quote:

The 450 Alaskan hasn't drawn blood sense '05, it's usually a back-up gun. I should have thought ahead and ordered some CEB's and worked up a load instead of fishing.

Coyote

Yep, I reckon some of those 295 BBW#13s would do a jam up job in the 450 Alaskan!



Well, we have Alaskan Ox here, he arrived yesterday afternoon, had a great visit, and is returning this morning for the next few days. Brent is going to pitch up here this morning as well and we will be looking at 500 MDMs, 9.3 B&Ms, and 50 B&Ms.

You remember Alaskan had that 416 Ruger converted to 50 B&M a few months ago. We have it here now, and plan to work with it quite a bit this weekend. I have to tell you, if I could scratch Ruger off of it, and scratch Winchester on it somewhere I would have myself one of these! While it will hold 2 down in the magazine, and one in the spout, I don't see that as a big issue. It feeds and functions 100% great, and feeds the BBW#13s like butter! But it has an advantage that I did not think of, or realize until looking at it yesterday afternoon. The magazine length is 3.4 inches. What this means is one can take the 50 B&M and use ANY BBW#13 NonCon, even the new 450 BBW#13, put a Talon Tip in it, and it fits the magazine PERFECT! Any BBW#13 NonCon Talon Tip added! Feed and function slick as can be! Has me thinking for sure. Fully Tipped NonCons are a great advantage in up close hitting velocity! This is going to be an interested few days!

Just gotta figure out how to scratch WINCHESTER on the side somewhere?

Michael

You know Michael, if one can have both Winchester and Marlin or Browning lever guns and said one's head not pop off, I would think one could have both Winchester and Ruger bolt guns without creating too much of a conundrum! Your Winchesters will always know that they are number one in Daddy's heart!

... Or, just use a standard length M70 ... Ain't no big thang one way or another ...

quote:

Originally posted by big_foot:
You know Michael, if one can have both Winchester and Marlin or Browning lever guns and said one's head not pop off, I would think one could have both Winchester and Ruger bolt guns without creating too much of a conundrum! Your Winchesters will always know that they are number one in Daddy's heart!

Hey BigFoot!

Yes, it is true, I have rifles that are not Winchesters. A good many of them as point of fact. I even have a 50 B&M AK on the Marlin, a couple of them actually. But, I refuse to go to the field with them as they don't have Winchester scratched on them anywhere.

Now, I have 3 of those hi grade really nice used to be browning M71s, all in 50 B&M AK. However, they did not say browning on them except on the barrel--well that barrel no longer exists, and has been replaced with a .500 barrel. I figure they are no longer brownings, and are in fact now Winchester M71s in 50 B&M AK--so those no longer count. Now the Browning 1885 I am going to convert to 50 B&M AK is in the same category as the 71s. That's how I figure it! HEH HEH--reckon I can figure as I please on that eh? LOL...............

Ya see, figure it this way too--fellow can have whatever as long as you don't go to the field with it. Sorta like looking--but not touching kinda thing! Of course Momma would poke my damned eyes out if she even caught me looking!



RIP

Man, I am having some very serious thought as to sending one of those hard to come by big RUMs that I reserve for 500 MDMs up and having a standard 50 B&M put on it--with that magazine I could do anything with a 50 B&M + tips. Serious, having to hold myself back.


We have a new member in the B&M family now, Brent could not take it and left here yesterday with MY 500 MDM. My 19 inch Gun to beat all! I could not believe it, I have no idea how he possibly swindled me out of that rifle? He came down for a visit all the way from VA. He shot the 500 MDM like it was part of him, some damned fine fancy and fast bolt work too! I thought I was pretty fast on the bolt, Brent is a Pro I tell you! He handled the little 500 like it was a toy. Brent is a pretty fair chap as well, we took a liking to him, so figured the gun worked really well for him, and so it has a good home now where it will be appreciated and go to work for him. He is an experienced hand loader so he will have no issues 500 MDM. We here look forward to hearing how it does for him in the future!

We also got some work in with Ox's big Ruger 50 B&M, and it's 22 inch barrel. What we found on the 450 BBW#13 NonCon--the H-4198 load that gives me 2256 fps in my 18 inch guns, gave Ox 2306 in his 22 inch gun, 12.5 fps per inch of barrel. Not much, as I suspected to begin with. one more test today with some of the lighter bullets at higher velocity, and if this trend continues I think Ox is going back for a change to 19 inches! HEH HEH............ But, we will see today if the velocity gain with lighter faster bullets is either significant to justify or not. If there is a gain at all.

Funny story I have to relate! Ox being a gentleman, had a very less than good opinion of the Super Shorts, however has never said so of course, and would not have. I dragged out my little 50 B&M Super Short for Ox and Brent to play with and shoot some. Poor Brent, had too little respect for the Super Short and it gave him a tiny little cut between the eyes--

Ox got to the 50 Super Short, and the three of us sitting on the range, around the round table, chatting, I noticed Ox sitting with the 50 Super Short, rubbing on it! LOL........... Finally he admitted to us, "Michael, my original thoughts on the Super Shorts, Just not impressive, in fact I thought it was STUPID" After shooting the 50 Super Short, and playing with it, Ox decided he liked the 50 Super Short pretty good! Now guess who is going to have a 50 Super Short built for themselves? Yep, if you guessed our boy Ox, well, you guessed it right, we are making a plan now to have a 50 Super Short built for him, and he even talked me out of one of my Hillbilly camo stocks to boot!

Boys, we are having a grand ole time here this weekend! We enjoy the visits from our AR pals. Poor Ox now, he is having to put up with Michael Abuse--HEH-ask Sam, he knows! LOL............

Well, gotta go, we are getting ready for another day of shooting and BS!

Enjoy your weekend guys!

Michael

Those Super Shorts have that effect on people. Its a wonder Ox didn't leave with one!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Those Super Shorts have that effect on people. Its a wonder Ox didn't leave with one!

HEH.......... He will be here another two days--I am keeping an eye on my rifle! HEH...... Right now, its the only 50 Super Short I have here? And, the one we are taking to Australia as well!

M

Had a great day getting to meet Michael and Ken. Fella, if you have not taken a trip to heaven, I mean Michaels range, you owe to your self to do so. Beware thou that it will be expensive!!. I mean more expensive than you think it is going to be. I fully intende on gong down and buying the 500MDM Michael has listed on the website, but found the 19" weapon handled substantially better than the 21" weapon. So out of no where I had Michael on the ground in a choke hold convincing him I needed HIS 19" rifle. Really he offered after I really liked the weapon and the rest is history. Now, the 9.3 that is going into the works was not planned. And the little "sissy" super short, well that was a total surprise. In both performance and appearance. I had no respect for it, as my forehead shows. First shot, instant blood. Se ond and third, no problems, this was of course after 20 plus rounds out of the MDM and B&M's. So now I am
trying to justify. Why. I "need" one of those.

Also picked up some 130 gr .308 CEB for the win mag.

All in all a fantastic day, can't wait to do it again. Again thanks Michael for allowing me to invade your little piece of heaven for the day.

Ahh

Well as far as the super shorts are concerned, SSK called thursday and Mine is finished!

It gets tuned up next week at Michaels then on to me.

I did go with the 458 SS instead of the 50, but I bet it will be lots of fun.

Thanks again to Michael

SSR

Cross you will love that little 458. Very useful cartridge and bullets of all kinds available. I was going to build one but have decided to build a 16 inch 458 B&M with a really light barrel. I can then use it either way as a fun gun or a big thumper.

Sam

Sam

I already have a 416B&M that I just love for serious stuff. this little 458w/16in will be my ranch gun-live in the side by side for wild dogs, hogs,whitetail and other targets of opportunity.

SSR

quote:

Had a great day getting to meet Michael and Ken. Fella, if you have not taken a trip to heaven, I mean Michaels range, you owe to your self to do so. Beware thou that it will be expensive!!. I mean more expensive than you think it is going to be. I fully intende on gong down and buying the 500MDM Michael has listed on the website, but found the 19" weapon handled substantially better than the 21" weapon. So out of no where I had Michael on the ground in a choke hold convincing him I needed HIS 19" rifle.

Brent,

Welcome to the 500 M.D.M clan.

The 500 M.D.M ROCKS !!!

Thanks Paul. Michael kept pointing the 50 b&m, but you know, I like to go big. Looking forward too turning a couple zebra and wildebeest inside out late July.

quote:

So out of no where I had Michael on the ground in a choke hold convincing him I needed HIS 19" rifle Smiler

quote:

I like to go big. Looking forward too turning a couple zebra and wildebeest inside out late July.

Oh man, you are in for an experience with this. I suppose we are going have to find some Raptors for that mission. I think I am out of them? WOrst case, we can use the 335s and add some tips, but they wont' be magazine friendly. I will see what we can come up with for that mission. Raptors running the magazine would be best for that. I will also get busy with some H-4198 and see how that does in place of the RL 7 that I used in April too.

My boy Alasken-Oz---Not Ox, I have been calling him Ox all weekend! HEH HEH..... Well, the name fits, Oz is not a small boy! I told him old people like me we get confused on things and can't see so good--It's Oz, not Ox---

Anyway, Oz has made some new decisions while here--He is now building a 475 B&M Super Short. Man, he even put a choke hold on me, and took the Cammo stock off my 458 Super Short! Leaving with a stock gun with my camo stock, and will be going to work on that soon. Also, he has decided to build another Ruger Alaskan and this one in 475 B&M. These 3.4 inch magazine Ruger Alaskans work well--Load any of the BBW#13 NonCons--Add tip, magazine friendly, perfect fit. Only one thing, it's a 2 down gun, one in the spout. But I don't see that as a big issue at all, I have been to the field for the last 15 years with 3 only, never been a problem. Don't see it is now.

We all did a lot of Super Short shooting, all three of them, 458, 475, and 50. Neat little guns for sure. And now, with BBW#13s and custom North Forks, this takes all of them to another level for sure.

Should have Cross rifle very soon, as he mentioned, will be putting a Trijicon on it for him, working it a bit, making sure its a 100% before leaving! Will keep you guys posted on that too, and especially Cross! HEH..... I don't think he's too excited eh?


Brent, we really enjoyed the visit, make a plan to visit again and spend a little more time with us here! I am sure we can find something to do! LOL...........

Yes, both Paul and Andrew are working with 500 MDMs now. Both saw them work some magic and it was over for them as well. Now this trip to Paul I am going to show him some "Super Short" magic! LOL---then he is going to want one of those too, especially after he packs it a day or so.

Michael

We got Alasken Oz off this morning. I imagine he is now well into his trip home right now. Hoping for safe travels on the holiday. We did enjoy our visit with Oz a great deal.

But I have to say that when you guys visit, I find my racks are getting empty, and I have less rifles than what I had before hand??? How does that work? Oz got to rummaging over in the "Retired" rack, found Gun #5 50 B&M. First rifle built I think late 2006 with the current 1:12 twist rates that is now standard. It was also one of the rifles with the first heavier contour, and a T'SOB mounted in front of the receiver. Of course, it is now riding around with Oz on it's way to a new home. My stuff just keeps disappearing?

Oz is now building a new Ruger Alaskan in 475 B&M, and he changed his mind this morning, he is going to build a 458 Super Short instead of the 475 Super Short. You know, the Super Short, the ones that Oz thought was stupid! HEH HEH HEH............. Until you lay hands on anyway! Then you are trapped.

Hoping all you guys are having a good weekend!

Michael

quote:

Oz is now building a new Ruger Alaskan in 475 B&M, and he changed his mind this morning, he is going to build a 458 Super Short instead of the 475 Super Short. You know, the Super Short, the ones that Oz thought was stupid! HEH HEH HEH............. Until you lay hands on anyway! Then you are trapped.

Ok Michael you've raised almost as many questions as you'e answered! Is Oz building the 458 SS on a M70 WSSM action? Is he using a M77 SA action? Hopefully he's not using the standard length action for the Super Short! The peanut gallery needs "the rest of the story!"

You have a great weekend as well!

Jim

Yes, Oz is building on a Win M70 WSSM rifle he got from me, yesterday he was going to do a 475 B&M Super Short--Last night he went over the pressure data I gave him, discovered the 295 BBW#13 NonCon at over 2500 fps in the 458 Super Short, and that pretty much put an end to other considerations! HEH.......... So yes, a Win M70. I also let him talk me out of my camo stock I had on my 458 Super Short! I have nothing left after these guys leave!

Michael

Michael we have pictures of your gun racks! There may be a few empty slots but you're far from "nothing left"!!

Look at it this way...you're just doing some weeding out so that you can re-stock!!!

I am a bit "Obsessive-Compulsive" there is something that bugs me about having empty spaces in the racks! Those empty slots just seem, well, "Empty", and just does not seem to be uniform, or consistent! Don't like empty spaces there!




M

Hey

I don't feel so bad now--at least I sent my own hill-billy camo stock---


post a pic when mine comes in if its not to much trouble please Michael--

want to see how the funky color scheme came out.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I am a bit "Obsessive-Compulsive" there is something that bugs me about having empty spaces in the racks! Those empty slots just seem, well, "Empty", and just does not seem to be uniform, or consistent! Don't like empty spaces there!



M

Well heck that’s easy to resolve, very simple solutions.

Just consolidate the remaining rifles and remove one rack. Or just shuffle those rifles around so the empty slots are symmetrically spaced so brain will function properly… Or just fill those empty slots with replacement rifles!

There you go…your OCD is taken care of!!

I think filling the empty slots with replacements is the better Idea!



This will keep me from going>>>>>>>>


Couple of things--Brent needed some data on the 500 MDM and H-4198 with the 335 BBW#13 NonCon, for the Super Shorts. I got it to 2911 fps with H-4198 with no issues, but actually liked 2 grs less for 2886 a bit better. I took the RL 7 on up too from where I had it with the Raptors and had a nice 2851 fps load, no issues. Add a tip in this one and I imagine it would do a jam up job on most critters!

OK finally got one of the new GunKote rifles back, that fit in those nice Accurate Innovations stocks I have laying around here. This one is the 475 B&M I had been looking for, it arrived on Friday. It came in at a really good feeling 7.5 lbs with it's 18 inch barrel. I have been busy trying to work the action out so it smooths up some. Like all the gunkote rifles, it has some stiff spots that has to be sorted out. Most of the time, just some shooting and working the action does it.










We are expecting the new 50 B&M GunKote rifle to arrive tomorrow!!!!!

This will help put some rifles back in those empty slots!

Michael

Looks great Michael.

Michael

Thats one sweet shooting iron-

add a couple of white-line spacers and roll the cheekpiece and you have it made-



Seriously its beautiful, and if i ever need more than the 416 then the 475 will be at the head of the list, can't wait to start getting field reports on it.

SSR

I like the abbreviated ebony cap. Kinda like the dot on the exclamation point.
Michael, if you are only huntining out to 100 yards how about a 2 moa red dot with a 3x fixed magnification? The B&M's are an ideal package for the red dot. Especially the synthetic. Maybe Kalahari Cammo pattern for the synthetic stock.

This will help put some rifles back in those empty slots!

Michael[/QUOTE]


Well now, if you put a 9.3 in the rack that looks like one of those, i will just have to drive back down there and buy it.

Good looking wood in that stock.

DocM,

Great work and extremely interesting stuff. Had an off the wall question for you. What would a 404J, original cartridge, barrel down to say 20", loaded with your "wonder powders" behave like? Especially with a CEB #13 of around 300 grns? Any thoughts/comments?

Regards

Esskay

Will also post this on my favorite thread

Some thoughts on your question to Michael. Non cons and Raptors have been shown to be quite devastating down to .2 SD. For a .423 bullet that would be 250 grains. I'm guessing a 404 could throw a 250 grain bullet around 3k FPS. That would be quite devestating. The 416 raptor is 300 grains so you could extrapolate fairly closely what a 404 300 grain Non Con or Raptor could do. I think a 20" barrel on a 404 would be quite handy. Might lose about 100 FPS with the shorter barrel. If you had a 423 B&M you would gain about .6" in the same length of barrel all things being equal over the 404 Jeffery. The .423" bullets are ideal IMHO for being a B&M cart due to the B&M case being 2.25" in a short action and a shorter tip to crimp CIP specs for the 404. A 423 B&M could easily duplicate the 404 Jeffery factory loads.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Some thoughts on your question to Michael. Non cons and Raptors have been shown to be quite devastating down to .2 SD. For a .423 bullet that would be 250 grains. I'm guessing a 404 could throw a 250 grain bullet around 3k FPS. That would be quite devestating. The 416 raptor is 300 grains so you could extrapolate fairly closely what a 404 300 grain Non Con or Raptor could do. I think a 20" barrel on a 404 would be quite handy. Might lose about 100 FPS with the shorter barrel. If you had a 423 B&M you would gain about .6" in the same length of barrel all things being equal over the 404 Jeffery. The .423" bullets are ideal IMHO for being a B&M cart due to the B&M case being 2.25" in a short action and a shorter tip to crimp CIP specs for the 404. A 423 B&M could easily duplicate the 404 Jeffery factory loads.

___________________________________________

Boomy,
I agree with the thoughts of the 404 B&M. However, I was thinking more in terms of practicality, brass, head stamp issues, transportation across borders etc. Yes, I agree..a #13 CEB of around 250-270 grns at 2900 fps or so would be devastating. My question was/is if that is can be achieved in a 20" barrel. Kinda sorta a B&M (short barrel) but not the short action. I know DocM will beat me over the head for this sacrilegious thought...but perhaps I can bribe him with some GG or Sake when I visit

I am confident Michael and others could recommend the right powder to have the best performance in a 20" barrel. CEB already makes a 325 grain Non Con. https://cuttingedgebullets.com...y=DGBR-HP_K02_BBW_13

Cross, I like the 475 B&M as well, very pleased with the lineup of bullets for it too. Cutting Edge and North Forks--there will be nothing the 475 can't accomplish, I am sure of that. It is being a bit of a brass bitch however! Right now, brass has to be fire formed with a tight fit in the chamber for new un-fired brass. Can't work the trick with extruded powders like in the 9.3, 416, and 458.

Boomy, some years ago I worked with the Aimpoints quite a bit. No magnification. I had some issues seeing things proper when in the brush. If everything was open, no brush, and reasonable ranges, then no problems. But in the field I find I almost always have brush to contend with. So I am not so sure about the red dots for me. Good eyes! For sure.

Brent, my 19 inch 9.3 B&M is at Accurate Innovations right now and is supposed to get fitted with a super duper turkish Wes has been holding for me. I hope to have it for the Australian trip. Should be pretty nice. I think I will have to hide it away somewhere for your next visit! HEH........

Esskay, ok, short answer to most of your questions is this, I don't know! As I have never messed with .423 nor 404 J I can only make some educated guesses. I think of inside barrel volume, as in cubic inches. The bigger the bore size, the more inside the barrel volume in which to burn powder. Let's take a 20 inch .500 and a 20 inch .416. If you try and burn the same amount of powder in each barrel, which one is going to have more inside barrel volume in which to consume this same amount of powder? Easy, the .500. Now, lets assume we are talking the 2.25 inch B&Ms. The 50 B&M at 18 inches is just about optimum for inside volume capacity with the amount of powder the B&Ms burn. Go to 20 inches there are no gains at all. Going to 22 inches as in Oz's rifle this weekend, we gain 12.5 fps per inch of barrel. Not much, and to me, not worth the extra length and weight to gain 50 fps in 4 inches. At 16 inches of barrel we start to loose a bit, but only about 20 fps per inch, still not a lot, but a loss non the less.

As bore size goes down, we start to see more of a loss as we have decreased the inside volume in which to burn. Example, the 416 B&M. Most 416 B&Ms are 20 inches. As an example load the 350 Barnes Banded with 73/AA 2520. Not a light load, but 20 inches gives us 2480 fps in one rifle I have here. In my 18 inch Camo gun this same loads gives us 2338 fps--dropping a grain of powder to 72/AA 2520 we get 2342 fps--no loss at all, meaning we are blowing that extra grain out the end with zero effect either way. I have tested the 350 with 73/AA 2520 out of the 24 inch 1885 and get 2503 fps---as you can see, very little gain for 4 extra inches of barrel. Yet, a fairly large loss of velocity going from 20 to 18, 140 fps for those two inches. With other bullets we loose much less than that from 20 to 18, and I am willing to make some sacrifices based on the handling ability of the shorter lighter rifle. I have a specific purpose in mind for it, and not a general purpose rifle. For the things I would do with the little 18 inch 416 B&M it is more than capable of handling, so with some bullets and some powders I take that sacrifice gladly to achieve other desirable results.

But, the point being, the 404 J uses more powder in the bigger case, so there will be a likely loss of velocity overall. Depends totally on your objectives for the rifle you want. Can you accomplish any mission or the mission you have in mind and do it better with better handling qualities? I think you can. Estimate at most I think 40 fps per inch, that is 180 fps total--in some bullets and loads it can be more, some less. Probably easy run 400 gr bullets at 2250-2300 I would think, and that is more than enough, even at 2200 it will still do what you would need on the heavies. Lighter, for sure your velocities would be more than adequate to accomplish any thin skinned mission in which you would embark upon. The handling qualities of a big bore, at 20 inches makes a hell of a difference out in the field, one that I am more than willing to sacrifice to make those gains. I don't give a damn what cartridge or caliber, I will never live long enough to tote a 24 inch bolt gun around again. Even just carrying one to the range to do test work with I wonder to myself how and why did I ever do that for so long? Fatter cartridges are in fact more efficient at burning their powders than longer skinnier ones. The 404, RUMs are more efficient than the longer equal capacity H&H based cases. This is no doubt, I have plenty of both here and see it every day. And as bore size increases from 9.3 to .500 you see efficiency grow with each step up in caliber, even to a point that as with the 50 B&M, you are wasting time, weight, and portability, to go more than 18 inches, and the same with 458 and 416 more than 20. 18-20 is fine with 458-475, more is not much of a gain, with a lot more length and weight. From 9.3 to 416, 20 is about right, less length you start to loose.

Of course there are so many excellent powders to work with, and todays bullet tech, you can easy negate any loss you might find in 4 inches of barrel. You still may loose some, but it would not be significant in the real world compared to the gains in handling ability of your rifle. I say go ahead and do it!

Michael

Esskay,

Michael has pretty well covered things in his post even though he doesn't own a .423 caliber rifle.

My .423 caliber rifle is being built as I'm typing, and it'll be my first, so take things for what that's worth.

I'm going with a 21" barrel primarily for a balanced look to the rifle as I'm a 14 1/4" to 14 1/2" LOP. Plus I can always shorten it if needed at a later date. So that barrel length is a win-win for me.

So back to your question...what is the actual overflow water capacity of your full length resized brass? Next, what is the inside length of your rifle's magazine? With this information I can run some QL scenarios for you.

I have a little treat for you guys. Lionhunter found us a very talented Leather Man out near where he lives in CA. Mike designed some cartridge holders specifically for the B&M cartridges. Sent the guy some buffalo and elephant leather he had, then told me about it as well. Of course nothing would do, but I got a package together and sent some "Green" elephant leather I have on hand here. Green because that is how one elephant I had done some years ago come. The rest of my elephant leather is all that beautiful blueish/gray I love so good. I asked if he could dye this green elephant, and he can without issue dye it any color I want. No--I don't want any "Pink" elephant! Unless I have been in the Grey Goose too much! OH YES--Forgot to tell you boys about my little stash of real SC MoonShine I had given to me the other week--it is VERY good as well. Some of that, I might see pink elephants for sure!

So at any rate, Mike has some of his in hand now and sent some photos;

Here is Mikes 458 B&M in the back ground, along with a 5 round Cape Buffalo holder brown, and a 10 round Elephant in my favorite gray!




Here is a 15 round culling belt designed by LionHunter, all cartridges sit above the belt line and finger/thumb space in between for ease of extraction. Very Nice!



And I think a combo of the brown buffalo and gray elephant leather 10 round cartridge holder.




I also sent out one of my favorite slings, one of those galco slings I have used for 15 yrs or longer. I like the shape and design of that sling, so I want to have Henry duplicate that in elephant leather, dyed black and some dyed dark brown as well. I have Five 5 round cartridge holders ordered, 4 10 round cartridge holders ordered, all black with that elephant leather I sent.

If you have any leather hanging around and don't know what to do with it, get in touch with Henry, info below;

Henry Flores
Falcon's Forge & Leather Works
18695 Vierra Canyon Rd
Prunedale, CA 93907

408-930-8682

I can hardly wait to get mine! Lionhunter says it is First Class, and that is more than good enough for me! I talked to Henry and he seems like a super guy, and Lionhunter has met with him and I think we have a WINNER here for these sort of things.

Soon as I get a chance to I am going to put this on the B&M site as well.

Good Stuff!

Michael

Damnation boy----

I have a tanned Buff hide that a friend of left with me to make things out of-- you had have now started a whole new problem for me--------



problems like this are good--

any one needs some tanned Cape BUFF hide lets start trading--

So lets make a plan.

SSR

Hey Michael,

Thanks for posting the pics. Note that the bottom pic shows a 10 rd. slide made from Black Cape Buff w/Grey Elephant used for the bottom welt.

I'd like to add my highest endorsement of Henry's work. We spent over three hours together designing the cartridge holders and culling belt for the B&M series of cartridges. He was provided dummy B&M rounds to ensure proper fit. Because of the short, large case of the B&M I found all my cartridge slides and carriers did not fit the B&M rounds properly. I wanted the shell cases to extend above the belt line and to be spaced so as to allow a thumb and forefinger to withdraw individual rounds smoothly.

Henry can make these products from cowhide or from your own tanned exotic leather. He may also have a limited amount of exotic leather available for an additional fee. We consulted on pricing as this was his first venture into safari products; most of his work has been in the field of western and police leather products. All products are prominently marked "Made in the U.S.A." on the rear side for returning through U.S. Customs.

Base Prices, which are fair and competitive for the quality:

5 rd. slide = $80
10 rd. slide = $100
10 rd. culling belt = $210
15 rd. culling belt = $250
8" culling belt extender = $40

I highly recommend the belt extender if you will be wearing your culling belt over an outer jacket in cold weather or if you are subject to putting on a few pounds.

Falcon's Forge has a small website and Henry has avoided using email. Both issues will change in the future, but for now he can only be reached via telephone between the hours of 9:00-5:00 Pacific Time at 408-930-8682.

I will try to answer any questions. I have no $$ interest whatsoever in Falcon's Forge, just trying to help my fellow B&M users and a great craftsman.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Hey Michael,

Thanks for posting the pics. Note that the bottom pic shows a 10 rd. slide made from Black Cape Buff w/Grey Elephant used for the bottom welt.

I'd like to add my highest endorsement of Henry's work. We spent over three hours together designing the cartridge holders and culling belt for the B&M series of cartridges. He was provided dummy B&M rounds to ensure proper fit. Because of the short, large case of the B&M I found all my cartridge slides and carriers did not fit the B&M rounds properly. I wanted the shell cases to extend above the belt line and to be spaced so as to allow a thumb and forefinger to withdraw individual rounds smoothly.

Henry can make these products from cowhide or from your own tanned exotic leather. He may also have a limited amount of exotic leather available for an additional fee. We consulted on pricing as this was his first venture into safari products; most of his work has been in the field of western and police leather products. All products are prominently marked "Made in the U.S.A." on the rear side for returning through U.S. Customs.

Base Prices, which are fair and competitive for the quality:

5 rd. slide = $80
10 rd. slide = $100
10 rd. culling belt = $210
15 rd. culling belt = $250
8" culling belt extender = $40

I highly recommend the belt extender if you will be wearing your culling belt over an outer jacket in cold weather or if you are subject to putting on a few pounds.

Falcon's Forge has a small website and Henry has avoided using email. Both issues will change in the future, but for now he can only be reached via telephone between the hours of 9:00-5:00 Pacific Time at 408-930-8682.

I will try to answer any questions. I have no $$ interest whatsoever in Falcon's Forge, just trying to help my fellow B&M users and a great craftsman.

Thanks for the info Mike. I have leather from 2 buffalo just finished and an entire Ele Bull being tanned right now. I'll try to send him some business!

Todd

DocM & Capo,

Doc, thank you very much for that dissertation. Makes a lot of sense and points me in the right direction .

Regards

Esskay

Right now I am thinking a 5 rd slide and a 10 rd culling belt (with extender--cold weather ya know) like i said I have a great buff hide in black can make most out of that but might like some Grey elle as shown on the bottom.

And i have asked before--would love one of Michaels slings--I shoot slung and those look super.

My hope would be getting a belt by the end of July.

Count on me for an order-

SSR

Cross & Todd-

You guys won't regret trusting your african leather to Falcon's Forge.

I neglected to mention that Henry molds the slides so that they are curved to fit around your waist more comfortably, as you can see in the pics (if you look closely), unlike most slides that are made flat. I designed the backs to have cutouts so that you can thread your belt through the slide and your pants belt loops, if desired, for stability. More time and effort in the making but it results in a better product, IMO.

These are each 100% custom handmade and become a great and usable trophy of your safari. Although I've had gun cases, albums, boots and belts, etc. made from my african trophy hides, it's taken me 15 years to find a leather maker talented enough to work with in creating safari grade cartridge belts and slides. Henry is that guy.

Mike did an excellent job with Henry getting what he knows we need. Curved to fit around the waist better, spaced out so you can easy get your hands on one round at a time, and of course the right length for the B&Ms.

I think on other cartridges you will need to send some dummies along with your leather. This not only ensures you get the right size, but Henry also molds the individual holders with the cartridge in them so things fit perfect.

As for the slings, I am not going to ask Henry to cut and weave like my Galcos are, but just the general shape of the sling itself, solid leather throughout. I sent one for him to go by. These are not big ugly slings, they have worked perfect for me for 15 yrs, they have holes in the ends so you can adjust to your length and rifle. I will have some done in black, and Mike said that dark brown would look great with the wood on some of my rifles, so for sure when I speak to Henry I will get some dark brown done as well, I concur with Mike on that. Black for tactical, Dark Brown for Safari! Black ones will be nice on the black Ultimate rifles too! But, I also later will send Henry some of my blueish/gray elephant that I love so good for slings.

Mike has found us a winner for sure, thanks Mike for the designs, and turning us on to Henry!

Soon as I get some of my things I will get some more photos for you. But if you want something done, don't dilly dally around, Henry needs some time to get it done right for you.

Michael

Oh, one more bit of Info. When I spoke to Henry I told him to keep all the dummies he had for the B&Ms, some of Mikes, and I sent some as well. Mike, no worries buddy, I will send you some more with this next ammo! Henry needs them more! LOL...............

So if you are sending for a B&M, no worries about dummy rounds. Henry has them.

Michael