE. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I'm all set for now Lane. I actually received some RL-15 yesterday as well. I still have 7 lbs of 4007 and I'm currently only using it for solids. Thanks for the info however. | |||
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The link that Jorge posted on one of the other discussion threads is a treasure trove. I believe they only had 1300+ lbs of RL15 left. www.3rdgss.com | |||
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Friend, I think that you are referring to the .499 HE which is necked up 450 #2 bass at the full 3.5 inch length. Be- low is the old version using the 475 #2Brass: http://ammoguide.com/?catid=749 D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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I will let Ed chime in but last time I remember his revision was the 470 NE but he is a prolific wildcat junkie so I would not be surprised if be necked up or down most carts. God bless Ed. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Lane, 3rdgss.com has 3 of the 8 lb jugs of the IMR4007ssc left at a reasonable price. They had 4 yesterday and when I checked earlier, someone had snapped one up. | |||
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I was checking on y'all. My local shop has 20 lbs of IMR-4007ssc. I went to that sight Jorge found and got fixed for R-15 and all else I need...except AA 2230! The nectar-of-the-gods powder for my .458 WM w/ a scope in case I want to shoot a 100 lb'er at 125 yds. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, I will have to check on the exact powder type but a couple of my friends loaded some loads for the .458 WM that chrono'd 2230 and appeared to be fairly Accurate. I'll get back to you on the powder. | |||
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I have always shot AA 2230 in my .458 WM with 450g bullets and for the last 10 years...NF's. This particular rifle will shoot NF FPS (old style) to less than an inch off the table at 100 yds. With 72 grs...I get an honest ~2250 fps. This rifle would be my answer to the 100 lb'er at 125. Other good powders are X-Terminator because it IS AA 2230. And Michael tells me TAC and IMR 8202 are good too! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane TAC and IMR 8208 are good in both 458 Win and Lott... For my use here, IMR 8208 gets the nod a bit, as it is useful in all the B&Ms down to 416, and even the 500 MDM as well. Its also one of the bases that I have been blending with other powders. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Man have I learned from this thread. Strong work and much experience shared by many. Hope this isn't redundant....anyone with experience with a 500NE on elephant with lighter bbw13's? | |||
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Welcome JDT500......... We are all happy that you got something from the thread, that was the point of the work and time invested. LionHunter may be the first that I know of, he is taking his Son In Law, both of them shooting 500 NEs, both are out for elephant in June, both loaded with 510 gr BBW#13s at 2200-2250 fps depending on the rifle. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Thanks! I'm headed to Botswana in June as well and planning on using 570's in a Merkel 500. I wouldn't mind adding to the trial of lighter bullets if they were available. First elephant for me | |||
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Hey Capo Which software did you use to draw this cartridge, is that quickdesign? Rhodes DRSS | |||
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Michael and Sam you are right about RL15. I was working on a 500 load with a 570 BBW #13 with 97 gr RL 15. The chrono said 2120 and crossed by 3 inches. Long story short I continued downward to 93 gr and still got 2050 fps and finally convergence and a 4 shot .75 in group. I'm glad I don't know what pressure the 97 gr load must have generated. Better I don't I think | |||
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Rhodes, Yes QuickDESIGN for the cartridge, a PDF program to do the heading and base information. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Excellent JDT....... You might have been up on pressure some, but I am sure it was not terrible.... Cases came out of the rifle easy? I am betting so.... 2050 fps with that 570#13 is plenty..... Deep penetrator.......... Good to hear........ Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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What's your barrel length please? D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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michael458 the link is dead in your original post. | |||
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Which link???? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...--Barrel-Strain.html | |||
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OK.... That link must have become corrupted or something???? All those are under Additional Research......... http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...tional-Research.html Barrel Strain and Double Rifles..... http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...--Double-Rifles.html 500 NE Data and Barrel Strains.... http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...a-Barrel-Strain.html 458 Barrel Strains.... http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...rel-Strain-Test.html And all seem to be working and where they are supposed to be???? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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