Just talked to Buffalo Arms about their 30/06 cylinder brass. Nice guy named Sheldon gave me the whole scoop.
It is headstamped Rem 35 Whelen (Rem manufacture)they recieve it as 35 Whelen and bump it out to Cylinder.
Measures 2.645" length.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Just talked to Buffalo Arms about their 30/06 cylinder brass. Nice guy named Sheldon gave me the whole scoop.
It is headstamped Rem 35 Whelen (Rem manufacture)they recieve it as 35 Whelen and bump it out to Cylinder.
Measures 2.645" length.

Kind of strange.

When I "bump" the 35 Whelen brass out to 400 Whelen it shortens from about 2.49" to about 2.43".

Is this some sort of "left long" 35 Whelen brass from Remington? It gets "bumped out" by Buffalo Arms?

Remington does not make the basic cylindrical brass. They get it from an unknown supplier, possible from overseas,
thus spake a former Remington R&D Engineer (now Gunsmith) who asked Remington if he could get some cylindrical basic 35 Whelen brass from them, recently.
Remington did not have any.

Waiting for Quality Cartridge I am.

RIP
While I had the guy on the phone he got a piece of brass and measured it for me. Not sure what to think?
When is Quality supposed to have there's in stock?
We have to buy Quality from Midway or grafs right can't buy direct?
By the way dropped my 400 project off at my Gunsmiths shop Monday. Made arrangements for the reamer too.
Looking for a Lyman Banded front sight or equal that is about .705" or .715" I.D. any help on that would be appreciated. I have a couple new in the box that are smaller diameter to trade.

OAL is not all that critical in a 400 W. It's the chamber and shoulder that count. Before Qual-Cartridge came along, I used Norma 9.3x62 brass for years. It worked just fine. Always better a bit too short than a bit too long. It was especially good with the old X 400 gr bullet that is just slightly shorter than an Atlas rocket.
But it worked with 390 gr cast, 325/350 Xs, 400 Swift and 400 Woodleighs. It's not really a finicky cartridge to load for.

1.3mm shorter don't mean diddley ! 25.4mm in an inch. 0.0254mm in one thousandth of an inch so 1.3/0.0254 = 51.1811 thousandths of an inch.

The Elk/Moose/Bear will never know the difference.

Snellstrom,
You can buy QC brass directly from Peter Cardona, Proprietor, last I checked.
QC 400 Whelen brass might be ready by the end of this month ... just like it might have been ready by the end of last month.
Just make sure your reamer, dies and brass are compatible, and the 400 Whelen Petrov 2003 is slick.
But that does not mean that the 400 Whelen Berry 2013 is an exercise in futility.

artshaw,
Ya, don't want no stinking brass that is too long, that would be dangerous.
But we do want our brass no shorter than trim-to length, and no longer than +0.010" beyond that.
It is just a meets-specification, perfectionist thing.

RIP, I agree about the too long, but the Norma 9.3x62 brass is better than Qual cartridge stuff, better than necked up 06/338-06/35 Whelen. In fact the only thing better is Norma basics in 30-06 which are but a fond memory.
In this case the "meeting specs perfectionist thing" is just anal, like cleaning primer pockets. This isn't 1000 yard benchrest, this is having a rifle that works all the time everytime.
Mine does and is on the cover of the book Petrov wrote a whole chapter about the 400 W. It also kills things very dead and will hold 1.5 MOA out to 300 with any load using a totally inadequate (LOL) Leupold Alaskan 2.5X.
You might recall "back in the day" Ken waters was successfully making 9.3x62s from 30-06s .... a lot more dimensional issues there than a neck 40 thou under your trim spec !
Good luck with Qual, I won't upset you by telling you how long it took to get 244 H&H brass from them.

quote:

It is headstamped Rem 35 Whelen (Rem manufacture)they recieve it as 35 Whelen and bump it out to Cylinder.
Measures 2.645" length.

Same stuff z-hat was selling.

Sure wish you guys would slow down your posts I laying here in the hospital and can't keep up. What was the price on the Whelen headstamp stuff?

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
RIP, I agree about the too long, but the Norma 9.3x62 brass is better than Qual cartridge stuff, better than necked up 06/338-06/35 Whelen. In fact the only thing better is Norma basics in 30-06 which are but a fond memory.
In this case the "meeting specs perfectionist thing" is just anal, like cleaning primer pockets. This isn't 1000 yard benchrest, this is having a rifle that works all the time everytime.
Mine does and is on the cover of the book Petrov wrote a whole chapter about the 400 W. It also kills things very dead and will hold 1.5 MOA out to 300 with any load using a totally inadequate (LOL) Leupold Alaskan 2.5X.
You might recall "back in the day" Ken waters was successfully making 9.3x62s from 30-06s .... a lot more dimensional issues there than a neck 40 thou under your trim spec !
Good luck with Qual, I won't upset you by telling you how long it took to get 244 H&H brass from them.

Hey! 4570sh#tter said that was his rifle on the cover of that book.

So 4570sh#tter has got a new handle eh?
Larry Root is artshaw?
Why the need to switch handles so often?
Jorge?

Artshaw/4570sh#tter/Larry Root says:

'In this case the "meeting specs perfectionist thing" is just anal ...'

I say not so, and this:
You will scour your chamber neck and eventually erode a donut into the chamber neck near the mouth if you shoot too short brass.
That could make for sticky extraction if you ever used proper length brass.

If you are going to use the 9.3x62 brass routinely, you need to get a shorter chamber.
Call that wildcat whatever you like.

Get well soon Paul.

500+ rounds w/9.3x62 brass before Qual started making their 400 W. (which, as with most Qual cases, need to be FL sized and trimmed before the first use)

Conditioned Quals extract and eject just fine.

Scoured chamber .... you have seen how many ? Recognized gunsmithing books noting this "fact"?
Maybe (?) with cordite in soft steel but not today.

All those guys who shoot 45-70 in 46-90s, 458s in Lotts, 38 specials in 357 magnums, 22 shorts in 22 LRs ....... an epidemic of "scoured chambers" !!! Fouled perhaps, but a soak of bore solvent will take care of that.

BTW, the chamber cast of my R.F. Sedgley 400 W is just like Mike's G&H chamber. It dates from the mid 30s, so I guess most of the errors in just necking up 06s' came later.

In a new gun, where nostalgia is not an issue, a 411 Hawk makes more sense and gives a bit more "stootch" as well. There was a story a few years back on Hawks in Rifle/Handloader with an especially interesting No. 1 in 411 used to shoot small varmints with iron sights.

Fred does know a bit about wildcats......

Yep,
Now confirmed.
4570sh#tter has re-incarnated again as artshaw, as of 27 January 2013, and already has 54 posts under latest nom de plume.
Some people change their handles about as often as they change their underwear.

I do have the .411 Hawk max brass specs, it was designed for use of short brass length:

It has a 2.4300" max brass length.
Neck-1 and neck-2 are both 0.4392" diameter.
Neck-1 distance from base is 2.0538"
Shoulder diameter is 0.4540".
Shoulder distance from base is 2.0300"
Shoulder angle is: 17deg. 15'
Rim thickness is 0.0490", rim diameter 0.4730".
Top of extractor groove is 0.1247" from base, and the diameter there is 0.4710".

Reamer specs and throating are a proprietary secret?

I am still waiting for some good brass from Quality Cartridge.
I am pretty sure the .411 Hawk is too sloppy in the neck and too short overall for what I desire.

Had to draw the .411 Hawk for posterity. Nothing special about this, .411 Hawk max brass specs:



The 400 Whelen Petrov 2003 is superior in both mechanical function and ballistics,
unless there is some special voodoo in the chamber and throat of the .411 Hawk.

400 Whelen Petrov 2003 Max Brass specs:



If the .411 Hawk can do these claimed loads in a 25" barrel, then the 400 Whelen Petrov 2003 can do better:

.411 Hawk 25" barrel:

300 gr bullet ... H4895 64.0 gr ..... 2553 fps
325 gr bullet ... H4895 64.0 gr ..... 2479 fps
350 gr bullet ... IMR4064 61.0 gr ... 2366 fps
360 gr bullet ... AA2230 57.0 gr .... 2281 fps
400 gr bullet ... RL-15 57.0 gr ..... 2159 fps

I have seen a chamber that had been "scoured" by too-short brass. The guy religiously trimmed his 22-250 brass to .020 under min. This went on for less than 1K rounds. Then, when it was fired with full length factory ammo, it had to be driven out with a rod. Cleaning did not help. Running a chambering reamer in by hand did not cut anything in the neck. The solution taken was to send the gun back to the factory for a new barrel.

I don't have a clue as to how many rounds it would take to ruin a 400 Whelen chamber, but why take the risk?

I was working up some loads yesterday.
RL-10X powder
WLR primer
35 Whelen case RP reformed
Speer .416 350 gr. bullet sized to .412

61 gr. was as high as I went.
2332 av. vel. (10 shots)
64 extreme spread
20 SD

This is the preliminary loading for a 350 gr bullet. I deprimed a case and seated a new primer and the pocket was still tight. I could not measure any expansion of the case head. Will now move to the 350 Swift, if I ever get my dies back from CH.

Rusty,
That is some good information!
However, you need to quit shooting that 2.43" brass in your 400 Whelen Petrov 2003 chamber that ought to have 2.490" max brass ...
... before you find out how many rounds it takes to erode the end of the chamber neck.

BTW, just 7 more posts and roughone (Rusty McGee, Gunsmith/Mechanical Engineer) will become "one of us," after just going on 2 years of "new member" status here.

How many times has artshaw/4570sh#tter become "one of us" in about a week?

artshaw: How about listing all the handles you have used at ar.com?

Don't have a picture on this pc but hawk is shortet than the whelen. Bacic same net capacity. Zhat did build a 411 express which is the hawk left long enough to use the 2.65" b rass.

Not much gain unless you have a longer mag box

I shot some more ammo yesterday. The 350 Speer (.412") load came in at basically the same stats,
2336 ave. vel.
ES 42
SD 16

I also shot the same load of 61 gr. of RL-10x(new) with the 350 gr Swift A Frame. It is listed as .410" dia., but mikes .4095".
2297 ave. vel.
ES 53
SD 17
The POI and group size were the same with both loads. Could up the powder charge and get the same vel.

Ron kindly loaned me his dies. As soon as I tried to size some fire-formed AHR brass, I stuck another case in the die. It turns out that the AHR brass is thick enough, just above the web, that the expander ball doesn't have enough room. The decapping pin won't go far enough into the case to deprime. This will add a step of depriming seperately. Also, I loaded one AHR case today with the same load as above. The case extraction was difficult. I am starting to wonder if this brass is worth the trouble for the 400 Whelen. It was designed for the Howell cartridges, where I am sure it shines.

Rusty,
Thanks for some more good info, load data (23.6" barrel just like mine) and the
explanation for why the AHR brass has produced 2 stuck cases for me,
and now your third stuck case?
I guess it is OK for everything up to .375 Howell,
but I wonder how it is made to work for the 400 PDK?
Paul knows ...

Rusty,

I just got some Swift A Frames and noticed the same thing. Mine all miked .4095 as well. I am working on 350 grain bullet tests with IMR 3031. Keith listed his favorite load as 63 grains of 3031 with the WTC 350 bullet. I am trying the 350 grain Hawk, Swift, and resized Speers along with the North Fork 360 with 3031 working up (carefully) towards Keith's load. I am waiting on the Hawks yet and some more Norma basic brass that I won in an auction. As soon as they get here I am ready for some range time.

Mart

Nice to know we have "experts" here that know more than Fred, Wayne and Mike.

Wonder how many kills the "experts" have made w/the 400 W ?

Stuck cases ? Wildcatting 101 would inform you to make a chamber cast BEFORE loading any ammo. That would tell you the chamber's size, hence the maximum safe case's OAL. Brownells sells cerrosafe and any decent gunsmithing book will tell you how to properly make a chamber cast.

As far a Hawks go, this might impart some documented facts.....

Of course none of our "experts" have a pressure transducer......

http://www.z-hat.com/411%20Hawk.htm

Sorry but this thread has become a waste of time. When we reach the point of comparing a barrel burner like the 22-250 to a 400 Whelen, we're off the chart. I would hazard a guess that the 22-250 had a fried throat long before the "scoured" chamber.

Still waiting for any link to a recognized expert gunsmith noting the danger of "scouring" on large bore, low velocity, low pressure cartridges.

Something that the ‘true gunsmith experts’ will tell you is that a chamber casting will give close dimensions for the chamber but not the absolute true dimensions of the chamber.

This casting issue can, and very often does, lead to a finish chamber reamer being spec’d at smaller dimensions than the chamber the casting was taken from…and this becomes a greater issue when either CIP or SAAMI specifications have been issued for the parent cartridge at a date following the development of the derivative cartridge w/o adjusting the derivative dimensions to match the updated published data should the derivative data be undersize.

An additional issue often relates to the brass used for the derivative cartridge; i.e., the CIP or SAAMI PMap the brass was annealed to in the manufacturing process to accommodate …
30-06 Springfield @ 60000 psi (CIP @ 58740)
.35 Whelen @ 58015 psi
Or
.270 Winchester @ 65000 psi
.338-06 A-Square @ 65000 psi

Antidotally, ‘michael458’ went through this manufacturing/annealing/PMap issue with a 1000 piece run of Huelsen-Horneber Brass for his 500 MDM cartridge which is a RUM derivative. Huelsen-Horneber offers 300 RUM brass which should be manufactured and annealed to safely accommodate the cartridges SAAMI PMap of 65000 psi. Michael’s special order which included the special headstamp and leaving the 300 RUM bass in cylindrical form was finally delivered many months late. Then load development with the new H-H brass revealed the brass was not properly annealed to withstand the SAAMI PMap of 65000 psi for the parent 300 RUM cartridge; the case extracted fine at a maximum 60000 psi but became progressively sticky within the chamber as the pressure approached 62000 psi where it became very difficult to extract – and yes these pressure levels were taken with pressure measuring equipment.

So why the antidotal information? Very simple. RIP, roughone, and others are running their 400 Whelens at the 60K psi mark to likely 62K-63K psi. If the Hawk basic brass if annealed in the manufacturing process to only accommodate the .35 Whelen SAAMI PMap then their operating psi levels while very safe for their rifles are very overpressure for the brass being used. And this would be exacerbated if – the Hawk brass is manufactured towards the maximum case (rim and case body head) dimensions of the SAAMI specifications for the 30-06 Springfield and .35 Whelen – and their .400 Whelen chamber was cut with a finish chamber reamer with dimensions slightly smaller these SAAMI specifications due to utilizing a chamber casting…

Jim,

You have gone off on a wrong tangent there, mislead by 4570sh#tter/artshaw/Larry Root/POSeur. Excellent in what you say, but there are no chamber and brass problems in this case, caused by dimensional issues.
Fartie Shaw just does not pay attention.


The problem is with the expander ball getting stuck in the bottom of the case and causing a stuck case in the FL sizing die.

The AHR brass is properly sized externally for the rifle chamber.
If anything it is on the small side externally but too thick walled at the base, thus too small internally in the sidewall area of the base,
and besides, has a poorly finished primer pocket (sharp edge, no bevel or radius to the entrance primer hole on the head face of the case).
That latter feature just impedes easy priming of the cases without some breaking of the knife-edge hole first, radiusing or beveling.

The stickiness problem with the AHR brass would be like the Horneber, aye, too soft in the lower case area. You got that right.

Now, Fartie Shaw needs to get his head out of his pompous ass.
We could tolerate a pompous ass more easily if the head were removed from the crack and if the ass did not change it's name so often.

There is absolutely no need for any chamber casting of the 400 Whelen Petrov 2003 rifles that were chambered with Rusty's reamer and gages.
We know exactly what they are like and how long to make the brass for them.

Fartie Shaw's reading comprehension is none too good when he has his head where the sun don't shine.

Fartie Shaw might change himself from pompous ass to regular jackass, with a little effort.
I am sure he will be able to come up with another member name, a new handle for the new persona.
May I suggest "artshaw" be changed to simply "jackass?"

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
Nice to know we have "experts" here that know more than Fred, Wayne and Mike.

Wonder how many kills the "experts" have made w/the 400 W ?

Stuck cases ? Wildcatting 101 would inform you to make a chamber cast BEFORE loading any ammo. That would tell you the chamber's size, hence the maximum safe case's OAL. Brownells sells cerrosafe and any decent gunsmithing book will tell you how to properly make a chamber cast.

As far a Hawks go, this might impart some documented facts.....

Of course none of our "experts" have a pressure transducer......

http://www.z-hat.com/411%20Hawk.htm

Sorry but this thread has become a waste of time. When we reach the point of comparing a barrel burner like the 22-250 to a 400 Whelen, we're off the chart. I would hazard a guess that the 22-250 had a fried throat long before the "scoured" chamber.

Still waiting for any link to a recognized expert gunsmith noting the danger of "scouring" on large bore, low velocity, low pressure cartridges.

What is the cost to get SAAMI to approve a cart?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
What is the cost to get SAAMI to approve a cart?

Who cares?
The .411 hawk is not SAAMI spec'ed.
Whatever the .411 Hawk can do, the 400 Whelen Petrov 2003 can do better.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
What is the cost to get SAAMI to approve a cart?

I believe you have to be a SAAMI member just to submit a cartridge specification for approval. No idea the cost for membership or the cartridge approval process - I doubt it's inexpensive though...

Edit Added - Extracted from the SAAMI Org website:

quote:

SAAMI Membership

SAAMI Membership is open to any domestic primary manufacturer producing and selling within the United States, or domestic designing firm or corporation causing to be manufactured to its basic design and selling within the United States under its own name, (a) sporting firearms or ammunition subject to the United States manufacturer's excise tax or (b) propellants for sporting ammunition. For this purpose a domestic primary manufacturer producing and selling sporting firearms, ammunition, or propellants within the United States is a United States firm or corporation that sells within the United States a significant quantity of such products and a substantial part of such product is actually fabricated and/or assembled within the United States.

I was asking about SAAMI because of all the 400 Whelen dimension dilemma.

Mart,

I am having pretty good luck with the RL-10X so far. The only problem is that I am almost out and the local emporiums are out. I am going to have to pause for a while until the panic of 2013 is over. I am going to start developement with AA2230. It should be in the right burn rate area. Plus, I have a keg. I will wait for the QC brass before really getting going.
Has anyone reported on the performance of the Speer 350 on game as a 416 or 411/412? With the price and small dia. of the Swift, I may just stick with the Speer for continental US hunting(whitetails in KY).

Rusty

There seem to be two basic personality types on any forum:
Those who have intelligence and do everyone the favor of sharing it.
Those who have nothing to say, and a pathollogical need to prove it.

Rusty,

I've no game experience with the 350 Speer. My suspicion is that it may be a bit tough for the 2300 or so fps the 400 Whelen can generate. It's original intended use was for the 416 Rigby/Remington/Weatherby. I would like to take a caribou, moose or bear with it so see how it does out of the Whelen.

My wife used my 400 Whelen last year to drop her caribou at 250 yards. The load was a 400 grain Woodleigh round nose at 2150 fps. It made the caribou stop what he was doing and fall down. Hard. And fast.

I have long thought about trying RL-10X but alas, they are out up here as well. I saw some RL-15 on the shelf the other day and grabbed a pound of it. Next day all the RL powders they had in were gone. I think any powder in the 4895/3031 range should do well in the 400. I tried 4064 and found it to be pretty slow on the velocities. I have a lot of 4320, my favorite in the 35 Whelen but believe it would be a bit too slow for the 400.

I hope I am able this year to put at least some of the bullets to the test on game. Spring bear is rolling up soon and I just got an older long wide track ski doo for that very reason. It has very few hours and a brand new carb. I'm ready for some grizzlies on snow. I just have to decide which bullet to use.

Mart

I killed a thousand pound bison cow with my 416 RM using the Speer 350 at 2600 muzzle velocity. Hit her at the neck/shoulder junction at about 25 yards distance, and the bullet continued on through to the woods about 100 yards behind her-- we could hear it zipping through trees. She dropped as pole axed, DRT. There were fragments of lead in some of the meat, but the core sailed on through. It should be a good penetrator at 2300 fps and under.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I was asking about SAAMI because of all the 400 Whelen dimension dilemma.

10-4. You could always inquire to SAAMI as to the non-member cost for SAAMI certification/publication of a single standard for a wildcat cartridge.

quote:

It should be a good penetrator at 2300 fps and under.

Thank you whelenite. That sounds good. I think more penetration is better than less. A minimum .411/.416 hole will let a lot of blood leak out.

Rusty and RIP,

Have to gloat a little. My Norma basic brass showed up today. It measures 2.515-2.520 for length. Sorry for the gloat but I was pretty happy to get another 40 of these.

Mart

Mart,
Great! Way to go!
I see the partial headstamp showing "SPECIAL"?
Does the other side of the ring say "NORMA"?
Norma brass is Special, indeed.
Hope to hear from Rusty that the QualCart brass has arrived, one of these days.
We don't know who makes the '06 basic for Remington, Remington doesn't make it.
Blank basic '06 cylindrical brass may be made in 2014 by Captech International/Jamison. I am on the wish list there.
I hope that Peter Cardona was able to get his blank basic brass from Norma,
or Hornady, or Winchester, or Lapua, or, or, ... It is a proprietary secret ya know.

RIP,

It does say Norma Re on the opposite side of the ring the same as my other brass. That gives me 79 round of it. The first batch I bought last year was only 39 rounds. Weather and time permitting I may get to the range Monday. I have the Swift, North Fork and Speer bullets to test. The Hawks haven't arrived yet. I also have some 400 grain Barnes Super Solids to try out. I don't know what I'll use them for. It's been a long time since anyone saw a charging cape buffalo up here, and though I'm getting a bit long in the tooth, the last mammoth was gone before I got here.

On a game note, we just got our draw results. I got a caribou tag. My wife got a caribou and a cow moose tag. I'll try to talk her into using the 400 on her moose. I wold love to see how one of aforementioned 350 grainers would handle a moose.

Mart

Mart

Rusty took some pics as he analyzed the AHR stuck case problem. The AHR cases stick in the FL sizer reloading die from CH4D,
whether the ones he has sent back, or the "400 Whelen JGS" dies by CH4D that I have loaned to him.
BTW, I do have some RCBS 400 Whelen Petrov-PTG 2003 dies on order, as they are a "custom" die order.

Here is the stuck AHR case after it was removed from the CH4D die:



Here is the same case sectioned:



Here is the same sectioned case with the decapper/expander inserted into it:



You can see the shiney areas (inside the sooted fired case) where the expander ball scraped the case sidewalls in the bottom of the case,
jambing tight and sticking the case in the die. Rim pulled/bent and left case in the die.
Stuck case remover drilled and tapped the primer hole.
Marks on the outside of case also show where it stuck in the die.

And, just for fun, here is that original drawing of Townsend Whelen's 1923 400 Whelen cartridge that used a .409-caliber bullet (max brass specs):



Note 1923 accuracy standards with iron sights at 200 yards discussion near the drawing in that original September 1, 1923 article from The American Rifleman.
Full article posted earlier on this thread:

Some more bad news on that QualCart sample sent to me by gordief, Gordon:



Rusty put one of those cases in his lathe and turned the case mouth donut down to flush, for uniform case neck wall thickness.
Then he fired a load that works fine in the Remington 35 Whelen-based brass.

The QualCart brass had the primer just fall out on extraction.
The rim of the QualCart brass expanded from 0.470" diameter before firing, to 0.475" diameter after firing.

This suggests that that batch of Quality Cartridge 400 Whelen was soft, as well as having the case mouth donut.

I sure hope Peter Cardona starts with a better batch of blank basic cylindrical brass when he headstamps the next batch of "400 Whelen."
The source of this brass is a "proprietary secret."

Captech International/Jamison brass of blank basic cylindrical '06 is coming sometime next year.

Thanks to Rusty for checking this stuff out for me. Any other of his comments are welcome.
I will post his latest load data with the 400 Whelen at ammoguide.com.
It comes from a good source.
That is load data for the "400 Whelen Petrov 2003."

Here are the three loads that Rusty has approved for posting at ammoguide.com:



Rusty likes to get a 10-shot chronograph string with acceptable SD and ES before "publishing."
I am posting for him so as to encourage more shop hours and less 'puter time for him.

Any other ammoguide.com members can post their 400 Whelen loads there too. It would be appreciated.
But if anybody has a 10-shot chronograph string for a particular load that they like, I will gladly post the average for the load at ammoguide.com, if they wish.
The more the merrier.

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=863

I have Rusty doing my load development for me,
for the 400 Whelen Petrov 2003.
I think it is about time to try another powder.
The Speer .416-cal/350-grain Mag Tip sized to .412"-diameter seems to be outstanding so far. BC for that one is about .332 before the resize, so it only gets better as it it gets smaller in diameter,
and that seems to be a good and tough bullet.

A wild boar shoot is in order for the 400 Whelen Petrov 2003.
Where can one go to shoot a lot of hogs with the 400 Whelen?

quote:

I guess it is OK for everything up to .375 Howell,
but I wonder how it is made to work for the 400 PDK?
Paul knows

Missed the issue? 411 expander hitting the web?

If that is the case it works for me because Hornady built me a 3 die set for my 400. So my decapper has no expander. If my memory is working I believe that is one of the reasons for the 3 die set requirement.

Now back to my nap.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
... Hornady built me a 3 die set for my 400. So my decapper has no expander. If my memory is working I believe that is one of the reasons for the 3 die set requirement.
Now back to my nap.

Noted.

Been thinking about an old idea. With that .458" shoulder diameter it got me thinking it would be interesting albeit highly impractical unless a custom cast bullet for regular use but in a test of concept to take a 300 grain 458 Raptor and reduce the solid bore rider end to about .430" and you could fire a .458" projectile on an 06 case with a custom bullet. Like the 22 LR but a much larger centerfire.