Here is picture of a NEF breach barrel section that I threaded
monoblock style for a .585" cal barrel, to make a NEF 585HE.
It goes on a SB2 10-12ga alloy, super strong frame. Its
OD is 1.210" and the barrel that screws into it will be tapered
to match contour and it will be 1.00" at muzzle, at 32" long.
I figure that my 585 will extract due to its good taper from
the NEF at 45,000 psi loads, and bolt thrust will match the
12ga RMC case loads I use on the same type gun.And a 45k load
with powders I use will get me 10,000 ft lbs. MRc sent everyone
letters saying finishing PH is getting closer.ED

Got the 585HE NEF together and firing.
Used a 585 barrel, 32" long, 1 to 22 twist.
Chambered for my 585HE belted case.
I used a SB2 10ga action which is same as the 12ga
Ultra actions.I cut it off to make a 4" long monoblock.
and threaded it 1 inch by 14tpi. I'm going to do a second
one in 28GA FH and a third for a heavy barrel 16ga FH.
My 585 is best of all 585s, as the following info will
show. I have a 45-70 extractor coming to rework for it.
I am firing first bunchs of test loads without
an extractor, and loads with 650 gr bullets at 2450 and
750 gr bullets at 2250 didn't need the extractor. They
come out with my fingers. Over 8000 ft lbs.I getting thumbhole
stock, because those with higher velocities of extra 200fps, or
more, harder to hold on to grip.Guard bangs the fingers
And higher velocity cases come out with a pry from my thumbnail.
Here is picture of rear of gun and the fixins(bullets/cases).
You see a fired case in the chamber, and I have cone breach
setup so that case is in same relationship to chamber as it
is in my three 585HE bolt guns.That is why I can get cases
with my fingers. The hairier loads of
650 at 2650, 750 at 2450 is 10,000 ft lbs.
Cases working this easy, and my 700 is same way,is due to
thick bases, proper inside corner radius , and right taper
to the sides. Both 700 and 585 have similiar taper.
Example; the 585HE has good taper, but still only
less than 1/3 the taper that
a BMG case has..Ed

Some mention only need 577NE power from bolt gun.
After trying a few different short lengths,
made up a short 585 2.7 inch case from Gibbs brass,
that headspaces on the mouth and extractor, like
the 50 B&M Mag posted on here and the 50 Ram and
many others that have been publicized. This may
be the first of this design in 577/585.
Put 585 barrel on my Ruger77, chambered it. Fired it,
650gr 2300, 750gr 2100. Pressures about 50,000 psi.
One case fired 25 times, still good,extracts easy,
good firing pin dent. I made chamber exactly 2.7".
Cases are .005" over. snug fit.Cases tested had
3.3" overall length.

It works in any gun with good extractor and tight chamber.
Case holds 135 gr ball powder to base of 650 gr Woodleigh.
This get the 577 power in any bolt gun that isn't of
a real long long design like Enfield,CZ,PH.
It will do in shorter than Enfield, LIKE- Mausers, WIN70,
some leverguns,etc, mil surplus, and a dozen other guns.
Couple guys are going to do it in a MN.

I will get exact reamer done soon for guys to use,
and can get cases to set up. No run of brass
has to be made. This isn't neccessarily to replace
my 585HE long case, just to supplement it and get guys
extra guns shooting from stuff they already have or can
get,and a supply of cases to get used up.
No run of brass has to be made at a mfg.
Everybody needs two 577/585s.....Ed

Ed,
Neal and I had simular results with the 550 express. I had wanted it to be 2.5 inchs, same as the winmag .. turned out the bullet cannelure set our brass length, as the design was .800 for one bullet, and .700 for another.

the formula is pretty basic, once discovered.
target oal = case length + bullet outside of the brass

and aiming at 3.34/3.35 it turned out to be
2.65 -550 express
2.65 500 AR
2.55 for 470, 458, and 416 ar

if the 550 express is any indication, based off case and SD, 2150+750 is probably doable, though at about 60,000 PSI ...

I redid Ruger to 2.7" case. 750gr got 2200 with
130gr of W748 ball powder. 50k pressures by
my formula.Someone check what QL shows.. H20 capacity
is 155-160 gr.28" bbl. And only had in 4 reloads, have to
size top half the case.The supply of basic cases
should get a quite a few into 577/585 land.
In regular length guns.Ed

ed, what's your case H2O capacity? Neal and I thought we were at lower pressure than the LAB RESULTS returned. one shouldn't argue with the labs, even though all case and primer signs said "fine"

also, remember bolt thrust, which goes up with the gibbs casehead over the weatherby case...

Capacity of 2.7 inch case is 155-158 gr water.
28 inch barrel.1 to 22 inch twist.
If you run ball powders, like Win, VV or new
Alliant ones you will get lower peak pressures
although higher Mean Barrel Pressure.Ed

that's basicaly the same as the 550mag .. my original estimate was more like 135... so, 156 would mean you should be able to go about 2350, with a 750, in a 24" (i know, you've got a 28, but 24 is more a hunting length) ... at about 61, to 62k, with modern ball powders.. basis lab results from the 550 mag, courtesy of Neal, who spent a fortune getting the lab work done

It don't even expand bottom half of case at all.
Case is pushing about same density of a load compared to
a 458 510 gr published by Hodgdon and WIN
at 41k CUP or 48-50,000 psi loads.

As for bolt thrust the Ruger's original lugs rated
34,000 lbs shear same as my Enfields. But it and my Enfields
all have bearing lug added to heavy bolt handle base,
so total shear rating is 54,000 plus. Which is why I could
put my 700H 3.25 in an Enfield. At 60k, if the 585 is
that level, the case thrust is only 13,000 lbs.ED

Here is pic of 700H 3.25" in a NEF with
32" 700cal barrel mono-blocked in.
Got 825 gr up to 2400 ok. It is on the original
NEF 12GA FH SB2 alloy frame, as that one has
beefed up hammer for big bmg size primers.
Gun total weight is 16 lbs. Muzzle is 1.15".
It is coned breach just like 585HE. Slower(2000fps)
loadings, cases come out with fingers.ED

Got 700 H 3.25 in PH- setup thumbhole stock temporarily as
a singleshot to test. Fired test load of 825gr at
3000 fps. 65,000 psi. Extracted ok.1st fired outside factory.
Now it is strong and safe, as I set up the third bearing
bolt lug on the heavy bolt handle base. Shear rating
of all 3 lugs about 56,000 lbs. Test load thrust 21,000 lbs.
Normal max loads for 700H in PH will be 825gr
at 2850 and 1000gr at 2700.Hunting loads about 24-2500.
I will get the mag parts built next few weeks to hold
700 cases singlestack with 2 down, one in chamber.Ed

Got single stack mag figured out for 12GA FH and
my 700H 3.25 in PH. I fit a bolt action 12ga
box mag and its follower and spring
inside the PH mag box. Easy to fit in metal box,
and permanently mounted to PH metal box.
Holds 2 down. That way feed lips already a working
design. Tried opened back of 12ga box for longer case
like I did with my 700 in Savage 210.Maybe it
will work. Added message- it didn't work good,
so trying another idea, Maybe slso work
for anyone doing a PH in 12ga FH if they aren't
loaded too long or with 3.5" RMC cases. Here is picture
PH from the bottom showing its size.You can see in pic
there still is room to make box longer yet.
And the feed port can be longer.Ed

Here is comparison picture of my 585 and shorter
cases for Boomie. First is 3" case made from
Gibbs with real straight sides. 2nd is a
3" version with base same as my long one,
that is made from OK brass, 3rd is
3" one made by shortening my 585 long
case, 4th is my long 585 case,
5th is the 2.7" 585 Short Hubel Express.
I can get cases to make my long one and 3"
from it cheaper than getting the other case
that only makes 3", but I can only
make a small number, so we need a run made.
We all can have the length we want when a
run of cases gets done.Ed

Great pic and thank you Ed
It is cool to see the 3" version we discussed made from your special stock and the 600 OK case.

Fitting the 3" version in a Win model 70 is a cool option and with less rebate (Same as the RUM case)

Friend got the 585 short case in the Ruger 77 and bunch cases.
Made himself a resize die. Going deer hunting with it.
It is in the picture.
Picked name and listed in Ammoguide - 585 Short HE.
Next ones probably will be Mausers and WIN,
as soon as barrels get rounded up by various
guys that want to venture into 585 recoil land.

I got magazine and feeding done for 700H in PH action,
And it feeds fine. I copied the feed lips from top of 12ga
box magazines used in 12ga bolt guns. I used 2 of the
PH metal mag boxes, with one riveted inside the other
and extended up about .20" to make a single stack
center feed setup. To fit inside box metal into outside box
metal, I cut off the back of one and reversed it. Perfect
fit and width. I used follower and spring from
the Savage 210 12ga.I profiled the feed lips to hold case
when it is to the back of the magazine, then when it slides
forward the lips are cut away and the cases pops up in front
of the bolt and under the extractor for controlled feed.
Have pics soon of box and the big case feeding.Took half the
summer off and on to get all this to work.Ed

does the middle case have a name? The 3 inch case with proper body taper.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:


does the middle case have a name? The 3 inch case with proper body taper.

I did not discuss the name with Ed but I like the 577 Express


I was tinkering around with the idea of making a 577 based on the 600 OK case with the belt zipped off and a new belt formed on the casehead and after some time and research I seemed to come close to what Ed had already designed but the 3" length so I asked him if it was possible to make the cases from OK cases and he said yes and here you see one made. I figured why be a few thou off here and there with my own design but just do a 3" version. The name I was thinking of was the 577 Express but in essence it is a 585 HE 3"

I like it because it can fit in a 375 HH length gun, the belt diameter and length are the same as the 577 NE 3" and it can be formed from existing brass.

I'm curious; can you define "proper body taper"? I have always gone with enough to make the loaded round feed, and it varies tremendously from case to case. Is it 30-06, or 300H&H, 7STW, or somewhere in between? The one on the left feeds in my P17.

Rich
577BME shooter

Rich, I feel good taper is needed for sure extraction
with heavy loads and/or cases warm up in hot weather
raising pressures/ Also rusty or dirty chambers. And
you fired relatively low pressure loads, compared to
hairy ones I been doing. The taper on my 585 HE
is still about 25% shallower angle than a 458 Lott.
But the case on the left I did for Boomie from the
Gibbs brass the side taper is over 3 times
shallower than a Lott case.Hardly any taper.
And the inside corners weren't right after cases done.
So it is not the feeding process that is affected
much by the taper.It is extraction.

Boomie-How about the 3" version made by shortening mine
be the 577 BME now...A thought. Either long or shorter,
we got to get a run made as I don't have the time
and energy to do them with the belt.

But if guys want 577 or little better power, without
wait,in short action Mausers, WIN, REM, Rugers,etc,
consider my 585 Short HE. I can do those cases fast
by the hundreds.It'll go 3.2"- 3.3" mags ok.Most guys
got actions that will do, just get barrel. I'll have
reamer soon. And still could do the longer ones later.
Nothing like having one for deer/hogs and one for
buff/bear/trex. Ed

I agree with boom right down the line. 577 Hubel Express sounds like the sweet spot size (3 inch) and name (577).

quote:

Boomie-How about the 3" version made by shortening mine
be the 577 BME now...

Hmmm...
Might be a tad confusing but I kinda like the simplicity of the 577 Express more for a cool future headstamp. Kinda like the 550 magnum and 550 express for the shorter version.

Here are pictures of the PH single stack magbox holding
a 700H 3.25" case and the MRC PH feeding a case
from the magbox. It slips up under the extractor
and feeds great. The feed lips hold case angled
up a little, when bolt is pulled back so that when
bolt is pushed forward it picks up case and case
goes into reciever, then the chamber without
hanging up. In other words when bolt starts forward it
is pointed into reciever like a properly working
single stack shotgun mag works. When the case
clears the rear lips it goes right under the
extractor.Hooray.

There is a guy with a new gun book
out called rexgun. In it he has formulas that rates
cartridges for their power in killing big things.
My 700HE long case is second from the top,
with the top being a high velocity 4bore in
a modern action.If he had the 700H 3.25 in
the list, with its top load, it would be third.
If he had Rob's 700 and our 12ga FH in list with
top loads they'd both be in 2nd with my 700HE and
700H 3.25 would be third..Ed

Deer/hog/bear guys are getting interested in 585
Short HE, as there are two now and in a month
or two as they round up the barrels there will be a few
more. Ruger, Enfield so far done, and guys planning Mauser,
Savage, Win, Enfield and older Ruger like first one. Ed

I got a bunch of 700HE 3.25" and 585HE dies sets
here now with some reamers. In the picture is some
of the 700 stuff. There are 4 700 die sets here
now and 4 reamers. And more coming.
Got 4 585HE dies and more coming too.

On my 585 Short HE we got two shooting in a
older Ruger 77 and an Enfield. Soon a bunch
more in another Ruger, WINs, Savage, some
Mausers.It work in regular length actions.
Soon have reamers for 585 Short HE.
We got cases in great numbers.Ed

Here is picture of a FB I found that I put
my 585HE in. It didn't need any work on the
feed trough to feed. 585 case shown in it.
In fact the trough is big enough
and the action big enough for 600NE, 3.5" 20ga
brass, 3.5" 16ga FH, my 700 HE long case.
I reworked a NEF stock to fit it, as I'm not
a stockmaker.Nice action.Ed

Who made that falling block? Looks like fun!

Matthew

It is a FBW, and not real common.
I'm going try to find some more, for
I think it will be in demand. Ruger,
Wickcliff, others can't handle the size
of cases and pressure this one will.Ed

Let me know if you find a source!

Matthew

Just contacted them.

Only has 2 or 3 of big Model L pictured.
May have more in spring.

Does have a few Model S, next size down,which will
do for cases as big as my 585HE.I got
an S model coming for 585 and going to
put bigger in the big Model L.

FBW- Leo Fix- Rapid City, MI-
1-231-590-7391

I bought the last model L for now! Thanks for the info ED!

Matthew

Here is picture of the FBW falling block with my
700HE long case in it.This falling block is 1.5"
wide, with a 1.125" wide breach block.
The sides are .187" thick next to breach block.
This compares to about .165" say for a Browning
B-87, Win copy. The feed trough would work with
12ga size rim if some work was done on the top
of the hammer. This has a barrel thread length of
1.005", thread diameter of 1.125" for good
strength. Ed

I getting autoloader set up for my 585 HE long case.
Also be a switch barrel to test 12ga smoothbore
3.5" hopped up slugs loads with original barrel.
It is originally a 3.5" 12ga autoloader I've reworked
the stroke and have a barrel extension coming to add
585 28" barrel. Gun is weighted, thick double pad.
We are going to see how mild 585 HE loads of
9,000 ft lbs work in autoloader.Ed

I got a FBW Model S now putting my
585HE barrel in it. Going to use
bigger Model L for my 700HE and
a 20ga 3.5" switchbarrel.Working with
Model S shows that my 585 goes into a
Ruger #1 easy, which I will do later.Ed

Ed,
Your a genius, I think the shotgun auto loader is an inspired idea.
Please keep us posted on that one.
How much pressure do you think that action is good for?
What brand is it?

John

It'll hold medium pressures, giving the same
bolt thrust as our hopped up 3.5" plastic case
slug loads.(running 15-16,000 psi). The 585HE
equivalent for bolt thrust about 35,000 psi.
Enough to get 8000 ft lbs energy.The gun is
Turkish made 3.5" Khan.Nice gun, got it weighted.
extra Limbsaver slipon pad. Shot 570 gr 12ga
smoothbore slugs at 2400, comfy.Ed

Here is pic of my two FBWs in my long 585HE.
Top is Model L in one piece stock, my invention,
an idea copied from my 4bore in one piece stock.
I am doing 2nd L in 3.5" 20ga.In same kind stock.
Bottom is Model S with regular style, two
piece stock.Got guys going to do 585 in Ruger #1
and MRC PH this summer.ED

How about this trex..

When I made the 16ga FH from BMG cases, I had
cases partly swaged and worked down and did
the following. I'm always asked if I can do a
bottleneck case.. So I expanded a swaged and
worked down case to .585" bore and we now
have the 585 Hubel Super Magnum. Case shortened
to 3.6", base .765", shoulder .735". It has a
good taper like the Gibbs.Case has a
look of a scaled up Gibbs which is in the
picture for comparison and setting one up in
an Enfield with added lugs like I did for
my 585H 3.25. Holds over 240 gr ball powder,
get over 16,000 ft lbs if you want.
This will be my only bottleneck case.
And if it has the sides straight with
blown out shoulders it is 585HSM IMP.
In picture a Gibbs for comparison.
I could even make it feed from a PH with
mods and mag box work.ED

That's a thing of beauty.

What an awesome monster

Karl.

Here is picture of PH, with port lengthened
with my 585HSM. I also have change barrel
for my 700HE long case, which works in
the action also. Imagine over 20,000 ft lbs
in a PH with my 700HE long case. And the
gun behind in picture is the 700H 3.25"
in PH. Also in pic is the 585HSM cases. Ed

The PH can have bolt stops changed for 700H 3.25"
or left out for real long cases like 700HE.
Picture shows how to get different lengths
of bolt travel. Action can opened for real
mag box also.Ed