Bob,
Buy a donkey for the load data, even the 9.3x62mm Mauser stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
I'll mention in passing that I've developed two distinct bullet weight loads in my Tikka 9.3 x 62 that hit into the same group at 100 yards. It wasn't planned but just happened that way. They have about the same MV but the powders are distinct.

The 232gr Oryx: 63 grs RL-15 = about 2450 fps avg/ 5 into 1" at 100 yds. (Hornady brass + WLRM primers.

The 320gr Woodleigh: 66 grs RL-17 = about 2450fps avg and misses the 232gr Oryx group by about 1" (Hornady brass + WLRM primers.

That's an aside from the current topic, but it sorta serves as an example of what we might like to see in the .458 WIN.
Bob
www.bigborefan.wordpress.com

The 232-grainer is 72.5% of the 320-grainer weight.
Maybe we should forget the constant powder charge and strive to get the velocity titrated to equal for the light and heavy,
and expect better DBR that way ?

As for the rest of the news you bring,

That is double-strange, on the brass and your blog.
Both addresses to your blog are still working for me.
Both show Part 4 of Bear Hunting dated yesterday ...

I have considered Hornady brass to be faultless in my experience.
Maybe an "inclusion body" of bad stuff in one piece of brass got through in the raw materials ?
As Forrest Gump said: "It happens."
Let us know if you find anything from reporting to Hornady, please.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Hi RIP

Side question - hopefully its not too off topic. I notice a lot of the rifles you post on this and other big bore threads have multiple sets of scope rings. Is this because you have actually had lots of trouble with scopes moving on these big bores? Or is it like the Irishman who wore three condoms - to be sure, to be sure, to be sure?

Just wondering since I see very few others taking this approach, and have never experienced a scope on a big bore move myself. Though granted I have not shot as many as you.

Bwana 500,

I first learned of the 3- and 4-ring circus scope mounting approaches from the machinations of J. D. Jones.
I actually have very few of them, but love to show them off whenever I can, just keepin'up with the Joneses.
I have had the occasional scope slippage in rings loosened by recoil. Best check ring screws at least every 20 rounds.
Never when I use silicone adhesive inside the rings of 2-ring circuses.
Definitely sufficient.
I would never use Loc-Tite on ring screws.

But I am largely of Irish extraction with lesser amounts of English, Spanish, and Cherokee in the family tree,
which took root in Jamestown, Virginia in 1607,
thanks to an Irish, Puritan named Johan Berry.
The English and Spanish I blame on my Mother's side of the family.
The Cherokee sneaked into my Father's wood pile.

So, probably mostly it is just like an Irishman wearing three condoms.
I am an Irish Twin, conceived 6 weeks after the firstborn son, born in the same calendar year as "Junior" so surely I am an ACCIDENT.
And "Junior" is the physically-larger-than-me sissy (I am the runt of the family) whom I could always whip and outsmart, my Irish Twin !

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_500:
Hi RIP

Side question - hopefully its not too off topic. I notice a lot of the rifles you post on this and other big bore threads have multiple sets of scope rings. Is this because you have actually had lots of trouble with scopes moving on these big bores? Or is it like the Irishman who wore three condoms - to be sure, to be sure, to be sure?

Just wondering since I see very few others taking this approach, and have never experienced a scope on a big bore move myself. Though granted I have not shot as many as you.

If you have very accurate big bores and test them frequently on paper you will have scope problems.

Actually there are plenty of scopes out there, especilly variables, that have problems even on 270s etc nut the rifle is not accurate enouh or test enough. Oftena scp will cause a shoy or two be thrown out of group but might not be noticed as the small flyers are sort of absorbed in the rifle's grouping.

Many many years ago I did some testing of scopes for Tasco Australia, not just Tasco scopes. The scopes were first mounted on a 6mm/06 accuracy type rifle to test. Then onto a 416 Wby with bag of lead shot behind it and fired pelnty pf times and then back on the 6mm/06. This was done over a few weekends at the range and quite a fww shooters asked could I test their scope on the 6mm/06 (but not the 416 Wby ). As epected quite a few scopes had problems but they worked OK on the rifles they were on. On that 6mm/06 if the scope meant a shot went 1/2" out then it showed up. With quite a few of the scopes there would be a group of 3 in a ragged hole and two shots out 3/4".

My view is that the 375 is at a threshold. That is assuming a very accurate rifle that will be fred a lot and tested a lot on paper.

And by the way, as my last name suggests, I am 100% Irish background and on both sides of family. Actually both my sides are identical. Both grandfathers migrated rom ireland and both grandmothers were born in Australia to Irish immigrants.

Mike,
My "Royalist" English-Spanish maternal ancestors fled to Ireland and France when King Charles I was beheaded.
So I am all Irish except for that one Cherokee 6 generations back whose daughter married an Irish-Kentuckian.
I am 1/64 Cherokee, 63/64 Irish, more Native American than Elizabeth Warren.
High cheek bones my ass ! Endymion Porter had high cheekbones, all English !

What does this have to do with the .458 WinM.?
No doubt my maternal umpteenth-great-grandpa was a great aficionado of the .45-caliber rabbit arquebus,
as well as Ambassador to Spain, Gentleman to the Bedchamber of King Charles I, and patron of the arts.
He brought a Spanish wife back to England, but he looked a lot like my maternal Aunt Christine:



The legendary infatuation continued in Ireland where his offspring patronized the nascent Irish gun trade that would eventually produce John Rigby of Dublin,
then grandson John Rigby of London,
then the .450 Rigby Special Double Rifle of November 1897,
aka eventually the .450 NE,
the basis for the .458 Winchester Magnum ballistics.
My paternal Irish had been in Virginia long before King Charles I was beheaded, eventually moving on to Kentucky with their .45-caliber flintlocks,
which were the inspiration for the British "Express" rifles leading to the "Nitro Express" also.
Thank the Irish for the .458 Winchester Magnum !

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Mike and Ron, that reveals a lot of mystery

My paternal and maternal ancestry is English - Scotch, and they tell me there's some Royal blood from that woodpile also

Bob
www.bigborefan.wordpress.com

Bob,
That's OK, the Scots spoke Gaelic like the Irish,
all of them just Viking love children,
cut from the same cloth.
My Wife's Father, the United Methodist Preacher, claimed to be of Scottish heritage, and loved to joke about the Scots being penny-pinchers.

For THE MISSION, copied from Saeed's thread on bullet diameter effects on accuracy and velocity:

quote:

Funny thing about the SAAMI .300 WinM., it has a wide-based, leade-only throat like on the SAAMI .458 WinM., only not so acute a leade angle.

.300 WinM.: 0.3150" diameter start, 1*26'37" leade hemi-angle.
Maximum bullet: 0.3090"-0.0030"
Minimum bore: .300"
Minimum groove: .308"
Twist: 10"

.458 WinM.: 0.4690" diameter start, 0*29'30" leade hemi-angle.
Maximum bullet: 0.4590"-0.0030"
Minimum bore: .450"
Minimum groove: .458"
Twist: 14"

Both are capable of remarkable accuracy,
much to the chagrin of Art Alphin.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/1871086162

Thank the Irish for the .458 Winchester Magnum !

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

RIP;

My favorite sub-medium cartridge is the .300 Win Mag. I've owned a bunch and they all shot sub-MOA with good loads. In fact, 1/2 MOA was common for 3 at 100 yds. The 24" Savage would come within a few fps of what Nosler published for their 180s and 200s using the same loads of RL-22.

The 26" Browning gave superb accuracy with higher MVs than the Savage. In all I owned eight in .300 WM over time starting with an M70 (that was heavier than it needed to be).

A matched pair for everything from coyote to elephant might be the .300 and .458 Winchester Magnums. That was the thinking of a close friend who went to Kenya in 1960 as an educator at the Rift Valley Academy. He spent (with wife and family) his entire career there, returning to New Brunswick, Canada, about 2000. He became a resident BG hunter in Kenya until things were shut down in 1977. The .300 was used on plains game and the .458 on DG, including eles and Cape buff. Factory ammo only with no complaints over the store bought .458 ammo (both softs and solids).

For THE MISSION,

Bob
www.bigborefan.wordpress.com (And by the way RIP, thanks for telling me that both addresses work. Not sure yet why www.bigbores.ca doesn't work for me. My son will fix that when he returns from a week's vacation.)

Okay, since its become mandatory to post our origins to continue posting, I will list what the DNA people tell me I have in me:



Was not a big surprise when this came out, considering my mother and grandmother were born in Glasgow. My father's grandfather was a Norwegian whaling ship captain, so I guess thats where the 4% non-Briton comes from.

Anyhow, back to our regularly scheduled content. Or not. I'm not sure.

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
RIP;

My favorite sub-medium cartridge is the .300 Win Mag. I've owned a bunch and they all shot sub-MOA with good loads.

I have had more different rifles (leaving out rebarrels) in 270, 300 Wichester and 375 than any other. Plenty of 300 Wby but not as many as the other three.

I have had plenty of bench style rifles in bith 270 and 300 Winchester and agree with you 100% on the 300 Winchester. In those accuracy type rifles accuray has been tad better than the 270 or 7mm Remington.

There used to be a member here, Allen Day who passed on several years ago and on an African trip he had problems with his 458 rifle and shot histwo buffalo with 180 grain Fail Safe in the 300 Winchester and for his two fastes kills. Which I guess just proves again that two kills does not mean much.

In 26" barrel and loaded to when ccuracy falls of and 180 grain bullets I would put the 300 Wby at 100-120 f.s faster than the 300 Win, the 300 RUM adds another 100 f.s and the 30/378 another 100 f/s. About 3125, 3250-3280, 3350 and 3450 f/s.

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
RIP;

My favorite sub-medium cartridge is the .300 Win Mag ...

A matched pair for everything from coyote to elephant might be the .300 and .458 Winchester Magnums.

For THE MISSION,

Bob
www.bigborefan.wordpress.com

I have only owned a few .300 WinM. rifles, but now only this one remains, which I could never get rid of, nor change a "World Class" thing about her:





The 9#2-oz-scoped .300 WinM. is a mate to 9#4-oz-scoped .458 WinM. Alderella when she wears her Zytel stock to match, and ~half-pound lighter scope&rings:



I never named the .300 WinM., but she deserves a name too, which will require some thought ...
Got it ! "Bambi" is her name.
She has been a great deer rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_500:
Okay, since its become mandatory to post our origins to continue posting, I will list what the DNA people tell me I have in me:

Not mandatory, just good for the mileage of THE MISSION.
Buy a donkey to Bwana_500.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Bwana 500,

I first learned of the 3- and 4-ring circus scope mounting approaches from the machinations of J. D. Jones.
I actually have very few of them, but love to show them off whenever I can, just keepin'up with the Joneses.
I have had the occasional scope slippage in rings loosened by recoil. Best check ring screws at least every 20 rounds.
Never when I use silicone adhesive inside the rings of 2-ring circuses.
Definitely sufficient.
I would never use Loc-Tite on ring screws.

But I am largely of Irish extraction with lesser amounts of English, Spanish, and Cherokee in the family tree,
which took root in Jamestown, Virginia in 1607,
thanks to an Irish, Puritan named Johan Berry.
The English and Spanish I blame on my Mother's side of the family.
The Cherokee sneaked into my Father's wood pile.

So, probably mostly it is just like an Irishman wearing three condoms.
I am an Irish Twin, conceived 6 weeks after the firstborn son, born in the same calendar year as "Junior" so surely I am an ACCIDENT.
And "Junior" is the physically-larger-than-me sissy (I am the runt of the family) whom I could always whip and outsmart, my Irish Twin !

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

I like the idea of a little silicone in the rings. A couple of weeks ago my .50 BMG suddenly stopped grouping because the scope base screws worked themselves loose, and I was getting 1/2 moa high and 18 moa wide dispersion at 100 (had to get close to even see what was going on). That base now has JB Weld under it, and blue LockTite on the screws!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
RIP;

My favorite sub-medium cartridge is the .300 Win Mag. I've owned a bunch and they all shot sub-MOA with good loads.

I have had more different rifles (leaving out rebarrels) in 270, 300 Winchester and 375 than any other. Plenty of 300 Wby but not as many as the other three.

I have had plenty of bench style rifles in both 270 and 300 Winchester and agree with you 100% on the 300 Winchester. In those accuracy type rifles accuracy has been a tad better than the 270 or 7mm Remington ...

Well, that makes three of us who agree that there are no accuracy flies on the throat of the .300 WinM.
The SAAMI .300 WinM. has seen plenty of military service as a sniper rifle too.
That .458 WinM. throat worked so well that Winchester patterned the .300 WinM. throat similarly.

quote:

Originally posted by The Maz:
I like the idea of a little silicone in the rings. A couple of weeks ago my .50 BMG suddenly stopped grouping because the scope base screws worked themselves loose, and I was getting 1/2 moa high and 18 moa wide dispersion at 100 (had to get close to even see what was going on). That base now has JB Weld under it, and blue LockTite on the screws!

Ross Seyfried used to recommend 3M Liquid Electrician's Tape.
I found clear or black silicone adhesive works wonders.
So, you did a fancy job with those .50BMG bases, eh ?
I skip the Blue LocTite and just use J-B Weld on everything,
counting on needing a torch to loosen my screws.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
RIP;

My favorite sub-medium cartridge is the .300 Win Mag ...

A matched pair for everything from coyote to elephant might be the .300 and .458 Winchester Magnums.

For THE MISSION,

Bob
www.bigborefan.wordpress.com

I have only owned a few .300 WinM. rifles, but now only this one remains, which I could never get rid of, nor change a "World Class" thing about her:





The 9#2-oz-scoped .300 WinM. is a mate to 9#4-oz-scoped .458 WinM. Alderella when she wears her Zytel stock to match, and ~half-pound lighter scope&rings:



I never named the .300 WinM., but she deserves a name too, which will require some thought ...
Got it ! "Bambi" is her name.
She has been a great deer rifle.

One of my .300 WINs was exactly like yours. I shot a very nice buck with it -- at 35 YARDS! He was coming up a ridge toward me. I could hear him crunching freshly fallen snow covered dry leaves beneath, before he appeared through the bush just below me. The 180gr Hornady SP took him between neck and shoulder and he just collapsed with antlers hanging up in a 14" thick maple.

It took a while to find the bullet hole in the winter fur and hide as no blood was evident. The bullet never made exit. I dragged him into an opening in the bush, dropped the rifle in the snow, gutted the buck, pulled it up under some low hanging branches of a fur tree, picked my rifle out of the snow, brushed it off and went to find my partner to get it out. When we returned the ravens had cleaned up the gut pile, walked up to the deer under the branches and never touched it.

A good .300 firing those Hornadys at a tad over 3000 fps.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Bob,
Bambi salutes her twin, you never should have let her get away from you.

https://www.nmlra.org/news/Cvaparamountpro_SHOT2020



There is something new for 2020: A muzzleloader from CVA in .45-cal and .50-cal that was built to use Blackhorn 209, 105-gr weighed charge,
with a 280-gr "Power Belt" bullet at 2400 fps MV.
Supposed to be sub-MOA to 400 yards:



https://powerbelt.bpishopping....llets-45-280-gr.html

Just wondering if the bullet could be used in a .458 WinM. (what diameter is that .45 ?)
and if it would be tough enough for anything other than varmints at 2400 fps MV.
Is it just a copper-plated, soft lead slug with plastic skirt and tip like the previous PB bullets ?

AEROTIP ELR BULLETS: .45 280 gr.45cal, 280gr, BC=.333
Mighty high BC for such a light .45-cal bullet:

Anyway, it does speak well of Blackhorn 209, smokeless BP substitute, that CVA would design a new system around its use for a "long range ML."
Blackhorn 209 is great for reduced loads in the mighty .458 WinM. with F-215 primer.

I suspect the Power Belt .45-cal/ 280-grainer is 0.449"- 0.450" in diameter, with a .460"-diameter, collapsible/expandable plastic skirt.
Might obturate enough to work, sort of like a paper-patched bullet with BP.

A large charge of Blackhorn 209 with a 280-grainer of BC .333 might be fodder for a DBR trial with heavier bullet of similar BC and velocity in the .458 WinM.
Still thinking no-fuss, 2-bullet, varmint & DG load combos.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_500:
Okay, since its become mandatory to post our origins to continue posting, I will list what the DNA people tell me I have in me:

Not mandatory, just good for the mileage of THE MISSION.
Buy a donkey to Bwana_500.

I know, the "mandatory" comment was tongue-in-cheek, though of course subtlety doesnt come across well over the internet.

But it is interesting that the three people that have mentioned genetic origins on this thread all have very similar origins. I think its safe to extrapolate a sample group of three as clear proof that an interest in big bore rifles is a Scots-Irish trait.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_500
... it is interesting that the three people that have mentioned genetic origins on this thread all have very similar origins. I think its safe to extrapolate a sample group of three as clear proof that an interest in big bore rifles is a Scots-Irish trait.

Four. You, me, Bob, and Mike.
Viking bastards all !

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

...I think its safe to extrapolate a sample group of three as clear proof that an interest in big bore rifles is a Scots-Irish trait.

Four. You, me, Bob, and Mike.
Viking bastards all !

I guess I fit the mold as well.
The Snodgrass half of my lineage is Scottish (the Hill side English).
As it happens, I also have double the average Neanderthal DNA which I contend is the root of my affinity for big bores.

Awesome RIP. Your diligent effort has increased our sample size by 33%

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

...I think its safe to extrapolate a sample group of three as clear proof that an interest in big bore rifles is a Scots-Irish trait.

Four. You, me, Bob, and Mike.
Viking bastards all !

I guess I fit the mold as well.
The Snodgrass half of my lineage is Scottish (the Hill side English).
As it happens, I also have double the average Neanderthal DNA which I contend is the root of my affinity for big bores.

Six. My last name is Elliott--ancestors traced back to Scotland via Northern Ireland.

Bcelliot: So, would you be Scots-Irish?

So my earliest ancestors lived in the East of Eden, After getting evicted from actual Eden by the landLord Which is in Africa as both history and archeology agrees. My modern surname ancestors came here likely from Turon Poland. Settled in Virginia Tennessee and Missouri so I am factually an African American who loves gingerbread and the magnificent 458wm!! My mother’s surname however fits nicely into you boy’s genealogy!

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Bcelliot: So, would you be Scots-Irish?

Guilty!

Irish and Scottish and Scandinavian West-Euro-ancestors walked in via land bridges at the thawing of the last big ice age in the Old World.
Meanwhile the East-Asian-ancestors walked across the land bridge from Far East to Far West, New World.
All of us of Cro-Magnon heritage (maybe some of us with Neanderthal genes too) go back to Tanzanian origin.
There was a lesser freeze and then a thaw and flood since then. Biblical ?

Anyway, Homo sapiens became wise enough eventually to develop the .458 Winchester Magnum.
HOO RAH !

My deer loads this fall will be a 579-grainer at 1399 fps zeroed for 100 yards.
If deer are immune to that,
a 407-grainer at 2170 fps will be zeroed for 200 yards,
and aimed at the flagging white tails that the 579-grainer failed to take down at closer range.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Rip
I don’t think you will find any deer immune to your big slow load. Directed through the vitals will result in one dead deer. Probably very quickly. A jump and kick with a death sprint or DRT. likely the first unless you smack some bone going in. And; it will be the most fun you have ever had shooting a deer!

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
... it will be the most fun you have ever had shooting a deer!

My thoughts precisely, fun, fun, fun.
Running my results on external ballistics programs, I am thinking a 100-yard zero with the 579-grainer (Big Blue) at 1399 fps (fun to shoot)
will produce a 200-yard zero with the 407-grainer (Little Blue) at 2170 fps (fun to shoot).
Those are with 41.5 grains of Blackhorn 209 plus filler,
and 72.0 grains of AA-2495, respectively.
Will prepare batches of both loads and fire them at 100 yards and 200 yards respectively to check the zero of both with same scope setting.
Fun, fun.
Then do some snap shooting at the 200-yard gongs.
Fun fun fun.
Big Blue will only be about 21" low at 200 yards, and right at Mach 1.
Aim 2 feet above the running whitetail at 200 yards with Big Blue and I might be able to gut the deer on the run.
I gutted a deer at 342 yards, once upon a time, with a .416/ 350-gr X-Bullet from a Ruger No.1 .416 Rigby, 2700 fps MV,
mighty dramatic festooning of intestines at impact, recorded on video.
Since then I have learned that a .458/ 350-grain TSX at 2800 fps from a .458 WinM. is most likely even better for gutting deer on the hoof.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

If you shooting running deer at 200 with big blue; remember to get that 458wm swinging out in front. I shot one a bit too far back holding on the nose once. Just not enough lead.

quote:

200-yard zero with the 407-grainer (Little Blue) at 2170 fps (fun to shoot).

It's all about fun with the big bores!

I like it - "fun to shoot"
I will start calling such loads "FTS"
"Got my 500gr FTS loads here"

Huvius,

Buy a donkey for the acronym:



The .458 WinM. is FTS !

To the deniers: WTF could be better than a .458 Winchester Magnum ?

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Sure is funny that the .458 WinM. deniers have scurried away like la coocoo-rot-yahs when the light switch is flipped on.
Maybe they are the ones out rioting and looting lately since giving up their protests here ?
That crap makes as much sense in the streets as they were making here at THE MISSION.

The recoil of the 579-grainer at 1399 fps in a 10-pound, ready rifle is a very mild
32.84 ft-lbs @ 14.54 fps.
KE on the other side of the muzzle is 2,516 ft-lbs. Muzzle MTE = 163
KE at 100 yards = 1991 ft-lbs, MTE = 129

Zeroed at 100 yards, it is only a half-inch high at 25 yards.
More than OK for deer and rabbits and squirrels and such.

The second raibow of fun kicks a little harder,
but only about like a .375 H&H or 450/400 NE 3", on both ends of the 10-pound rifle.




By golly ! That 407-grainer at 2170 fps MV is pretty close to a half-inch high at 25 yards also.
+0.53" for the 579-grainer,
+0.42" for the 407-grainer.
Aiming for the head on squirrels and rabbits at 25 yards is a good plan.

One high and one low, but workable if the wind is not blowing too hard.
Use a 3-9x40mm Nikon 4-circle BDC for both bullets,
the heavy bullet zeroed at 100 yards, 3X magnification:



The light bullet will then be under 4" at 100 yards for a 200-yard zero with same scope reticle adjustments,
though the 9X magnification might be handy for long shots:

Will also consider a combo of 450-gr FN brass/copper solid and 400-gr pointier jacketed/monometal soft,
Might work also, with velocities in the 2300 to 2600 fps range.
FTS !

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Off topic, I know...
RIP, If one were to have a mould with a hexagonal hollow point and a brittle cast, would it act like a fragmenting projectile like the CEB high trauma controlled fragmentation bullets?
You could even use the tips for high BC performance
If the fragmentation did not work out, you could still have a high BC mushrooming cast with a softer alloy.

Howdy boom stick,

Buy a donkey for support of THE MISSION.
Interesting concept, ballistic-tipped-hollow-point
cast lead bullet.

But the brittle hollow point idea with no ballistic tip for no gain in BC ... actually decreased BC with lighter alloy for same form ... not so interesting.
Might as well use a less brittle, heavier FN cast with a solid nose.

To start such a new Ballitic Tip line of cast bullets at BB&BMT, Ltd. (very limited),
Bubba would need to outsource the CEB plastic tips, and get a mould designed to fit them.
Or maybe the ballistic tips could be cast from lightweight zinc.
Bubba could get a mould made for a lead HP and a mould for the zinc ballistic tip to fit,
whether hexagonal or round hole, for the peg to match.

Seems that BC drops off pretty badly for bullets of less than 400-grain weight in the .458-caliber.
Remember the old original Barnes X-Bullet 400-grainer with published BC of .457 ?
The current Woodleigh .458-cal/ 400-grainer claims a BC of only .340 with its blunter "Protected Point" small FN,
shorter, lesser radius ogive, etc.

Ye Olde Barnes X-Bullet 400-grainer might be close to as good as it gets, bullet length 1.370":



Loaded long, 3.570" to 3.590" COL, with 0.300" to 0.280" seating depth, crimped by LEE FCD on a CH4D Can-tooled cannelure,
over a 100% fill of H322 (76.0 grains),
it is FTS.
A rerun from 2017:



Low pressure, accurate, secure against bullet movement in case under recoil battering,
if you need more than that, for any job, you would be needing a brass FN 450-grainer in the .458 Whatever.

BB&BMT (formerly known as BBMT) does produce the .458/ 400-gr T6 by shortening the .458/ 500-gr TSX to 1.400",
by cutting off the base of the TSX.



And remember, the stubby Woodleigh .458/ 400-gr PP SN may be pushed to over 2600 fps with a compressed charge of H4895 and 3.425" COL,
but it really ought to be kept down to 2500 fps impacts.




To complete the review of classic 400-grainers of interest to many,
this bullet with 80.0 grains of non-compressed AA-2230 in a 25" barrel at COL of 3.395" gives an easy 2500 fps:



The GSC HV was great for running deer at 150 yards,
but I expect the 579-grain, home-made FNGC at 1399 fps (3.340" COL) will be even more FTS !

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

The RCBS External Ballistics calculator gives an interesting figure not often stated by most software, "Launch Angle."
This is the angle of the rifle bore relative to true horizontal to produce the calculated ballistics of the load entered.
That is the angle upward for the barrel when the scope or iron sights are aligned straight horizontal at the zero point, the POA to coincide with POI.

For the 579-grainer at 1399 fps for 100-yard zero it is 0*10'00" or 10.0 minutes of angle (MOA).

For the 407-grainer at 2170 fps for 200 yard zero it is 8.8 MOA.

That is with same sight setting for both loads.

Change that load drastically and both the sight settings and launch angle must be changed significantly.

For the 400-grain Woodleigh PP SN at 2627 fps for 200 yard zero the launch angle is 5.9 MOA.
At 2500 fps same bullet requires launch angle of 6.7 MOA, and an adjustment of sights to zero at 200 yards.

This is a complex interaction of recoil-induced elevation of rifle muzzle, barrel time, MV and BC of the bullet, and the sight settings, of course.

If that is insufficiently big-boring, for more exciting reading go to Bob's blog dated September 19, 2020:
"Long Range Shooting of Big Game -- P1":

www.bigborefan.wordpress.com or www.bigbores.ca



"The Unknown Kodiak Hunter" from the USDF&G file photo before Alaska statehood.


.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.