quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
So, the rifle will be a hoped for cure to ADHD. Sounds fair.

Sir,

I resemble that remark.
Mama did say once that long ago, a frazzled babysitter had reported on me as the "busy baby" of the brood,
the one most likely to take a dive off the backdoor steps and land on his head on concrete.

Coffee helps me sleep nowadays.



Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
If you knock her knickers you'll have to get a 416 Ruger :

I don't see the relevance of a 416- In my opinion and by all appearances, the 416, particularly the Rigby is a cartridge with out of proportion powder capacity to bore area. the Rigby needed the large capacity to accommodate the sticks of cordite used as propellant a hundred years ago. However, the development of progressive high intensity powders with burnrates matching the case capcity, bore area, bullet sectional density (resistance) and bore volume has obsoleted such dark ages rounds. Seems to me that if a smaller bore/larger case capacity is the needed therapy for some disorder that a more reasonable step would be to the 404 Jeffery.


this ought to get enough response to get the count to 50.

The Ascent of Phil Shoemaker: Sainthood Assured by his Support of the .458 Winchester Magnum
Part 1:

Ready ... Aim ... Knik!
Sorry, I could not resist.
Shoemaker as counterpoint to Seyfried:

RIFLE 101 Sep-Oct 1985

"Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE"

By: Phil Shoemaker

Part one of a review of this excellent article follows.
I will stretch it out to a second part, of a multi-part series, for THE MISSION.

Finn Aagaard got me started on the .458 Win.Mag. I finally had one by the fall of 1984,
just in time for Missouri Duck and Goose season!
Then, lo and behold, before I even knew who Ross Seyfried was, Phil Shoemaker appeared to me in 1985.
"Rifle 101" how appropriate!
I clipped and filed the article along with Finn's work.
Finn and Phil, African PH and Alaskan PH respectively, and philosophically two peas in a pod.

Phil: "Starting out with a cut-down Winchester Model 70 in .375 H&H, I used it happily until the supply of Nosler bullets dried up."

Rip: I do recall that for a while Nosler quit making the .375/300-grain Partition.

Phil: "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."

Rip: How nice of Phil to mention "thick alders." Alderella appreciates the validation of her name.
Anyway, Phil considered his options and nixed the idea of a double rifle due to many reasons, including:

Phil: "I could just about afford one. Of course, I hadn't the foggiest idea where I might obtain ammunition for such behemoths in Alaska.
I also wondered how I would have fared had I been carrying it instead of my Mauser when I fell in the river at five degrees below zero! In fact, I had just managed to chip and thaw most of the ice from my rifle when I had the aforementioned encounter with the bear."

Rip: So Phil settled on another bolt gun, and most suitable would be one assembled from parts. Parts is parts!
In the early to mid-1980s even parts were scarce compared to what we have today:

Phil: "The process of elimination, as it turned out to be, left only one other big cartridge readily available in this country: the .458 Winchester ...
... In certain circles it has become somewhat in vogue to criticize the .458 ...
... Professional hunter and writer Finn Aagaard claims the .458 has supplanted the whole maze of European cartridges designed for African megafauna ...
... While the .375 H&H is still the backup rifle of choice for most Alaskan professionals,
the few who do use the .458 claim it is a noticeably better bear stopper. This is as expected ... "

Rip: Yep, and better than a .375 H&H is certainly adequate.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
If you knock her knickers you'll have to get a 416 Ruger :

I don't see the relevance of a 416 ... this ought to get enough response to get the count to 50.

Ray B,

Strong work!
Ms. Alderella Ruger, The Knik Knocker, appreciates this defense of her honor.

I am thinking Alderella might make 8.5 pounds dry weight, with barrel bobbed, so about 10 pounds scoped and loaded, close to it.
A little heavier might be better than a little lighter with such a powerful rifle,
a rifle so much more powerful than a .416 Ruger.

Rip ...

quote:

a more reasonable step would be to the 404 Jeffery

How is the gangly, underloaded 404 more reasonable than a Ruger Alaskan in 416 Ruger or Ruger African in 416 Ruger?

(Handloading is not a reasonable fix for the 404, because that would have answered any restraints on the 416 Rigby to begin with.)

But I was specifically talking about the little 416 Ruger. Quite a package, factory loaded with more power and better trajectory than the 404, and really just asking to use the 330gn GSC as a downfield dominator: a tad flatter but less diameter than the 400gnGSC in .458.

It's working. Page 49 coming up next, then 50.

Rip ...

Don't knik until you see the whites of their eyes!

Rip ...

Now that we have the 49ers, Too bad about San Francisco, but as Sir Thomas More said the Richard Rich "for Wales?" updated to "for Santa Clara?"

The Ascent of Phil Shoemaker: Sainthood Assured by his Support of the .458 Winchester Magnum
Part 2:

RIFLE 101 Sep-Oct 1985

"Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE" (continued)

By: Phil Shoemaker

Phil assembled his ideal .458 Win.Mag. Mauser in 1984. Hey! Same year I got my first Four-Five-Eight!
By 1985, when he wrote about it in Rifle #101, it was in service long enough to brag about it.
Phil wrote about the rifle again in Rifle #208, Jul-Aug 2003.
By then, it had performed excellent service for 18 years, and was still going strong.
So was a little 2.5X Leupold:
Phil in 2003: "The Redfield dovetail mounts with the Pilkington quick release lever eventually wore enough to need replacement,
but the little 2.5X compact Leupold scope has taken a lickin' and kept on tickin'."

The rifle is famous as "Ole Ugly."
Interarms Mark X barreled action: Not opened up to H&H length. Factory barrel contour is about like a Douglas #4 sporter contour.
Gloss blue metal finish, rust-proofed with black Rustoleum spray paint.
Brown Precision fiberglass stock, custom fitted and reinforced to his liking, and more spray paint, various colors.
21" barrel.
Lead weight added to forearm for ideal balance and weight.
With receiver sight and a half-pound of ammo on board it was 9 pounds, best I can tell from Phil's writing.
That would make it about 9.5 to 9.75 pounds and still perfectly balanced with the Leupold 2.5X and mounts added to that,
best I can tell.
Under 10 pounds field ready.

Phil's working load in 1985 was 70.0 grains of IMR-3031 with Hornady RNSP yielding 2040 fps in his 21" barrel, best I can tell.
He later added the 500-grain Trophy Bonded "Bear Claw" softpoint to his repertoire with same powder charge.
The 2003 article indicates the TBBC provided a 400-yard one-shot finisher on a 74" bull moose, by holding 4 feet above moose hair:
Client was out of ammo after his three shots at the bull moose had little effect.

There is some more load data in the 2003 article.
That will make for a "Part 3" in this series, to be continued ...

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
Now that we have the 49ers, Too bad about San Francisco, but as Sir Thomas More said the Richard Rich "for Wales?" updated to "for Santa Clara?"

Ray B,

Thanks for furthering THE MISSION.

However, though free speech is of vital importance, constitutionally protected in the USA,
that does not mean that all speech is worth speaking,
nor is all speech protected by law.

For instance, never yell "Knik!" just for the hell of it, in a crowded theater.
But it is perfectly acceptable to yell this just before the dynamite blast in a coal mine: "Knik in the hole!"

Rip ...

The Ascent of Phil Shoemaker: Sainthood Assured by his Support of the .458 Winchester Magnum
Part 3:

RIFLE 208 JUL-AUG 2003

"Beauty and the Beast
A serious look at a serious rifle!"

By: Phil Shoemaker

Ole Ugly the Mauser .458 Win.Mag. made a second, featured appearance in RIFLE magazine.
More load data appears there.

Phil and son Taj were presented with excellent media for terminal ballistics testing, "one summer."
Two dead, 40-foot gray whales washed up on their local beach.

In Phil's 21" barrel:

400-grain Barnes X-Bullet: 80.0 grains of AA-2200 gave 2200 fps
All the rest were about 2100 fps:
450-grain Swift A-Frame: 73.0 grains of IMR-3031
500-grain Hornady RNSP: 73.0 grains of IMR-3031
500-grain Woodleigh WC RNSP: 73.0 grains IMR-3031
500-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw: 73.0 grains IMR-3031

Most notably, the 400-grain Barnes X-Bullet opened as wide as any of the "super expanders"
and penetrated as deep or deeper than any of the above loads,
in 40-foot whale carcass.
(This is much the same as reported by Finn Aagaard using his artificial media.
He thought the 400-grain X-Bullet was most impressive, loaded to +2300 fps.)

Phil stated in 2003: "Recoil is noticeably less with the 400-grain bullets, and performance is still spectacular.
I now primarily use 400-grain X-bullets, as they shoot well in my rifle,
while Taj prefers the slightly faster 400-grain Kodiaks and the 450-grain Swifts.
Both of us, however, still carry a fistful of 500-grain Woodleighs or Trophy Bondeds
just in case we have to wrinkle a wounded bear out of the pucker bush.
Even though our testing doesn't show it, that big, heavy roundnose somehow just seems more comforting."

Rip stated in 2018: A .458/400-grain HV at 2500 fps kicks just about the same comforting way as a 500-grainer at 2150 fps.

Rip ...

I'm not understanding how there were so many Upik or Nupiak around the upper end of Cook Inlet to name Knik. Must be sumthin I don't know. As the bulk of the Interior mainland is Athabaskan. But even after more than 39 years and 8 months, there is still more that I don't know about Alaska than what I do. Especially as I was a Southeastener for more than 25 years.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
If you knock her knickers you'll have to get a 416 Ruger :

I don't see the relevance of a 416 ... this ought to get enough response to get the count to 50.

Ray B,

Strong work!
Ms. Alderella Ruger, The Knik Knocker, appreciates this defense of her honor.

Just so long as it's not a shotgun wedding.

hil: "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."

I have this article also.

Hence. My confusion with Mr Shoemaker's more modern advocacy of the 06 as a bear rifle.

What saved him was he was in nice open alders .
Had he been in spruce and hemlock regen like in Southeast with a pissed off aggressive bear things would probably have ended much worse.
Generally you can see for 15-20 feet in alders. Often farther. In Southeast conifers or berrys it's very commonly 2-5 feet .
That's Spruce King country !

Thank you Ron for posting this. It made my day !

This makes me think the 400 Whelen or similar round is better. Push 400 grain pills at moderate velocities.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
This makes me think the 400 Whelen or similar round is better. Push 400 grain pills at moderate velocities.

Or 330gn at medium-flat velocities (2600fps) and 375 recoil levels in a 416Ruger. Yes, the idea is appealing.

How fast will the 416 Ruger push these?

https://cuttingedgebullets.com...0gr-flat-base-raptor

Other than obliterating a small to medium size animal. I see absolutely no logical use for that bullet.
They might be just the ticket on something like a rabid dog or wolf or something. Otherwise whatever they hit would turn into a huge red mist shower.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Other than obliterating a small to medium size animal. I see absolutely no logical use for that bullet.
They might be just the ticket on something like a rabid dog or wolf or something. Otherwise whatever they hit would turn into a huge red mist shower.

Just what I was thinking. Weird little bullet.

Great sig line there CTF, but you gotta add the "P" on the front of "hil" and a "Shoemaker" after that would be nice.

Rip ...

Here is the front-of-box reinforcement with Devcon:

It all fits together really nicely, the box just drops out, great fit.
The rifle practically reassembles itself if you turn your back on the parts.
2.5-pound, safe trigger. Steel floor plate and trigger guard latch tight, not too easy to open.
Parts is parts, but the whole is sometimes greater than the sum of its parts.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
How fast will the 416 Ruger push these?

https://cuttingedgebullets.com...0gr-flat-base-raptor

Boomy--
you could get 3300fps without pushing things. Assuming the tip weighs 6 grains, that 186gn pellet would have 4500ft#. It would lose energy pretty fast and at 300 yards would be down to about 1870 ft#, dropping -6" from a 1.9" sight-in at 100 yards.

The energy of the pellet stays above 2500ft# out to 200 yards, so the question is: would you shoot a buffalo with it? Where is Michael when we need him? would the little pellet still have the needed momentum for deep-enough penetration?

Recoil would be nice, down around a 300 mag level.

I find it kind of fascinating that the .458's development history prior to Winchester stepping in and making it their mainline Africa caliber was actually Alaska. I've never owned one so I have zero experience with it but as an in your face caliber for some of Alaskan close range conditions it makes sense, especially as a guides rifle.

Regarding the use of the old '06, Frank Glaser apparently thought it entirely adequate on interior grizzly's and he was a huge gun nut who bought and used the latest as soon as it came out from what I've read.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

That's kind of a gutsy fill. Glad you didn't try Acraglass.

How did you set it up and was it an easy cleanup?

I notice that you used a new box and not a dimpled, re-straightened one. Dimples could impede an easy slip-out.

I haven't been paying attention to Rugers, but I heard that they had gotten away from the diagonal front screw. the photo seems to show the diagonal type. there are several possible reasons, so rather than speculate, I'll just let those that know, provide up-to date info on the front screw arrangement.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Other than obliterating a small to medium size animal. I see absolutely no logical use for that bullet.
They might be just the ticket on something like a rabid dog or wolf or something. Otherwise whatever they hit would turn into a huge red mist shower.

Just what I was thinking. Weird little bullet.

Great sig line there CTF, but you gotta add the "P" on the front of "hil" and a "Shoemaker" after that would be nice.

Rip ...

Yes Sir .

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
I haven't been paying attention to Rugers, but I heard that they had gotten away from the diagonal front screw. the photo seems to show the diagonal type. there are several possible reasons, so rather than speculate, I'll just let those that know, provide up-to date info on the front screw arrangement.

The American Rifle series is nothing like a real Ruger bolt action. They don't have the angled front screw.
But they seem to sell like hotcakes. Which is all the share holders want.
Real Ruger bolt rifles have the angled front action screw. It's one of the things that make a Ruger, a Ruger !

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
I haven't been paying attention to Rugers, but I heard that they had gotten away from the diagonal front screw. the photo seems to show the diagonal type. there are several possible reasons, so rather than speculate, I'll just let those that know, provide up-to date info on the front screw arrangement.

The Hawkeye has a diagonal screw and is still the bread-and-butter Ruger. However, Ruger makes an entry level hunting rifle, Ruger American, that appears to use a Tikka-esque set-up. The recoil lug is not a part of the action but fitted to the stock. I would like to try one, I just can't find the time or opportunity.

Here is the Rugged American insert lug:

Actually , I think the American Rifle has overtaken the M77 s in sales.
They are inexpensive to make and sell. And they tend to be accurate. Iirc our own RIP forayed into the realms of modern push feed Rugers. In 6.5 Creedmoor. I myself haven't gone there. And have no intention to. Ruger quit making one of my most favorite rifles. The M77 Mk2 Hawkeye Stainless in 338 Win mag. They do make other M77 s in 338 WM like Ray's much loved African . and Alf's cantankerous 338 Guide Gun. Both of which are very nice. Tho I don't know if Alf has got his shooting as accurately as he would like. I would be tickled pink if Ruger would come out with the FTW model in 338 Winchester. But they probably won't due to it crowding into the sales of the 375 Ruger. In the FTW .
That's the only reason I bought a Kimber Montana in 338.
I would have preferred to not have a bolt rifle that is not a Ruger M77 Mk2 Stainless.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
That's kind of a gutsy fill. Glad you didn't try Acraglass.
Rusty McGee (roughone) is the magician with epoxy.
How did you set it up and was it an easy cleanup?
Wizardry.
I notice that you used a new box and not a dimpled, re-straightened one. Dimples could impede an easy slip-out.

True dat!
Dimpled box fronts cannot possibly feed as well as smooth ones. Dimpled box fronts are not confidence builders.
They detract from overall "ability to hit" with a rifle, that most important summary quality of a rifle.
Thus spake Ross Seyfried.
Actually I first asked Rusty to solder on a steel plate on the outside of the box front.
He suggested the above, since the box front so closely abutts the metallic magazine well of the HS Precision stock.
I think it turned out well. Magazine well, magazine wise.

Rip ...

Ray B,
Cold Trigger Finger and 416Tanzan gave straight poop on the Ruger American Rifle (RAR).
I have 6.5 Creedmoor RAR Predator version, .308 WCF RAR standard version, and the 6.5 Creedmoor Ruger Precision Rifle (RPR).

The RPR is just a RAR in wolf's clothing, with a 5R-rifled barrel, 1:8" twist, 24" length, and a +$1000 price tag.

The sub-$400 RAR Predator, in sheep's clothing, with standard 6-groove rifling, 1:8" twist, 22" length shoots just as accurately as the RPR.

They both share the same relatively heavy muzzle diameter (0.750") and muzzle threading for thread protector or suppressor.

Both RAR and RPR with Hornady, factory, match ammo, put 3 shots into about 0.3 MOA at 100 yards, first time out of box.

A friend bought a standard version RAR .308 WCF on my recommendation for his "first rifle" for about $300.
We took it to the range after I mounted a Nikon M-308 scope on it for him.
Dang! First lesson he was shooting 0.5 MOA for 3 shots after zeroing at 100 yards, with Federal factory ammo and 150-grain "deer bullets."

Nothing wrong with the RAR, if you can live with some plastic that you are not used to seeing in some places on a rifle.
Acceptability/sales is facilitated by low pricing.
That new bedding system is cheaper to make and stand behind.

The 45-degree-angled front action screw of the original M77 lives on in M77 Mark II, and M77 Hawkeye.
It was also used on the discontinued Ruger M77 RSM, "Ruger Safari Magnum," and accuracy with those rifles was excellent.

Nothing wrong with that Ruger front action screw.
They are excellent for accuracy.
If there is any problem with it, then it only means the stock was weak and needed replacement or fixing with a 45-degree pillar or bedding block.

Hogue rubber stocks are a good source of pillars for installation in walnut and laminate Ruger "M77-Whichever" stocks.
Farts is farts, but, parts is parts, and sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Rip ...

Alderella is still hardening, got her front sling swivel stud moved to front tip of stock, and a filler screw for the forend hole where the old one was.
Rain and other good works have been detracting from break-in.
Never fear, THE MISSION shall continue.

I will save the Hornady DGS factory loads for chronographing after break-in with ye olde RNSP handloads.
I am a cheapskate and I do not want to break her in with steel jackets.
Phil Shoemakers original olde service load for "Olde Ugly" will do nicely for break-in, starter load: 70.0 grains of IMR-3031 with 500-grainers.
But of course I will work up to that from about 5% below so as not to be rude.

Rip ...

I poked a 1/8" drill bit into the tip of the HS Precision stock at the desired angle relative to the bore line, by eyeball.
The drill bit poked out into the barrel channel.
I drilled a bigger (3/16") hole at the poke hole and found that the bedding block was hit by the drill.
From centerline of barrel channel, I drilled through the metal to make room for the Uncle Mike's sling stud at the end of its reach.
Then I hogged and wobbled the drill bit tip enough to make room to easily pack J-B Weld epoxy into the hole.
The hole into the forend tip was then enlarged enough (3/16" bit) to insert the sling stud.
Everything was coated and packed with J-B Weld and held in place with masking tape and black electrician's tape in the barrel channel.
After hardening the barrel channel was touched up with some sanding of the J-B Weld.
So, this sling stud is epoxied to the bedding block:




If you look closely at the barrel, there is a sort of tiger-stripe sanding pattern on the barrel.
That is how it came from Shilen.
No finishing touches have been administered to the rifle.
The barrel has not been stamped or engraved yet.
I am contemplating new colors for both stainless metal and grey stock.
My first thought is Rustoleum matte black for the metal, and kaleidoscope-crayola-camoflage for the stock, like Olde Ugly.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Regarding the use of the old '06, Frank Glaser apparently thought it entirely adequate on interior grizzly's and he was a huge gun nut who bought and used the latest as soon as it came out from what I've read.

Cougarz,

Thanks for that.



https://www.amazon.com/Alaskas...ntures/dp/1575100479

https://alaskanroadhouses.word...om/tag/frank-glaser/


For three months in 1937 the Black Rapids Glacier made national news by advancing across the valley at the rate of a mile a month, winning the nickname the “galloping glacier.”

1938-1939 was the time James Watts was first knocking around in Alaska. Maybe the Galloping Glacier was a draw for him.

Frank Glaser takes us back to Black Rapids Roadhouse. He owned it for a time in the 1920s, right near where James Watts was inspired to want more gun in summer 1939 ...

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
I find it kind of fascinating that the .458's development history prior to Winchester stepping in and making it their mainline Africa caliber was actually Alaska. I've never owned one so I have zero experience with it but as an in your face caliber for some of Alaskan close range conditions it makes sense, especially as a guides rifle.

Regarding the use of the old '06, Frank Glaser apparently thought it entirely adequate on interior grizzly's and he was a huge gun nut who bought and used the latest as soon as it came out from what I've read.

It would need to be known where he guided and how he handled things. Distances to target , whether skulls were scored . What was considered the normal amount of times a bear had to be shot before it stopped moving. Whether he used dogs to go find the bear , ect.ect.
All I can go by Is my own experience and that of a bout a dozen guides I've known. Most of which are master guides. And a bunch more that I've read. When Ben Forbes and Wayne Short told me about wounded bears pushing them out into salt water because their 06 s wouldn't stop the bear. I just kinda take what they say as the truth. And trust it more than someone I've never met.
Considering those are a very experienced guides words in my quote.

quote:

My first thought is Rustoleum matte black for the metal, and kaleidoscope-crayola-camoflage for the stock, like Olde Ugly.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
tu2

I have tested Rustoleum against Cerakote. The new Cerakote is two orders of magnitude better than the Rust Oleum.
There is a guy on E-bay who paints stock with two part epoxy paint in your choice of color, followed by a spider web over that, also in your choice of color.
You could have the metal work done in "sniper gray, and leave the stock alone. That would blend in anywhere.
Turquoise and whatever on the stick would certainly stand out, as would "Sig Pink" on the metal.