The above idea to allow the toggle link
to move hammer back so pin is retracted,
is idea I swiped from some actions
in the Single Shot book. Using NEF
hammer. With the NEf ,the trigger is
under the hammer and to far forward to
reach with trigger finger due to the way the stock contours. Original Wickcliffe trigger
was real long so it would he back in the
guard right and reachable.But it was wrong
to fit NEf hammer, but a $5 one from GP
for Stevens 820 break action is perfect.
This action designing is real fun.Ed

Finally got my Pac Nor in... OHHH MY GOD!!!! 1.75 straight (no) taper, 28" long and HUUUUGE hole down the middle. I swear I could sink the Bismark with this thing!! I'm completely psycho about it now. I wanna shoot it YESTERDAY, okay, calm down, FEDs are probably red-flagging me now. State Arms... Here I come!!

You're gonna have fun I see.Send
us pics when gun is together.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by nmpyro:
Finally got my Pac Nor in... OHHH MY GOD!!!! 1.75 straight (no) taper, 28" long and HUUUUGE hole down the middle. I swear I could sink the Bismark with this thing!! I'm completely psycho about it now. I wanna shoot it YESTERDAY, okay, calm down, FEDs are probably red-flagging me now. State Arms... Here I come!!

You know that you should take it to Texas for a Bubba shoot! Those men will have a hoot with that!

366- I think Jeff and friends would like it.

Here is pictures of the breech, lever,
linkage, etc, set up on a block to
get the geometry for the model working
ok.And setup measurements to make the breech
hole in the action, in right place.Also used
this model to get hammer and trigger set
up to ride on the breech block. With
a strong hammer and trigger in the right
place in the guard. Ed

In the pics above you see the pin the
lever pivots on. The actions being bigger
will be wider than the levers.So the space on the pivot will be taken up by the Ruger
style extractor on the left side and a spacer
on the right side. Spacer also acts as a
breech block stop at the bottom of the
breech travel.So to get block stopped at
right position for the diameter of the case
and feed trough, we adjust spacer size.
Ruger extractors from GP changed
a little bit will do.Ed.

For the scaled-up FB action we designed
a lever/triggerguard that works, by giving a
longer throw, so breech comes down far
enough for all the big cases. And
I mean all that I have made. It has to
pivot little lower thus making action
a 1/4" deeper on the bottom, but the
lines of the action still look ok,
in my drawings.We are making the back of action same amount deeper for thicker, stronger
stock, so it all balances out. Ed.

One cartridge progression up to my 700HE
from a variety of cases I have----
408 CheyTac- T-Rex Necked to 416- 600 OK-
510HE- 585HE- 700H 3.25- 12GA FH-
and 700HE.Ed

One thing I am putting into the design of
this action is to set the feed ramp size
according to the case diameter.My 700HE
and 50BMG will be one size. 12GA FH
with bigger rim will little bigger.
The BMG and 700 will feed in 12Ga
Both of the above on same width action.
4bore will be bigger size and action
and breechblock wider.Same lever & toggle.
And the the reason to set feed ramp
for case size is to make for smooth path
for loading and ejecting cases. The breechblock
travel at the bottom of the stroke
will be set for each size of case by
changing stop position on the block where
it contacts the spacer on the right side of the
lever pin. The top of breechblock is level
across for 700HE,BMG,12ga, etc and concave
a little for 4bore, like Ruger has theirs.
That allows a 4bore with combination of the longest down stroke and concave block to
feed and clear on ejection.The 4bore rim is
.32" bigger than 12ga rim. My case and Ken's. As you can see I am not hurrying through
this developement process, as I want to
make it as simple and easy to do with
lest number of parts, with parts only needing
minor work to fit all different cases.Ed

We will have barrel in a while to put on
Enfield for the 700H 3.25 case. The action is ready and I have it setup with 5 locking lugs.
Two in the front that contact lug seats
with about 60% of the top of the bolt lugs,
a heavy lug on the bolt handle base, and
two lighter lugs in rear bridge.All 5 contact
evenly. Bolt thrust with a 700H, 35k load, is
about 11,500 lbs, and about same as my 585HE
at 60k, which I have in another Enfield, with
two regular front lugs and a lug on bolt
handle base.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
One cartridge progression up to my 700HE
from a variety of cases I have----
408 CheyTac- T-Rex Necked to 416- 600 OK-
510HE- 585HE- 700H 3.25- 12GA FH-
and 700HE.Ed

Holy Spit!! You make the 408 look like a 308!!

A question, what is the case head diameter of the T-Rex?

366- One here is .682 base same as belt size
of 600 OK. Are, 408s, Trex's, Rigby's,ASqs,
Weatherby's, Nyatis, 395s, 416s etc,
maybe tending to be peashooters??.Ed

Oh my God! .682, .68 F*****g 2 and it looks THAT small!!!

Thanks hubel!

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
366- One here is .682 base same as belt size
of 600 OK. Are, 408s, Trex's, Rigby's,ASqs,
Weatherby's, Nyatis, 395s, 416s etc,
maybe tending to be peashooters??.Ed

Ed, you and RGB make pain look like an horderve!!!!! What did the Big Five do to deserve such hitting power!!
All tongue in cheek of course, BUT I'm impressed with the Mammoth hitting power they must possess.

366
All I can tell you is the the recoil from Ed's Savage is "managable" by a little guy like myself (it weighs enough, and it's well balanced) IOW my 5'8 180lb frame didn't have any problems with firing it several times in a row.

A double pumper big bore,
20 shots altogether, In
classifieds over on THR.
A double 870, can fire single
or both the same time.. Ed

Looking at double 870 and a crazy
suggestion from Big Al, got me into
an idea to research. I get falling block
going, and am around long enough, I gonna
do a doublebarrel for my 510 HE or
a 28GA FH on a double falling block.
Maybe by 2010. It so damn cold here, both
old fellows part time warm weather shops are
to cold to work. It's 5 above now.My boy and
I got our wood boilers going like
steam engines.A few weeks will be over.Ed.

Ed,

you have a Wickliffe there for comparison, tell me why we couldn't do some millwork on the left side of one, and the right side of another and make a double rifle in a falling block variation. Where they fit together you could leave the center section to function like a dolls head third fastener, and mill a slot for it to ride in a corresponding notch in the two breech blocks sandwiched common area. Single selective trigger and a pushbutton safety such as the one on a Remington 870 pump...? Mill the two "insides" to end up with a common wall thickness just a bit wider than the "outside" wall. All you would need to do to connect the two separate breech blocks is make a spacer plate to match the width of the center "wall" and notch the top for the dolls head/crossbolt-style center section.
Talk to me Ed.

regards,

Rich
DRSS
a DR that is not just a horse of a different color...but a zebra

Rich-I drawed plans for one few years ago
after I looked at a Ruger.I figured maybe
a wide breech block from side to side, with
2 firing pins, thicker sides to action,
good heavy breech front to back, end up about
as wide as one built for high pressure 4bore.
A wider hammer with flip deal on the top
to hit pins. Cock it and fire one barrel,
the cock again and the contactor flips and
fire other barrel. Only need one trigger.
We get scaleup going we'll get to this
in future. Ed.
Be big enough for 500NE, my 510HE,etc.
Have to be about 2" wide total.
To do one for 12ga/700HE size would have to
be about 3" wide.Ed

Here is the first breech block for the model
I have finished. You can see trigger and hammer
mounted in back of block, so hammer cocks
easy even with double springs, to fire
big primers, and trigger ends up in the
guard in the right place.Ed.

To Ed or Robgunbuilder, I spent most of Saturday reading the threads about the 700HE and the 12GA FH. I have to say it"s been awhile since I found something more fascinating. I am confused about the ATF regs on DD and was hoping I could get some clarification. I"m leaning to the 700 HE built on State Arms action so I can go back to 50 bmg once I recover from the recoil of the 700. I understand the 12 GA FH is not a DD because of the shotgun rim but I"m not sure of the 700 HE. Could you clear this up for me? I spent rest of weekend making dummy rounds for buddies and they are all worried about my mental state now. I thought I heard one of them mention a straightjacket. Thanks, RandyB in Texas.

Randy-- The State Arms is a super
strong action and you'll be able to
get all the power from the 700HE.
Just use a longer barrel like 30" and
wt the gun and the recoil won't be bad.
The 12GA FH is exempted as a shotgun
because it is just a longer 12ga chamber and as long as any shorter 12ga fires in chamber
it is a 12ga. IE you can't take 30mm brass and neck it to 12ga and be exempted as a
12 guage cartridge, as chamber
wouldn't fire other 12 ga rounds.
My 700HE is exempt as I used the "sporting use"
rules allowing me to apply for the cartridge to have a sporting use determination by
the ATF. Which I did and it is classified
as sporting cartridge. RNS did that with the
550 Mag, JD Jones does that with his over
50cal cases, and others.Ed

A hint about power--It ate the whole
thing, Trex that is....
Couldn't resist...And I am setting
up thumbhole stock for my Enfield that
I am doing the 3.25" case in. Ed

I have 1st scaleup model roughed out and
will have breech block fitted in it in
a while along with lever.Also at same time
am whittling a stock to stick on it
to check layout and looks.Will post pic
in a few days.Ed

In the big cases ,the scaled up falling block
we are making a model of ,will extract
rimless cases just as well or maybe better
that rimmed. It will use a ruger #1 style
extractor and that type of extractor
slips under the rim into an extractor groove
easier that it would for a same base size
rimmed case, where rim is bigger.Extractor
rides on same pin as lever, and also is in
the left front corner area, so that is one
less corner in action for the breech
block that we
don't have to machine square.ED

Found a big Spanish Double 10ga.A real
nice, strong gun, with Greener crossbolt
that contacts to hold thrust at same time the
double underlugs make contact. Got to
get more down the line as besides 12GA FH,
I like idea of one especially in my
700HE long case.There is plenty of thickness
at breech to monoblock in heavy barrels. Ed

Will have pics posted of falling block
and temporary stock in few days. The falling block will have recess in the top back for a top tang to add strength to connection to
the stock to absorb recoil. Tang can be short
or long if room for sight is wanted.The
stockbolt will be mounted lower than in original smaller action, to be better aid in
holding recoil.The temp stock is pistol grip
and fits curve of long lever, also use a straight wrist stock and straighten lever.Ed

Here is picture of the first falling block
model of aluminum, with a roughed out
stock to see how it looks. Action is a
rough model. It shoulders nice, and
lever is inlet into pistol grip,
so you can't get banged up
fingers with the big cartridges it is designed
for, like levers that stick down at the
guard.Ed

Ed
That is a thing of beauty.
Congratulations

Thanks Bob. I got question about recoil.
This is modern stock layout, Older styles can be used with
more drop at heel and straight grip or scant grip.
Comb is uphill a 1/4" at back from comb front.So
it won't hit the face. The front of comb can also
be whittled back and more curve added to top of
the grip, if a longer tang is wanted for the
tang mounted ladder sights.Ed

Here is pic of action model with lever open
and the breech block down. Also the action
will have a slot in the rtop rear for a
top tang of whatever length you need.Can even add a long tang for tang sights.

You notice I changed signature line,
just so all know mine is first as
there may be other less stronger
belted 700s. Ed

Info about the toggle link. It is up inside
the breech block, and quite short,and that
allows the overall height of the action to
be relatively compact, for the huge
cases we plan on using.But yet the top
part of the breechblock is solid for
great strength.It will handle bmg,
700HE pressures.The breechblock is at a
7 deg angle and the toggle link with the
lever acts like a binder in going over
center to lock block up against the
cartridge.Ed

Found out some barrel technology info.
A lot of times when shops want to put in
rifling with a button for larger calibers
likr 700 and 12ga the buttons for real slow twists when being used for faster twist
makes a rounded up edge on the rifling and
the rifling is rough. So they have to make a button for faster twist, by changing the
edges. The barrel I got for 12ga real cheap
was that way, and I smoothed the top of
rifling so it had only a slight rounding.
A factor maybe in getting fast velocities with
hardened lead with no leading.Ed.

Here is pic of a double that I will put
barrels in, monoblock style, using the breech
section for the monoblock. This one will be
for 28GA FH. May get another same size for
my 510HE. I will be able to run full pressures
with these.....I am trying to find a bigger,
heavier one to put 12GA FH in. I want
heavier one so as to run pressures like my
Savage as aminimum.Ed.

I was looking at an 8ga single on
GB, that looked heavy enough to put
a barrel in for 12ga or 700HE. They wanted much more than it cost new.It was a real heavy
Spanish single. If I found an extra,
or the 8ga Tonolini double, I might
leave it 8ga, as I could make a few
cases by reworking 20mm Suzy brass,
can be done without adding rim,which would
be super strong cases like our 12ga FH.Ed

On the falling block project I have figured
out that the Larger action machined from
alloys like 4130, in their hardened
state in the block, with long thread that is
in my design will handle 50bmg, 700HE,
4bore, 12gaFH without heat treating with
a 4 to 1 safety ratio in the biggest 4bore
at high pressure. And larger safety ratios
in smaller than 4bore, like over 6 to 1 in
50bmg Thus saving having to
not have any warping, and better cost.
The intermediate action done same will handle
12gaFH, 700NE, 600NE,600 Ok, etc.Ed

Had question about locking RMC cases onto
lead slugs, as they hey don't crimp into the
grooves well as sharp bend works thick
mouth. First I resize tight and slightly bell
mouth.Insert slugs which take a little pressure.Then I use a die with slightly more
taper and swage the mouth into slug, like
the fit you get with bottleneck cases.
Same deal works with our long cases made
from BMG brass.And also loading my
700HE blaster. Should get the 700 barrel
soon for my 3.25 case in the Enfield.Ed

A 3 buck a lb powder put to good use.
Used 150 gr of 7383 surplus in 700He
barrel I have on the big
steel beam for testingwith 850
gr bullet.Use some trimmed
wads to take up space under bullet.
Getting about 1600fps. A plinking
load. Ed

I`m chocked over how big itis, and when i get to the States, i might scroungew up some dollars to buy a cartridge to try in the enourmous rifle.

Are you cloning Wooly Mammoth or Brontosaurus btw??