quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I find it amazing how real pros like Brian Herne and professional cullers like Richard Harland and Mike LaGrange, who have killed thousands upon thousands of elephant, prefer the 458 Win while it gets bashed by "experts" on forums.

Even Harry Selby bought a 458 after he sold his 416 Rigby !

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I also liked Finn's comment that a 500 grain Bullet traveling at 2000 fps left a big, bloody hole through anything it hit!

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:


It takes near 5,000 posts to become an expert - I think I read that on the interwebz... I'm not there yet... :-(

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Brian Herne had a 458 made that held 6 down plus one in the chamber. Allison and Carey of Portland did the work. I'd love to see how they did that as Brian specified it was not a drop-floor magazine, but was widened.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I find it amazing how real pros like Brian Herne and professional cullers like Richard Harland and Mike LaGrange, who have killed thousands upon thousands of elephant, prefer the 458 Win while it gets bashed by "experts" on forums.

Even Harry Selby bought a 458 after he sold his 416 Rigby !

It takes near 5,000 posts to become an expert - I think I read that on the interwebz... I'm not there yet... :-(

And i do believe Harry used the 458 only while the 416 was being re-barreled, which took quite a while. He sold the 416 about the time he was retiring so I don't think he used it much (if any) past that. Still, it did its job while he used it!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I find it amazing how real pros like Brian Herne and professional cullers like Richard Harland and Mike LaGrange, who have killed thousands upon thousands of elephant, prefer the 458 Win while it gets bashed by "experts" on forums.

Even Harry Selby bought a 458 after he sold his 416 Rigby !

Saeed has probably shot more buffalo than the rest of the forum combined. His 375/404 Improved is a 375 RUM with backed off loads.
Also, Saeed's cartridge has a non-rebated rim, unlike the .375 RUM.
Yet the 375 RUM is a real no no ... on AR.
Yep!

However, the 416 Rigby is great because it gets the 2400 with less pressure than the 416 Remington and is not a belted case. On that logic the 375 RUM should be the preferred choice over the 375 H&H.
Only if we forget about several other neglected factors, including ammunition availability in a pinch.
But for reloading and playing around (probably 99% of big use) calibres like the 450 Ackley are better than the 458 Winchester.

That is total bovine dung! The .458 WinMag is much more fun to handload for and play with.
I have proven that in spades, and will continue to do that for many more pages here.


Also it does the 2100 f/s with 500 grain bullets while in cruising mode and with lots of powders.

More cattle coprolalia, implying that the .458 cannot do that!
The .458 WinMag can move 500-grainers at 2100 fps with many different powders, and quite low pressures.
There is just too little difference here to justify any argument against the .458 WinMag.

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
Looking at the Westley Richards 458, what are those 'wings' roughly where the thumb cut is. Could somebody please explain.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
https://s19.postimg.org/i1xjo5xhf/DSC00538.jpg
This job alone made me a 458 believer! A hunter shot this fellow in the hump and kneecap giving me a follow up in the thickest crap around. My wife handling our Karelian led me straight to him after about 1/2 mile blood trailing for a potential charge and dispatch almost within spitting distance. 458WM w/ 500 Hornady RN@ 2050.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of faith one places on how to sky dive based on the facts driveled forth by an online authority that has never actually stepped outside the plane.

It's no secret that Phil and I have been friends for quite some time. There is also no doubt that if Phil told me I'd be just fine hunting bears with him if the only rifle I had to kill a Brown Bear was a 30-06. We would likely suggest a bullet to use and that it was up to me to arrive with that bullet and be damn sure as to where that bullet would be directed.

I have never seen a Brown Bear but I'm also not stupid and would pay damn good attention to any facts given as Phil is an expert, a real one, not a wanna-be sitting above a worn out key board.

The same things applies to the lowly 458 Win. There are more than a few guys that have filled a couple of long train car loads using the std 458.

You don't like or want to use a 458, no problem, don't. But to continue this ridicules rant that it's a sorry caliber is pretty senseless.

So you used in once in Zim and had to shoot your Ele or Buff 8 times. Until you've killed a hundred Buffalo or Ele's with it you're an amateur. You may have an opinion but your still very new on the street. Only a very few of us are ever going to be able to afford to due a lot of regimented testing for true data samples.

Will somebody please tell Saeed he's under gunned because I'm tired of getting all those great vids from Tanzania. Using that 375/404 is no doubt going to get him killed 4 or 5 lifetimes from now.

There is stuff I read on this site repeatedly that just makes me scratch my bald head and chuckle.

But that's just me.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Brian Herne had a 458 made that held 6 down plus one in the chamber. Allison and Carey of Portland did the work. I'd love to see how they did that as Brian specified it was not a drop-floor magazine, but was widened.

BaxterB,

The old Pre-'64 WinM70 box was wider, and held 4 down in .375 H&H compared to only 3 down with the later M70 Classic.
If they got 6 in the box without a drop belly stock or coffin floorplate,
they must have been doing a trapezoidal widening, wider at bottom of magazine, as well as wider at top too.
But that would probably require a wider than normal floorplate and probably some degree of "pocket plate" if not a full-blown "coffin."

We can do it with a CZ 550 Magnum and just a little, tiny, bit deeper floorplate from Wisner.



A 6+1 seven-shooter in .458 WinMag Longclaw 3.8" is in the works, awaiting the removal of its .458 Lott barrel.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own sheepishness.
Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I find it amazing how real pros like Brian Herne and professional cullers like Richard Harland and Mike LaGrange, who have killed thousands upon thousands of elephant, prefer the 458 Win while it gets bashed by "experts" on forums.

Even Harry Selby bought a 458 after he sold his 416 Rigby !

It takes near 5,000 posts to become an expert - I think I read that on the interwebz... I'm not there yet... :-(

And i do believe Harry used the 458 only while the 416 was being re-barreled, which took quite a while. He sold the 416 about the time he was retiring so I don't think he used it much (if any) past that. Still, it did its job while he used it!

After he got the bill from Rigby for re-barreling that standard M98 .416 Rigby, he was happy to continue using that pushfeed M70 .458 WinMag,
lest he need another Rigby barrel before he could sell that museum piece.
His choice of cartridge, .458 WinMag, as the alternative, speaks volumes of prose.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own sheepishness.
Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
BaxterB,

OK, it was a joke on my part about Harry restoring his Rigby just so he could sell it for its provenance, at an even better price.
Wasn't funny, eh?

A seven-shooter standard M98 Mauser .458 WinMag:
I have an FN Mauser in a standard, non-drop-belly stock, but with drop-belly bottom metal sticking out of the bottom ... like Saeed does with his .375/404 Jeffery Dakota M76.

Yes, the .458 WinMag is bad to the bone.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own sheepishness.
Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own sheepishness.
Rip

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I have never made a single Standard 458 Win Mag. in 35 plus years but only due to the fact that no one has ever asked for one.

I have made up many dozen Lott's. Most have been Legends using the current Post 64 claw extractor M-70. Longer than the Pre-64 it allows you to utilize that extra length to your advantage for 3.600 length cartridges if you were interested in the full-monty.

Most settled on 2150fps to 2175fps and stayed right there as it made 2nd and 3rd shot recovery much easier if required and generated less recoil which in turn allowed them to practice more often with the rifle before a hunt.

I've got nothing at all against the Std 458

Simple as that.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I have never made a single Standard 458 Win Mag. in 35 plus years but only due to the fact that no one has ever asked for one.

I have made up many dozen Lott's. Most have been Legends using the current Post 64 claw extractor M-70. Longer than the Pre-64 it allows you to utilize that extra length to your advantage for 3.600 length cartridges if you were interested in the full-monty.

Most settled on 2150fps to 2175fps and stayed right there as it made 2nd and 3rd shot recovery much easier if required and generated less recoil which in turn allowed them to practice more often with the rifle before a hunt.

I've got nothing at all against the Std 458

Simple as that.

That 2150 to 2175 will be easier to get with the Lott.

If you were making a Legend for yourself would you pick the 458 Win or 458 Lott?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Mike,

I answered .458 WinMag, of course,

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
if you wanted to crimp ammo what tool would use to form a crimping groove on bullets.

The CH4D CanTool, canneluring tool is perfect.

If you mostly used ammo at standard 458 Win length you run risk of double feed with the 3.6" magazine box.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

I fear not a double-feed risk even with 3.4" ammo in a 3.8" box.
Of course I would generally be using Long-COL ammo in my Longclaw rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

I fear not a double-feed risk even with 3.4" ammo in a 3.8" box.
Of course I would generally be using Long-COL ammo in my Longclaw rifles.

Yes but are seeking perfection so you get a Legend.

Maybe you could get D'Arcy to make an extra long ejector for your 3.6" magazine 458 Winchester, just to be sure.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Page 25 coming up..

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

A Saint Finn Aagaard quote, referenced by Phil Shoemaker on the previous page,
regarding the bleating of American sheep about .458 WinMag factory ammo failures:

I experienced none. Never a misfire, squib load, failure to feed attributable to the cartriridge, or any such horror. It always did exactly what one would expect a 500 gr. .458 cal. bullet of .341 sectional density to do when propelled at 2000 fps---it put a bloody big hole in anything and penetrated very well, at least as well as the .375 H&H and probably slightly better.
This was with the full-metal-jacket Winchester "solid" ... I always used solids on buffalo, taking care not to hit a second animal should the bullet exit the intended quarry.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
RIP,, My bag of bullets from game only has 1 458, a 450 Woodleigh that raked a smallish bear @ about 150yds ...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
Still a fair way behind the 400 Whelen thread.