[/QUOTE]Hi Michael,Any details like what bullet was used and picture of dead buffalo?
[/QUOTE]

I'll post pictures and name when he arrives back home in about two-weeks.

He used 400g. Woodleighs @ 2100 fps.

That will be great, Michael.
We'll all look forward to that picture of Ugandan buffalo killed with 400 Whelen 400-grain Woodleigh,
just a few days ago instead of "four score and seven years ago."

quote:

Originally posted by roughone:
I fired some of the AA2230 61 gr. loads Monday for groups. For some reason the pressure was way too high. Primers were leaking and pockets were loose. The only differances were new lot of brass that was 2.470 long and temp in the 70's, versus 40's previously. I am going to test the TAC loads in similar conditions to see if the problem persists. TAC is supposed to be temperature insensitive. We will see.

That is great news about the buffalo. Please post details as they become available.

Saw this on ABC News crawl this morning "Authorities diffuse explosive device...". Does that mean they blew it up?

Well gosh darn it! I am going to have to go edit the ammoguide table to recommend that AA2230 load from Rusty for arctic hunting only.
Good at 40 degrees F, no good at 70 degrees F.
Better use a Hodgdon Extreme powder next time,
or reduce the powder charge of AA2230 by a couple of grains,
so you don't "diffuse" your rifle when summer gets here.

Speaking of the weather, it was great today, a cloudless, blue sky and about 70 degrees F at Rusty's private range.
I got to intrude on him and his son's range session again today.

Rusty has come up with another accuracy load using TAC and the 350-grain Mag tip from Speer, resized from .416 to .411 using a CH4D bullet sizing die.
1 MOA, about an inch, for 5 shots at 100 yards:

Bullet: Speer Mag tip .411/350-grain
Powder: 63.0 grains Ram Shot TAC (ball powder)
Primer: WLRM
COL: 3.250"
Brass: R-P (35 Whelen, fire-formed)
Velocity: 2277 fps (at 15 feet from muzzle), average of 10 shots
Standard Deviation = 17 fps
Extreme Spread = 57 fps
It is a full case load, not compressed much if any. No pressure signs at 70 F.
Rusty's previous 65-grain TAC load (same 350-grainer at 2354 fps) was mildly compressed.


I have two loads to contribute, popped off over the Oehler 35P today,
I'll be ready to shoot for accuracy next time, with this load:

Bullet: Barnes TSX .411/300-grain
Powder: 60.5 grains H322 Extreme, an extruded powder with grains so small it looks like ball at a glance, meters nicely.
Primer: WLR
COL: 3.265"
Brass: R-P (35 Whelen, fire-formed)
Velocity: 2422 fps (at 15 feet from muzzle), average of 10 shots
Standard Deviation = 7 fps Pretty good for 10-shot Sd.
Extreme Spread = 19 fps
It is a barely compressed load. No pressure signs at 70 F.
(Rusty's last load was 58.5 grains with this bullet and powder, and it was just getting to be a full case then.
I tried 10 shots of 59.5 grain charge and the average velocity was 2404 fps, Sd = 17 fps, ES = 58 fps.)
QuickLOAD says the 60.5 grain charge is about 62Kpsi. I quit there.
Velocity with adjustment to MV would be closer to 2450 fps.

Looks like if we are going to get this TSX bullet (long monometal copper 300-grainer) over 2500 fps,
we need longer throat and longer COL, and full length brass would not hurt,
for aesthetics if nothing else.

My starting load for H4895 Extreme" with 300-grain TSX:

Bullet: Barnes TSX .411/300-grain
Powder: 60.0 grains H4895 Extreme.
Primer: WLR
COL: 3.265"
Brass: R-P (35 Whelen, fire-formed)
Velocity: 2314 fps (at 15 feet from muzzle), average of 11 shots
Standard Deviation = 21 fps
Extreme Spread = 70 fps
It is a mildly compressed load. No pressure signs at 70 F.
H4895 (current lot) is a lot slower than H322, and must be slower than it was 10 years ago?
It is better with 400-grainers than with 300-grainers apparently.
I will use it with 400-grainers and use the H322 with 300-grain TSX.

Fire-form results for 50 pieces of R-P brass using Rusty's COW recipe:

Measured 10 pieces for average lengths before and after fore-forming:

New 35 Whelen brass was 2.487" long.
400 Whelen was 2.465" after fire-formed (longest was 2.470").
Excellent brass.

No cracks or splits.
Clean and lube the chamber before fire-forming.
Lube each case too, and it works perfectly,
if your firing pin fall is strong enough.
We had to use Rusty's Mauser to fire-form my brass.
The Ruger Hawkeye spring seems to be a bit light in the loafers, needs to be replaced with a Wolf spring from Brownell's, eh?

There is enough slop under the Ruger extractor that combined with a light firing pin strike, primer ignition is unreliable.

I suspect the secret of headspacing on the extractor (besides a minimum-slop fit of cartridge rim between bolt face and extractor)
is to have a very strong firing pin strike, and inertial resistance to movement of the cartridge helps set off the primer.

Please tell me again what I need to resize the Speer 350 .416 Mag Tips>?
Those sound like the perfect bullets for my needs.

quote:

Please tell me again what I need to resize the Speer 350 .416 Mag Tips>?

I use a cheap Lee bullet resizer and my rockchucker. I think Rip was driving the bullets through the die with a punch then sending back through with the press.

Snellstrom,
Rusty now tells me that the off-the-shelf Lee .410-caliber sizer for cast bullets may not make perfectly round bullets.
Rusty is using a better quality sizer from CH4D that must be custom ordered.
He also uses an arbor press to push the bullet through, one step sizing.

I have an off-the-shelf .410 sizer from Lee (20 or 30 bucks). I use STP oil treatment as lube (tip from prof242) and squeeze the bullet through with a large bench vice.

I think I better get some of the more expensive (80 to 100 bucks?) sizers from CH4D, and an arbor press from Harbor Freight,
or a Mighty Mite from Corbins, or ...???
The .410 sizer will allow a spring-back to .411 when the .416 Mag Tip is sized.

Rusty: Please feel free to correct anything above, or "sumbuddy who know" may have other ideas?

I am having trouble with ammoguide posting and editing. Will get to it later.

Do note that the H322 58.5 grain load with 300-grain TSX gave 2403 fps at COL of 3.250".

Latest TSX load with H322 used longer COL of 3.265":

59.5 grains of H322 with COL of 3.265" gave 2404 fps.

60.5 grains of H322 with COL of 3.265" gave 2422 fps, with better ES for 10 shots of 19 fps and Sd = 7 fps.

That was 15 feet from muzzle. BC = .280 loses 1 fps per foot of the first 5 yards,
so corrected to muzzle velocity this "better" TSX load gives 2437 fps MV.

Realizing that I had corrected Rusty's first load (300-grain Hornady with RL-10) to MV instead of 5-yard chrono velocity,
and yet have been posting the other loads without correction to MV,
I had to uncorrect that first load.
This way that Load by Rusty gets to be the lowest energy load in the table,
instead of my TSX load with H4895.
But that is a top velocity to be used with the frangible Hornady 300-grainer.
The Barnes TSX can stand some higher velocity,
more than the 400 Whelen Petrov of 2003 can deliver.
I have also added warning comments on all three of the AA2230 loads.
AA2230 seems to be too temperature sensitive for my interest.
Good to know.
You get to see load details/comments if you are a member of www.ammoguide.com and click on "View."
The COL and Sd info, and WARNINGS, are listed in comments in load details.
The COL difference explains why there is so little velocity increase from 58.5 to 60.5 grains increase of H322 with the TSX 300-grainer.
That 60.5 grain-load is a good one and should be considered a maximum load.



And I am able to hide those three AA2230 loads from public view with three clicks of the mouse.
Only 15 loads show now, instead of 18, here:


400 Whelen - http://ammoguide.com/?catid=863

I received the .410 bullet sizing die from CH yesterday. The .416 400 gr RN Hornady is very difficult to size in one pass, so I first sized them in the .411 die. They measure .411 after going through the .410 die, except for the heel of the bullet. It is .4105. The base does not spring back like the lead-filled shank. An interesting note: after several hours since sizing, the lead nose of the bullet extrudes about .010. Should not hurt anything, but looks like a little nipple. This extrusion is not apparent on the 350 Speers.

Nipples!
I gotta get a picture of that!

It sounds like someone is into projectile porn.

The only good treatment for Projectile Dysfunction (PD) is a blue pill test, or proof load of sorts, to verify the accuracy of the the hole poking.

I knew that wayward rifles with female names tended to languish luxuriously at Hilltop Gun Shop and Spa, but now the bullets are showing their nipples there too?

Get some pasties on those things ... after I come by with a camera ... before you get raided by your wife!

I just heard back from my friend Nathan Heineke who has returned home. I guess there were two buffalo :-). Both taken with the .400-Whelen he built.

Nathan is a custom rifle maker, you can visit his web site here,

www.nlheineke.com

Couple of very nice looking Bufs. I was supposed to use my 400PDK this year on a Buf. Then the darn heart valve gave out. Now looking like 2015. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Hunter is the gunsmith who built this 400 Whelen rifle, eh?
Mighty nice.

That is a very wide buffalo shown in the first photo, +46"???:

RIP, good eyes...! That buffalo was measured at 46" in the field. Two other good buffs were taken by Nathan's friend Scott during the same trip, with a .450 Rigby also built by Nate. The rifles show outstanding craftsmanship, I have to say. I've seen rifles built by top British gunmakers that were not as well finished and balanced as these NL Heineke.

Nice trophy buff

Wow, that's a nice buffalo!

That is a great rifle, and well applied.

Now, an anticlimax alert. I loaded some 360 gr cast bullets the other day. The load is 35 gr AA5744, WLR primer, RP brass. Ave. vel. for five shots - 1828 fps. Sd - 16. ES - 47. The accuracy was < 2 in. for 3 to 5 shots at a time, but as the barrel fouled the POI shifted, leaving the 10 shot group about 4 in. It is good enough for practice and deer hunting. And I don't see dollar signs going down range at every shot. Now I can waste my money on silly things like food and clothes for the kids.

someone asked about the biggest bore rifle one could do on the '06 case. I shot one at a range up in Montana while visiting Buhmiller about 35 years ago. The case, FL, had the case mouth dimensions of the 45 acp. Yep, headspaced on the casemouth. I would guess that the headspacing would be a bit fussy to establish.

quote:

case, FL, had the case mouth dimensions of the 45 acp. Yep, headspaced on the casemouth.

I show the ACP to be .471 at the mouth. I have 30-06 cases that are smaller than that at the head and web. One of those reverse tapers.

Nipple that grew on a Hornady .416-caliber/400-grain RNSP after it went through a .410-caliber die and sprang back to .411-caliber, on left is a .416 before sizing, on right is a .411 with a nipple:



Rusty said that the exposed lead did not show a nipple immediately after the sizing, but only a day or 2 later did he notice it.

quote:

Originally posted by roughone:
That is a great rifle, and well applied.

Now, an anticlimax alert. I loaded some 360 gr cast bullets the other day. The load is 35 gr AA5744, WLR primer, RP brass. Ave. vel. for five shots - 1828 fps. Sd - 16. ES - 47. The accuracy was < 2 in. for 3 to 5 shots at a time, but as the barrel fouled the POI shifted, leaving the 10 shot group about 4 in. It is good enough for practice and deer hunting. And I don't see dollar signs going down range at every shot. Now I can waste my money on silly things like food and clothes for the kids.

That is a great reduced load for ammoguide.com.

I made a good buy on some Barnes 300 grain X bullets. Got three boxes for $25.00 each. He has 4 more boxes.

411 X

Mart

I just returned from the range with a new load for the 400W. I am using the 400 gr. Hornady .416, sized to .411.
Powder - 59 gr. Ramshot TAC (Full, not compressed)
Primer - WLRM
Case - R-P 280R blown out and trimmed to 2.484

Average Velocity - 2114
sd - 6
ES - 10

When I loaded 3 with 60 gr. for a quick sniff test, the velocity spread was over 100 fps and the primer pockets expanded. 59 gr. is definitely maximum.

It appears to group well, but I can't be sure because my 30mm Burris Euro Black Diamond scope has had the guts kicked out of it. When I started shooting I was having trouble seeing the target. The chronograph was in perfect focus. By the time I finished, all I could see of the target (Redfield) was a white, fuzzy square. After tightening the posi-lok, I put 6 into a 2x4 in group. Before that, the group was 6x6. I would have expected better from Burris. I guess I will stick with Leupold on the kickers.

Rusty,
How many shots fired for that Sd = 6 and ES = 10?
What is the COL? 3.250" or crimped on the cannelure and not 3.250"?

Even Leupolds are getting badmouthed around here lately, Nikons are the new kid on the block.
I have merely started adding Nikons to my scope collection.
No problems with Leupolds by me,
except for about a 5% of them that have had to be warranty-repaired then returned to me to give no more problems.

I have yet to have a Leupold 2.5x-8x Vari-X III 36mm Objective (or whatever they are calling them now) give a problem.
I have used that scope more than any other scope in my shooting.
It is the ultimate scope for light weight and versatile power, ruggedness and adaptability to most rifles, IMHO.

Ron,
Oops, 10 shots over the Oehler. OAL, counting nipple - 3.250". If this load shoots this good with Woodleighs it will be great. I will be saving my lunch money to buy some.

I just mailed a Nikon back. It came in on a used gun and looked like it would make a good addition. The guy had bought it new and put it on a 243 WSSM. 12 rounds fired, total. A 3-9x40. I put it on a 308 I had just barreled. Went to the range and got 6+ inches between shots. Took the gun apart and checked everything. Went back to the range and shot a 4 shot 4 in. group. Swapped it out with a pre-mounted and bore sighted Leupold. The next 5 shots went into .9 in. I have had one Leupold that had to go back, and it had never been on anything but .22 lr rifles. Go figure.

Above is the latest load from Rusty.
I have uncensored those AA-2230 loads, marked the 60.0 grain charge as max and made comments on the excessive ones.
20 loads showing now, handloaders beware.
There are bullet diameters of .410 and .411 in the 400-grainers, the .411-caliber Woodleigh is speedier than the .410-grain Hornady.
Temperatures and bullet lengths affect pressures too:

Looks like H4895 is going to be impossible to beat for top velocity and low pressure with 400-grainers.

Other tricks:
If Dave Manson ever makes the reamer, some extra free bore, only 0.300" length of parallel-sided is all I ask, plus only a few thou of extra case length,
and a whopping 3-thou less of neck taper.

I reckon I will be able to use the 400 Whelen Petrov of 2003 dies from RCBS, by just adding my own neck sizing die,
for the 400 Whelen Berry of 2013.

Plus, I shall select 650mm instead of 600mm for the new barrel length.

I am expecting to add over 100 fps to the above velocities,
especially after correcting to MV by adding the 12-13 fps lost over the 5 yards to the chronograph.

Rusty:
If you order some .411"/400-grain Woodleigh Weldcores, then get a box or two for me too.
That will give me an excuse to check on how Bridget is doing at Hilltop Gun Shop and Spa for Wayward Rifles.

quote:

Rusty:If you order some .411"/400-grain Woodleigh Weldcores, then get a box or two for me too.That will give me an excuse to check on how Bridget is doing at Hilltop Gun Shop and Spa for Wayward Rifles.

Now I get to be the bullet fairy.
Bridget has been manhandled, but so far has not reached completion.

No, I do not believe in the Bullet Fairy, but you are always bragging about how you get a better buy on something after I have bought it,
so I will gladly repay you someday to see if you can do better than me on this.
BTW, what is Peter Cardona of QualCart doing with all that 400 Whelen brass with internal donuts near the case mouths?
Maybe we better tell him to send it back to us and we will fix it ourselves?

3 months since I ordered the reamer (400WBof2013), Dara says by email that Dave Manson acknowledges the order, again ... but no telling as yet when to expect it.
I will post the drawing signed by The Dave whenever I get one.
See if I got everything right:

I must tip my hat to you Rip and 400W crew for keeping this cart alive and kicking in style. The Colonel would be proud I'm sure. No not Sanders Rip... Please be Colonel Sanders for Haloween and post pics.

http://www.americangrouch.com/...send-whelen.html?m=1

quote:

Looks like H4895 is going to be impossible to beat for top velocity and low pressure with 400-grainers.

I'm found 4895 to give me the max velocity for my 400s in my 400PDK. Probably due to my slightly larger case I can compress enough RL15 to almost match my 4895 velocity. RL15 does seem to give me better accuracy but not enough to worry about at the range this cartridge is intented.

The Kentucky-Fried 400 Whelen Berry of 2013 reamer is shipping from Dave Manson today.
Mrs. Dave Manson, Ms. Anne herself, called to tell me this AM.
Ms. Manson said they have been very busy, the run on guns and ammo has affected even the tool-making business, same thing Dave told me two months ago.
The usual front office person, Dara, is out on leave, may have affected communications, I guess.
But work has been going on with this reamer for just a bit over 3 months. Not bad.

http://www.funnyordie.com/vide...s-from-that-happened



You can click on the above link and listen to Col. Sander's last senile attempt at making a KFC commercial.
Play it in the background as you read shootaway posts and some things will make more sense, or maybe not.

A Shilen .411"-grooved/.404-bored, No. 4 contour, 1:14" twist, stainless, 28" barrel to be finished at 25"- 26" length is on order.
I want to have Rusty McGee, Gunsmith install it on a stainless M70 Winchester "Classic."
That will turn my 35 Brown Whelen into a 400 Whelen Berry.
Sort of a switch-barrel rifle, but there is not much use for a 35 Brown Whelen if you already have a Pre-64 M70 custom 35 Whelen.




I R. A. Berry