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No, I have not paper-patched any bullets for the .458 WinMag, as earlier suggested. But that too shall be done if need be to beat the 400 Whelen. I got a book on how to paper-patch bullets ...   Rip . | |||
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 Cartridges were loaded with 36.0 grains of AA-5744, thrown powder charges, not weighed. It was just a little windy. Both Kentucky Windage and Tennessee Elevation were required at 600 yards.   I ran out of scope adjustment. Could not get it 3" high at 100 yards. I am going to have to shim the rear base. That means I am going to get rid of the blue LocTite and use JB Weld on the 8x40 base screws. It is time. I like this rig.     3 of the hits removed a lot of white paint, 3 of them had a small central area of white paint removal, all 6 hits had a star of Linotype spray radiating from the impact point. Hit number 3 above is shown in close-up below. Note the little piece of red PC-paint inside the green circle:  It takes 1.642 seconds for the flying pig with lipstick to get to the gong. Red lipstick is left on the gong. The sound of that kiss takes 1.620 seconds to get back to the shooter. The gong is heard 3.262 seconds after the shot, when a pig flies 600 yards. Rip . | |||
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Like !!! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Want "tougher" boolits? add a little copper http://castboolits.gunloads.co...discuss-this-further | |||
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Me too! Since I am taking Chimera out of her stock (in case I have to apply a torch to the LocTite on her scope bases), I might try her in a different stock than the Tupperware ... NOT! That Tupperware is perfect for that redneck girl that spits pigs wearing lipstick! Doesn't get any better than that. Rip . | |||
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I always thought copper was a contaminant to be avoided.  I will leave it alone until after I have tried the Rippalloy. I am considering pushing the unpainted Government bullet through the .459" or .460" Lee sizer, backwards. Or maybe the .459" Lyman sizer with a flat nose punch. Hopefully the Rippaloy is soft enough to create a little flat meplat on the nose of the bullet. Then I will PC-paint the bullets and push them through the .460" Lee sizer again, as usual, with the base pusher. Then play with the COL after the nose is flattened. Flattening the nose that way "work-softens" it a bit. Other cast bullets: The 7-groove, plain base, Parker-Hale (Lyman # 457121) is a 475-grain Flat Nose that would offer lots of seating depths when PC-painted. The Lyman # 2640671 aka 457671 gas-checked, that I tried in 30-1 with gas check and PC-paint as .459"/486-grainer, might work better if cast to greater diameter and slightly lighter weight in the harder Rippalloy. It could be left with the semi-pointed, rounded nose or flattened with a nose punch to form an ogived-FN or FP-RN. Not interested in zinc cast bullets either, after reading an article about them. Sabot loads with smaller caliber, jacketed bullets suitable for 1:14" twist? That is still calling to me for a try at plus Mach 3 with zero barrel leading. To be continued. Only 12 pages to go to catch up to the 400 Whelen thread. Rip . | |||
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in the right combination, it makes a very "tough" (hard, but not brittle) boolit | |||
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You tell them Albert. Cu/Pb alloy makes for the best cast bullets. | |||
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Whatever you guys say. I will get around to it eventually. Thanks for adding to the thread. I would surely want to powder-coat a Pb/Cu alloy cast bullet. Might even spring for the more expensive powder-coat than Harbor Freight Red, so as to have another shade of lipstick for the pig.  Rip . | |||
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Ron, I somehow just KNEW that was coming. It was inevitable. Guess I'll try to kill a whitetail with my 458 and piggy lipstick. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. | |||
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I think you'll like it. | |||
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aephilli, Who were you rooting for in football today, FSU or U of L at that Tallahassee home game?  As you were ... Great new shim material I thought up : Take a Magtech 12ga brass case. Cut off the head with a hacksaw. Use tin snips to split the thin cylinder of 12ga brass. Gently hammer it out flat on the anvil of a bench vise. Note the thickness is less at the case mouth end than at the base end of the little brass sheet you now have. Mark the orientation with a sharpie marker, for convenience. Lay your little paper template for the shim on the brass, in about the center of the sheet, front of shim toward thin end, rear of shim toward thick end. Tape the template (with transparent package tape or Scotch tape) in the selected location. Use drill press to drill the holes in the shim that the base screws will pass through. Use precision shears like my "Case XX Sportsman's Shear" to cut out the shim, following the paper pattern. Or trace the pattern onto the brass with a fine-point Sharpie pen, or an Exacto knife/scalpel as scribe, and discard the paper template before cutting out the shim. Your choice. Use a precision file to smooth any rough edges on the shim from the shear. I did the above and found that my shim had 0.015" thickness at front, and 0.025" thickness at rear. Average of this is 0.020". A straight 0.020" thickness is what I was shooting for. I got better than I was shooting for. Like a tactical-tilt base with how many MOA tilt? Whatever, it worked perfectly. I used JB Weld and brand-new 8x40 screws to glue that shim to the rifle, and to the underside of the rear scope base:      The proof is in the pudding: I found that the Nikon 3-9x42mm BDC SlugHunter has 170 clicks of vertcal adjustment. 85 up, 85 down when centered. At 100 yards, each click is more like 3/8" (0.375") not 1/4" (0.250") as claimed on the turrets. I set the scope at center of the elevation range. To zero it 3" high at 100 yards, I had to go up 25 clicks. I now have 60 clicks to spare.  Below is the best group yet for me with this rifle and the flying pigs with lipstick, I reckon, since it is for 5 shots at 300 yards, and the wind was blowing. The scope takes care of the elevation, no Tennessee Elevation required. On 9X power, hold the bottom post on the target at 300 yards. I cannot miss unless the wind is blowing.  Kentucky Windage is still required.  Rip . | |||
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I have fired 50 shots without cleaning and noted no worsening of accuracy or visible increase in leading of the barrel, compared to how the rifle was after 30 shots and 40 shots, on previous outings. I am pushing the envelope on dirty. No lipstick stains visible in the barrel, just a little leading. Rip . | |||
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Good work Rip! Those pigs will still kill too at 300 if you land them like that. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Sounds like your turrets are 1/10th MRAD. Very ingenious Canted base and and you didn't even need a 1 piece bridge base. Good shooting ! What's the recoil impulse like ?? Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Fury01, Thanks for the reply. 40 replies make a page and get us closer to catching up with the 400 Whelen. But hey, that thread has taken years to this one's months. Maybe those linotype pigs with lipstick are going slow enough that they will not explode on a deer at 300 yards, like they do on a steel gong! As you pointed out, the Linotype is too brittle for big game, but makes a good target and varmint bullet. Rip . | |||
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CTF, Thanks for the reply, page 16 coming up, but you doesn't needs to copy all my ugly photos lest big-boredom set in from garbage repetition. Atkinson might complain. To get the post count and turn the page, I am going to have to limit the length of my posts: More shorter ones. See recoil impulse in next post. Rip . | |||
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I like using recoil impulse to gauge the kick. It is independent of rifle weight, and condenses the recoil into one number. That impulse is like the impulse power of the Star Ship USS Enterprise, instead of the warp drive method of calculating recoil energy and velocity for a given load and rifle weight. You have to make all rifles weigh the same, say 10.0 lbs, to get an easy comparison of the recoil of two different loads, unless you simply use the recoil impulse. My 487-grainer at 1436 fps with 36.0 grains of powder: Recoil Impulse = 3.9 lb-sec. Generic .458 WinMag 500-grain load at 2150 fps with 71.0 grains of powder: Recoil Impulse = 6.3 lb-sec. The Flying-Pig-with-Lipstick load is very gentle by comparison. Feels like about half the kick. It has 62% of the impulse of a "standard" .458 WinMag 500-grain load. I used this calculator: http://www.jbmballistics.com/c...in/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi Rip . | |||
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Ron, This is off topic from your cast bullet stuff  I have never even fired a 458 Lott but plenty with 450 Ackley and 460 Wby as well as plenty of 458 Winchester. I reckon compared to the 458 Win, the 450 Ackley is like cruising around in a big V8 manual as opposed to a little 4 cylinder manual. The 450 Ackley does the 2100 plus with 500 grainers with so much ease and of course the 460 is in real rediuced load area. 85 grain 40464/500 grain Hornady, right on 2000 f/s, 1" to 1.5" groups all day and pressure like an air rifle Of course I realise the 460 Wby is a bigger deal with action choice/conversion etc. than a 458 Win but not so the 450 Ackley. I imagine the 458 Lott is close enough to the 450 Ackley. In short I think the 458 Win is a mentally stress causing waste of time. | |||
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Next up: Duplicate Bob Mitchell's 350-grain TSX load: 2760 fps in a 25" barrel with ~80 grains of powder. Recoil impulse of that one is 6.0 lb-sec. It has 87% of the recoil impulse of the 500 grainer at 2150 fps (above). Rip . | |||
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Baloney! It is a lot of fun, for the non-mentally-challenged shooter. I have shot all my Linotype Pigs with Lipstick. I will cast them in Rippalloy next, after some jacketed varmint load fun. And thanks for the reply, Mike. Getting closer to the next page. Go .458 WinMag. Rip . | |||
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Rip I am very interested to see what size your Ripalloy slugs drop compared to the Linotype. Then the shooting comparison! Now if VonGruff would post his copper alloy recipe here, we could apply that to the discussion. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Fury01, Gong shooting with a .458 WinMag is so much fun that I gots to do some more. Rippalloy is basically Lyman#2 with a trace of arsenic in it from the Lawrence brand Magnum birdshot, I hope. Will report on diameters and weights of a Lyman 457125 cast in that. Then go gonging, of course. I agree that the lead-copper alloy is very interesting. Sort of a Hi-Lead bronze? Is a new Bronze Age upon us? Aephilli and VonGruff would do a great service by supplying that recipe. I just don't have time to research that right now. Too much other fun at hand right now. Rip . | |||
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I received one pound of AA 2230.I have a Walther Lothar .458 barrel on order for my CZ 550.I might try and find some lead cast bullets for it. | |||
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Way to go shootaway! Any and all .458 WinMag reports appreciated here. Keep those replies coming. Short replies count as much as long ones. Rip . | |||
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Went caribou hunting yesterday. A road hunt up the Richardson Hwy. But , I brought just my 6.5 Creedmoor . Which is a caribou slaying machine. Would like to have time to get the Spruce King shined up . With a Boyd's Classic laminate , NECG banded sling eye and front sight, and Express rear . Just no time what with work , putting in the winters firewood ect. Ect. Maybe this winter I'll get time. Sure hope so ! -2°F here this morning. So I think we've had freeze up. I've got to get the banded bits ordered before we get 40 below weather. I'll set the rifle outside for a few hours and set the banded bits on the wood stove . they should respectively expand and contract plenty enough to slide right into place and remain nice and tight for the life of the rifle. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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CTF, Did you get a bou with the Creedmoor? I never made it to the Richardson Highway bou hunt, but I did do some 4-wheeler/ATV riding, and unsuccessful horseback moose hunting around there, once upon a time ... No doubt about it, a .458 WinMag bou-hammer would be fun. I am going to lay off the cast bullets for a while, and try those 350-grain TSX bullet, looking for fast and accurate with H4198. BTW, 350-gr TSX at 2760 fps with 80 grains of powder: Recoil Impulse = 6.0 lb-sec Almost as much as the elephant thumper (6.3 lb-sec) Rip . | |||
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It has taken the 400 Whelen over 5 years to get where that thread is. The .458 WinMag is closing in on it after less than 4 months. And I wonder how fast H4198 can make a 300-grain TTSX go from a .458 WinMag ... to be continued on page 16.  Rip . | |||
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 Yep, 40 replies per page. Time to go prepare my old WW brass for some varmint loads, in the footsteps of Bob with the 350-grain TSX and H4198. Starting low and working up. Whatever the max charge of H4198 is with the 350-gr TSX, I'll start there with the 300-grain TTSX and continue working up the powder charge weight, with the reduced bullet weight. Ridin' the .458 WinMag Road with the WinCzechster, YEEHAW! Rip . | |||
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Men, we are going to have to get busy. There seems to be a flurry of activity on the 400 Whelen thread. We must catch up to them in page count. Do it for the Gipper! Not the Ripper. Rip . | |||
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So I will keep my replies short, to maximize page count: 40 replies per page needed. I'll tell what I am going to tell about before I tell it. Next up is a comparison of gross water capacity of three makes of .458 WinMag brass: 1. Winchester-Western,aka WW Super, or "WW" brass. 2. Remington-Peters or "RP" brass. 3. Hornady Manufacturing Co. or "HM" brass. Only 37 more replies needed to get to page 17.  Rip . | |||
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I know I am about to commit a mortal sin on AR (but I can go an hide down in Political ) but of the 458s I have either owned or been directly involved with the best were those Rem 700 Safaris. The ones that looked a Rem 700 Varmint but with open sights. About the same barrel contour as a Mark V 460.No extra recoil lug welded to the barrel so as to fuck up the barrel. Apart from the biggest action recoil lug in the business also by far the most stock material behind the lug. Those Rem 458s after bedding/floating all shot magic with 500 grain Hornady and same with 400 grain Speer loaded to 2000 f/s with around 70 grains of 4064. I still get the creeps when I see a Mauser action with the 223 type recoil lug and very little stock material behind the tiny recoil lug and of course no tang to bed properly. Those same Rem 700s were good in 375 as well. I wonder if Weatherby has ever sold any of their DGRs or Safari rifles in 458 Winchester?? | |||
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I forgot!!! As to the 400 Whelen I put that calibre with the 308, 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor category.....to be purchased as I am getting ready to enter the nursing home | |||
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Mike, That's really good, and a double tap at that. Keep up the good work. How many Kangaroos have you "harvested" with a .458 WinMag? Do they at least use them for dogfood if humans don't eat them? I got lots of good chow for the family from this cow moose, 30 years ago:  Taken with the third .458 WinMag I ever purchased. I think I traded in my Ruger No.1 .458 WinMag for that Remington 700 BDL "Safari" and some cash to boot in 1986. I didn't know any better back then. The Remington Safari was nicely accurate with Ye Olde Original Hornady RNSP .458/500-grainer at 2150 fps MV. It was a bullet that went to pieces on this cow moose, but she dropped as if struck by lightning. The three main bullet fragments, 2 chunks of lead and the empty jacket, each broke a rib on the off-side. Three broken ribs on the off-side, one broken shoulder on the on-side. One .458-caliber entrance hole in the hide. One chest full of blood and mush. It was a spectacularly effective bullet failure. Only 33 years, for me, with the .458 WinMag and it just keeps getting more interesting. Rip . | |||
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How many kangaroos with the 458....like you shooting prairie dogs. Used 400 grain Speer. Leave then where they fall. Remember you are on vast flat ground and in the 4WD. Those early Suzukis and WWII Jeeps with the windscreen down and sand bags were tops. Also good for chasing roos and pigs with a couple of shooters in the back. Best gun for that type of shooting is the SMLE whether in 303 or 303/25. The 30/30 is poor as far to hard to load the magazine while bouncing around in the back. It is interesting if do a lot of shooting in terms of "shots fired" to "hits made" . I have used that 400 grain Speer at 2000 along side the 270 and 300 Winchester and after a day or so you do just as well with the 458 and the 400 grain Speer. Also (I know this will sound ridiculous) those low velocity loads seem to give you some sort of "feel", that is the only way I can describe it. One thing I did find is on pigs the bigger bullet (but similar energy) kills better, the 300 Win with 130/150 grainers being the small and fast. This will be a mixture of chest, guts up the arse and whatever else. Also, more of a measure at the end of the week rather than looking at individual animals. Personally I think high velocity is only a factor in getting bullets to expand fast. But of course you get that same rapid expansion with a slow big bullet like the 400 grain Speer. Assuming bullets expand well I found the 2700-2800 seemed to be the best at least on big roos and pigs. Don't know about bison, elk or other big stuff. In the 60s we used (as did heaps of others) the 218 Imp Bee on the Martini and also M92s and with 50 grain Hornady SX bullets and yes in the tubular magazine. We also used the 303/270 with 100 grainers, they were loaded on the necked down 303 and over the cordite load and very common the 303/25 with 87 grainers at about 2700, similar to 100 grainer in the 303/270. Then we moved on to the 222 and 270 Win and also the 243. They did not kill as well as the others. The best combination of killing power and general spectacle is spotlight shooting with the 378 and those 220 grain Hornady flat noses. | |||
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PS. Some roos from day one are taken back for the dogs of the property owner. As a side note, a real big red roo is a very impressive animal in the spotlight when someone sees them for the first time. | |||
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In an effort to move this thread to 17 pages here is some data with regard to the Barnes TSX. But first the rifle, which you will have to excuse is impropert: Savage 110 7mm mag repurposed with an ER Shaw 458 win mag barrel. Same Tupperware stock with rockite to stiffen the fore end(hogged out with a dremel)and bedded with JB weld. topped with Leupold VX-1 2x7. painted with random left over spray paint - ugly as sin. but it shoots. (low group - .262(3 shot) 100 yds - hornady 480 dgs - unsure of load-looking) (all groups at 100yds) Barnes 350 TSX 77.2 grains H4895 3.44 oal 2416 fps average velocity - .87 3 shot group Barnes 450 TSX 72.0 grains h4895 3.50 oal 2186 fps .612 3 shot group (72.3 ran a 1.062 group, 72.6 ran a 1.812) JRN | |||
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Mike, You might have to ask the Weatherby Custom Shop if you really want one of these in .458 WinMag, which does not seem to be one of their standard offerings:  If you do, let us know. Has Weatherby ever made a switch-barrel system? A DGR .375 Wby and a DGR .458 WinMag would make a nice combo. One would have to decide whether to block the box to 3.6" or leave it 3.8". Either way, the .458 WinMag would shine. If it is more or less a straight-in-line feed in those calibers, funneling up to feed lips, that ought to be pretty reliable. It is a pity that they do not show that DGR model using the Wisner reproduction "African" sight anymore. No brownie points for their latest fashion statement. Rip . | |||
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"General spectacle."  For the Gipper, thanks. Rip . | |||
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Ron, The 458 Win used to be listed. In fact I am sure I saw a couple for sale in Australia, new and cheap. Often importers are forced to take a range of the products and I would imagine the 458 Win in the DGR would be one rare bird. A good combo in the Safari rifle would be the 6.5/300, the 300 and the 375 Wby. Just buy a bunch of 300 brass. To get them to do a 6.5/300 in the Safari would have a price that would make your hair curl and especially if you want the Krieger barrel and action work and select French wood. Basically they have the H&H/Purdey price list in the bottom drawer and just copy those | |||
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