quote:

Originally posted by jrn:
... (low group - .262(3 shot) 100 yds - hornady 480 dgs - unsure of load-looking)
(all groups at 100yds)
Barnes 350 TSX 77.2 grains H4895 3.44 oal 2416 fps average velocity - .87 3 shot group ...

jrn,

That's what I'm talkin' about!
Please get back to us with the data on that 480-gr DGS load.
Sounds like your rifle proves, once again, that the Tupperware stocks can be as good as it gets for accuracy,
even if they don't give a pinky-finger erection to the hoity-toity "riflemen" of the jet set.
My Chimera WinCzechster seems to be showing some promise too.
She's a regular Honey Badger in Tupperware.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
How many kangaroos with the 458....like you shooting prairie dogs. Used 400 grain Speer ...
... The best combination of killing power and general spectacle is spotlight shooting with the 378 and those 220 grain Hornady flat noses.

"General spectacle."

For the Gipper, thanks.

Rip
.

You have not felt recoil or muzzle blast until using a 378 in the spotlight.

In the winter in Australia's inland you get a special type of cold, I think it is cause by the dry air but fucking cold is not the word.

When shooting you will be standing in the back of a Landcruiser ute and as often happens the driver suddenly goes flat out as roos seen down the road. The recoil and blast of the 378 under those conditions is something to behold. And with the right load the muzzle flash lights up the country side.

By the way, if you have not tried it....try this....a gallon (the imperial gallon not your small gallon) tin full of petrol standing about 3 feet in front of a fire and from 100 yards back (at night of course) whack it with a 300 Winchester.

Mike,
I am sure that would be a whole lot better than tannerite,
and even a .458 WinMag varmint load would cause a bit of spectacle in that application.

"A chicken in every pot and a .458 WinMag in every home!"
Rip
.

Mike's .458 WinMag varmint load for 'roos:

400-grain Speer FNSP
70.0 grains IMR-4064
2000 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.0 lb-sec

Compare to old standard .458 WinMag DGR load:
500-grain Hornady RNSP
71.0 grains IMR-3031
2150 fps
Recoil Impulse = 6.3 lb-sec

I consider recoil impulse on a scale from 0 to 10 lb-sec.
5.0 is fair to middlin', comfortable.
6.0 is getting to be a little snappy in a rifle under 10 pounds, comfortable in a 10-pound rifle.
10.0 lb-sec and you better have a heavy rifle and/or muzzle brake on that thing.
Above 10: Don't go there too often or you might lose IQ points.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/c...in/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

460 WbyMag plinking load that is comfortable in the factory Wby Mark V Deluxe (about 10 pounds dry and braked):
500-grain bullet
115 grains powder
2500 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.0 lb-sec

.375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012:
300-grain GSC HV
87.0 grains H4350
2759 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.5 lb-sec

.375 H&H Classic Load:
300-grain bullet
72.0 grains powder
2530 fps
Recoil Impulse = 4.9 lb-sec

.30-06 Classic Load
180-grain bullet
57.0 grains powder
2700 fps
Recoil Impulse = 3.3 lb-sec


Rip
.

RIP,
I may just need to find(read - start reloading it again to re-discover) that Hornady load again. it shouldn't take too much since for the past few years I have only been using h4198 and h4895.

My problem with the Hornady DG bullets is the copper wash it leaves in the barrels(even after 3 or 4 shots - has anyone else experienced this?). I'm no clean freak but it drove me crazy.

BTW very interested in the cast loads, neither of my 458s shoot them well(they pattern cast like a mini 14 shoots). But it could be me and the fact that I buy the cast bullets and do not make them(I think they are undersized for my bores).

JRN

JRN

jrn,

The Hornady DG bullets do rub their copper wash off their steel jackets, but no real problems noticed by me.
I use Wipe-Out (foam) and it cleans up easily.

My gut feeling, now, is you need a bullet sized big and cast in hard alloy to work best in a .458 WinMag.
And a long blunt nose of bore diameter to act as bore rider, plus as much full bearing bands as possible ahead of the case mouth also help.

But the Berry's Hardcast 400-grainer RNFP of their old style with standard lube and .459" diameter, work OK with velocities around 1300 fps or less.
Just like the old Trapdoor carbine ballistics,
ain't bad for plinking, deer, and hogs.

Powder coating does not decrease the size of the bullet, and it allows you to hang some empty grease grooves out ahead of the case mouth.
Nice and tidy, dry, powder-coat paint.
Works well at a little over 1400 fps, I know for sure.
I have decided I do not need to go much faster than 1400 fps with any cast bullets.

To build a rifle purposed for .458 WinMag cast bullet loads:
Slower twist.
Shorter throat.
But even a long-throated, 1:14" twist, SAAMI .458 WinMag can do 1 MOA for 5 shots if you find the right cast bullet and don't push it too fast.

The main thing is not to have the bullet skidding in the rifling, it needs to grab the rifling and start spinning with minimum skidding.
I reckon.

Rip
.

RIP,
Good intel on the cast. I can get my loads to 8" steel plate accuracy at 200yds (1200-1300 fps) but 2 moa is the best I can manage. Nonetheless, powder coating has been on my mind, off and on for the past year, and being well versed in the ins and outs of Harbor Freight, this may have to happen sooner rather than later.

As an aside, and to prevent someone from wasting their time, trail boss is a fools errand when it comes to any idea of accuracy. But it does make the gun go bang complete with a funny 'ploinking' sound.

JRN

JRN,

With thanks again to Les Staley,
try that powder coating, you'll like it.
Go to Target and buy a silicone rubber baking tray/cookie sheet.
You'll like that too.
I use a little plastic divider (slide-in, slide-out, from a tackle box), as a scraper to scrape off any traces of the Harbor Freight Red
after I bake a batch of bullets.
Works better than my fingernail.

Rip
.

Ron,

I found that load with the 400 grain Speer bullet just a touch more recoil than the 375 loaded with either 71 grains 4064 and 270 grain and 68 grains and 300 grainer.

That level of recoil for me is about the top whereby I can shoot the rifle as I would a 270 ie. no allowance made for the recoil in how I hold the rifle and from improvised rests.

Although on a bench style rifle with HV barrel and 13 to 13.5 pounds and 2 ounce Jewell and sitting the rifle balanced on one sandbag on the roof of the car and just touchinmg the trigger, the 270 is about it. A 300 Win etc. will fall of the bag onto the roof of the car so you have to hold it.

I don't think I am yet ready for a white tail deer staking hunt I could get complaints from the ethics committee

I cast up a couple hunnert 405 grain 458 RNFP bullets a couple weeks ago. Ran thru the 459 sizer and gas checked, they're waiting for PCin. Maybe tomorrow. Gonna water drop the whole tray at once coming out of the oven. (Got my own concrete boat ramp into the St Joe river just out behind the house.). Should keep 'em a little harder.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
I know I am about to commit a mortal sin on AR (but I can go an hide down in Political ) but of the 458s I have either owned or been directly involved with the best were those Rem 700 Safaris. The ones that looked a Rem 700 Varmint but with open sights. About the same barrel contour as a Mark V 460.

No extra recoil lug welded to the barrel so as to fuck up the barrel.

Apart from the biggest action recoil lug in the business also by far the most stock material behind the lug. Those Rem 458s after bedding/floating all shot magic with 500 grain Hornady and same with 400 grain Speer loaded to 2000 f/s with around 70 grains of 4064.

I still get the creeps when I see a Mauser action with the 223 type recoil lug and very little stock material behind the tiny recoil lug and of course no tang to bed properly.

Those same Rem 700s were good in 375 as well.

I wonder if Weatherby has ever sold any of their DGRs or Safari rifles in 458 Winchester??

18 rounds of factory 458 ammo is all it took to shatter the stock of the last 458 Remington 700 . A friends Model 700 , 416 Rem mag lasted about300 rounds before it split its Custom Shop level at stock. Neither had an under barrel recoil lug.
I've had sub moa factory 458s with welded on , milled and dovetailed , or screwed on. . Having an under barrel recoil lug does not mean a rifle will be inaccurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Les Staley:
I cast up a couple hunnert 405 grain 458 RNFP bullets a couple weeks ago. Ran thru the 459 sizer and gas checked, they're waiting for PCin. Maybe tomorrow. Gonna water drop the whole tray at once coming out of the oven. (Got my own concrete boat ramp into the St Joe river just out behind the house.). Should keep 'em a little harder.

Les,

Thanks for trying that for me.
I was wondering what would happen to the hot paint on the bullet if it was quenched in water.
I am guessing that will work and the paint will not flake off when it hits the water.

Rip
.

a great idea for learning to run the 458 lead slinger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...KYR24Ng#action=share

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

... I've had sub moa factory 458s with welded on , milled and dovetailed , or screwed on. . Having an under barrel recoil lug does not mean a rifle will be inaccurate.

CTF,

Ditto your last comment above.
Even the WinCzechster has the integral remnant of the CZ secondary recoil lug on the barrel,
bedded full contact in the Tupperware forearm filled with wood and Marinetex epoxy,
allthread crossbolt behind that barrel lug.
Bedded all the way out to forend tip, not free-floated.
It is showing great promise in the accuracy department:
With the "PC-Government" cast bullet a 0.9 MOA 5-shot group at 50 yards, and a 1.3 MOA 5-shot group at 300 yards.
I expect great things with jacketed bullets.

You gotta humor Mike.
He is good for "spectacle" of the thread and advancing the page count.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by stradling:
a great idea for learning to run the 458 lead slinger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...KYR24Ng#action=share

stradling,

Thanks for that.
Where is that amusement park located?
Looks like a bunch of fun and good training could be had there, for the whole family.

Rip
.

As promised,
here are the case capacities of 3 different brands of .458 WinMag brass.
The only surprise is that there is so little difference between the brands.
5 randomly picked, once-fired, not-re-sized cases for each brand,
including a spent F-215 primer in each:

Hornady Mfg. Co.:
Mean brass case weight = 336.60 grains
Gross case water capacity, weight = 94.30 grains, Sd = 0.106 grains

Winchester/W-W Super:
Mean brass case weight = 332.92 grains
Gross case water capacity, weight = 94.44 grains, Sd = 0.080 grains

Remington/RP:
Mean brass case weight = 330.48 grains
Gross case water capacity, weight = 94.24 grains, Sd = 0.165 grains

Differences are tiny,
But RP is not the best.
I'll use that for Flying-Pig-with-Lipstick launching henceforth.
The AA-5744 will not notice that 0.165-grain standard deviation of case capacity in a half-filled case.

Hornady brass will be used for 450 to 600-grain jacketed bullets.

WW Super brass will be used for 350 to 400-grain bullets, for no particular reason.

Rip
.

For the Gipper, a re-ordering and expansion of Recoil Impulse numbers list:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/c...in/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

500 Mbogo 3-Inch aka .50-'08
570-grain Hornady DGX bullet
123.0 grains H-4350
2364 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.5 lb-sec
In 10-pound rifle:
Recoil Energy = 117.6 ft-lbs
Recoil Velocity = 27.5 fps

470 Mbogo
500-grain Barnes Original RNSP bullet
116.0 grains RELODER-15
2710 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.4 lb-sec
In 10-pound rifle:
Recoil Energy = 114.5 ft-lbs
Recoil Velocity = 27.1 fps

500 Mbogo 3-Inch aka .50-'08
450-grain GS Custom HV bullet
115.0 grains BENCHMARK
2848 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.1 lb-sec
In 10-pound rifle:
Recoil Energy = 105.3 ft-lbs
Recoil Velocity = 26.0 fps

460 WbyMag plinking load that is comfortable in the factory Wby Mark V Deluxe (about 10 pounds dry and braked):
500-grain bullet
115 grains powder
2500 fps
Recoil Impulse = 8.0 lb-sec

Old standard .458 WinMag DGR load (comfortable in non-braked 10-pounder):
500-grain Hornady RNSP
71.0 grains IMR-3031
2150 fps
Recoil Impulse = 6.3 lb-sec
In 10-pound rifle:
Recoil Energy = 62.9 ft-lbs
Recoil Velocity = 20.1 fps

.458 WinMag, Western Powders Reloading & Load Data Guide Edition 6.0:
400-grain Barnes SSSP bullet
76.0 grains AA-2015
2468 fps
Recoil Impulse = 6.0 lb-sec

Bob Mitchell's .458 WinMag CZ Loaded for Bear and Moose:
350-grain TSX bullet
80.0 grains H4198
2760 fps
Recoil Impulse = 6.0 lb-sec

.375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012:
300-grain GSC HV
87.0 grains H4350
2759 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.5 lb-sec

400 Whelen-Petrov-Berry 3.6" of 2013:
400-grain Woodleigh WC-RNSP
60.0 grains H4895
2209 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.2 lb-sec

Mike's .458 WinMag varmint load for 'roos:
400-grain Speer FNSP
70.0 grains IMR-4064
2000 fps
Recoil Impulse = 5.0 lb-sec

.375 H&H Classic Load:
300-grain bullet
72.0 grains powder
2530 fps
Recoil Impulse = 4.9 lb-sec

.458 WinMag PC-Government Cast Bullet Load:
487-grain bullet
36.0 grains powder
1436 fps
Recoil Impulse = 3.9 lb-sec

.30-06 Classic Load
180-grain bullet
57.0 grains powder
2700 fps
Recoil Impulse = 3.3 lb-sec

Rip
.

For the Gipper:

The recoil of the "usual-weight" (10 pounds field ready, loaded and scoped) .458 WinMag slinging cast boolits
(487-grainer @ 1436 fps):
RI = 3.9 lb-sec
RE = 23.9 ft-lbs
RV = 12.4 fps

That is near identical to an 8-pound 30-06:
RI = 3.3
RE = 22.5 ft-lbs
RV = 13.5 fps

Very gentlemanly.

Rip
.

Only 9 more posts after this to finish off page 16, then 1 more to start page 17,
for the Gipper.



Rip
.

The .458 Winchester Magnum IS the Gipper.



Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

I've had sub moa factory 458s with welded on , milled and dovetailed , or screwed on. . Having an under barrel recoil lug does not mean a rifle will be inaccurate.

Model 70 375/458 barrel in the 70s were not good and because of that lug under the open sight. We found the best way wit them was bed the action, free float the barrel either side of the lug and bed the recoil lug but with a screw into the lug.

If the lug was not screwed down then the rifles were better with forend tip pressure.

When Winchester brought out those stainless/rubber stock 375s we found they were much better than the wood gun barreled action. Sure, you might get a good accuracy load ok with the wood action barreled action but a lot more fussy with different loads and points of impact changes. All the hallmarks of a barrel wit stresses.

It is worth noting that Weatherby put the barrel lug on the knox form of the barrel, maybe an inch or so from the action. There would be very few people who have had as much experience with big kickers as Weatherby.

Cold Trigger Finger above mentions broken stocks and 458 type calibre.

I have no reason to disbelieve him with the Rem 700s although I don't know the number of guns or span of time or whatever. Bad batch....I don't know.

However, it raises something I have observed on forums over many years.

With the big kickers Americans seem to have far more issues with stocks than Australians but Australians have far problems with scopes. Since in general we are talking about big bore enthusiasts so lots of shots fired, not just a few shots for Africa etc.

I have wondered if temperature/climate has anything do with it. In Australia we commonly shoot mid summer (remember Christmas time in Australia) and Australia has a very strong radiant heat in the inland. In other words everything gets very hot whether it be the panels on the vehicle, the and of course the scope.

American seem to shoot a lot in real cold weather...snow and so on.

Could the very cold weather make stocks more brittle but on the other hand would extreme heat make the stock less brittle but no so good for the scope? When I say extreme heat I am not talking about the air temperature but the temperature the rifle, scope, car body etc. gets to.

Whacky Weatherby Knoxform Recoil Lug: WWKRL

Mike, you might be onto something with cold-cracking of wood stocks.
Tupperware might not suffer as much from cold-cracking at NA hunting temperatures.

Increased pressure inside the scope from heat?
Maybe a cause for failure of seals?
Maybe Australians would not have such scope problems if they used Nikon SlugHunter scopes.
A $200 scope on a $2000 rifle warms the cockles of my heart, whatever the ambient temperature.

Keep up the good work.

Rip
.

Doodling on a 3.6" boxed .458 WinMag,
I just stuck a Leupold Mark 4 Picatinny rail on a Winchester M70 Extreme Weather .338 WinMag.
That will fit any scope imaginable.

Burris Xtreme Tacticool rings might work in low height with the SlugHunter scope if the bolt handle can clear the ocular bell.
The Picatinny is a wee bit higher than the Warne Maxima bases on the WinCzechster, which are very low profile,
requiring medium Burris rings.

Will report on any further doodling,
like trying that Extreme Weather M70 in the McMillan-stock/Sunnyhill-bottom-metal combo.
That will allow a No.5 Sporter contour barrel
('cause it has a No.6 in it now).
No.5 should balance well at 25" to 26" length ...
and at least one extra round in the box.
Since that stock is working well on a .500/.338LM (12.7x68mm Magnum) with no secondary recoil lug on the barrel (and very accurate),
I would skip the barrel lug on a .458 WinMag too,
unless it had a wood stock.

The .458 WinMag is a powerful dwarf,
so versatile.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Whacky Weatherby Knoxform Recoil Lug: WWKRL

Ron,

A gunsmith in Sydney (now dead) used to make a lug for the old Sakos that was a one piece of steel that was a ring and a lug projecting and it was sweated onto the knox form of the Sakos we would use in 375.

With the scopes it could be the seals or rubbers or whatever.

At the time (late 60s and very early 70s) we used a Ciba‑Geigy product called K230 for bedding. in the middle of the day, extreme radiant heat, we had them setback in Sako with that small lug. Later, we could get Devcon and that takes much higher temperature.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
... Later, we could get Devcon and that takes much higher temperature.

So does JB Weld.
I have smeared that all over some of my rifles, inside and outside.

Rip
.

The original "Short Magnum" DGR, the 425 Westley Richards of 1908, was finally obsoleted by the .458 WinMag in 1956.
The .458 WinMag can whip the 425 WR with one hand tied behind its back.

Rip
.

I don't really need a long-boxed .458 WinMag.
I can single-load the long COL loads, with a box full of 3.375" elephant stoppers.
Yep, I do not need a .458 WinMag 3.6" Longclaw,
I just want one.
Next post starts page 17.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
Cold Trigger Finger above mentions broken stocks and 458 type calibre.

I have no reason to disbelieve him with the Rem 700s although I don't know the number of guns or span of time or whatever. Bad batch....I don't know.

However, it raises something I have observed on forums over many years.

With the big kickers Americans seem to have far more issues with stocks than Australians but Australians have far problems with scopes. Since in general we are talking about big bore enthusiasts so lots of shots fired, not just a few shots for Africa etc.

I have wondered if temperature/climate has anything do with it. In Australia we commonly shoot mid summer (remember Christmas time in Australia) and Australia has a very strong radiant heat in the inland. In other words everything gets very hot whether it be the panels on the vehicle, the and of course the scope.

American seem to shoot a lot in real cold weather...snow and so on.

Could the very cold weather make stocks more brittle but on the other hand would extreme heat make the stock less brittle but no so good for the scope? When I say extreme heat I am not talking about the air temperature but the temperature the rifle, scope, car body etc. gets to.

The best time to split firewood , if using an ax or splitting maul is colder than 30 below F.
Wood splits real well then . Alaska is real tough on firearms. IF they are taken out and worked. If they are just pinky finger safe queens then it don't matter. Scopes are subject to bad things happening to them in the cold also. Some much worse than others.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

Alaska is real tough on firearms. IF they are taken out and worked. If they are just pinky finger safe queens then it don't matter. Scopes are subject to bad things happening to them in the cold also. Some much worse than others.

Speaking of Alaska...

I am on a data base forum (Access, SQL Server and also Excel) and a couple of years ago a poster was having trouble with advanced Access applications and the problems were occurring before lunch but after lunch things got OK.

He posted up the different code he was using etc. and all looked fine. In addition the stuff all worked previously.

The problem? The bloke worked from home and had set up an office in his garage or some room outside. Unlike is house it was not heated 24 hours. He would go out of morning and turn heaters on so he was warm but not the computers, took some time before the room as a whole and the computers came out of being very cold.

I'll tell you what will break/split/destroy a wood stock quicker than anything. A doggone LEAD SLED! If you weight it down with a couple bags of shot, there's no place for the rifle to go..ends up in two pieces, and it doesn't take a 458 Win Mag to do it. I snapped a brand new CZ#3 in 300WSM sighting it in for elk season a few years back. I cobbled up a Winchester Classic synthetic model 70 stock and killed a couple elk with it. CZ in KC stood behind it, and I still have the new walnut stock they sent me.

There's a number of very good reasons I built the Spruce King on a stainless Ruger action. Something Ruger seems to have lost track of with all this American rifle foolishness.
The M77 mk ll is probably the toughest action extant. It can handle problems that even the CZ crf actions can't handle.
What most may call abuse and neglect are generally neither with a stainless Ruger M77 Mk ll .

The little springs and things that push feed actions rely on to stay operating . Don't do well in wet cold .

Anyway .
Since I can't take the heat of Africa or Australia . I can't say how stainless Ruger's hold up in the heat. But I imagine they do well. May need a little oil once in a while.
The cold, real cold is like being in a different world.
Some day I would like to have the time to do a fairly comprehensive chronographing sessions in the cold.
The problem is , the electronics on chronographs freeze up fairly fast in 40 below . I don't know how a Magneto Speed would work in the cold . ??
My crony, I put it in a cardboard box . it will last for several shots that way. At 30 below it often works fine for 10-15 minutes.

RIP, all we need are stripper clips for the 458. That is the beauty of the 425 Westly Richards. Stripper Clips

quote:

The best time to split firewood , if using an ax or splitting maul is colder than 30 below F

Helps keep you warm also.

A tough piece of knotty oak well just pop wide open when hit at those temps.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
There's a number of very good reasons I built the Spruce King on a stainless Ruger action. Something Ruger seems to have lost track of with all this American rifle foolishness.
The M77 mk ll is probably the toughest action extant. It can handle problems that even the CZ crf actions can't handle.
What most may call abuse and neglect are generally neither with a stainless Ruger M77 Mk ll .

The little springs and things that push feed actions rely on to stay operating . Don't do well in wet cold .

Anyway .
Since I can't take the heat of Africa or Australia . I can't say how stainless Ruger's hold up in the heat. But I imagine they do well. May need a little oil once in a while.
The cold, real cold is like being in a different world.
Some day I would like to have the time to do a fairly comprehensive chronographing sessions in the cold.
The problem is , the electronics on chronographs freeze up fairly fast in 40 below . I don't know how a Magneto Speed would work in the cold . ??
My crony, I put it in a cardboard box . it will last for several shots that way. At 30 below it often works fine for 10-15 minutes.

Apart from TV/Movies I have never seen snow however we do get in some southern parts of Australia and they have a ski season.

Just based on what I have read and have been told etc. I suspect that overall the very cold is harder on things. By the very cold I mean actual temperatures as distinct from how cold it feels. For example in inland Australia in winter time the mornings and late nights are something else. I have seen Europeans say they have just never felt anything like it yet the temperature is only about 32F or 0C. I think what also makes it feel colder is the daytime has been OK. If the temperature get down to below 0C/32F then you can get what is called a "black frost" and it kills the crops. Because of the bone dry air no dew has formed.

I think what you say about the cutting of the wood might be the answer to the stocks. On Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum, which is an extremely active forum, I would say 99.9% of postings about stock issue is due to a lack of cross bolt and of course the stock splitting is from the stock ballooning out in the middle.

I think another difference like the extreme cold you are talking about is both the people and houses and so on are geared up for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
RIP, all we need are stripper clips for the 458. That is the beauty of the 425 Westly Richards. Stripper Clips

Stripper clips! Ha!

Good work men, moved on to page 17, soon to be page 18.

I got this Pedersoli take-off barrel that is 1:18" twist, full octagon, 30" long, .458-groove/.450-bore.

With a SAAMI .458 WinMag re-chamber and screwing it onto a Ruger No.1 action,
I will have a humdinger for cast bullet shooting, at moderate velocities.
And, the 1:18" twist would also work wonders with about any jacketed bullet driven fast enough.
Long throat would be no issue for cast bullet accuracy, as the single-shot will have no COL limits due to magazine box length.

Another great shop mule in the works.
I have both some very fancy walnut,
and a B&C synthetic stock for the Ruger No.1,
to choose from ...
That is a tough decision!
Soule tang sight and globe front or Picatinny rail scope mount ...
That one is easy: Both.
Both sights, and, OK, both stocks, easy enough to switch back and forth.
The Picatiiny rail will not get in the way of the "Creedmoor" style elements.
Nostalgia and Tacticool combined.
From .45-70 Govt to better than .458 Lott ballistics in one package.
Fast fingers for feeding reloads in a charge situation.
Truly CRF.

Rip
.

CTF,
Yep, I might just forget about the 3.6" box on a WinM70.
The 3.4" box on a Ruger MkII/Hawkeye is good enough on an all stainless "Spruce King" and I have a boat-paddle stock for that one, as well as HS Precision and Hogue.
A chrome-moly Ruger No.1 with 1:18" twist and a stainless Spruce King with 1:14" twist will cover a lott of ballistics.
Maybe a 1:12" twist on my Spruce King,
just because I like the revolutions per second of the bullet to match the fps of the MV.

Rip
.

A Special made #1 cast .458. Yep. That would be cool. I think I would use a Non SAAMI throat though. No need for that balloon in the middle for cast loads. But to keep your mission of historical 458 WM posting going, I reckon the SAAMI throat would keep the naysayers at bay.
30" barrel will eat some lube but with your Powder coat and double coat if needed, I also reckon that you would have no problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
A Special made #1 cast .458. Yep. That would be cool. I think I would use a Non SAAMI throat though. No need for that balloon in the middle for cast loads. But to keep your mission of historical 458 WM posting going, I reckon the SAAMI throat would keep the naysayers at bay.

Fury01, very insightful of you.
Yes, I was tempted to do a ".458 Winchester Magnum Special" with short throat and slow twist.
See "In Search of a Practical .458 Magnum" RIFLE 111 May-June 1987, by Gil Sengel.
He used a 0.220"-long parallel-sided free-bore,
and a 1:20" twist barrel of 22" length on a Mark X Mauser.
He was interested in using cast bullets of no heavier than 405-grain weight.
The short throat had a great effect on maximum loads.
Summary: He had to reduce loads up to 10 grains of powder to get not quite as much velocity.
Example, using a 400-grain Speer (jacketed) bullet, 22" barrels:
In a SAAMI .458 WinMag, 71.0 grains of IMR-3031 gave 2,108 fps.
Sengel's .458 WM Special would accept only 62.0 grains of IMR-3031 before belt expansion occurred,
and velocity attained was 2,025 fps.
So he burnt powder more efficiently and did get better accuracy with 380-grain cast bullets,
.459"-sized, Gas-Checked, Linotype, Lyman#457483:
"When backed by 54.0 grains of RL-7 and seated to an overall length of 2.975 inches, groups average just over one inch. Velocity is right at 1,900 fps."
60.0 grains of RL-7 with same bullet gave 2,140 fps and group size about 1.5", 5 shots at 100 yards, I do believe.


30" barrel will eat some lube but with your Powder coat and double coat if needed, I also reckon that you would have no problem.

Barrel length will probably be 28" after the cutting off the threads and re-threading.
Just like a Sharps "Business" rifle length, maybe half-round, half-octagon.
But I will powder-coat, once or twice, as needed.
Try the grease-groove lubes too, plain-based and gas-checked

Onward with the SAAMI .458 WinMag Mission.

Rip
.

JB Weld is what I have for grip texture on the Spruce King . that's what I beddedthe under barrel recoil lug with also . Works PERFECT.