quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Gatehouse,

You really do mean to tell me you are ok with people talking trash to you on the internet?

Things must be different where you come from...


regards,


Rich
DRSS

Rich,

I know you are addressing Gates, but if I may...

Gatehouse is a mod on another hunting forum website and has been a contributor here for almost as long as me (except for his recent year-long hiatus ). So he has "been around" the 'net for a while.

Like many lessons in life, there are some basic truths about the internet that some people either a) pick up on right away, b) eventually figure out, or c) just never ever get. The internet is a foreign method of communication to many, in that it has evolved to be much, much different than other forms of personal communication.

Most of the time you don't have a clue who you are talking to, and you probably never will.

It could be that the big, burly guy that just insulted your momma, is actually a pimple faced teenager that is just jerking your chain. Every time they get a rise out of you, you give them exactly what they want.

You also have to remember that, unless you are somebody like Craig Boddington posting on here, the vast majority of people that read this stuff don't know who you are and really don't care.

I know you are familiar with the old saw about wrestling with pigs....you both get covered in pig sh*t, and the pig likes it, etc. Always keep that in mind on the internet cuz it is more true than anywhere else.

If you find someone is jerking your chain, make your point for all to read and move on. If you think someone's an a55hole, ignore them.

Who comes to these sites to argue? The vast minority I assume. Most of us have precious little free time and don't need to fill it with stressful activities like arguing with nameless, faceless jerks on the internet that you'll likely never meet in person anyway.

Internet communication is not the same as other forms of personal communication and it probably never will be. Treating it like it is will likely just give you hypertension.

Gatehouse is a smart guy and learned all this YEARS ago. Its got nothing to do with protecting ones honor and everything to do with getting some value (learning, meeting some good people with similar interests and values) from the 'net and minimizing the downside. That being said, if someone were to attempt to denigrate or humiliate him in person, I suspect he'd pop their head like a fresh pea.

Just my real quick 2c Canadian,
Canuck

Canuck - excellent post, thanks


KMule

thanks, I guess I needed to hear that from someone with some standing to get it thru my thick skull.
It does seem foreign coming from my background, but a while to sift thru it and I did find that nugget of wisdom/truth you delivered me.

I will work on it, and besides there's always the fall Cattleman's Dance in Orianna coming up in October...

Thank you, and you as well Gatehouse...

I do greatly enjoy this forum, I probably spend more time here than anywhere else on the net.

My apologies for any issues I may have over reacted to. The internet is a strange place, to be sure. Create your own identity and a persona of who you would like to be instead of who you are...functional pseudo-schizophrenia at it's very best.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

Good post Canuck

He said pretty much how I feel...

Life is too short to get worked up about or give a shit about what people that you will never meet think about you.

It's surely too short to be jetting around, engaging in duels with people do to some intraweb name calling.

I ignore morons in real life, may as well do it here, too.



.

No prob Rich.

Also keep in mind that I was speaking generally about internet squabbles and not about anyone or any squabble specifically.

There are plenty of good reasons to have heated debates on the internet, but my take-home-message was that there is seldom good reason to take things too personally on the 'net.

[BTW, Rich, as an aside -- I do completely understand about "not taking a backward step" in real life....I grew up in a small northern community that was about 50% First Nations, and my old man was a LEO...trust me, being a "cop's kid" -- especially in a situation like that -- teaches you to stand your ground!. Had my fair share of "set-to's", and have a crooked shnoz to prove it...before I learned to quit leading with it! LOL]

Re: "functional pseudo-schizophrenia at it's very best"....yep, that about sums it up. The array of personalities, both authentic and contrived, is literally staggering. Weeding through that to find some real good people can be tough, but we have no shortage of them here. I have met some of my best freinds in real (as opposed to cyber-) life on this very website...so the effort is worth it.

Don't forget that a lot of this goes on too ...



So I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, even if I get to thinking they are an a55hole I would never want to meet in real life.

Cheers,
Canuck

So what twist was determined to be best for the 500 Mbogo?

Pegleg,

you need to put that back in the box, NOW!!!!!!!

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
So what twist was determined to be best for the 500 Mbogo?

Pegleg,
Thanks for playing Tonto on twist, so that I may play Kimosabi.

My 500 Mbogo will have a 1:10" twist, though I would see nothing wrong with a 1:12" twist for slow-poke bullets up to 750-grains from the 500 Mbogo.

However the 500 Mbogo might be capable of moving the 800 to 850 Grainers at 2150 fps and for that new ground in a sporting weight rifle, I want a 10" twist.

Lest we get RGB inflamed over this, I must say I think a 1:15" twist is perfect for a 50 BMG because of its higher muzzle velocity and higher RevsPerSec for a given twist.

HI HO SILVER! AWAY!

quote:

[BTW, Rich, as an aside -- I do completely understand about "not taking a backward step" in real life....I grew up in a small northern community that was about 50% First Nations, and my old man was a LEO...trust me, being a "cop's kid" -- especially in a situation like that -- teaches you to stand your ground!. Had my fair share of "set-to's", and have a crooked shnoz to prove it...before I learned to quit leading with it! LOL]

Cheers,
Canuck

Haw haw.. I thought your nose was bent!

Thankfully, I am out of the age range that makes idiots want to "prove' themselves with me.

Although, i did have to knock out a 25 year old muscle head ..While i generally laugh things off these days, certain things I can't tolerate, and one of them is getting abrasive with one of the gals at work.

Good thing for me, he was pretty drunk and thought that flexing his biceps would make me run away...

500 Mbogo has as much case body taper as the 500 Schuler/Jeffery.

500 Mbogo has a base to shoulder height that is greater than the .505 Gibbs.

500 Mbogo has a 35-degree shoulder semi-angle, .505 Gibbs is about 37 degrees.

Using a combination of 470 Mbogo, 500 Jeffery, and .505 Gibbs reloading dies, it is easy to make shootable 500 Mbogo ammo, but of course a source for dedicated 500 Mbogo reloading dies must be established.

HI HO SILVER AWAY!

Or in keeping with the previous theme of this thread:

YO MAMA SILVER GIDDYUP!

RIP,

not to start a fuss or anything, but why not just run the brass thru a 510 Wells FL sizer? It will give you a basic sized/formed case that you could fire form in the chamber. The Wells neck is .430" long, so by adding your additional .100" case length into the equation you would have a neck .530" long and be good to load. The shoulder angle will blow out when you fire the round.

Just thinking how you can accomplish this task easier.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

Sheesh, RIP...are you going to keep dragging us back on topic? (to the death of this thread!)

I have to first comment back to my friend Gates that most of the non-symmetry (sounds better than crookedness) in my schnoz is from a tangle it had with the top of an 80 foot tree that smoked me right across my face...but that's another, long story. On reflection, my nose has led a more interesting life that I would have liked.

OK, OK...thanks for indulging me RIP...back to the 500 Mbogo...

The case trivia is very interesting. Did you ever compare the gross case capacity of water in grains for the jeffery, gibbs, A2 and mbogo??? I thought I saw it somewhere but am not sure.

Cheers,
Canuck

Back on topic??

Okay, I suppose we've had enough fun for one thread.

I think everyone NEEDS a 500 Mbogo. Or at least needs to shoot one.

quote:

I think everyone NEEDS a 500 Mbogo. Or at least needs to shoot one.

It truly is a brain rattling good time.

Dave sold me his 500 A-square a few months back, so anytime you wanna take a ride on the freight train (600gr at 2450), just look me up. I'll supply the beer and kicks (oh yeah, maybe not ALL the beer! ).

ps: we can invite my friend J_T too, and talk bows, x-bows, etc. (I really should pay more attention at HBC, eh?)

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
RIP,

not to start a fuss or anything, but why not just run the brass thru a 510 Wells FL sizer? It will give you a basic sized/formed case that you could fire form in the chamber. The Wells neck is .430" long, so by adding your additional .100" case length into the equation you would have a neck .530" long and be good to load. The shoulder angle will blow out when you fire the round.

Just thinking how you can accomplish this task easier.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

RIP, quoting Rich's constructive comments so you can read them (assuming you still have him on ignore).

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,
When I run 470 Mbogo brass (or .416 Rigby of any make I have) into 500 A2 dies it scraps/scrapes a pseudo-belt onto the case and trashes it.

All I have to do to fire form a 500 Mbogo is either:

A) fire a 470 Mbogo load of any kind in the 500 Mbogo, with no preliminary brass maneuvers

or

B) seat a 50 BMG ball of 640 grains backwards in the 470 Mbogo, which produces a neck-up to .510 and a plinking load with the milsurp bullets flying backwards

The .505 Gibbs and 500 Jeffery dies serve only for fine tuning the necking and crimping of already-fire-formed 500 Mbogo brass, until proper dies are had.

The "scrapping" of brass was what started this black pot simmering over a year ago.

I stand by the facts of my in-spec brass and dies.

Canuck, you are not helping with your latest post.

quote:

The "scrapping" of brass was what started this black pot simmering over a year ago.

I stand by the facts of my in-spec brass and dies.

Canuck, you are not helping with your latest post.

Only intended it to be helpful. Assumed you would choose not to address Rich's post if you thought it would just be

In all honesty, I never followed the minutiae of the debate from last year, and don't as a result know the fine differences in specs for the cartridge variants - both in terms of chambers and dies, brass mfger's, etc, etc, etc.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,
Very well then.
500 A2: less than 150 grains
500 Mbogo: about 150 grains
500 Jeffery: about 160 grains
505 Gibbs: about 180 grains

... just off the top of my head.

And the list goes on and on..........


50 BMG 250 Grains
50 Fat Mac 300 Grains
50/20 Bubba 600 Grains
50 Bushmaster 2500 Grains oops thats 50mm...oh well

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Canuck,
Very well then.
500 A2: less than 150 grains
500 Mbogo: about 150 grains
500 Jeffery: about 160 grains
505 Gibbs: about 180 grains

... just off the top of my head.

495 A2 133gr
500 AR 131gr

methinks the more efficient 500 a.r. will make up for the 2 grain diff in performance

what are the best bolt 50's???

how would you rate these in order???

500 ahr
500 a2/495 a2
500 buhmiller/mbogo/K.E./P.H.
500 a.r.
500 jeffery
510-505 gibbs
510 max (belted rum case)
12.7x76??? (for the mm impared 76 mm is 3")

the below one is an alterd version that i like better...the pic below is the original.


that 12.7x76 looks neeto...could it be done on an enfield???

kinda like a 308 on steroids...

In keeping with the original fun spirit and intent of the thread, I offer a visual (and audio) reminder of the great entertainment value these 500's can provide.

Following is a previously unreleased clip from our Western Canada AR Big Bore Shoot -- Spring '07 (just got a codec issue "worked around" a short while ago)...



Cheers,
Canuck

sweet ride, those 50's
So, the difference between the 500A2 and the proposed 500 Mbogo is the loss of the belt and a few grains of powder capacity ?

What other benefits exist?

Come on boomie, build one

quote:

Originally posted by KMuleinAK:


sweet ride, those 50's
So, the difference between the 500A2 and the proposed 500 Mbogo is the loss of the belt and a few grains of powder capacity ?

What other benefits exist?

Come on boomie, build one

there is my idea of the beltless 500 a2...its like rich's idea of using 510 wells dies and rigby brass but my idea was to take the belt off a2 brass and use a2 dies and take the belt off the reamer.

but like i said...there is no need for a short neck on rigby/a2 brass since it does not add much capacity thus my long neck P.H. idea.

i would not do the 600@ 2400 but 600@ 2200

right now swaging a belt on the rum case and doing a barrel swap on an H+H or rum gun is a neet idea to me although i like all the ideas for special reasons.

Ah have to say, I've had fun from time to time pulling RIP"S chain. For the most part he likes it too! The PIPE wrench twist remover was flat hysterical and frankly I nearly peed my pants at some of the comments. However, The "bats at dawn" definately got carried away though. I have to admit Cannuck is right and internet personalities are unpredictable. In real life that boy can DRINK, shoot too and even speaks a form of english that I can understand! Most of us are even more fun in real life than we are on the internet!
With that said, WGAF, We all like things that go bang and every now and then a really good idea gets born. Lighten-up, its all bullshit until you face ol MBOGO at 10 feet with your 500 ( anything) and it goes CLICK! Now thats a problem! Chill-out have some fun, take your anger out on ScottS. Call it a good day!-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Most of us are even more fun in real life than we are on the internet!

Not me. In person, I am very small, meek and quiet, and only sip an occasional wine cooler.

I have never tried beer.

Yah!
and you don't like girls either! I ain't buying any of that cosmic far northern poop!



Rich
DRSS

quote:

that 12.7x76 looks neeto...could it be done on an enfield???

kinda like a 308 on steroids...

Mr. Stick

This is a BMG short. The rim diameter is .804". Not sure which Enfield would handle that?

Better to take the full length case and blow it out to 8 Bore otherwise it's just another low velocity 50. The standard full length BMG is not exactly a Hotrod.

I believe SSK has done about every iteration possible of the BMG case except 8 Bore.

Maybe I'll do one........

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

that 12.7x76 looks neeto...could it be done on an enfield???

kinda like a 308 on steroids...

Mr. Stick

This is a BMG short. The rim diameter is .804". Not sure which Enfield would handle that?

Better to take the full length case and blow it out to 8 Bore otherwise it's just another low velocity 50. The standard full length BMG is not exactly a Hotrod.

I believe SSK has done about every iteration possible of the BMG case except 8 Bore.

Maybe I'll do one........

maybe rebate it a tad to fit the bolt better...

single shot with bmg bullets for target and shoot hunting bullets damn fast...

From my notes:

505 Gibbs 178.5 gr +/1
500 A Square 142.2 gr +/1
500 Jeffery 153 gr to 156 gr (range to cover different brands, Bertram being the smallest
500 AHR 162.1 gr

Just for kicks even though it ain't a 50, the 460WM is 137 gr

Still think the 500 Mbogo is a solution looking for a problem, but this is only my opinion. The important thing is that it makes you happy.

oh, nevermind

quote:

Just for kicks even though it ain't a 50, the 460WM is 137 gr

How does a case which is loaded to 125 grains have 137 grain empty capacity?

Fact check on Aisle 460 please........

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

How does a case which is loaded to 125 grains have 137 grain empty capacity?

Fact check on Aisle 460 please........

Sounds a bit small to me too.
I don't have access to my brass to actually measure some fireformed stuff for gross water capcity at the moment. You will surely find numbers all over the place on the internet and from various tabulations of these things.

Ought to be able to nail this one down pretty securely as there is only one make of this brass to consider, that made by Norma for Weatherby in .460 Weatherby Magnum.

Why the 500 Mbogo?
It is mainly just cool, a better design than the 500 A2, and will do a little bit more than the 500 A2, although the 500 A2 is also capable of equaling or surpassing the .505 Gibbs.

The 500 Mbogo is a far better cartridge than either the 500 Schuler/Jeffery or .505 Gibbs for many reasons. Nostalgia does not count with me.

This thread does have some legs, thanks to all involved, miscreant and otherwise.

Use really light (specific gravity) high bulk powder maybe. The neck capacity is 18 grains water by itself.

I had 100 460 Weatherby mag cases. I measured capacity on a random sample of 10. They ranged from 137.1 to 138.2, so my previous post was somewhat in err (by about .5 grains).

Not sure how you get 125gr of powder (unless it is more dense than water) into a 460 Weatherby case, never tried. My MkV got sticky bolt at around 118gr of 4350, which was a mightily compressed load behind a 500gr pill!

My 460 brass has now ALL been recycled to 500 A2, which measures around the 141 to 142 range (granted it is about .010" short).

The Ballad of ScottS- SUNG TO THE TUNE OF RAWHIDE!

Trollin, Trollin, Trollin
Keep that Bullshit Rollin
Never STOP that Trollin
ScottS
You'll never understand em
Just RAM, BAM AND SCAM em
Soon they'l just bang their heads and DIE

Makeitup,stir the pot, spread the crap,be a Jerk
THEN YOU CAN Meltdown once AGAIN!

Without a conversation, or real compensation
ScottS can always claim to disappear again

So lets not mistake- em or try to remake- em
This Turd will surface once again!
ScottS

...anyone got a photo of a merry-go-round...?