Les,
CZ USA treated me well too.
They replaced a fancy walnut stock that cracked into two pieces, at the wrist, no lead sled involved.
I asked for their "Kevlar" (now "Aramid") stock and got one as the replacement.
They seem to be using more Aramid stocks as OEM nowadays.
That way they don't have to eat the cost of walnut stock replacements.

Running out of lube in a long barrel?
Powder-coat the bullet twice
AND grease the grooves
AND gas check too if it is not a plain base?

A 28"-barreled Ruger No.1 is the same length as a 24"-barreled bolt action.
Not two unwieldy.
And if I leave the barrel straight, full octagon, it sure will be a gentle shooter,
1.100" across the flats at breech and muzzle.
11 to 12 pounds dry?
13.5 to 14.5 pounds "field ready"
with a 34mm-tubed Schmidt&Bender Police&Military 4-16x50mm mildot scope in Badger rings.
Might get those .458/300-grain TTSXs up to 3000 fps.

Rip
.

In service of The Mission:



Rip
.

It will be interesting to see how the S&B holds up . Is it Mil or moa turrets ? How much total elevation travel does it have ? Looks like a good rifle for a 40 moa Canted base . ????

Mike. I think the reason the European's say it is colder there is their blood gets used to the heat . Then when it gets chilly it can't catch up.
A good meal with lots of pasta and fat meat like bacon or SPAM would warm them right up. Along with A lot of water.

CTF,

In the spirit of advancing The Mission, I thank you for the reply.

"1 Klick = 1 cm" at 100 meters.
Convert that.
I believe it has "enough" adjustment for my purposes, don't know the specifics offhand.
I WILL be looking for a 20 MOA Picatinny.
Will try it just to prove to myself that a +$2000 scope is mainly just heavier than a -$200 Nikon SLUGHUNTER,
regarding performance.
May have to find Ruger extension rings to be able to use the SlugHunter on a Ruger MkII.


Rip
.

Jeez, Ron. At first glance I bought you blew one up! Now I see its PARTS to build another one. Gotta start reading for comprehension. Sorry.....

Parts is parts.

I'll get her metal Cerakoted to cover up the scratches from the explosion.
Gun Metal Grey or Armor Black:




Another Chimera, "Rugersoli" is her family name.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Mike. I think the reason the Eurooean's say it is colder there is their blood gets used to the heat . Then when it gets chilly it can't catch up.
A good meal with lots of pasta and fat meat like bacon or SPAM would warm them right up. Along with A lot of water.

Might fix them up

We get tourists die every year, including Americans. In a state like Western Australia, which would have area probably about a 1/4 of the area of your lower 48 and where virtually no one lives outside of Perth and Freemantle, the fact that a map or tourist guide says there is a petrol station/café at xyz means fuck all. If we get off the beaten tack then always 2 4Ds and both the same.

A lot of people will get lost on private properties as some are simply so large. One I shoot on they have a huge, really huge shed with 3 Kenworths and all the John Deere stuff and that shed is a 7 mile drive from their homestead and the shed is your starting point to head out.

Mike,

Thanks for dropping by to chew the fat.


Rip
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MRAD. Cool. So at 1k yards . 1 click should move the bullet right at 3.6 "
When I restock the Spruce King. I'm going to play around with what the rifles inherent accuracy is.
I have an SWFA fixed 10 power mil dot reticle , MOA turrets scope that is an ideal scope mule for the job. 4" of eye relief . And so far 100% perfect tracking. Its rated for -50°F and is OK for 50 BMG. According to SWFA. I can't speak to full function at 50 below. But it worked fine at 40 below so far.
It doesn't have the glass, or class of the. S&B P.M.
We'll see how they stand up.

Western Australia, sounds like it's just a little larger than Alaska.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Western Australia, sounds like it's just a little larger than Alaska.

If you can believe Wikipedia, a lot larger.

Alaska a bit bigger than the Northern Territory.

One has big bears that eat you and the other has big crocodiles that eat you

Hijacks are fine, but back to The Mission:

Here is an excerpt from the "Rifle 111, May-June 1987" artcle by Gil Sengel, for magazine review, excellent magazine:



And compare the short throat of Sengel's .458 WM Special to the SAAMI .458 Lott throat, which is even shorter, and tighter in diameter:



This is why the SAAMI .458 WinMag can be loaded long and beat the ballistics of the .458 Lott.
At the same COL, to avoid excessive pressure in the .458 Lott,
you need to reduce the powder charge of the .458 Lott by a significant amount,
compared to the .458 WinMag Longclaw 3.6" or 3.8".

Rip
.

Another cure for the cast bullet problem?

Gain twist rifling: Start slow and finish up fast with the twist.

Who makes gain-twist rifle barrels in .458-caliber?
Sumbuddy who know?

Rip
.

Here is a 20-MOA tilted base for a Tikka T3x,
but the bottom of it is flat so it will do,
on the top flat of an octagon barrel::



Therefore, I am not now planning to have a full-length Picatinny rail-rib on the 28"-barreled Rugersoli, SAAMI .458 WinMag.
Hopefully some sort of Sharps-Creedmoor-nostalgic iron sights, PLUS the Picatinny for any scope I want, will be worked out.

Rip
.

Here is the same make (Leupold Mark 4) base for a long-action Winchester M70:



And here with some spherical aberration from the camera lens, making the base and rifle look bent:



The one above is flat/straight/parallel-to-bore, but is also available with 20-MOA tilt.
One of those would actually fit on the Pre-'64 action of the WinCzechster,
but she is doing great with a shimmed rear base of the Warne maxima pair.
Couldn't want for anything better there.

Before epoxy:



After epoxy:



The dummies in the ammo carrier on stock above range from 3.300" to 3.600" COL.
All will chamber and eject from the WinCzechster, up to 3.6" loaded ammo length.
The Lott gets red in the face at 2300 fps with a 500-grainer, since the Lott is handicapped by such a short throat.

Rip
.

Another thought on the cast bullet:

5R rifling might be easier on the bullet.
Gain-twist-5R rifling?

Bartlein?

https://bartleinbarrels.com/calibers/

They don't offer .458-caliber barrels as standard offerings, but they do say:

In addition to Standard/Conventional Rifling, we can also do 5R
Non-standard twist, add $20.00
Non-Standard Bore/Groove dimensions, Please call
Non-Standard Groove width or number of grooves, Please call
Any barrel groove not listed, add $100
*** More calibers will be added as tooling gets completed.

If you have an immediate need, Please call for more details.

I gotta give them a call.

Rip
.

Ron,

For the bases do you an epoxy that is hard like Devcon or a softer glue type.

I always used the epoxy softer glue type and apart from think it was better Trichloroethane strips it clean back to the action. It will do the same with the hard stuff not once it has been there for weeks/months when it full cures.

With the softer epoxy glue the screws get it as well (no release agent) and you just heat the action top up and the screws just out real easy.

The stuff we use is called Araldite in Australia and the 24 Hour one is the one and is a 50/50 mix. Use the same stuff for "glue in" bedding jobs.

Mike,
I use JB Weld.

https://www.jbweld.com/

It is soft for a little while after it is mixed.
I do put it on the screw threads too,
and de-grease the screws and screw holes before gluing.

I think it is more "hard" than "soft" when cured.

It is meant for gluing patches on exhaust pipes on farm tractors.
So, good for metal-to-metal, and holds for temperatures somewhere over 400 F.
They claim up to 550 F:

J-B Weld is The Original Cold Weld two-part epoxy system that provides strong, lasting repairs to metal and multiple surfaces. Mixed at a ratio of 1:1, it forms a permanent bond and can be shaped, tapped, filed, sanded and drilled after curing. At room temperature, J-B Weld sets in 4-6 hours to a dark grey color. A full cure is reached in 15-24 hours. J-B Weld has a tensile strength of 3960 PSI and sets to a hard bond overnight. It can withstand temperatures up to 550ºF when fully cured.

https://www.jbweld.com/collect...ld-professional-size

But a torch will make it soft and removable.

Rip
.

I have used Devcon and Devcon Titanium and heat cured them but I found the "glue" to be better.

Also the Trichloroethane won't touch stuff when fully cured, which heating does in no time. Most people don't realise at room temperature these things can take 12 months to fully cure.

For example, if you get Devcon or Devcon Titanium and drop a couple of pieces in Trichloroethane after it has been "curing" for a day or two then it just falls to pieces in the Trichloroethane.

Decon Titanium is not good for bedding. for one thing it is too stiff and it also has more shrinkage. However, if heat cured it is really hard. If you get a section about 1/4" X 1/4" and a couple of inches long and grab it as hard as you can with multi grips you will hardly mark it. I would say it is close to shit aluminium, like in a crappy saucepan type aluminium.

But what you are doing obviously works for you as I seen you post about it before.

Big Bores and getting them accurate and with lots of shots takes you down roads the 223/243 don't know about

Mike,
I think the softest, quickest setting epoxy is fine for gluing a scope base to a rifle,
and better than just some Loc-Tite on the screw threads and oozed between the rifle and the base,
as always happens. So you are faced with a clean-up even if just using Loc-Tite,
if you ever need to remove the base.

My big breakthrough here is use of a brass shotgun shell to make the shim.
Worked out perfectly for my purposes on the WinCzechster.

The last one I shimmed was a Wby Mark V in .510/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved.
I used J-B Weld and multiple layers of Aluminum pie pan IIRC.
That was because the Remington M700 base (Leupold Mark 4) needed to be shimmed to go on the Wby Mark V,
about .020" thickness there too.
You were right-on with that estimate,
for the Weatherby Mk V rear bridge being that much thinner than a Remington M700.
That must be the one you recall.
The brass shotgun shell would have been perfect there too.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Another thought on the cast bullet:

5R rifling might be easier on the bullet.
Gain-twist-5R rifling?

Bartlein?

https://bartleinbarrels.com/calibers/

They don't offer .458-caliber barrels as standard offerings, but they do say:

In addition to Standard/Conventional Rifling, we can also do 5R
Non-standard twist, add $20.00
Non-Standard Bore/Groove dimensions, Please call
Non-Standard Groove width or number of grooves, Please call
Any barrel groove not listed, add $100
*** More calibers will be added as tooling gets completed.

If you have an immediate need, Please call for more details.

I gotta give them a call.

Rip
.

I called and talked to Bartlein about their Gain Twist barrels. Apparently there is a bit of (skidding) that goes on with the engraving of the boolit/bullet as it goes down the bore.

CTF,

When did you talk to Bartlein?
I did not get to do it today.

Of course there is a bit of skidding with all rifling, variable with the kind of bullet.
Would not the abrupt start of the twist be worse than a slow start of gain twist,
with soft lead being more prone to skidding?

5R rationale is that there are no opposing lands (180 degrees apart)
like in 6 and 8-groove, even-numbered grooves, so the bullet is less stressed.

There is a good reason to look into a faster twist in the .458 WinMag: Sabots!

Gain twist might work there too, start at 1:20" and finish at 1:10".
Or just get a 1:10" for sabots and .308 or .338 bullets.
See below.

Rip
.

Excerpt below is for book review of the 1993
CANADIAN SHOOTING ANNUAL, containing a very interesting article by Karl Bosselmann.
Book review: Excellent book.

That last paragraph left it hanging: More work needs to be done with a faster twist.
Fast twist for sabots, slow twist for cast bullets,
medium twist for .458 Lott ballistics.
If anyone has a 1:10" twist .458 Lott that might be OK for sabots too.



Rip
.

HAHAHAHA page 18.
Look out 400 Whelen thread.
We are doing in months what previously took years to do.

I have sabots for .510/.308 and I also have 1:10" twist 500 A2 and 500 Mbogo,
and a 1:9" twist 500 Mbogo.
Never got around to trying those sabots, just stashed them in a cabinet,
along with some light weight, spitzer, .308-caliber Sierra bullets.
Might make a varmint load for the .510-caliber rifles?
The "500 Mbogo Accelerator" could be next for Remington.


I will try those, looking for speed with accuracy, before I build any 1:10" twist .458 WinMag.

Rip
.

Talked to them in Febuary or March iirc.
I don't know what gain twist is available in 458 . in the smaller calibers like 6mm and 6.5 mm it's not much gain. It was described to me as more like a type of choke. Iirc in the 6mm it was less than 1" of gain in the twist.

CTF,
That would indeed be pretty silly to "gain" one inch of twist, i.e.,, go from 1:9" at breech to 1:8" at muzzle.
I had something more radical in mind, but will forget about it unless Bartlein can do better than one inch ...
and whether they will do .458-cal ... ?

2800 fps is fast enough to exercise dominion with about any bullet.
Consider .510/.308-sabot:
.308/155-grain Hornady A-Max is about 1.20" long (1.196"), and at 2800 fps requires 1:14" or faster twist.
I got that covered.

Consider the .45/.357-sabot by MMP:
.358/200-grain Barnes X (old one) has flat base, spire point, is only about 1.15" long (1.146"),
and at 2800 fps requires 1:18.7" or faster twist.

Even the Rugersoli could handle that,
and the 1:14" standard twist of the .458 WinMag ought to be outstanding.

No fast twist needed!

Rip
.

Exercising dominion at 2800 fps:

The 350-grain TSX (~1.24" long) at 2760 fps requires 1:28" twist, or faster!
The 300-grain TTSX (~1.23" long) at 2800 fps requires 1:29" twist or faster!


The 1:18" twist Rugersoli with 28" barrel length might get the 350-grainer over 2800 fps.
It might be better with both light bullets at high MV,
and cast bullets at lower MV.
The Rugersoli might be worthwhile,
depending on accuracy, to be determined.
Sabot loads might be superfluous in the .458 WinMag.
We might say that sabot loads at 4000 fps should be considered merely a stunt.

Rip
.

Let us hope not to slack off on The Mission.

The only benefit of the sabot load would be better BC of light bullet,
and whatever extra velocity could be attained.
Accuracy is the question.

Accuracy will decide:

Possible load data:



This will work in any SAAMI .458 WinMag, 3.4" box no problem.


Rip
.

Above data is from the Barnes Reloading Manual Number 3 for a 26"-barreled .458 Lott using the old Barnes XFB-Cannelured.

It will be interesting to see if the WinCzechster shoots the TTSX well.

The advent of the TTSX has improved things, except for BC of the bullet, amazing!

The stubbier, blunter, hollow-pointed .458/300-gr XFB-Cannelured had a claimed BC of 0.340!!!

The longer, pointier, polymer-tipped .458/300-gr TTSX has a claimed BC of only 0.236 now!!!

Three cannelures instead of only one: Does that really destroy BC like that?
Or is it the change of ogive?
Or is one or the other of those BCs way off?

Rip
.

Ron,

That 300 grainer belongs in a 460.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Above data is from the Barnes Reloading Manual Number 3 for a 26"-barreled .458 Lott using the old Barnes XFB-Cannelured.

It will be interesting to see if the WinCzechster shoots the TTSX well.

The advent of the TTSX has improved things, except for BC of the bullet, amazing!

The stubbier, blunter, hollow-pointed .458/300-gr XFB-Cannelured had a claimed BC of 0.340!!!

The longer, pointier, polymer-tipped .458/300-gr TTSX has a claimed BC of only 0.236 now!!!

Three cannelures instead of only one: Does that really destroy BC like that?
Or is it the change of ogive?
Or is one or the other of those BCs way off?

Rip
.

Barnes BCs are very very optimistic...don't bet your horse on them.

The grooves not necessarily will improve or degrade BC by themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
Ron,

That 300 grainer belongs in a 460.

Barnes Reloading Manual No. 3 has the .458/300-grain XFB-Cannelured doing 3079 fps
with 119.0 grains of RL-19 in a 26"-barreled 460 WbyMag.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustavo:

Barnes BCs are very very optimistic...don't bet your horse on them.

The grooves not necessarily will improve or degrade BC by themselves.

Agree.
I'll shoot that 300-grain TTSX at 100 yards and 300 yards to get a guesstimation of BC.

Rip
.

Chimera WinCzechster got some new fashion accessories. This .458 WinMag is fun!




Those 1/2" nuts on the rings may resemble the nuts and bolts on the side of Frankenstein's neck,
but Chimera is more like The Bride of Frankenstein,
parts is parts!
The sheetmetal box has been reinforced at front,
post-'64 parts on a Pre-'64 30-06 action.
The stainless trigger guard and matte blue floor plate allow nice accents, a stainless front action screw and blued rear screw.
The new slip-on rubber pad for proper LOP (and shooting comfort) looks nice with the brown Beartooth butt sleeve/ammo-carrier.
Mixing and matching with The Bride of Frankenstein is my way of getting into the spirit of Halloween.



Halloween is coming!

Rip
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