The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Homage to Dave Estergaard: 500 Mbogo aka .50-08Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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how about these?         577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Rob, Now that was funny!  RIP,
QuickLoad says this: 2389, 2378, and 2403 for muzzle velocities using 4064, Varget, and Rel 15 respectively. | |||
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rip and the group, we will settle this shortly. I am sending boomie one of my 510KX FL-sized once fired cylindrical Rigby cases. And a Norma and Rigby headstamped 416 cases that have been FL-sized in my die as well, but not expanded up to 50 caliber. He will then be able to report that they are all the friggin' same size with no steenkeen scraper belts. For the rest of you, last summer I posted that I had my 510KX up and shooting (510Wells Express, minus the irritating belt). rip posted that what I had, in fact already accomplished, was not possible, since, according to him, all of the 416 Rigby based cartridges had different sized body diameters and I could not do what I said. Running any of the other cases thru my 510 Wells FL sizer die would create or "scrape" a belt on them. I am still of the opinion that this is NOT something rippy actually tried, but I may be wrong. This is where rip and I parted company, I felt he was in the ivory tower, and I was out doing. Difference of opinion maybe...? So, I am sending boomie a set of cases to examine and measure and ask him to post the results. regards, Rich DRSS | |||
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 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Rich, Send me one of your cases as well. Heck if you do that I will send you one or two of my Norma 416 Rigby cases and you can see if they go through your die OK (they don't in mine). | |||
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Thanks for that, Scott. Could you please tell me what powder charges of IMR-4064, Varget, and RL-15 were "predicted" for those "predicted" velocities at a "predicted" 60,000 psi, from a 24" barrel? "Scrapping" of belts onto my .416 Rigby brass occurs anytime the brass goes anywhere near my 500 A2 dies, so I keep them separated. I sure hope RGB tries out for American Idol with "The Ballad of ScottS." I'd vote for him. | |||
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scrapping something is the act of placing it in the scrap heap. Scraping something is the process where by the thickness is decreased, or unwanted material is removed. IE: I scraped the hide with a moose scapula to remove all of the membrane and bits of flesh or fat from the raw hide. Rich DRSS Semantics is my second career | |||
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RIP, I flipped the 4064 and VARGET muzzle velocities in my last post, sorry.
Here is what QuickLoad says. IMR4064, 105.7 gr for 2378 fps VARGET, 107.5gr for 2389 fps Rel 15, 108.5gr for 2403 fps These would be your MAX loads so reduce by 10% and work up. | |||
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Scott, In the 500A2/.510JAB's I use 110 grains of RL-15 with the 570-grain Barnes XLC and GSC FN bullets. In the 10" twist McGowen stainless barrel of 23" length this gives me 2405 fps and no signs of pressure, and consider that well below a max load. I am using the same type barrel on the 500 Mbogo and should be able to easily better that, with a bigger case. I have a hankering to go with Varget for the 500 Mbogo and will start with 105 grains and work up, using 570-grainers: GSC FN&HV, and Barnes TSX's. I expect somewhere around 115 grains of Varget will be tops. With the 750-grain Hornady A-Max I will start with 105 grains of H4350 Extreme (SC) and work up to +115 grains ... Your QuickLoad is pretty conservative. Definitely on the safe side. Not a bad thing. My barrel can be up to 28" long on a CZ 550 Magnum shop mule. Of course a Satterlee Stainless Magnum Mauser would have to be 24": Serial number SSSMM0001  | |||
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RIP, I doubt that there is a real big difference in usable case volume between the 500 MBOGO and a 500 A2, since the powder kernels will not fit between the case and the bullet shank. Therefore, your volume advantage comes only from the additional 0.1" of case length. An advantage yes, a BIG one no. You did not state what bullet you were using so I used a 570gr A@ dead tough. Your Barnes TSX is considerably LONGER. The loads I posted with the A2 bullet and VARGET were supposed to be ~ 105% of usable case volume. Quickload is usually pretty close with straight walled and nearly straight walled cases (the 500 MBogo would qualify as near straight walled). You can shoot whatever load you feel like, but I would heed the Quickload simulation, as it has been very accurate in my experience. Good luck with your 500 MBogo project. | |||
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thus the idea of the long neck version...2.85" and 2.9????-3" the 2.85" will work on a rum or h+h action and save $1,000 and have the capacity near the 500 a2 500a2 power on a barrel swap and bolt opening. with a 300 rum winchester conversion. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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The 500 Mbogo is blown out at the shoulder also, compared to the 500A2. XLC's and TSX's are .509" GSC's are full diameter but have pressure reducing true driving bands. Harry McGowen's barrels are not undersized in the groove diameter, but work well with the .509's and .510's that I have tried. The way the crimping canelures are on most .510 bullets, the 500A2 ends up with a COAL of about 3.60" insted of 3.75". The 500 Mbogo has .5000" length of parallel-sided freebore that is .5110" in diameter. Etc., etc. ...  | |||
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Ron,
Using the Barnes 570gr TSX and VARGET. QuickLoad says: 101.3gr of VARGET for 2335fps @ 60,050psi with 104.7% case capacity (5% compresses powder charge). I would wager that is pretty close to ulitmate reality. As a reality check I ran a simulation with VARGET and the 600gr A2 Dead Tough in the 500 A2. QuickLoad comes up with 2352fps at 63,306 psi which IS SPOT on with A2 factory ammo (having shot it with strain gages on the barrel and over the chronograph)! I take A2's load data with a grain of salt (it would appear they typoed their pressure data for the 500 A2 as it is closer to CUP than PSI). I have NO doubt you could load a 500 A2 or your 500 Mbogo to ~70 ksi with NO perceptible pressure signs. I only offer this data as a sanity check, and it is more than likely pretty darned close to reality (more so than A2's reloading manual which I have found to contain several "errors" to put it politely). Good luck with your new "cat" and be safe. | |||
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Things that QuickLoad and other programs do not allow for in the pressure predictions: A .509" "smurf-coated" bullet in a .510" barrel. A .510" GSC "magic-band" bullet in a .510" barrel. Rifling land and groove width and diameter effects. Freebore effects. Am I forgetting anything? Of course the primer make can have some effects. And of course twist effects may be there too, but those are negligible in the range of 15" down to 10" twists. | |||
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ron, you set the "Starting" pressure, from shape and or "friction proofing" quickload, which i use and like, is not amazlingly accurate in straight or near straight cases jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Oh yeah, I forgot the near-straight-case thing. Thanks, jeffeosso. | |||
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As you were before all the pollution started:
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Dr. Berry, I am interested in working up my own "cat". Is there reference material that you can recommend I read or is "catting" an on-the-job-training education? I realize you have no money  , but hope you can spare some advice  Thanks  | |||
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http://www.z-hat.com/Wildcat%20Book.htm 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Thanks boom stick. | |||
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Yep, great reference as is Dr. Ken Howell's CUSTOM CARTRIDGES You will be broke soon too. | |||
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Dr. Berry, I'm already broke, so no worries Just trying to keep some spare shells in the bag. | |||
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