fb168,

Sounds interesting, are you working along the same lines as JeffeOsso, 'catting a case to feed in standard actions? How long OAL, and any idea of powder capacity? Sounds like a bit more practical than mine if you can get the kind of speed Jeff is talking.

My issue with rip-off isn't what he is doing, it's that he is crowing from the weathervane like the first rooster to see the sun. There are only two basic variations on a Rigby/Wbee case in a fifty caliber. One is the 510 Wells Express using the Wbee case and headspacing on the belt. I don't like belts on rifle cases, so I chose to have a reamer cut without the belt...case dimensions are identical to the Wells and if you read all of my posts you will see that I GAVE CREDIT to Wells. I did not claim anything except the notion of using the Mast Technology, now Jamison Intl, Rigby cylindrical basic brass. From my first last spring post rip-off has been
fuming about something. He's much more subtle than I am...you know where you stand with me pretty quick.
Here he is, more than a year after photos of my "Duct Tape Special" appeared here claiming some originality and "special-ness" with a case that will mirror mine. Grab a 416 Rigby case and take the mike to it. There isn't any room for original thinking left there.

I gotta run, my wife is delivering a keynote address at some conference in Minneapolis and she needs to be at the airport in an hour.

Hope this clears up any misconceptions rip-off and I have caused. It's just a matter of credit where credit is due.

regards,

Rich
DRSS
first 500-416R of 2006

Let's see.

IdahoSharpshooter is definitely deeply into MELTDOWN! How about I send IdahoSharpshooter some Norma 416 Rigby cases that ARE TO SPECIFICATION for him to run through his full length sizing die. If they do not get scrapped (I mean scraped) on belts we will KNOW that his sizing die(s) are oversized (or he simply turned them back up one full turn in which case the scraped on belt disappears).

Jeffeosso, has once AGAIN been caught posting WRONG information, and is back to quoting posts OUT OF CONTEXT!

Jeffeosso, do you really really think people cannot read? You must since many of your out of context quotes are only a post or three away from the mis-quoted statement.

I guess Jeffeosso is suffering from MELTDOWN also. Sad isn't it.

My problem is the utter BS that is being spewed by these two Jeffeosso and IdahoSharpshooter). As far as AR is concerned the credit rightly belongs to Dave, just like RIP said.

I am pretty sure someone on this thread is going to claim they invented smokeless propellent soon...

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
Let's see.

IdahoSharpshooter is definitely deeply into MELTDOWN! How about I send IdahoSharpshooter some Norma 416 Rigby cases that ARE TO SPECIFICATION for him to run through his full length sizing die. If they do not get scrapped (I mean scraped) on belts we will KNOW that his sizing die(s) are oversized (or he simply turned them back up one full turn in which case the scraped on belt disappears).

Jeffeosso, has once AGAIN been caught posting WRONG information, and is back to quoting posts OUT OF CONTEXT!

Jeffeosso, do you really really think people cannot read? You must since many of your out of context quotes are only a post or three away from the mis-quoted statement.

I guess Jeffeosso is suffering from MELTDOWN also. Sad isn't it.

My problem is the utter BS that is being spewed by these two Jeffeosso and IdahoSharpshooter). As far as AR is concerned the credit rightly belongs to Dave, just like RIP said.

Hear hear! Hear here! HERE HERE!

can this thread be about big bores

quote:

Posted 01 August 2007 21:17 Hide Post
I am pretty sure someone on this thread is going to claim they invented smokeless propellent soon...

Gatehouse - my grandpappy worked for Dupont........does that count?

Wait????! What did i miss? did someone try to NOT pay homage to Dave for a 3" 510xmbogo case (technically a unique case, as you can't make spec mbogo from anything else) ??

Hell, Dave is the reason I got into making bigbore wildcats.. a prince of a guy, a darn fine shot, and a great hunting buddy...

jeffe

Guys- This thread deserves to Die! Total waste of time.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Guys- This thread deserves to Die! Total waste of time.-Rob

I agree.
The next 500 Mbogo thread will hopefully not be polluted by the foul wind.

Let this one die.

where is the alleged inventor of this 50 on a Rigby 416? Why don't we hear from him? John Buhmiller was thinking/talking" about this in the fifties fer'crissakes! Here's what John Buhmiller had to say in an article he wrote for Issue Number One of Handloader magazine, the May-June issue of 1966. Fascinating reading for those who want to really know who, and when, the cartridge we are discussing here came about.

Quote: "...Later, when I was dragged in elephant control on a strip of land...Rift Wall...I found it an advantage to have greater magazine capacity that is possible with the .505(which he used up thru 1956). In 1957 I used two rifles very successfully, one a .450 Magnum made by necking the Norma 300 Magnum (300H&H) cylindrical unformed brass, using regular .458 bullets. It was mounted on a Brevex Magnum action...six loads in the magazine plus one in the barrel, and quite often I'd empty that gun and grab a loaded .458 (other wildcat) from my gun bearer... As a second gun I made up another .45 caliber by necking up the 378 Wbee case to 45. So far as I know this was the first gun of its kind, it was later called the .460 caliber and is now a regular factory product... My 475 Magnum...was made by slightly necking down the Norma brass (300 cylindrical) to take the Kynoch .470 Nitro Express bullet, which measures .474"... I also made up another wildcat using the 570-grain .510" diameter bullet that is made for the .500 Nitro Express double rifle...90 grains of 3031 was OK in the 50.".

For several years I owned one of two or three 450 Magnum rifles Buhmiller build after discovering the Rigby case. He told me Roy had taken that case and created his 378Wbee by adding a belt and the goofy shoulder. John mentions in the above quote that Wbee had taken his design and Wbee-ified it to create the 460Wbee in the early 'sixties.
John opted to then go to his supplier at Norma and buy a large quantity of 416 and 300 Magnum cylindrical for his 450 (second model, without the belt), 475 and 500 Magnums. He said that he was surprised that Roy Wbee did not have him build a 475 or 500 prototype for them like he had the 460Buhmiller/Wbee.

So where does that leave rip and his side-kick scotts with the claim (and back up) of honoring somebody who may have had a few thoughts about someday or not doing a 50 on the 416 Rigby...?

Answer: in the same boat as this Lott guy who took Buhmiller's idea of 1956 for a .458/300cylindrical magnum now known as the 458 Lott.
There's plenty of company for one more oarmen, the dolt who "borrowed" Buhmiller's 475/300cylindrical Magnum and named it after Capstick, who didn't even ever shoot or handle or even hear about one. His name was just used by Winchester as a marketing ploy.

ScottS: you are continually in trouble here for taking the "wrong side" in discussions and hyperbole on future creations.
Here is your golden opportunity to be a man, and just post "...I didn't know all of the history and I was mislead by rip-off... I apologize for my ignorance.".
There's nothing wrong with admitting ignorance of a particular subject man, it's as easy as saying "I didn't know, now I do.".
Those two can sit across from rip-off and scotts with their lame-azz claim to fame of doing a 50 on the 416 Rigby cylindrical case.

Heck, I'm ignorant on thousands of subjects, I'll admit it. I can only speak three languages well enough to understand and be understood, and you do not want me operating on you past pulling a splinter out of you or putting a bandaid on it. I still don't quite understand....never mind. Public disclosure can be wonderful; until it leads to indecent exposure...

regards,

Rich
DRSS

rip-off,

in case you missed it, you are still a liar and a thief, and Dave Westergaard (spelling?) has not come forward to substantiate your spurious claim.
Next time tell us how the Mauser brothers stole your idea for a rifle action that utilizes the same principle as the european-style door latches. Try and convince anybody here that you had any original thoughts here.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

I figured it out!!! rip-off is just befuddled!

AHR does have a 50-caliber rifle in their lineup...the 500 AHR is a modified 500 Jeffries (Jefferies?). Their website shows no other 50-caliber chamberings as of this afternoon. Tried to call, but nobody was home.

So rip-off, you might just be stoopid! Hear Hear, here here.

Personally: I'm still more comfortable with the "LIAR & THIEF" ...but here's your out.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

quote:

and Dave Westergaard (spelling?) has not come forward to substantiate your spurious claim.

Just in the interest of accuracy, and since I consider Dave a very good friend....

Dave Estergaard (aka 470 Mbogo on this site...see www.470mbogo.com , although I am sure you already have) did mock up a 500 Mbogo dummy a LONG time ago (if late '90s or so qualifies as a LONG time to you...it does to me). As jeffe mentioned above, he even gave one to him in '03 or '04, when Dave went to Texas for a pig hunt/bubba shoot. Dave did NOT build a rifle in 500 Mbogo, or even order a reamer, etc, as he had a 500 A-square which filled that role already.

He has talked about making a 358 Mbogo, or 358 APG (African Plains Game), for thumping what else but plains game. Can I claim "air cart e-dibs" on his behalf with this post??

Dave developed the 470 Mbogo in the mid-90's and used it in Tanzania to shoot 3 buffalo in 1998.

RIP, I believe this came up once before but I can't find the old thread...it seems to me that Dave and Saeed were making their respective .475/416 Rigby Improved's at almost the same time, and that Saeed may have only been a year or two ahead of Dave (like '94ish). Not that either one of _them_ really care.

Cheers,
Canuck

Rich,

Thank you for the highly informative post regarding Mr. Buhmiller's work with Weatherby cases back in the 50's. I most certainly agree with you that Mr. Buhmiller should receive credit for the 500 Weatherby magnum wildcat and possibly as the conceptual father of the 510 Wells and 500 A2 cartridges as well.

I also agree with RIP, that as far as the AR forums are concerned, (key words AR forums) that Dave gets credit for the 500 Mbogo. Which is NOT based upon a Weatherby magnum case. Your project came about, as far as I can tell, after Dave had done the initial concept.

For the record, the Weatherby mag ISN'T simply a Rigby with a belt. The base diameters between the two cartridges are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT.
As a matter of FACT the 416 Rigby case will not chamber in MY 500 A2.

I do give you full credit for building your 51KX (that is the correct name, isn't it?) before anyone actually has built a 500 Mbogo. Although , to this day I still do not understand how you can full length size 416 Rigby cylindrical brass (provided said brass is to spec) in a 510 Wells die (again provide said die is to spec).

quote:

358 Mbogo

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
i hereby do claim the long neck 500/416 rigby...
the 500 P.H.

3/4" neck and the rest pretty much the same.

not much point in having a short neck with long shank bullet usng the 510 bullet and the 416 rigby case.

there will only be about 10 thou between the bullet and the case body if the shank goes beneath the shoulder anyway.



when i am rich i can make one.

i think it is the being unique that makes this fun not realy the performance since they will be pretty much the same that regard.

again...no point on having a short neck 500 on the rigby case if the shank and case wall will be only 10 thou apart...

long live the 500 P.H. with its 3/4" neck

600 grain woodleigh

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
RIP, I believe this came up once before but I can't find the old thread...it seems to me that Dave and Saeed were making their respective .475/416 Rigby Improved's at almost the same time, and that Saeed may have only been a year or two ahead of Dave (like '94ish). Not that either one of _them_ really care.
Cheers,
Canuck

What a wacky concept....

quote:

Quote: "...Later, when I was dragged in elephant control on a strip of land...Rift Wall...I found it an advantage to have greater magazine capacity that is possible with the .505(which he used up thru 1956). In 1957 I used two rifles very successfully, one a .450 Magnum made by necking the Norma 300 Magnum (300H&H) cylindrical unformed brass, using regular .458 bullets. It was mounted on a Brevex Magnum action...six loads in the magazine plus one in the barrel, and quite often I'd empty that gun and grab a loaded .458 (other wildcat) from my gun bearer... As a second gun I made up another .45 caliber by necking up the 378 Wbee case to 45. So far as I know this was the first gun of its kind, it was later called the .460 caliber and is now a regular factory product... My 475 Magnum...was made by slightly necking down the Norma brass (300 cylindrical) to take the Kynoch .470 Nitro Express bullet, which measures .474"... I also made up another wildcat using the 570-grain .510" diameter bullet that is made for the .500 Nitro Express double rifle...90 grains of 3031 was OK in the 50.".

i like the idea of propper credit going to the inventor of the lott and capstick i will now call them the 450 jb and 470 jb

quote:

Originally posted by Gatehouse:

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
RIP, I believe this came up once before but I can't find the old thread...it seems to me that Dave and Saeed were making their respective .475/416 Rigby Improved's at almost the same time, and that Saeed may have only been a year or two ahead of Dave (like '94ish). Not that either one of _them_ really care.
Cheers,
Canuck

What a wacky concept....

The foul wind blows out of Idaho. Is that wacky tabacky he is smoking?

Note the disrespect for Dave Estergaard by this cretin, quoted above feigning misspelling of the name, like he never heard of the 470 Mbogo or Dave Estergaard. That is dishonest, but very petty dishonesty, serving his purpose of attention seeking and disruption.

I had to click off the ignore function and look back to scan enough (wasting little time and taking none of it seriously) to see some of The Idaho Zephyr's ignorance.

The Idaho Zephyr should be informed that Fred Barnes did the "450 Barnes Supreme" before the other .458's by Watts, Buhmiller, Ackley, Lott ...

The Idaho Zephyr blows a continuous stream of cerebral flatulance, and expects us to find it amusing?

Truly a waste of time and bandwidth. A train wreck for rubber neckers. Idaho Zephyr meltdown for sure.

If you don't stop this I'm gonna leave Forever!-ScottS

I agree with Rob enough already! Stop it, or I will be forced to leave.

Buhmiller built a 500/378Wbee first in 1956-57, and in 1959 or 1960 built several 45 and 475 and 50 caliber rifles using the 416 Rigby basic case. Do not know if he was able to get them from Norma as a cylindrical case or formed, but he built and sold rifles in all three calibers. That puts him waaaaaaaay ahead, like 35+ years on anyone else.

I admire the M'bogo series, but if they came out after 1960 they were copies or at least patterned after John Buhmiller's designs. I am not denigrating Mr Westergaard here, he does marvelous work; and I am certain would give the profs to John if he were aware of his earlier work. They were both in Montana, and it would be hard not to have heard of John's big guns. Ackley also credits John Buhmiller is his books for being the first to actually do anything with the big Rigby case.

John Buhmiller also built the first known "Bull Pup" rifle and used it to win the 1936 Montana State 1000 yard matches. Enfield P17 in 300H&H. He shot well enough at Camp Perry that year to have the design outlawed.
Ben Comfort's rifle was IIRC, built by John. Elmer Keith also credits John as a master gunsmith and a fierce competitor. Keith shot against him for several years regionally, and at Camp Perry. He also made some very fine barrels for several decades.

As far as any real-world differences between the 378/460 Wbee and the Rigby case, aside from the belt and goofy shoulder there isn't any. From about the late 'sixties for a decade or two 416 Rigby brass was very hard to come by. Several people, myself included made our 416 and 450 cases from Wbee with the belt turned off. If a FL sizer die can turn 460 Wbee into 378 Wbee with one stroke of a good press like my RCBS A4 it can certainly turn any 416R-based beltless case into any other.

ScottS,
ask JeffeOsso what he is making his 500AR cases from? I have once or more fired 510KX cases made from 378 and 460 Wbee with the belt turned off (I did take advantage of the 510 Wells Express die to FL size them first before ditching the belts)but I have Rigby headstamped 416 Rigby brass, Norma headstamped 416 Rigby, Mast 416R cylindrical (which is what I sent JeffeOsso in January) and a handful of Jamison Intl cylindrical Rigby basic and they all got lubed with Imperial Sizing Die Wax and came out perfect. They all got loaded and shot, and they all mike within .001" according to my gunsmith. I do not know what else to say, except THEY WORK!! The dies are off-the-shelf from CH4D and they work on all brands and headstamps!


Rich
DRSS

And rip-off is still the only one here not man enough to admit he was in error.

PS: Dave Kiff cut the reamers to 510 Wells Express print specifications, and my 510KX is exactly that, minus the irritating belt. So, all brass should fit. A couple of thousandths here or there does not enable a case to say no to Mister A4!

Rich
DRSS

Rich,

You are using an "off the shelf" set of CH4D 510 Wells full length sizing dies, correct?

Yes.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I admire the M'bogo series, but if they came out after 1960 they were copies or at least patterned after John Buhmiller's designs. I am not denigrating Mr Westergaard here, he does marvelous work; and I am certain would give the profs to John if he were aware of his earlier work. They were both in Montana, and it would be hard not to have heard of John's big guns. Ackley also credits John Buhmiller is his books for being the first to actually do anything with the big Rigby case.

(insert sound of "wrong buzzer" )

Again, for clarity....its Estergaard, and he ain't from Montana. He's a Canuck. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd never heard of John Buhmiller's work before. I don't believe I had heard of Buhmiller until I heard it here. The odds of Dave's design being a copy of, or patterned after, John Buhmiller's work are about nil.

Art Alphin John Lazzeroni (finally caught my brainfart on a re-read this AM) on the other hand, might have known about it when he made the 12.04 BIBAMUFU, which of course is WAY different than the Rigby case , and came much later than Saeed or Dave's efforts, if that matters...





Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,
Quoting the prevaricatory emissions of the Idaho Zephyr is a stinky job, but his flatus should not pass without a trip through the gas scrubber, so thank you for your vigilance.

I suspect Idaho Zephyr knows as much about Buhmiller as he has read in the P.O. Ackley manual, Vol. I.

But, the Idaho Zephyr has such poor reading comprehension that he cannot even keep it straight that Buhmiller was using the .378 Weatherby case, not the .416 Rigby case, for his up-necking. The Wby case is a shrunken Rigby with a belt and a rebated rim.

Dave's case is indeed unique, longer than the .416 Rigby by .045", and it is as blown out and improved as can be had with sure functioning on the Rigby case head. The 500 Mbogo continues that progression by another .055" of case length, by adding length to the neck.

The .510/570-grain bullets are stubbier than the .475/500-grain bullets, shorter nose section, so max COAL is still the same as the 470 Mbogo (3.750").

The Lazzeroni 12.04 BIBAMUFU case max diameters:
rim: .577"
head: .577"


The Mbogo/Rigby max rim = .590" and max head = .589"

Necking the 12.04 BIBAMUFU up to .510 caliber would result in a shoulder exactly like the Idaho Zephyr has on his cartridge: 12 thousandths of an inch and 30-degrees per side. Lazzeroni said it wouldn't work.

See Canuck's boxed 12.04 BIBAMUFU report above.

The pompous, self-serving A-hole may now pass some more gas.

Don gas mask.

Now the Great Liar & rip-off artiste presumes to list my contacts over the past thirty years. I expedcted you might be a voyeur, but had hoped you confined your peeping to members of the opposite sex...

I visited John Buhmiller in his shop three or four times before his death. He initially built his big bores on Wbee brass, but due some "misunderstandings" he switched to the Rigby case very early on. That is a matter of record, not just my statements here. The fact that I owned a 450 based on the Rigby case built by Buhmiller is more convincing than your continued pravarication. You need to get out more. Actually you need to have the testicular fortitude to admit you are wrong... But a liar and a thief will ride the horse until it founders.

I visited Ackley in Salt Lake a couple times as well, and his book listings of Buhmiller wildcats is based on visits and correspondence with Johm Buhmiller.

You are still a LIAR AND A THIEF, and your continued feeble efforts to obfuscate and try and shift attention from those two facts just shows that you are sticking with the age old ploy of trying to cover your mess up by attacking the person who has exposed your LYING DOG butt for what it is. I've wondered about a lot of your crap over the past year, all of your "custom" rifles seem to be ad cutouts of factory offerings. How many other lies and instances of outright deceit might a careful examination of your AR past reveal?

No slurs or imprecations you can post here can hide the truth from the readership, and they are finding out what a LIAR AND THIEF and general all-around bullshit artiste you really are and have been. You are but a festering carbuncle upon the buttocks of humanity.

KEEP POSTING, show yourself ever more clearly for the LIAR AND THIEF that you really are.

post something cute, since you have no honor or desire to tell the truth.

Rich
DRSS

Canuck,
I stand corrected. For some reason I had them in the Bitterroot or Flathead valley area. Estergaard, eh? Wow, I thought everybody knew who John Buhmiller was... Well, everybody here does, and can consider him the father of the 460 Wbee and 45/475/500 wildcats based in 1955-57 on belted Rigby case, which Roy Wbee admitted he used with a belt and goofy shoulder. Buhmiller rifles I have examined all except one were beltless on the 416 Rigby basic case. Can this Estergard person be persuaded to post his initial thoughts on building a line of M'bogo wildcats and where the inspiration did come from?

I'll admit my inspiration for my 510 came from Wells, who likely got it from Buhmiller or Wbee, or both. I just didn't want the belt.
The 550 Gibbs (hey rip-off there's something you can steal from me and claim for your own in 2008...call it your 55-09 tell everyone George Gibbs appeared to you in a vision and asked you to "...save my legacy from IS...")came from a sample 505 Gibbs cylindrical basic case and reading about R Neal Shirley's 550 Magnum on the Wbee 460 cylindrical brass.
I would suggest Mr Estergaard and I were both still in grade school when Buhmiller built his first 50/416 Rigby.

I have no animus or issue with Mr Estergaard, the only bone of contention here is with the GREAT LIAR & THIEF, aka lowlife rip-off and his attempt to devalidate the authentic and original inventor and the first builder and shooter of the 21st Century...me.

regards, to all,

Rich
DRSS

Jeez,
I swear I will not read those Idaho Zephyr posts. No quotes please.

Now might as well keep on topic. We cannot allow a total highjack. This thread will die with me posting and ignoring the gas bag.

500 Mbogo shoulder: 20 thou and 35-degrees per side.

500 Jeffery top, 500 Mbogo bottom:


Below, L to R:
.475/.416 Rigby 2.900"
470 Mbogo 2.945"
500 Mbogo 3.000" 570-grain XLC
500 Mbogo 3.000" 640-grain ball
and some short-neck 500 Mbogo from .416 Rigby brass (2.900") with ball and GSC FN 570-grainer

This forum is for the free exchange of ideas.
Not for whining about imaginary self-hurt over "wildcat espionage."

There are two types of people in this world:
1. Winners
and
2. Whiners.

The Idaho Zephyr is Type 2.



The only dishonesty and self-agrandizement on this thread is that of the troll: Idaho Zephyr

The facts are clear and speak for themselves. Indeed any member reader here can search on "500 Mbogo" and find them, long before the hurried knock-off beltless .510 Wells by the troll. Pathetic indeed. Laughable. Less shoulder than the 10.75x68mm Mauser which is the factory minimum shoulder of all time.

He was quoted again and circumvented my ignore function. Hence my response. I will keep posting until I am the last poster on this thread. To the death of this thread.

All hail Dave Estergaard's 470 Mbogo, a unique cartridge never before done until he did it in the 1990's (exact date ???). It goes beyond a mere .475/.416 Rigby Improved.

I am proud to call the 500 Mbogo a RIPoff of Dave's work.

If Dave objects to this I would gladly go the boomstick route with a longer neck and shorter base to shoulder height.

Then would I have problems with boom stick for stealing his air cartridge dibbs???

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoSharpshooter:
Can this Estergard person be persuaded to post his initial thoughts on building a line of M'bogo wildcats and where the inspiration did come from?

IS,

I am sure he will chime in eventually....I suspect he may be off on a few days of summer R&R or something, as he usually checks in on us regularly.

In the meantime, you can read all about it on his website, here (click on case head)...



I have talked to Dave about it MANY times over the years, and at the risk of putting words in his mouth, as I recall he designed the 470 Mbogo specifically to get a little better velocity than a 470 NE with low pressure (he loads it to 2500fps, although one could easily push a 500gr bullet over 2700fps). To that end, he decided to wring the maximum capacity that he could out of the 416 Rigby basic case. Although I don't think he knew it at the time, he essentially "Rocky Gibbs'ed" the Ribgy case, by pushing the shoulder forward as far as he could while maintaining a minimial neck (similar to the 500 A2) and a 35 degree shoulder. Being a fan of the Gibbs' carts, I fell in love with the Mbogo cart at first sight.

I don't believe he ever had a "line" of carts in mind, but he clearly contemplated at least a few others on the same case (500, 358, maybe 338 IIRC).

I bought the original 470 Mbogo rifle from Dave in 2002 or so, and took it to Tanz in 2006 and shot 3 more cape buff with it...so its accounted for a half dozen so far. Not earth-shattering for sure, but the journey of a thousand miles, etc, etc.

Hope this helps,

Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
All hail Dave Estergaard's 470 Mbogo, a unique cartridge never before done until he did it in the 1990's (exact date ???).

RIP,

I think the date on the 470 Mbogo JGS reamer print is 1996, but I don't have it on my work computer.

quote:

It goes beyond a mere .475/.416 Rigby Improved.

Absolutely!

And I don't see why there isn't room for a few different flavours of Rigby cased wildcats.

I just can't resist......Did Ackley, Whelen, Gibbs and Zeglin get into a royal rumble about dibbs on the '06 case?

------------

IS...I guess I am dense...at first I thought this was just another chapter in your ongoing feud with RIP, and your contention that he RIP-ped off your cart design...is this all about who "homage" should go to?

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,

thanks for the update/corrections. As far As Buhmiller and Estergaard, I guess we will just leave it with the notion that "...great minds think alike...". Wheels are always being re-invented, and this is just another one.
Before the 510KX I owned a Krieghoff 500NE 3" DGR, that I picked up in 1997. I really liked that 2150fps with the 570gr bullet. The idea on the KX was to replicate that power level in a boltgun. I succeeded in spades. If someone else, "...long ago in a faraway galaxy...." was doing similar research, that is cool. Fifty years ago Buhmiller did it. I was in the third grade.

The thorn of contention is that there is just not much room for originality doing a 458/475/500 on the Rigby basic case. Anyone doing one is just running variations on a theme established in 1956 or '57.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
...not much room for originality doing a 458/475/500 on the Rigby basic case. Anyone doing one is just running variations on a theme...

On that I definitely agree. Much like the various flavours of the '06 and recently 404 Jeffery cases.

I don't think Dave E has ever claimed his was a "first ascent". It would be silly to assume that no one had ever done a 475/416 Rigby-cat before. But I do think his is the BEST one ever done!!

I don't think RIP has ever claimed a "first ascent" of the 416 Rigby case and a .510 cal bullet, with his "500 Mbogo" either. His "homage" to Dave E is simply due to the fact that he did a simple "neck-up" of Dave's "improved" case design.

I thought it was much like if someone decided to make a .358 based on necking up the 338 Gibbs (where Rocky stopped), and called it the 358 Gibbs out of deference to the guy who came up with that specific "improvement" of the many times and variously "improved" '06 case.

Just my 2c CDN, FWIW,
Canuck

quote:

If Dave objects to this I would gladly go the boomstick route with a longer neck and shorter base to shoulder height.

Then would I have problems with boom stick for stealing his air cartridge dibbs???

rip...you are comming to your senses...

i am glad someone sees there is no need for a short neck!

the neck should be as long as the shank and that is about 3/4"

long live the 510 P.H.!

boomie....please reduce the width of the "line" in your signature a bit. It causes all your posts to be wider than everyone elses and on small monitors may cause the bottom scroll bar to kick on for some, which is annoying.

Tx man,
Chris

how aboot that a...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
how aboot that a...

Poifect...
C

so to steer the discussion of what would be the best design...

the 500 a.r. wins the short version but about the long version...taking out the recycling of dies and reamers to save money what would be the best design?

making a long neck will make good sense... make the neck as long as the shank of the 600 grain bullets used. (i figure 3/4") no real loss in capacity but increased shoulder and have that cool double rifle neck look.