Dunno about you guys, but I am willing to pony up an extra twenty-five bucks if it will help. That's half a tank of gas for the car.

Rich

No, absolutley not, I am not charging anyone more for this. I truely appreciate the offers but keep the gas money....if the pundits are correct you'll need it. The amount isn't huge per pin but to get someoen to do ti correctly you need ot order larger qtys so that's where it get's expensive. But for me it's an investment because I know that I will sell every one of these once they are inventory.
Have a good weeekend all!
Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Karl,

we did something about it after bitching a couple years...

RubLine, and the rest of you

I made a little money in the stock market in both 2008 and 2009. How'd your investments do? Have you "Mother F-ked" your broker in public yet? Call him Monday morning and have him liquidate your portfolio. That would teach him to mess with you!! Same for the rest of you who want to bail.
You will do better than the $$$ you put into the market the past few years...

Here's The Deal: Jeff it trying to keep the company from tanking like so many of his suppliers have in the last eighteen months. Pay some outfit (up front) to make your firing pins. They take your money, get the tooling, decide to stick you a little more since they got you over the barrel. By time you get to court to enforce the written contract you have with them, they decide to just file bankruptcy, not notify you because technically they can show they don't owe you in court (since they have not defaulted on you specifically), and sell the tooling you paid for to somebody else who will offer to build you firing pins for about five times the original quote, before you can attend the bankruptcy sale and buy the tooling back.

That is just one of the three big problems Jeff faced.

The other two: One is the general collapse of the economy. The other is his choice of people to be in business with, and that is for you to call him and ask...

THE BOTTOM LINE HERE: he can't shit them, he has to get a dependable machine shop to make them at a price he can afford to pay for them. They ain't doing much "good faith and a handshake" these days in the machine shop industry.

I'm frustrated myself. I paid up front for my pair like the rest of you. But, there is nothing to be gained by bitching, except calluses on your finger tips pounding the keyboard. This is like arguing with your wife...

Rich

When you buy Tylenol you exchange money for a product. The retailer needs to give you the Tylenol to live up to their end of the deal.

When you buy Johnson and Johnson stock you are purchasing a small piece of the company with the hopes of making money if the overall value goes up. The company tries to maximize profits to live up to their end of the deal but there are no guarantees.

Your points on this thread would be valid if people had in fact invested in MRC with the understanding that all might be lost if things didn't work out. MRC did not call and say "we have a semi finished prototype and we need more money to get the casting off the ground in hopes of making this action work". What they did say was "We will ship in a few months and we need final payment on your order". I'm sure you will agree those are two very different things. I'm sure MRC took their wording into consideration when they made those calls because they needed to raise the most capital possible.

Like everything in life it is about expectations. MRC said the actions were shipping and they weren't even close to being ready. MRC did not live up to what was presented. If MRC was completly candid with people in Spring of 2008 their expectations would have been different as they would have been better informed as to what they were getting in to.

I do have to hand it to Jeff...he is very determined to get this right one way or another. Kind of a lost art among the business folk these days. Too many want to use other peoples money to make a quick buck for themselves.

Just a little longer,,,Just a little longer,,,Just a little longer,,,Just a little longer,,,Just a little longer,,,Just a little longer,,,Just a little longer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Just a little longer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Just a little longer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Anybody getten the idea yet.

Yeah,

but what did you get when you got married? Remember her copping to that "to love, cherish, honor and obey", and that scary "'til death do us part...".

I may have a misplaced sense of loyalty, but I spoke to these guys before I ordered. Jeff struck me as an honorable man then, and nothing has occurred to change my mind about him or the company. I signed up for the long haul, however long it takes is how long it takes. I got two double rifles now and I get to go back to Africa April 8th. If Jeff doesn't have my actions sitting at AHR when I get back I'll be okay.

Rich

You make it clear I,,,S,,, I'll bet your wife can't wait till death do you part

Actually, no. She hopes I live to be a hundred, since my fat pension goes away the same month I do!

She asked me what I wanted for our 20th Wedding Anniversary as a present, and I told her Boddington's book "The Spiral Horned Antelope". A bit pricey at $450, but she said to order it. I just can't have it until June 22nd! You have to imagine a good looking woman that has put up with me for nearly twenty years!

The greatest joy in my life...

Rich

heres a funny thing .. one of the major haters of the 375 ruger (cuz its new and its not the HH) is a major supporter of the NEW, not a mauser PH actions ..

that's just funny to me .. hate one because its new and love the other bc it can house a huge wildcat ...

that's just plain old funny

Jeffe- we don't hate one(375 Ruger) over the H&H
as on other thread I just explained why the Ruger in a
shorty barrel can't match H&H in a long barrel,
at same pressures. I personally DO NOT like either, as I
feel neither are not big enough. The only good
use I ever partly liked with H&H case is straightened out
to make 475 OKH, which Art changed the name on to
470 Capstick.

As for liking the mauser based PH it is liked by me
to the extent that it is big enough . But it sure is 3/4
a large mauser with mauser wall, left lug back from
bolt face, control feed, non rotating extractor,etc
Only major differences being safety,
and bolt handle base being a safety lug.

For perfection it should be a scaled up Enfield.
But because it is big I got 5, and will work around
the old timey nostalgic mauser stuff.Ed

Jeffe,

never said I disliked the new Ruger cartridges, just that I saw no need for any of them. If the Ruger CEO was under oath, and would be caught in a lie and be drawn and quartered; it would be difficult for him to justify introducing any of them. Instead, they buy a few noted gunwriters a free trip to Africa and free tags and hope the hype will sell a million.

You guys all use the one "shorter is better" example of the 300 Win Mag displacing the 300 H&H. Winchester did that by raising the price of the H&H to nearly double the 300WM. They did not WANT to build the H&H. They also replaced the 220 Swift with a "totally new and better" 225 Winchester in 1964. How's that cartridge doing?

Here's the simple solution, if you want the Ruger instead of the Holland, buy one! But, there isn't nearly a big enough market to allow you to count on more than five or six guys a year trading in the H&H for the Ruger. Besides, nobody has posted here in recent memory about his H&H having pressure signs trying to match factory velocities, or not feeding properly, or having trouble finding ammunition or brass, like we read here about every day or two with the Rugers.

This Emperor has no clothes...!

Rich

Rich:

PM sent.

quote:

This Emperor has no clothes...!

Rich,

You better be careful if you criticize the 375 Ruger too much you may end up on jeffs "ignore" list.

Jeffe thrives on this sort of thing. Besides, he had me stay at his house awhile back and his lovely Wife and his Mother think I have manners.
We enjoy debating the comparative merits of different cartridges, in person or here.

I will admit to being biased in favor or raw horsepower most times, and Jeffe has thing about efficiency.

It's all good...

Rich

Sorry guys was gone the last couple days on meetings. No new news this week, except that we have not given up on the 375 H and H version. We are looking at a different mag box that may work.

This thread - and I have no dog in the fight - confuses me.

Are you gents talking here about a bolt gun action (sorta like Paul Mauser came up with over 110 years ago), or a perpetual motion machine, or maybe faster than light travel?

Inquiring minds want to know.

M93,

yesssssssssssssss!

Rich

It was the genius of John Moses Browning too design guns that function perfectly and were easy to build. While the famous german guns, Luger, Mauser,etc, are a pain too build. No one should have to tell this to a guy who calls himself Mauser93: Building a 98 action is not the trick (not today)- But; reasonable cost, small shop production, of a 98 Mauser style action is rocket science.

Rich -- that's the good thing about being friends .. we can disagree and decide "well, he aint a bad guy, just doesn't think "RIGHT""

quote:

Originally posted by mauser93:
This thread - and I have no dog in the fight - confuses me.

Are you gents talking here about a bolt gun action (sorta like Paul Mauser came up with over 110 years ago), or a perpetual motion machine, or maybe faster than light travel?

Inquiring minds want to know.

m93 - no .. its a supersized model 70, taking some styling "hints" from custom and/or high level mausers. if you call a model 70 a mauser (not mauser type... that's far to nebulous of a word) then yes ..

No offense, jeff @mrc, this is certainly NOT a perpetual MOTION device .. LOL

Jeffe,

never been wrong, just misinformed once or twice.

Rich

No update for last week?

Anyone hear anything new?
Ed?
Rich?
Thanks,
Paul

Mine is ready,got the e-mail today

Big Stick, no update was done last week, I was short staffed on Friday and did bluing all day and I mean 12 hours of it.....hate that job. Then Saturday was my son's 3rd birthday so didn't really have a chance to get on here. I got a few pins in that some were good some not but I think it's going well. Should be about 4-6 weeks for full delivery of them, if everything goes well at their shop. Sent two PH's out last week and got one finished up this week on the pins that were good. The one this week is going to be a barreled action so obviously excited to get it finished up.

Anyone know of a Master Machinist that is looking for work that has engineering experience too? Tell them to send me a Resume please!!
Jeff

HAPPY ST. PATRICK'S DAY to all of you!

Latest updates? Would it be possible to provide a list of who is where on that list? Would make the situation that much better because I don't know if I an the 30th guy or the 200th guy. It makes a big difference to me.

Up

I called and talked to Lindsey last Wednesday to find out about my order. She asked me for the specs to mine and I told her Gibbs boltface and chromoly steel. Her response was a few more months and mentioned the firing pin issue. My next question was where was my order as far as shipping sequence, her response was that it was up to Jeff and that since they recieved payment from my FFL dealer then it was him that needed to be asking questions. I made this order with Jon Frost about seven+ years ago and then had my local dealer send his FFL. Two years ago they (MRC) called and collected payment from my dealer without notification to me, I promptly paid him and have a reciept from him for the payment. I'm going in to see my dealer Monday AM and have him call them (MRC) and ask for the refund that Jeff offered here on the forum. What disappoints me was the lack of customer follow-up. And answer my questions, don't make me go through my FFL dealer.
How is that for an update. I will post here how this works out.
Rodney.

Yes- Time for a update-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:
When you buy Tylenol you exchange money for a product. The retailer needs to give you the Tylenol to live up to their end of the deal.

When you buy Johnson and Johnson stock you are purchasing a small piece of the company with the hopes of making money if the overall value goes up. The company tries to maximize profits to live up to their end of the deal but there are no guarantees.

Your points on this thread would be valid if people had in fact invested in MRC with the understanding that all might be lost if things didn't work out. MRC did not call and say "we have a semi finished prototype and we need more money to get the casting off the ground in hopes of making this action work". What they did say was "We will ship in a few months and we need final payment on your order". I'm sure you will agree those are two very different things. I'm sure MRC took their wording into consideration when they made those calls because they needed to raise the most capital possible.

Like everything in life it is about expectations. MRC said the actions were shipping and they weren't even close to being ready. MRC did not live up to what was presented. If MRC was completly candid with people in Spring of 2008 their expectations would have been different as they would have been better informed as to what they were getting in to.

BINGO! There is a big difference between raising capital to fund a startup or expansion, and generating revenue through sales. You are either an investor, or a customer.

The problem here, (as well as in numerous other examples I've read on this forum) is that the line was blurred. Capital was raised through pre-payment of future sales.

Investors accept risk, customers generally don't. It's all about communication...

Maybe we should rename this the stockmarket and marital advice thread.

Karl.

Guys, please don't get on here and respond to what Lindsay says, EVERYTIME I ask her, "Did you say this? she says No, that is not what I said....so am I supposed to get on here and say that's not what she said, listen, she answers the phone and helps with orders. She is the Office Manager, that's it, she does not manage the shop, she does not manage the production, she manages the office and takes orders. That's it guys. I will be bringing a new Salesman on soon and you can tear him up all you want, hell you've torn me up enough.

Rodney, if you ordered a PH through Jon Frost, and subsequently had your FFL dealer place the order how were we supposed to know that if it is not on the order? Jon Frost has NEVER worked for me. Jon left before I bought the company. If there were no notes to that on the order and your FFL holder made the order then sorry, but the order is your FFL holders not yours. You may have ordered through them but understand if the FFL holder calls in an order and then pays for it it's theirs to make adjustments not their customers. This is not meant to cause a fight just understand that is how the process works in any business.

Again, if you guys want your money back that's fine.

As to this;
"When you buy Tylenol you exchange money for a product. The retailer needs to give you the Tylenol to live up to their end of the deal.

When you buy Johnson and Johnson stock you are purchasing a small piece of the company with the hopes of making money if the overall value goes up. The company tries to maximize profits to live up to their end of the deal but there are no guarantees.

Your points on this thread would be valid if people had in fact invested in MRC with the understanding that all might be lost if things didn't work out. MRC did not call and say "we have a semi finished prototype and we need more money to get the casting off the ground in hopes of making this action work". What they did say was "We will ship in a few months and we need final payment on your order". I'm sure you will agree those are two very different things. I'm sure MRC took their wording into consideration when they made those calls because they needed to raise the most capital possible.

Like everything in life it is about expectations. MRC said the actions were shipping and they weren't even close to being ready. MRC did not live up to what was presented. If MRC was completly candid with people in Spring of 2008 their expectations would have been different as they would have been better informed as to what they were getting in to."

Well here you are wrong, we told people from the beginning that the money was being used to get all the parts and finish the molds and we gave people the time frames for shipping based on the time frames we were given from our vendors. So I have learned this..1. I have since learned to multiply vendors time frames by 5. 2. I have since learned that also means you take what they send you even if it's not to print or wait another scheduled time frame...oh and your price will go up. and 3. While you are doing all of this you are a ponzi scheme and everyone will call you every name in the book....so tell me again why you guys want me to come on here and give updates? Just to be harrassed?

PS.
Time frames that I have right now. Firing pins will be here in 4-6 weeks. After that they go to heat treat, another 2 weeks. After that the PH CM Gibbs bolt face actions will ship at whatever rate we can get them together. Could be around 5-7 a day. I will have Lindsay put together a list of names on who is getting theirs first and who is getting theirs last, so when you call in you can make your own judgement on when yours will be shipping. After this the Rigbys will go out and after that the Standard magnums. Then the SS Gibbs bolt face actions will go and then SS Rigbys and finally the SS Standard mags. After that the deal I am giving to the customers who waited on the list stands firm, you can purchase as many actions as you kept on order after you recieve the ones you have on order at the same price you paid for these. No more no less.
Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by MTJ:

PS.
Time frames that I have right now. Firing pins will be here in 4-6 weeks. After that they go to heat treat, another 2 weeks. After that the PH CM Gibbs bolt face actions will ship at whatever rate we can get them together. Could be around 5-7 a day. I will have Lindsay put together a list of names on who is getting theirs first and who is getting theirs last, so when you call in you can make your own judgement on when yours will be shipping. After this the Rigbys will go out and after that the Standard magnums. Then the SS Gibbs bolt face actions will go and then SS Rigbys and finally the SS Standard mags. After that the deal I am giving to the customers who waited on the list stands firm, you can purchase as many actions as you kept on order after you recieve the ones you have on order at the same price you paid for these. No more no less.
Jeff

I'm in line for a stainless Rigby. According to th timeline and the "business math" above it'll be in my hands in...

(4-6 weeks +2 weeks)*(5 for adjustment)*(5 because it's the fifth model in line) = 150-200 weeks.

Sweet.

"Rodney, if you ordered a PH through Jon Frost, and subsequently had your FFL dealer place the order how were we supposed to know that if it is not on the order?"

I ordered the "PH" through Jon Frost not my FFL dealer and at the time he did work for Montanarifleman. I simply don't know how to respond to the second part of the question.

"If there were no notes to that on the order and your FFL holder made the order then sorry, but the order is your FFL holders not yours."

My name was to be side-marked with the FFL's for shipping purposes. The order is/was mine as I will demonstrate when I see the dealer.

"You may have ordered through them but understand if the FFL holder calls in an order and then pays for it it's theirs to make adjustments not their customers."

I did not make the order through my local FFL as I placed the order and made the specs directly through Jon. The FFL holder did not make the call, I did. Someone from MRC called my FFL holder for the payment and why did'nt you/MRC contact me? My FFL dealer simply paid it because he trusted me on this being something I wanted. Point is you recieved payment for this and I am the customer.
Again I did not order this through "them" or anyone else but the the sales rep for the company you have now, money has been collected and you cannot acknowledge me as the customer. I am pissed to say the least and someone from Sportsmans Guns & Ammo in Conroe Texas will be contacting you/MRC for a refund unless you can convince me that you can deliver a "PH" to me very quickly. BULL$#!+ !
Rodney.

quote:

(from MTJ) "so tell me again why you guys want me to come on here and give updates? Just to be harrassed?"

I don't have a horse in this race, almost bought in early as the price was very attractive but decided the action was larger than I would ever need.
The customers that did prepurchase actions dealt with Montana, not the vendors that caused the problems. So no matter who is at fault- "The buck stops here", right at your desk. Good communication, IMHO, is extremely important even if it feels like they are taking a bite out of your backside. Most stories of gunsmith disasters seem to escalate out of hand when communication stops. I can only imagine how tough of an undertaking it has been to bring these actions to market, especially in the current economic conditions and wish you all the best keeping your customers in the loop, keeping your vendors on track and getting the actions delivered.

I'm calling BS on all this nonsense. Jeff comes on here and claims he will give refunds and can't. I sent a letter in Dec, then called and nothing. I then got a hold of Jeff and had him send me whatever action he had on hand because something is better then nothing.

Search this site and you can find 7 years of lies from every Tom, Dick and Harry who has owned, worked at, bought, sold, lived near, put the plumbing in, or did landscaping for MRC company or whatever variation of the name they are using now.

Jeff you are getting tough questions because this SCREAMS bankruptcy and people want you come here and explain why MRC ins't on the verge of complete and total failure. The problem is you can't calm those fears and people see the writing on the wall.

I wish you knew years ago that the answer to this was pulling the plug on the PH and giving refunds. I'm also sure you don't have the money to do that. Everything since has been a dance to distract people while you hope for a miracle to come along.

Back on Feb 1st the fire pin excuse was getting old and again something that was going to take 4-6 weeks takes months and months and months.

Now please go back and please read what you posted 3 years ago and explain to people how you lived up to any of these claims, if anything the company has gotten worse.

We aren't attacking you, we are holding you to your word.

" Posted 22 May 2007 18:28
There have been so many rumors and comments about Montana Rifle Company (MRC) lately and while most have been good there have been some negative as well. We believe most negative comments to either be from a misunderstanding or misinformation about our products.

First of all let me start by saying we are no longer the same company. The overall product line has not changed but just about everything else has. We have new owners; who have a completely new philosophy about the product we are producing along with how we will deal with our customers. The previous thought process was “ We are not building a $2000 action, if you want anything different do it yourselfâ€. While we still believe we are building the starting point for a custom rifle, we also understand the changing dynamics of the custom rifle industry. While there are still a handful of gunsmiths who prefer to build a custom rifle from scratch, there is a large majority who want the action in more of a finished state before they get it. Because each person has a comfort level that they are willing to start with, we have decided to do two things;
1. All actions will have the raceways smoothed and the receiver/bolt squared and lapped. The trigger pull will be set to between 3-4 lbs. The actions will be semi-blueprinted.
2 We are going to offer the actions in different levels of finish (obviously with different pricing structures). The more you want your action “finishedâ€, the higher the price will be. However we will still keep the overall costs below all others actions that are in the same category, as far as features. These pricing increases will begin 6/1/07

One of the biggest complaints we have had is the lengthy time frames to get any of our long and short actions. Let me give you all the assurance that within the next 30-60 days we will have inventory of every variation of action we currently make. Right and left handed, stainless and CM, long and short, standard and magnum. We have made it our mission to provide you with inventory, but also to make that inventory the highest quality we can provide.

Another thing we want to do is help those who feel they had a bad experience with us. For those of you that fall into this category, please give us a call and we will try to work that out on a one on one basis.

The PH and the Mini,…..wow…where do I begin? Well first let me start by saying we are going to complete these projects sooner than later. We will be starting with the PH and hope to have it going by SHOT Show 2008. I know….you’ve heard that before, right? Well you’ll either have to just trust me or wait and see. The mini is one we hope to start by mid 2008. We will not be doing these the same way we did the short and long actions, by using customers money to produce them. This time we will be doing it with our own money and will charge the customers on shipment. While we pursued every option available to keep the price of the PH at the introductory offering of $525.00, with the rising costs of steel and machining costs of parts there is no chance that we will be able to fulfill that. The pricing of the introductory offer will be around $625.00-$650.00 This pricing will only be for the customers that have pre-ordered the PH’s and have an order in before 6/1/07. All orders after 6/1/07 will be at regular pricing, around $750-850.

There will be other updates as we grow and we want to thank you for your patronage and especially your continued patience.

Jeff & Devin

Ok, in 8 weeks some customers will begin taking delivery of their PH actions at a rate of 25-35/week. I think, after all of this I can throw another 2 months into the ring. However, if this don't take place I would have to agree with all of the people that think MRC should throw in the towel and facilitate the full and complete refund process, even if it comes at extreme financial hardship. At some point, a man has to stand behind and back up his word...regardless the personal set back he may endure. Jeff, 8 weeks it is. We all shall see.

Where are we at: complete actions, minus a stinking firing pin are sitting in boxes at MRC.
The original owner(s) bailed out on us. Jeff is the owner now, and he has persevered. I doubt the guys in front of him left all that $$$$ sitting in an escrow account to him. He has to raise the capitol to complete the project. He learns some hard lessons along the way.
1. vendors, some of them, cannot be trusted to meet delivery or price guarantees.
2. vendors, some of them, will take the $$ up front and then fail and have to declare bankruptcy. Your tooling is gone and so is your money.

Repeat...

You guys think Jeff isn't ten times as anxious to deliver these PH actions as you are to get them? His entire business future is tied up in this. There is no future at MRC if he can't come through for all of us shortly. This project has consumed his life the past three-plus years.

Yes, I am frustrated. Yes, I wish I had gotten mine on the original delivery schedule. But NO!, I am not ready to throw Jeff under the bus.

Rich

Rodney, I don't know what the situation with why your order is the way it is. I am telling you that if you placed the order with someone here..6-7 years ago, maybe that person didn't write the order up how we would do it now. And maybe we only had your FFL information or there was no number to contact you..I dont' know. But when we started calling people to confirm the orders we went off the info on the order sheet. That is why it is in your FFL's name. If they call up and say to change it to your name and they are only the FFL, I have no problem doing that. If Lindsay gives you any grief over that let me know and I will take care of it.

86thecat, I understand the buck stops here, it's why I am on here, I just had a tough week and came on to post and find that just like always I am getting slammed again, well it just makes it hard.

GeoffM24, Are we are the verge of failure...no, the company is still kicking, the PH project however has put us in the hole pretty bad. Short and long actions are continuing to be put through as well as our Custom Rifles. Has the PH project cost more than we thought...yes, not just financially but time wise, and stress wise. I had a meeting the other day with a Production engineer from one of the largest firearms manufactuers in the world, I told him my entire scenerio and he just laughed. I asked him what he was laughing about and he said "Jeff when we come out with a new project it is a minimum 1 1/2 year ordeal. And we have unlimited resources. What made you think you could do it in less than a year or even two years for that matter?" To that I said " Well we didn't and it's my fault for giving people unrealistic expectations". And that's where it all lies. I gave way unrealistic expectations based on the time frames and financial expectaions I was given at the time, but I am not going to stop the project, I am not a quitter and no matter what I have to do I will get these orders out. And I know what I wrote, but we have also had many changes since then too. Have you ever tried something to learn later on that it was not as easy as you thought it was? Guys I dont' show anyone waiting for a refund? If you requested one, please call me on Monday and I will make sure it is processed. Other than that I gotta get back to the shop. The reason I hired Lindsay in the first place was so I didn't have to be tied to the phone and could actually be in the Shop working.

Also...just for all of you, we live in one of the most beautiful places on earth, just 30 miles from Glacier National Park...IF you are planning a vacation this summer, why don't you come to Kalispell and take a tour of our facilities so you can see what we are trying to accomplish.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Where are we at: complete actions, minus a stinking firing pin are sitting in boxes at MRC.
The original owner(s) bailed out on us. Jeff is the owner now, and he has persevered. I doubt the guys in front of him left all that $$$$ sitting in an escrow account to him. He has to raise the capitol to complete the project. He learns some hard lessons along the way.
1. vendors, some of them, cannot be trusted to meet delivery or price guarantees.
2. vendors, some of them, will take the $$ up front and then fail and have to declare bankruptcy. Your tooling is gone and so is your money.

Repeat...

You guys think Jeff isn't ten times as anxious to deliver these PH actions as you are to get them? His entire business future is tied up in this. There is no future at MRC if he can't come through for all of us shortly. This project has consumed his life the past three-plus years.

Yes, I am frustrated. Yes, I wish I had gotten mine on the original delivery schedule. But NO!, I am not ready to throw Jeff under the bus.

Rich

+1

The deal as I remember was we had to get 400 orders, money would be collected and production would begin. The membership here was pushing hard for the actions. It took years for us to get the orders, as far as I know this was driven mostly by the AR membership. We all wanted a $600 big double bridge action, (Granite Mountain's were $1500 to $2000. CZ 550 and Brno's were a $1000 and need lots of smithing). I put my money down a little over 2 years ago.I was one of the first, My action is done and will be barreled next week. From what I been told I will have it for the hoot and shoot for all to see, If Jeff gets it done early next week and I get it bedded in time it will be shoot able.

I know of several smiths that have a 2+ year wait with a much larger deposit than 600 bucks.



Stop acting like nagging little girls, there is no faster way to kill this deal. When this first was talked about 600 bucks went a lot further, even with the years it took to get the orders together they honored the price and are working to bring this to completion. From what he told us he had his feet kicked out from under him with a vendor taking his money and tooling. That required more capital on a very thin deal to begin with. I suspect he is past making his money back on this. We talked them into it this we need to hang in there with them.
Jeff is trying to do the right thing by us, we should not be making this more trouble than its worth.


JD

I liked them and Jeff so well I went from
original one, to picking up 4 more.
Many unlimited resources companies have
taken 2-5 years to get stuff going.
A little of my resources and a little
from each of us, per action, helped a
guy with a real big action, something we
really need, and it is patience that
will see us all through.Ed