Very interesting… I just checked two full threads and your website and can’t find a photograph of either the new 450gr .500 CEB BBW#13 FN Solid or the brand spanky new 410gr .500 CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon… You need to post for the peanut gallery!

Anyway, that should be a very nice low pressure low recoil paired loading setup for your new 500 MDM owner guy – and a darn good way to get rid of that soft Horneber brass. Just remind the new guy that they’re only to be used with the low pressure loadings.

quote:

No, won't be at any other shows---I only do DSC

Michael, are the entry standards at the other shows too high? :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

No, won't be at any other shows---I only do DSC

Michael, are the entry standards at the other shows too high? :-)

Oh For F**K Sakes Beibs, they let your ugly stink ass in, so I should not have a problem!


HEH HEH HEH..............................


Jim--Its a FINE looking TOP SECRET, Michael Bullet! LOL..........................Stealthy!

There have been no Photos of this 450 yet, nor the new 410 NonCon maybe the next day or so........

Got the 500 MDM back with it's new engraving today, stuck the Trijicon RMR on top of it, took it to the range, gave it a bit of a workout! Slung some brass against the far wall, gave it some "rough" treatment, and feed, function, retain 100% perfect, all loads equal to the other two 500s, everything running SMOOTH so far! Damn good start. Will photo this thing too, this Trijicon RMR is, well, lets say interesting right now!

Hmmmmm?????

Michael

Doc M,
See if you can beat this:

One quote to me from Captech regarding 400 Whelen brass:

Custom brass from Captech:
$700 for the custom headstamp.
10,000-piece minimum run.
The purchaser must take any overrun +/- 10%.
They require the price of the headstamp tooling plus raw materials as a down payment to begin the run.
The balance must be paid before they will headstamp the brass.


I'll be waiting for Peter Cardona at Quality Cartridge to make some more 400 Whelen head-stamped cylindrical.

RIP


Ouch! I was hoping for a little better than that???????

Custom Head Stamped brass is very very difficult to come by, most of the guys do not realize how much and how difficult it is. I know through JD that Hornady and some of the bigger guys will only even think about it in 100'000 piece lots! Honestly, that is a bit out of my league! By a long margin, much cheaper to engrave (for Example) 500MDM/375RUM on it than attempt brass. Pete was a bargain with small lots, if he could get the basic brass, which is not out there right now! And, no idea when more might be available????

I still intend to speak with Captech however, and see what I can sort out with them??

Michael

Just a thought have brass with B&M head stamp only in basic cylinder. That way all B&M cartridges will be covered in one run of brass.

I don't know how some customs agents would be about no caliber designation on a cartridge case ?

quote:

Originally posted by coyote wacker:
Just a thought have brass with B&M head stamp only in basic cylinder. That way all B&M cartridges will be covered in one run of brass.

I don't know how some customs agents would be about no caliber designation on a cartridge case ?

Maybe? Who knows? Probably be just fine. I don't have such a major issue with the setup fee, it's the minimum 10000 Pieces, and how much per piece? $2 each would be reasonable in my opinion.

If I could split that 10000 with several of the B&Ms then it is worth looking at. I would want cylinder to begin with--I don't want anyone forming these other than owners, or myself anyway. 10000 split 50 B&M, 458 B&M, 416 B&M, maybe 9.3 would not be off the wall, if per piece price was within reason. I would want 500 MDM as well.

When I can catch my damned breath I will see.

I received 5 new B&Ms today, opened two, nice 18 inch 458 B&M stainless, Ultimate Stock! New 475 B&M Super Short black Ultimate. I have not opened the other three, but I think one of them is Kevin Grays 375 B&M---Which I cannot get in touch with Kevin---KEVIN are you Out there Somewhere????

Tell you something else too-- I am SICK TO F**K**G Death of this 500 MDM Project!!!!!!! Rifle set up with the Trijicon RMR--Working perfect, shooting perfect, everything about it 100% good to go, but I am SICK OF WORKING THIS GDamned brass, trimming, blowing out, trimming again, loading...testing to make sure...................sick of it I tell you! How in the hell do I get caught up in these projects??????

Michael

Michael

Trouble is that you are happier being miserable playing with guns than having fun doing (almost) anything else

especially fishing---

Cross

Yeah, I reckon so, but maybe just the time constraints, shortage of brass, and powder as well. JHC guys, there is NO POWDER, NO PRIMERS, NO BRASS, to be had out there---this BS Politics shit has the entire market dried up completely! I scrounged around and found 50 or so lbs of various powders that I use from several different places, but some of the stuff I still feel a little short on!!!!! No primers at all to be had, glad I have most of what I will need for a year or so.

I have 120 of the 350 loaded now--Working brass again this weekend!!!!!!!!!!

Fishing? Last time I went fishing I spent 12 hours on a boat off the coast of South Africa doing this ALL DAY---

NO FISHING FOR ME--That crap is Dangerous!

Michael

It's a PERFET STORM and we can thank Obamasama for it! No Powder, no primers, no brass, and guess what? There's no loaded ammo out there either! I decided to buy a few boxes of pistol ammo in various calibers for my handguns and, boy, was I surprised! And not in a good way.

I checked for .22wmr, .380acp, .38spl, 9mmluger, .357mag, .44spl, .44mag, .460S&W and .500S&W. There is very little available and choices of loads are far from ideal. And the dealer prices were not what I remember paying not so long ago.

Unfortunately, I don't see things getting better anytime soon, so if you can find it, buy it, 'cause the next time you need it you might not find it!

Just for you MM. Ha-Ha!

Just got back from a local gun show it was crazy, wall to wall people.

Friday is free day to get in,there was 200 tables set-up. No powder maybe a couple 1000 primers at $60 a 1000 very little brass, one guy had bullets .224 55gr. FMJ $250 1000.

Dealers had 1/3 of what is normally on display. 5 AR's at $2495. AR 5 round mags $19.95, 30 round P Mags $79.95. Handguns at MSRP, dealers had people three deep filling out paper work.

I should have cashed in the 401K in October, I would have made a million dollars. Could have made up for what I lost in the past 6 years.

Count me in for (300) 500 mdm brass!

quote:

Originally posted by brent ebeling:
Count me in for (300) 500 mdm brass!

quote:

Just for you MM. Ha-Ha!

Went fishing one time with some TNT. Put 1 stick down, barely got bubbles, rather disappointing. Put 10 sticks down--It got real serious then! HEH......................

Have called a few up on the crank telephone too!

Now that's my kind of fishing! Just give them a "Call"

Thought I would show you the Winchester M70 500 MDM that I am working with getting ready for this fellow and his 10 elephants and 10 buffalo! He requested this Trijicon RMR sight installed for his hunt. It really is very interesting, and doing a hell of a good job so far. I am rather impressed with it.










I am of course under some serious time constraints here, in fact I only have about another week or so before this has to go out, along with 350 rounds of 500 MDM.

If I had more time, I would have liked to investigate a couple of different mounting positions of this Trijicon, and specifically would like to see how it would work on the rear of the receiver, and on a lower mount just in front of the receiver on the barrel--Would have liked to have tried that both ways and see how it comes up. It does very good right now, where it is. The other two positions I would have to have Brian make bases to fit. Currently it is hanging on tight, and zero issues where it is now.

Michael

Mike, great looking stock on that .500

I'm interested to hear more of your options for mounting a sight like this.
I've been playing around with a few here back home, for my Lott, but can't seem to get any mounted low enough to get a good comfortable "cheek-weld" to the stock when sighting.

Paul.

With red dot sights like this, the closer to the eye you mount it the more field of view you get.

Does anyone here tried the Trijicon triangle RMR ?

Pyzda

You have mounted the red-dot in the correct position. I've done this on Winchesters and Rugers in .458Lott and .458B&M, as well as on S&W and Ruger large bore revolvers - .500, .480 & .460.

Mounting on the rear base can cause interference with and smashed fingers from the bolt operation, especially when in rapid fire. Mounting it forward, as you have done, is more conducive to shooting with both eyes open. There is no field of view issue as these are non-magnifing devices, unlike a scope. They are intended to be used with both eyes open, but even if you close an eye it is not an issue because what you see outside of the sight is at the same 1x you see through the sight.

I have never had a recoil problem and have fired 1,000s of large bore rounds using different brands of red-dots.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:
Mike, great looking stock on that .500

I'm interested to hear more of your options for mounting a sight like this.
I've been playing around with a few here back home, for my Lott, but can't seem to get any mounted low enough to get a good comfortable "cheek-weld" to the stock when sighting.

Paul.

Pauly! HEh..

Yes, that is a nice piece of wood XXEnglish, this one was built before your gun, have had it awhile, have threatened to keep it.......But think it is going to a better place and destined for glory now! HEH .........

I think Mike has it right below, it is in about the perfect place for a fighting rifle, in front, don't get in the way of loading, gun handling, this sort of thing. This Trijicon sits a bit lower than almost all I have tried so far, not quite perfect, but low enough that you can get used to it.

I know exactly what you are talking about. They do stick up a bit. .

I used the two slot Leupold bases on this. The front one has two slots in it, and the Trijicon sits perfect in those two slots.

So far this thing is shooting great all 1 hole at 25. I have to move back to 50 this week, and I am not so sure how good I will be able to group at 50 with it--It won't be the rifle, ammo, or sight if not in a hole, will be Michael and the eyes! For close work inside 25 yds, open ground, not thick brush, this thing is the Cats Ass for being extremely fast and on target! I simply have to work more with these things in the future for myself!

Mike, I think you have it correct on the mounting issues. I think about perfect, or close, if I got Brian to make a base to fit right in front of the receiver, backed up to the receiver and as low as he can make it work. You see, there is some room above the barrel and the bottom of the sight, could get
it a tiny bit lower mounting on the barrel there.


Michael

Michael,
When using a "red dot" type of sight on several guns in the past. I used a leather laced on cheek pad to raise the comb height. On my Marlin 1895 45-70 it made a big difference not having your head floating above the stock.

Unless I missed it, haven't read anything about the 300gr..500 CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon W/tip. I went to the CEB web site nothing.

With a compress load what is the longest you have stored ammo ?

Over time will it effect velosity ?

My reason for asking I was dissembling some 30-06 reloaded ammo from a unknown source. The boxes were labeled IMR-4350 59 gr. that is a compressed load. To get the powder out I had to use a wire to brake up the clump in the case. It was loaded in 1984, if I had a 30-06 I would have liked to run to over the chronograph to see what the velocity was. But I never shoot anybodies handloads.

Coyote

Yes, I have used those leather lace cheek pads, have a few around here now, and you are correct on the Marlins, thats what I used them for. They do work, ugly but work.

Dan can't keep up with all the bullets I have him make! HEH.......... Can't get them on the website before I have another one in the works! I have some on hand from that first run if you need some. Not many left however. We may have to get another run of them, they do pretty good.

Compressed load? Actually I used to compress hell out of 458 Win and 458 Lott--I still have some of that stuff that was loaded probably 7-10 yrs now. Today, I don't think its the powder or the compressed load as much as it is "environmental" conditions the ammo is stored in. I don't believe there would be an issue at all with the ammo I have that is compressed, if kept in a proper storage, reasonable temps, not humid, that sort of thing. My ammo is kept that way, so I don't think there is a problem with that.

M

Goodies from B&M:

RIP

Had to send out some of that "Propaganda" I have here!

LOL....................

Michael

Well the big 500 MDM project is finished now. Rifle shooting extremely good with the Trijicon RMR. I tested at 50 yards first time the other day, and I really did not think I would be able to see good enough with the red dot to shoot as good as it did. 3 bullets all within POI--450 BBW#13 Solid at 2250 fps, 450 North Fork CPS 2250 fps, and 450 BBW#13 NonCon at 2350 fps, all within an inch elevation, all windage center at 50. All shooting less than an inch individual groups with the Red Dot 3.25 MOA--which I am extremely pleased with. This is a very viable system for Dangerous Game.

Just More FYI.............

Michael

Have you tried the 2.5" 500 version in the 500 MDM?
Have you tried the 50 B&M in the 2.5" version?
like the win mag 458 Lott thing.
The neck area will be moved forward on the shorter one but thought you could use downloaded shorter ones for plinking and practice.

Boomy

I don't have a 2.5 inch .500 yet---Designated 500 B&M. Still just in the works, will be some time, Dave has got behind or lost making the reamer, and I have been so busy with other things I have not pushed the issue.

I have shot 50 B&M--2.25 inches, in the mighty 500 MDM several times. Actual lower velocity loads shot quite well, I thought I was on to something until I started going up in velocity, and the accuracy went to hell then. Was testing full 50 B&M loads with talon tips in the big magazine. But it just became too much bullet jump from 50 B&M in that 2.8 inch chamber, not good for accuracy. Worked every time however, just FYI for those who doubt Extractor head space concept!

Michael

Michael ,
Thank you for the "propaganda" package. It arrived at a perfect time.

I'am going to have a local gentleman and one that is driving 4 hours to see and shoot my 50 B&M SS tomorrow. Its been close to 0 degrees at night,so I froze a half dozen 5 gallon buckets to make ice blocks and have a couple tannerite surprise targets for them to shoot at. I also have a couple 8" steel "gongs" to make it a little interesting for some 100 to 200 yard shots.

Afterwards some of the wife's bear chili, beer and some Wild Select Cut Blackberry. And watch the B&M DVD.

I still can't shoot because of my shoulder and back. I'am starting to get a real bad twitch in my trigger finger from not shooting.

Coyote

Very welcome, no thanks needed.

Frozen ice blocks and other goodies, and big steel gongs, always fun shooting! Load up some #13 Solids for the ice blocks! That should be interesting!

Just so happens, myself and the "B" in the B&M are having Chili ourselves tomorrow afternoon over at his place! Regular cow chili however! LOL.......... Let me know what you think about the DVD.

Must get healed up and back to shooting! I have been at it nearly every day this week, will be on the range tomorrow as well!

Michael

Michael:

I am kind of a 9,3 guy. I have two 9,3X62s as well as a 9,3X74R. I have been looking at that little 9,3 B&M. I know that you think the .375s and .366s are rat guns after your trip to Australia. I am wondering, what kind of game is the 9,3 B&M capable of taking with the CEB bullets? Is it a buffalo cartridge?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Michael:

I am kind of a 9,3 guy. I have two 9,3X62s as well as a 9,3X74R. I have been looking at that little 9,3 B&M. I know that you think the .375s and .366s are rat guns after your trip to Australia. I am wondering, what kind of game is the 9,3 B&M capable of taking with the CEB bullets? Is it a buffalo cartridge?

Dave,

Buffalo are just not impressed with the medium calibers, and neither am I. Buffalo start to get impressed as caliber increases. And by impressed I mean show serious reactions to taking a hit.

For sure, with really super bullets you can kill all the heavies with 9.3 and 375, and even 338 and 358, but that just don't mean because you can kill them that it is proper knockdown medicine for them. Absolutely we know we can enhance any cartridge and caliber by proper bullet design---But we still have not been able to turn a 9.3/375 into a 458 +++

The 3 bullets from CEB that I work with in the 9.3 B&M are incredible--the 280 #13 Solid is the best of the best for hitting hard as possible up front, and driving deep and straight. It's matching 255 NonCon is great. But for all MEDIUM things, I have seen no mediums perform for medium missions like that 210 gr Raptor. For that 9.3 B&M I could easy do with that one bullet for everything one would do, or I would do, with a 9.3 caliber cartridge. In a pinch, I would shoot buffalo with it if I had to, and doubt seriously I would recover a bullet. I would do it carefully, broadside or slight angle one way or the other, but the days of me hunting buffalo with a 9.3 have not come to fruitation, and most likely never will, not on purpose.

Dangerous game, leopard, lion, bear, thin skinned, absolutely, the 9.3 would be very good on these, and I would use only the 210 Raptor for them.

Your Direct Question;

Is it a buffalo cartridge?

Answer: No.......And No goes for anything under 416 caliber.

Everything else up to the heavies, buffalo, elephant, and hippo. And one bullet, 210 Raptor.

You really should check that 210 Raptor out with any 9.3 you have in a bolt or single shot. It is a horribly wicked bullet, that well proved itself on zebra, wildebeast, hartebeast, impala, and various other critters. Wildebeast and Zebra are notoriously tough to put in the dirt.

Michael

Dave I agree with Michael on the 9.3 or any medium caliber for buffalo. I know they will kill big stuff but killing and stopping are two different things. I watched Michael smack a Austrailian buffalo with his 9.3 and even though he was making good hits the buffalo just didn't want to go down. The interesting thing was when Michael's son Mark hit that same buffalo with a little 475 Super Short with a 320 grain bullet it made a real impression on that buffalo. He hit the dirt. The impacts of the larger diameter bullets were easily seen in the effect they had on buffalo verses the 9.3. In a pinch a 308 with the right bullet will kill the big stuff just fine but I wouldn't want to hunt the big stuff with just a medium caliber.

Sam

"... Let me know what you think about the DVD."

Michael, Doc M,
Some feedback on the "Propaganda Package" until Coyote Wacker gets back to you. Get well soon Coyote Wacker:

Top quality production values on that DVD.
Watched it with my wife, and she could not believe B&M was just a hobby for you. I could tell she was relieved to know that there is someone nuttier than I am about this stuff,
made believable by the fact that Saeed's website here is also just "hobby fun" for him.
What did JD say about "time and money?"

But the "propaganda" only scratches the surface. You could start a feature length DVD series, and/or put out a big book of history, hunts, techniciana, and reloading manual.
Maybe a digital compilation on CDs and a paper reloading manual, for handy use at the reloading bench.
Sort of like the successor to "Any Shot You Want" by Art Alphin/A-Square.
New century, new book, backed up with the lab results on penetration.
It is mind blowing, what you have accomplished.
B&M Cartridges and Rifles: The Big Fat Book
Or several volumes.
One volume at least devoted to bullet developments and penetration results.
Until then we have the threads at Accurate Reloading Dotcom.

You have taken it to a new level.
Keep up the good work, you mad man.

Michael,
Yesterday the guy's had a "blast", I didn't shoot I'am not taking any chances 2 more weeks and Doc said some light shooting.

The neighbors around the farm tolerate my shoot range but somebody didn't like there windows getting rattled by the tannerite targets. The local sheriff stopped by to see what was going on,so I let him shoot the B&M 50 SS a couple times. He had a smile on his face ear to ear after touching off the first round, asking if he could shoot it some more.

We watched the B&M DVD the first comment after it was over, "sure glad it wasn't another one of those hero hunting promotional DVD's" I as very impressed with how you presented B&M.

It was a very enjoyable day with new friends and possibly some more members to the B&M family.

I'll echo the DVD comments - Very well done indeed!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

Dave,


You really should check that 210 Raptor out with any 9.3 you have in a bolt or single shot. It is a horribly wicked bullet, that well proved itself on zebra, wildebeast, hartebeast, impala, and various other critters. Wildebeast and Zebra are notoriously tough to put in the dirt.

Michael

Will do, Thanks.

RIP

Thanks, and I am happy to help out with the wife, now she knows you are not so bad and someone out there just the same or even worse maybe! LOL............

As for the rest, Big book, or all the rest, well, maybe, when I grow up someday! LOL............

Coyote

Very excellent, how about those Ice Buckets??? Glad the Sheriff got in line with what was going on too! Absolutely no Hero Hunter promotional here, in fact, I really did not even want to be in the DVD at all, but could not be helped in some cases, since I was the only "Model" available when some of the shooting was done! DVD is just an intro as to what is going on, basics only, and then further info find on the website. The boys that put it together I think did a really classy job, I was pleased with it.

Thanks Jim!

Michael

quote:

I was the only "Model" available when some of the shooting was done!

I wish there'd have been more shooting examples, perhaps including the 500 MDM, as the shooting example definately 'showed' how little the recoil is with the Tri-Fecta (rifle, cartridge, bullet) package.

Oops… Also would have been nice to have shown a full side-by-side lineup of the B&M cartridges 9.3 through .500 (including the new 500 B&M) and to have shown short snippets of actual bullet impact upon DG animals…especially from the .500 caliber line – SS through the MDM…

But as is - very well done!

[QUOTE]
Very excellent, how about those Ice Buckets???

I made up 12 ice blocks and they shot them laying in a cylinder position on a table top. The ones shot with the Remington 385 gr. were not as spectacular as the CEB 345 gr. bullets.

Rem.385 gr. would leave the back 1/4 a solid block of ice. With small pieces of jacket and lead on the table top, it looked like only 6" of penetration. When hit by the CEB 345 gr. it was more like a explosion it was hard to tell how much penetration because the pieces were no bigger than a soft ball. A couple pedals were found on the table top.

One of the guys wanted to shoot one of the ice blocks with his Glock 27 40 S&W carry gun, at 30' it took him 6 shots to bust the block up.

It wasn't a controlled experiment of bullet performance but, beat the hell out of paper punching. The great part come spring there's no mess at my range.

quote:

to have shown short snippets of actual bullet impact upon DG animals…

Jim, I have never allowed video on any of my hunts. Many many times I wished I would have had just exactly what you are talking about, but I hate video. I am quite sure as soon as the camera rolls I would do something completely STUPID! No way in hell I am going to get caught being stupid! I may tell you I did something Stupid, But I ain't gonna show you I did something Stupid!


Would have liked to have video of the elephant gonna eat me, but then again, all that caused by me doing something STUPID!!!!!!! Or maybe the next day the buffalo gonna eat me, but I did not do anything stupid on that one! But I might have if cameras were rolling!!!!!!! HEH........


Coyote

quote:

When hit by the CEB 345 gr. it was more like a explosion it was hard to tell how much penetration because the pieces were no bigger than a soft ball. A couple pedals were found on the table top.

Now we have found yet another use for the NonCons-- "Ice Busters"

quote:

The great part come spring there's no mess at my range.

Now that is something to consider! No Mess, No Fuss Cleanup! Very Excellent. Next time line a couple of blocks together and try one of the 375 gr Solids! YES.......

Big Fun----It was Matthews Birthday this past weekend, I gave him the 50 B&M Super Short that he used in Australia for his buffalo shooting. He was rather pleased with that. Little Gun, big hammer!

Michael