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Rip; that is the scope that is on my shortest list. I have the SWFA 1-4×24 SS Classic . and the 1-4×24 Vortex Crossfire 2 with V Bright reticle. Imho Phil was far ahead of the curve advocating for the speed and accuracy of a low powered scope on a big bore. I have found that the 1-? Power scopes with a dot or illuminated center are much faster than any irons . including ghost ring and wide shallow V rear sights with bead or post front even with the rifle fitted to me. Yes anyone can throw a rifle up and pull the trigger. But since only hits count I do SOOO much better accuracy wise and faster with a 1 power scope . For out to what ever distance I would be shooting iron sights. The only single situation where I don't use any scope by preference. Is summer time bear protection. In that situation , if I Need to pull a trigger. The target ( bear) will be within 50 feet max . But historically within around 20 feet . With all the rain and rough use. There's no sense beating the he'll out of an optic. And 4 power has proven to be enough for deer and caribou to 400 yards so far. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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CTF, Yep, that was another point of agreement between Finn and Phil: Low power scope is better than any other system. And Phil's tests showed him to be faster and equally as accurate at 5 yards by ignoring all sighting systems completely, except the one between his ears: Instinctive, point and shoot.  Rip ... | |||
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Shucks, I am all out of IMR-3031. I must have lit it off with a match for July 4th celebration last year.  I am gonna have to use BENCHMARK, or IMR-8208-XBR, or H4895, or VARGET. BENCHMARK is closest to IMR-3031, and I would always choose BENCHMARK over IMR-3031, for the Thermo Ballistic Independence ... So many good choices for moderate velocity 500-grainers ... So many good choices for "bloody big holes" through any game animal. Hodgdon Annual Manual data for 2018 is same as it was for 2017, same antiquated CUP instead of PSI. IIRC, the 60,000 PSI SAAMI MAP of the .458 Win.Mag. is somewhere around 53,000 to 54,000 CUP in the old Copper-Crusher Units of Pressure. Recall that the .458 Lott gets to strain along at about 2,500 PSI higher pressure and about 0.3" longer COL to save face, according to SAAMI. Pick AA-2230 powder for the .458 Win.Mag. and keep everything SAAMI spec, and there is not a lot of difference between the two: 40 fps      Whoa! I just noticed that the old 510-grainer is only 0.457" diameter. That will not help with gas blow by in a .458"-minimum groove barrel, where 0.459" groove diameter is perfectly "in-spec" ... but it won't hurt much either. Just one more cause for some slightly lower velocities with that bullet, "back in the day." Rip ... | |||
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[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/fzTKaENm.jpg [/IMG] Ray B, Above has a space in it that does not belong there, it is before the terminal [/IMG] See what happens when I copy it again below and remove the space:  You can surely size it bigger at Imgur so we can better appreciate the glorious details of your art. It is only 214 px wide by 320 px tall! A mere thumbnail! Make it at least 1000 px wide, please. You can do it! :tu2Rip ... | |||
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I tried to get to like 3031 back in the 80 s but just couldn't. I'll try some 335. Never tried that before and I've got some. But 2230 is my mainstay powder for bullets 400 gr and heavier . And H4198 for 300 and 350 he bullets. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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CTF, Yep, IMR-3031 is good for grain-for-grain/equal-weight substitution of cordite in NE loads, using filler, but I would rather use a powder not requiring a filler for the few NE loads I load. I have successfully burnt off my 1980s IMR-3031 too, making room for AA-2230 ... which has sold out at the local emporium, for now. One more post to finish this page and move on to page 51. Rip ... | |||
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Let's review some bear survival tips to transition to page 51:  Continued on page 51. Rip ... | |||
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 Rip ... | |||
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 For some reason adding a narrative prior to adding the photograph caused some issue. | |||
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I've considered getting some checkering files and seeing if I could blend-in the repaired area of the grip with the original pattern. | |||
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 Ya gotta stab in the eyes with a stick or just start singing "The Bear necessities" and hope the Disney gene kicks in.
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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You really should give it a whirl at some sort of texturing of all that beautiful, brown epoxy in the grip area. Rip ... | |||
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boom stick, If you liked that last bear survival tip, supplementary to a .458 Win.Mag., which is the best tip of all, I’ll be posting more. Rip ... | |||
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RIPster, if you really want this thing to go 345 pages +, I think you're going to need to bring in opinions by a certain PH. M. S. would be a hint.  | |||
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If you have a CZ .458 Win.Mag., there is not a whole lot wrong with modifying it to accept .450 Watts brass in a pinch. It will then also be able to fire the shorter-brass case of the .458 Lott, in a pinch. Rip ... | |||
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Todd, Thanks for the tip. I shall take it under advisement, see what we can But the goal of 345 pages has been revised upward to 458, minimum, just like groove diameter in thousandths of an inch for the perfect DGR. I promise I will quit somewhere on page # 458. Rip ... | |||
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458 pages! I'm thinking you'll need to bring in SCI as well!!  | |||
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Look up and be grateful when you reach 104 - - - it is 1 / 4 of 416 !!!! +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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HOws Rip?...always good for a helping hand!! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Atkinson et al, Thanks for your help with The Mission. Yes, even the doubting 416Tanzan. Future material, this is preliminary, partial list, just for starters: Why does Mark Sullivan advise against client use of the .458 Win.Mag.? How has the .458 Win.Mag. SCI Auction Rifle fared in the bidding? Who is famous for use of the .458 Win.Mag. in hunting and control work, and just how great were they? What are some good choices for the second rifle on any safari, since first rifle choice is always best as a .458 Win.Mag.? Is a seven-shooter .458 Win.Mag. really the best choice for time-travel dinosaur hunting? Rip ... | |||
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I believe Mark is on record fully supporting little old grannies shooting the little 458! Or maybe that's the 500NE.  | |||
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The author of Ballistics in Perspective. Mike LaGrange. Iirc. Harry Selby used the 458 after the barrel was shot out of his 416 Rigby. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Several years back I recall reading an article that wasn't written for the hunters, but was general coverage of the game management programs in various African countries. As an aside it noted that in previous years the control agents used expensive rifles because that was all that was available, but with Winchester making the M70 458 Win Mag, virtually every agency in Africa that had need for powerful rifles for their agents, supplied them with 458 Win Mags, most commonly the M70. The author gave no indication that any of the agents or the problem animals had registered any complaints. | |||
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Don't forget to test a 458 Ruger with the long leade. And we still want some nice 400gn GSC tests in all the paces. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Todd, Almost right. MS recommends that any grannies in wheelchairs get to use anything they want for their first shot at the buffalo, all legal calibers, as long as MS can call the shots. That means her first shot, and all of his shots after that. Rip ... | |||
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Yep. Mike Lagrange Harry Selby Wally Johnson Ron Thomson Richard Harland Finn Aagaard Phil Shoemaker Just to name a few that have more than high IQ in common. Rip ... | |||
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That sort of information/articles would aid The Mission greatly. Rip... | |||
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The .458 Ruger Winchester-Throat would crowd the magazine compared to the .458 Win.Mag. One less cartridge and not as slick a feeder. 400-grain GSC HV in the Knik Knocker coming soon ... Rip ... | |||
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Don't forget Ian Gibson........ Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Please forgive my ignorance , but, Who's Ian Gibson One other that my be on the list of 458 users. PHC. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Ian was a highly regarded PH in Zimbabwe. He was featured on many of the Tracks Across Africa shows and "Boddington On ..." series of DVD's that our own forum buddy Dave Fulson produces. Ian had a long list of clients and had a stellar reputation as a PH, working last for Chifuti Safaris. He was killed a couple of years ago by an elephant. | |||
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Met him a while back. Sad but shows DG hunting is just that. For the record I got no problem with the .458 ;D White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Ok. Thank you. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Ian Gibson was famous for his battered, pushfeed M70 .458 Win.Mag., iron sighted, that was usually used with a 500-grain solid inside of 25 yards on charging buffalo and such. I would appreciate any details known about his last elephant hunt, in 2015. If they be known, I doubt the .458 Win.Mag. could be blamed. Rip ... | |||
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Some more .458 Win.Mag. rifles will be needed to stretch this thread out to 458 pages. Ms. Chimera WinCzechster and Ms. Woodelle Whitworth will be vacationing and later on-call. Coming up: Ms. Alderella Ruger, M77 MK II The 3.4" box holds 3 down. Unnamed: Winchester M70, Vintage 1958, .300 H&H donor rifle with a synthetic stock. The 3.6" box might hold 4 down. Unnamed: CZ 550 Magnum .458 Win.Mag. The 3.8" box will hold 6 down. Unnamed: Ruger No.1 with slow twist. No magazine box restrictions, no magazine box! A couple of prodigal daughters who had their .458 Win.Mag. chambers lengthened for .450 Watts/.458 Lott brass might be allowed to play also, since they still have .458 Win.Mag. throats. Rip ... | |||
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And I still have to dig up that stuff on the Barnes Supreme .450 BS and .416 BS. I'll be on vacation for a few days, myself. Rip ... | |||
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That sounds like a good plan ! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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First let me say I have never met the man or hunted with Chifuti safaris either. I've only seen him through videos and on various television shows. But just from what I've read here on AR he was attempting to wave off an elephant that ended up too close to get a shot in before the elephant got him. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Who is famous for use of the .458 Win.Mag. in hunting and control work, and just how great were they? Mike Lagrange Harry Selby Wally Johnson Ron Thomson Richard Harland Finn Aagaard Phil Shoemaker Ian Gibson Paul Grobler Fred Duckworth Pending research on the ten listed above, sainthood is expected for all. Sure hope Phil doesn't get the big head. Rip ... | |||
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