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Nah. Use a .458-caliber 300-grain or 350-grain TSX at 2700 to 2800 fps MV for either bullet weight, from a SAAMI .458 WIN. 2800 fps is fast enough for any DG hunting. Higher velocity than that at impact: Even brass solids bulge. Either of those bullets at 2700 to 2800 fps will "smart" and get the attention of a big cat when it drops dead. BTW, the .458/300-grain TSX at 2800 fps will recoil less than Saeed's .375/404J rifles due to the lesser weight of faster-burning powders used. Just not a long range bullet in the .458 WIN. And of course you do not want to shoot lion and leopard at long range. The .458 WIN is a fantastic lion rifle.  Rip ... | |||
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Please do! And, never forget: Illegitimi non carborundum! Rip ... | |||
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Most EXCELLENT ! Worth repeating ! (Note ALF-style exclamation points.) .458 Win Mag SAAMI: case length 2.500", COL 3.340" for a nose length of 0.840": Use in +3.4" box length, Standard M98, or longer. .458 Win Mag LongCOL: case length 2.500", COL 3.600" for a nose length of 1.100": Use in +3.6" box length, Winchester M70 Classic, or longer. .458 Lott SAAMI: case length 2.800", COL 3.600" for a nose length of 0.800": FORGET ABOUT IT. .450 Watts Mag: case length 2.850", COL 3.700" for a nose length of 0.850": Use in +3.7" box length, opened-up Whitworth Mk X, or longer. .458 W-W Super: case length 2.800", COL 3.800" for a nose length of 1.000": Use in +3.8" box length, True Magnum actions. Rip ... | |||
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Hahahahahahaha! | |||
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At the same time I wonder if Winchester foresaw much wider use by blokes who just like big bangers. Perhaps experience from the 375 H&H. Many years ago I had an account with the sole importer of Hornady bullets into Australia. When a new shipment arrived what stood out was the number of 375 and 458 bullets, including the 300 grain 375s and 500 grain 458s. Let me tell you if only 1% of those bullets were used on Sambar deer or Buffalo, there would be none of them left  | |||
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Good thought. For recoil mitigation, that velocity could be dropped a bit and still exceed that said to be needed for lions. Then you have the big one for even bigger critters, assuming there's time to change ammo. | |||
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RIP, love you ceiling display; reminds me of my ceiling when I was a kid with all the War 1 planes in dogfight scenarios. Your Fokker D7 in the background + what looks like from what little I can see of the one on the left as a 180 Spad w/ the N wing separators. Oh, back to the 458. I had a teenage dream for one years ago + finally bought a couple in my "adulthood?" but I must say that for me personally, I really prefer the 375 H+H. But thats just me. One can't have a real opinion unless he tries them all. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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Thanks RIP, you might recall that I worked out the 30mm scope barrel is not necessarily anything to do with giving more adjustment for long range. This came from noticing Zeiss and B. Nickel at least were using the fat, dural tubes in their variables long before going to image-movement. And, since adjustment in those scopes was meant to be limited to keep the reticle centralised, I believe the extra width was mainly to strengthen the tube. The fixed-power alloy scopes were 1-2mm thicker than the 26mm steel ones and most/all had dovetail rails moulded as part of the dural scope body, which gave additional rigidity as well as provision for mount-anchoring. I don't know whether Bill Hambly-Clark's concern with bent scopes is to do with optical distortion or being strain-free to enhance shot consistency but his insistence that we start with reticles dead centre suggests it may be the former. I hope your CZ does line up well. Maybe I've been spoiled by experience with Sako and Anschutz receivers and barrels that lined up very well. Had the old American rifles of the 1950s been more like that and Kollmorgen and Weaver might have found something better to do with their creative urges  | |||
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So far so good with .458 WIN Bobbarrella CZ-Shilen and the Double-Seyfried-Schtick 2-Piece Picatinny. Gotta pick up the ".458 Winchester The Flanged" Ruger-Pedersoli tomorrow, er uh, later today. Aka .45-100 Sharps Winchester Throat. She is done, and has a 20-MOA tilt to her 1-piece Picatinny mounted on the barrel.  Rip ... | |||
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Great article here: "30-30 Misconceptions Through The Years" The most popular hunting rifle and cartridge combination in history is widely known — and inaccurately understood. The John Browning-designed Winchester Model 94 lever-action in 30-30 Winchester was the first commercial sporting rifle/cartridge that used smokeless gunpowder. This was a huge advancement in firearms technology, but the M94 was not initially chambered in 30-30 ... https://winchester.com/Blog/20...ns-through-the-years Maybe we shall find an article entitled: ".458 Winchester Magnum Misconceptions Through The Years" A Thutty-Thutty bolt action would be great training wheels for a Four-Five-Eight. But of course, what we really need is a lever-action .458 WIN for that cartridge team. Yes, I know about the Browning BLR. It still resides on my wish list. So does the NEMO OMEN in .458 WIN. Rip ... | |||
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NormanConquest, Thank you, but not my ceiling display. I do appreciate your fine tastes in model airplanes. When I was a kid, I had B-58 Hustlers and F-104 Starfighters hanging from my ceiling. Hustler first flew in 1956, same year the .458 WIN took off, another Mach-2 Bomber:  Here is a "Pre-'64" F-104, reminds me of a .458 WIN LongCOL cartridge: Prototypes first flew in 1956 also. What a coincidence !  Thanks again, for supporting THE MISSION. Rip ... | |||
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Give him hell, Mike ! Worth repeating:
Rip ... | |||
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Ron, I once this thread could be an AR central reference thread. We have scopes, scope mounts, cast bullets, paper patch bullets nd a heap of other stuff and now aircraft. Fucking everyone is catered for Another few pages time we are sure to get to necking up 264 or 7mm Rem to the 458 Win and that will produce a heap of information on case forming. Now that we have aircraft I guess ships will get a run. Very informative as well as entertaining thread. Ron, your talents and especially efforts on posting pictures and those old gun book articles are truly appreciated. | |||
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Mike, Buy a buy a donkey ! So they say in Afrikaans. FedEX delivered. Bob is back in the saddle, with plenty of loads to pick from, for his .458 WIN:  He did mention a 300-gr TSX at 2750 fps for filling the wolf tag. Sounds like an excellent "lion load" too. Or bear load. | |||
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Pretty rifle, and she likes to smell the coffee:   | |||
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I am finally in possession of another Ruger No.1 chambered for .45-100 SWT 2.6" aka .458 WIN Flanged. I will get pics of her next, for THE MISSION. For comparison, Bob's .458 WIN Ruger No.1-S Tropical must weigh about 9 pounds with the 24" "tropical" barrel, about 0.810" muzzle diameter. My "new" one has a 28.5" octagon barrel that has no taper, about 1.110" across the flats from breech to muzzle, 1:18" twist. It used to be a Pedersoli .45-70 barrel that was formerly 30" long, on a "Buffalo" Rolling Block. No more. The bare Ruger No.1, now a .45-100 SWT rifle, weighs 11.5 pounds, without scope. That includes a front sight and a Picatinny base on the barrel, with an NECG peep sight, and a custom blob of epoxy on the forearm to serve as a base for mounting a long bipod, for shooting from a sitting position, when making a stand. It is going to be primarily a cast bullet rifle. An M70 with short and skinny barrel of the usual 1:14" twist is also planned, for .458 WIN LongCOL 3.6" for THE MISSION. Could I be foolish enough to convert Bobbarrella to .458 W-W Super? I cried like a baby once, after having foolishly converted a .458 WIN to .458 Lott Like Jack Built ... not really all that horrible. Such a silly thing to do ! Rip ... | |||
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That is some pretty wood, Alf, but I really do prefer the standard lines of the Ruger No.1-S Tropical like Bob has. Thanks for supporting THE MISSION. Rip ... | |||
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Both nice rifles. I just wish I had friends like ALF's. My gunsmith mate has done some neat stuff for me but I doubt he's got walnut like that hanging around. | |||
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Beautiful rifle Alf. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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So do I. Also as to Mike's comment about letting ships into the conversation, everyone knows ships and planes go together, so why not! | |||
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Another RIP quote "Nah. Use a .458-caliber 300-grain or 350-grain TSX at 2700 to 2800 fps MV for either bullet weight, from a SAAMI .458 WIN. 2800 fps is fast enough for any DG hunting." Aha, something else that I can use for those who look down their noses at using lever action rifles for DG!  My .458 MiniMag (45-90/.458 2.4) has taken a leopard with a .458 300 grain Nosler PP at 2200 fps MV; DRT without a twitch. Cat was eating a farmer's goat while lying on soft sand and the sand allowed the expanded bullet to stay inside the the cats hide and be recovered; beautiful expansion. We had loaded the 300 grainers to 2600 fps, but at that velocity they over expanded on the hanging dead sheep used for testing targets. So, I knew the 1886 was a proven ele, buff, and leopard gun and now it has the specs to be a lion gun.  Looking forward to comparing the average specs of a gun for hippo (already know that .454 Casull is all that needed to take a rhino). Please, no comments from snowflakes about a steel crescent butt plate hurting the shooter. That only shows that you do not know how to mount such a rifle. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Thanks for posting RIP. And thanks to RIP for making this all possible -- and in a short time! I'll be loading up those 300 TSXs shortly at around 2750 fps. I'm hopeful of getting to the range next week for sight-in and verification of MV. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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I've got the rifle CR, but it's still in .45-70. I don't suppose a .45-90 reamer could be arranged to screw onto a long range-rod (with muzzle protector) and run from the front end, to save removing the barrel? Anyway, I'm being dragged to the coast for a week, so don't be surprised if I don't contribute for the next few days. | |||
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Sambarman, Yes, the 1886 45-70 can be converted to 45-90 with a little mod to the load mechanism and a chamber extension. Send me a PM upon your return and I will put you in touch with folks that know the details. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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This is great ! Like introducing your dog to a friend's dog. You keep them on short leashes while they bristle and sniff each other's butts. Soon they are playing together nicely. Bob's dog: A pure-bred from Ruger.   Now Bob's dog sniffs this, a mixed-breed with hybrid vigor, nice doggie but not AKC:  https://photos.imageevent.com/...65-388F3C456918.jpeg Rip ... | |||
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Next my new pet dog (Ruger AKC) gets and gives the butt sniffing introduction:  Dog analogy off. Bob's buttstock came from a factory .416 Rigby, STRONG, now on his .458 WIN. The artificial lighting does not do it justice. Alf's is a custom re-do of a .458 WIN. Mine came from a 9.3x74R, now on a .458 WIN Flanged. It looks like a sissy next to Bob's. Rip ... | |||
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The action and buttstock were from same donor 9.3x74R. The forearm is from the same .416 Rigby as Bob's buttstock. The 9.3x74R forearm was too slender to handle the straight octagon barrel used here:  | |||
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That barrel is from a Pedersoli "Buffalo" Remington Rolling Block, .45-70 Gov. The tall Lyman front sight was replaced with a shorter one (Lyman 17AHB 0.404" high). Has a bunch of inserts, aperture, post, bead on post, etc. The sight height of front sight is hoped to be workable with this NECG rear peep for starters:    | |||
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Looking down the barrel at the front sight:  | |||
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 Unlike the outside, the inside of that forearm is a beauty ! GUNSMITH Rusty McGee did a great job of salvaging these parts. Inside the forearm is a full-contact, brown epoxy bedding throughout, except for the hollows needed for the hanger and springs and ejector. That is a form-fitting "half-octagon" recess. There is rigid support for the bipod. Feels good to carry the iron-sighted rifle about with one hand gripping the "palmswell" on the forearm. Rip ... | |||
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A different scope, an oldie-goldie scope on an oldie-goldie-style rifle. That's it ! The rifle's name is official: Goldie Pedersoli-Ruger. Another one of those high falutin' hyphenated names.   The Leupold QRW 1-inch, medium-height rings are same height from top of Picatinny to start of scope tube (0.25") as the Burris Xtreme Tactical 30mm, low-height rings shown next. | |||
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Will break her in gently with 480-ish- and 540-ish-grain bullet weights. Given the choke bore, maybe my old .459"-diameter bullets will work:  | |||
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Since this 10:1 bullet casts at .4595" diameter, it might cast at .4610" diameter in 92:5:2:1 alloy, and in that harder alloy, it might come out at exactly 480 grains with a gas check and double coat of paint ! Whatever works best, I can size these bullets to either .459" or .461" by such methods. Ditto the plain-base versions of similar two weights. I have 98 of these old 10:1 bullets to play with:  I could double-paint these 10:1 bullets and size them with the Lee .460" sizer. They might stay 0.460" that way, or maybe even "spring back" to 0.461" which is what I think happens to the 92:5:2:1 alloy, or the Lee .460" sizer is actually a .461" sizer ? Rip ... | |||
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Excellent idea, to be taken under advisement for THE MISSION. Rip ... | |||
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I have one of those BACO/MIROKU WIN 1886 "Short Rifles" with 20" barrel, but .45-70 Gov. So, come to think of it, I need to try those Lever-action 300-gr TSX too.  Rip ... | |||
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Hi all; New and improved pic on my header, I think... Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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Paul, I went to a wedding yesterday. My excuse for not posting for a day. It was one of those "Dance Little Jean, Today Your Mom is Marrying Your Dad" sorts of affairs. Glorious ! Go get some R&R, for THE MISSION, just be ready to fly and fight or row that boat when you get back. Bob's .45-70 Long Throat comes to mind, if not a full-blown .45-90 for your M-1886. And I need to go slug a BACO/MIROKU M1885 High Wall 125th Anniversary .45-70 Govt. Surely re-chambering that to .458 WIN Flanged will not detract from value. Rip ... | |||
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