quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
Michael - was diameter of the 570 Barnes banded solids only .508" ????

Buffalo

Yep, that's what I measured several times. Even some from several years ago measured the same as you see Modified Barnes where I took the meplat down to facilitate feeding. I can only assume Barnes does this for double rifle use??? And as we can obviously see it has no effect on stability. That is also apparent in the 470 tests with my Capsticks, WITH ZERO engraving. Seems to me the bullet is "self-stabilizing"?

Michael

Would using a brass or even a hardened lead ball in a sabot solve the blow by problem?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Would using a brass or even a hardened lead ball in a sabot solve the blow by problem?

465H&H

Hmmmmm? Maybe? Have brass balls .4995, have .500 bores. Getting engraving, no slippage it seems, going to try some different things next week.

Michael

Agent J---I would think that the 50 AK crowd would be pleased. I think a lighter bullet, 450-500 would get velocities up a bit and increase penetration. With your bullet, velocity rules I believe! It appears that way anyway! This is excellent penetration for these velocities!

1799 FPS gave 43 inches of straight penetration, that seems like enough for anything that walks, crawls or flys...

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

Yes I knew 1-15 was standard twist for 50BMG but just figured that in the double it would have been slower. I guess Demas had a good idea to use this twist in the 500NE. I'm sure older guns probably have a slower twist in this caliber. I'LL just have to bring your baby back down and we can test it some more. I will work up some faster loads closer to what the 500NE is supposed to do 2050fps to 2150fps. I might make some of those brass bullets for it also.

Sam

Sam

You are welcome to come anytime, long as you bring that 500 Nitro with you!

Have you been looking at the info on the Barnes Banded bullets with the Doubles? If so, how do you feel about the Barnes Banded in the doubles??? I hate to say myself, not having a vested interest one way or the other. I think if I had one I would shoot hell out of them!
But that's just me, I do a lot of things!

Michael

The 50 Sarah kicked some ass with Jays bullets!

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
1799 FPS gave 43 inches of straight penetration, that seems like enough for anything that walks, crawls or flys...

Ja - I personally wouldn't hesitate to engage any beasty toe-to-toe with this set-up.

A 500 double would be excellent too!!

[/QUOTE]


I did some tests with the solids IMPALA from South Africa
http://www.impalabullets.co.za/


Good shooting and good hunting
Collani[/QUOTE]

Tank's Reto!

Michael,

Those Barnes banded are nice bullets and from what your tests show very good. Not 100% sure they are double safe but are close. I feel like there should be more relief behind the bands to give the metal a place to go. I think this is very important in a hard bullet like the Barnes or any other mono brass bullet. I also think lubing the bullet would help. It would be interesting to see how much pressure difference there would be between a dry bullet and a lubed one. Try sizing a case without lube compared to one that is. Thats a no brainer! I'm not really sure that those heavy steel jacketed bullet aren't harder on barrels than the brass ones.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

Those Barnes banded are nice bullets and from what your tests show very good. Not 100% sure they are double safe but are close. I feel like there should be more relief behind the bands to give the metal a place to go. I think this is very important in a hard bullet like the Barnes or any other mono brass bullet. I also think lubing the bullet would help. It would be interesting to see how much pressure difference there would be between a dry bullet and a lubed one. Try sizing a case without lube compared to one that is. Thats a no brainer! I'm not really sure that those heavy steel jacketed bullet aren't harder on barrels than the brass ones.

Sam

Well I think that they are safe and so do these guy's

quote:

Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
I've been listening to this debate for years about the barnes bullets. I still haven't heard anything that would change my mind about the monolithic barnes banded bullets. My personal opinion is that it's all bullshit. Feel free to use the barnes bullets in my rifles, if they have a problem, I'll fix it.
Also in the last 30 yrs. I've never had a problem with the monolithic bullets. I will say that I wouldn't use them in the old English rifles. I worry about the steel in them. This comment is based on experince with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
Will it isn't Physics per say. It's the trash steel in the pre war guns. And I did say banded bullets. Also I've rebarreled old English rifles that burst half way down that used the Woodliegh softs. Looked like a tripod. There's no mystery in my mind.

What people who blame the solids has not told you all is that the old English made barrels were not all to spec. as to the bore and groove diameters.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Pressure is just one issue. Barrel expansion is another matter entirely.

I have a little device to measure barrel expasion at the muzzle. woodleigh and Barnes give the same amount of expansion at a rifles muzzle in both .375 and .458 (sorry haven't tested other cal's yet).

Haven't tried Northforks, did try some other 'copper alloy' bullets from a big maker..02mm less expansion than woodleigh, but I don't think those will be launched commercially unless the US bannes lead or something strange.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
And Butch is spot on re bore size in English doubles. .375 flanged uses .373 bullets. Stick Barnes .375 bullets through an early one and you are asking for touble (all the later ones I have seen have regular .375 bores but the early ones didn't and the CIP specifications still show the smaller bore size). The .450/400's came in 5 version and 3 bore sizes. .405, .408 and .411. I would hate to stick a .411 Woodleigh or a Barnes through a .405 bore. same story with the .475's etc.

IF you have the correct size bullets for your bore, then I would be very happy shooting Barnes banded solids. NB- I tried some of their very old solid shank .458 bullets in my lott and they gave 0,01mm More expansion than woodleighs.

Has anyone tries paper patching 458's in a 470 so no metal engraving issues?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Has anyone tries paper patching 458's in a 470 so no metal engraving issues?

Read, above it is not a problem

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Has anyone tries paper patching 458's in a 470 so no metal engraving issues?

Read, above it is not a problem

Regardless of if it is a problem or not it seems like something worth exploring.

Paper patching .500" bullets for a 510 could be great for non DG plinking and piggie shooting without fear even if the fears are irrational.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Has anyone tries paper patching 458's in a 470 so no metal engraving issues?

Read, above it is not a problem

Regardless of if it is a problem or not it seems like something worth exploring.

Paper patching .500" bullets for a 510 could be great for non DG plinking and piggie shooting without fear even if the fears are irrational.

To paper patch on a bullet the paper is wrapped around the bullet and allowed to dry. The paper will shrink a bit and is therefore rather solid. Dry paper is very difficult to compress. Brass is a lubricant to steel. When bearings are not used on rotating shafts and brass bushing is used for less wear.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
1799 FPS gave 43 inches of straight penetration, that seems like enough for anything that walks, crawls or flys...

Ja - I personally wouldn't hesitate to engage any beasty toe-to-toe with this set-up.

A 500 double would be excellent too!!

It was no issue to get nearly 2000 fps in that little 20 inch #1 either. Probably could have even bumped that a bit. You guys need to take notice of the velocity and depth of penetration. With a 75% meplat, straight line penetration is a given, that's going to happen. As velocity increases so does penetration with this bullet. Also note that in the 510 Wells at 2200 or whatever it was that was 50 inches on the money!

A very excellent bullet and design.

Michael

Hey Guys, listen up, I am off to the NRA Show in Charlotte in the morning. I will be off line until Monday I suppose. If by any chance any of you are going to be there on the floor in the exhibits Friday afternoon or Saturday be sure to look me up, would like very much to meet with you. I will not have my lab coat on there!

Michael

Michael, don't go! Sean Hannity and Sara Palin are going to be there

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Extreme458



Yes, wet news print is an excellent test medium, as any reasonable thinking person can plainly see. Several examples presented--again!

The glossy paper is also wet along with the news print. The entire mix is soaked, and allowed to soak overnight. Soaked again that morning, then it is ready to work. I have no dry inserts of any sort.



Michael

Michael, I have also built a box to hold newspapers for testing bullets. I had a hard time deciding how much to wet the newspint.
In my tests, I ended up leaving the paper dry. I don't think that's too good. I'm not satisfied with that.

So how do you arrive at a consistent, repeatable moisture content? Do you measure a specific volume of water every time?

Also, I've been going through these threads trying to find info on Nosler Partitions in .416 caliber, as I have those bullets for my .416RM, but can't find info. What is your opinion regarding the 400gr .416 caliber Nosler Partitions?

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Extreme458

Demonical

458 B&M is a cartridge I developed that works in a Winchester M70 WSM action with short 18-20 inch barrels. It's the full equal of 458 Winchester, only in a much smaller package.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...191044231#6191044231

Michael, yeah I saw that thread. I understand that you have developed a class of cartridges in various calibers. What I was wondering is what does the B&M stand for?
Ya know, when I want to talk to people about the .458B&M I'd like to know what that B&M stands for.

Demonical

As I build the the test medium I wet it as I go along. On my range I have a water hose right at the box. So I place 12 inches or so in, the wet it down. All access water drains through. I keep working it until the box is full. Then I continue to wet the entire box. Let it soak in overnight. The next morning I hit it again and let it soak until ready to test. No I do not measure the moisture content or volume of water every time. I just try to keep a consistent process. For practical purposes some things like exact moisture content are really of little consequence in the long run. It does little to effect the behavior of a particular bullet. Of course there is a difference between wet and dry and behavior of some type of bullets might be changed between those two mediums. I think dry is pretty tough on bullets.

By wetting the medium as I place it in the box I can make pretty sure most of it is well soaked, by the box draining it is fairly consistent from one time to the next. Compression is another, more difficult consistency to achieve. Compression changes very little however other than the total depth of penetration measured by an inch or two, one way or the other. Basic behavior of a particular bullet is unchanged.

Glad to hear you are doing some testing on your own too! We would, I would, be very pleased if you posted your tests and results here with us!

I don't think I have ever tested the 416 Nosler Partitions. To be honest I am not a big Partition fan overall, I think there are better bullets for the intended job that they are made for. However, two things, 1-that is nothing but my opinion period 2--465HH sent a few samples of the 458 caliber 500 gr Nosler Partition and it did an excellent job in the test medium, and I think would do excellent on buffalo too. So without having actually tested the specific bullet and caliber, I must hold on making an assumption based solely on smaller calibers that I have tested, namely 338 and 358s and such.

I think that now that you are set up to test, maybe you should give them a good test and report to us on the results? I think that would be interesting to all of us.

OK concerning the B&Ms and some of the others. I have a life long friend that he and I have been shooting and doing things involved with shooting for over 30 yrs now! We speak frequently. One evening in 2005 he gave me a call and informed me he wanted a 500 S&W in a lever gun! I told him he could not have one, as at the time I thought the 1895 and 1886 receivers were too large and the 94's too small for the cartridge. All the while we are speaking I look on the shelf and there is a 338 WSM that I had been playing with. I am looking at this, grab a couple of cases, and while we are speaking on the phone I hacksaw the case off just below the shoulder and trim it up. Stuff a 500 caliber bullet in it, put it in a WSM Winchester M70 action and it fit perfectly under the rails, and picked up in the bolt just fine, even though it was short for the magazine. The 50 B&M Super Short was born that moment, later I tried it with a WSSM action. I told him I could not give him one in a lever gun, but a damn sure could in a bolt gun! His name is Billy Bruton, so for sparking the idea, I gave him the "B" in the B&M. That same evening I had plenty of magazine length in a WSM action, so I needed a longer case, found some RUM cases, cut and trimmed them to 2.25 inches and the 50 B&M was born, by the next few days there were following the 458 B&M and then the 416 B&M. Today, 9.3 B&M and the first 375 B&M is waiting on dies from Hornady. Then there is the orginal 50 Super Short on the WSSM actions, and a 458 B&M SUper Short rifle in the rack, waiting on dies from Hornady also. Since I love the lever guns too I did a 50 B&M Alaskan which is simple to squeeze the standar .510 AK down to .500. And that is the basic story. Of course I also did the 500 MDM, full length .500 caliber on a RUM for the Winchester M70s that were made in 300 RUM. In addition to that there is a 50 B&M SA (semi-Auto) and a 458 B&M SA both on DPMS guns. 475 B&M Super Short and 475 B&M are on the drawing boards. And who knows what else may come down the road in the future?

Kinda a long way to get here, but the B is for Billy, the M for me, Michael.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Michael, don't go! Sean Hannity and Sara Palin are going to be there

Dave

I made it out of there without having to give autographs to either Sean or Sara! HEH!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Demonical

As I build the the test medium I wet it as I go along. On my range I have a water hose right at the box. So I place 12 inches or so in, the wet it down. All access water drains through. I keep working it until the box is full. Then I continue to wet the entire box. Let it soak in overnight. The next morning I hit it again and let it soak until ready to test. No I do not measure the moisture content or volume of water every time. I just try to keep a consistent process. For practical purposes some things like exact moisture content are really of little consequence in the long run. It does little to effect the behavior of a particular bullet. Of course there is a difference between wet and dry and behavior of some type of bullets might be changed between those two mediums. I think dry is pretty tough on bullets.

By wetting the medium as I place it in the box I can make pretty sure most of it is well soaked, by the box draining it is fairly consistent from one time to the next. Compression is another, more difficult consistency to achieve. Compression changes very little however other than the total depth of penetration measured by an inch or two, one way or the other. Basic behavior of a particular bullet is unchanged.

Glad to hear you are doing some testing on your own too! We would, I would, be very pleased if you posted your tests and results here with us!

I don't think I have ever tested the 416 Nosler Partitions. To be honest I am not a big Partition fan overall, I think there are better bullets for the intended job that they are made for. However, two things, 1-that is nothing but my opinion period 2--465HH sent a few samples of the 458 caliber 500 gr Nosler Partition and it did an excellent job in the test medium, and I think would do excellent on buffalo too. So without having actually tested the specific bullet and caliber, I must hold on making an assumption based solely on smaller calibers that I have tested, namely 338 and 358s and such.

I think that now that you are set up to test, maybe you should give them a good test and report to us on the results? I think that would be interesting to all of us.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
OK concerning the B&Ms and some of the others. I have a life long friend that he and I have been shooting and doing things involved with shooting for over 30 yrs now! We speak frequently. One evening in 2005 he gave me a call and informed me he wanted a 500 S&W in a lever gun! I told him he could not have one, as at the time I thought the 1895 and 1886 receivers were too large and the 94's too small for the cartridge. All the while we are speaking I look on the shelf and there is a 338 WSM that I had been playing with. I am looking at this, grab a couple of cases, and while we are speaking on the phone I hacksaw the case off just below the shoulder and trim it up. Stuff a 500 caliber bullet in it, put it in a WSM Winchester M70 action and it fit perfectly under the rails, and picked up in the bolt just fine, even though it was short for the magazine. The 50 B&M Super Short was born that moment, later I tried it with a WSSM action. I told him I could not give him one in a lever gun, but a damn sure could in a bolt gun! His name is Billy Bruton, so for sparking the idea, I gave him the "B" in the B&M. That same evening I had plenty of magazine length in a WSM action, so I needed a longer case, found some RUM cases, cut and trimmed them to 2.25 inches and the 50 B&M was born, by the next few days there were following the 458 B&M and then the 416 B&M. Today, 9.3 B&M and the first 375 B&M is waiting on dies from Hornady. Then there is the orginal 50 Super Short on the WSSM actions, and a 458 B&M SUper Short rifle in the rack, waiting on dies from Hornady also. Since I love the lever guns too I did a 50 B&M Alaskan which is simple to squeeze the standar .510 AK down to .500. And that is the basic story. Of course I also did the 500 MDM, full length .500 caliber on a RUM for the Winchester M70s that were made in 300 RUM. In addition to that there is a 50 B&M SA (semi-Auto) and a 458 B&M SA both on DPMS guns. 475 B&M Super Short and 475 B&M are on the drawing boards. And who knows what else may come down the road in the future?

Kinda a long way to get here, but the B is for Billy, the M for me, Michael.

Michael

Michael, thanks for that. I have looked at your posts and my testing is so basic and so far behind what you are doing I'm almost embarrassed to call it bullet testing.
I may just take a crack at the 400gr .416's and see what I get.
If I do, know I will post those results here.

Jim.


P.S. Thanks for the info on the B&M series of cartridges.

This was already posted in another thread.

Also the Hardy board and wood is 6" closer to the front of the box.

The 450-400 is fun little gun. Well balanced and even with 26" barrels very handy. The more I shoot it, the more I am considering leaving my 375 H&H at home and bring the 450-400 as my light rifle when I go to Zim/Moz this year.


Here is a small sampling of bullets fired in a mix of 6" wet newspaper, 5/8" Hardy Board, 2 by 6 treated Pine, and 36" of wet newspaper.

This test gives a direct comparison of the DGX versus the Woodleigh. Each of the bullets was fired in different quadrants of the same set-up.


BTW the Hydro Woody's did not arrive Friday, hopefully Monday.

Demonical (Jim)

You need not be embarrassed at all, all bullet testing is good, and something can be learned from it I assure you! The thing to be embarrassed about is to not either test or have any concerns of testing before going to the field with a bullet! That is what should be embarrassing!!!!!!!! To find yourself stupid in the field and not at least having an idea of what your bullet can do or won't do! Now that should be and would be embarrassing!

You do just that, take a crack at testing the 400 Partitions. If you have a box, it will drain and as long as the medium is wet it will be fine. Compression, when building a new box of medium it swells with water content, and can be at it's most compressed at that point. In particular with expanding bullets, when you tear the mix apart looking for the bullet and tracing bullet path and channels, when replacing the medium I just take a board and push against the medium to compress as consistent as possible to about the same as it was before. Now that is in no way EXACT, but right now it's what I have to work with. I am trying to come up with something that will give consistent pressure the same every time, but to be honest it still does not effect the behavior, only the depth and that only by a little one way or the other.

So give it a crack and lets see the results! Mike, RIP and myself can always use another hand here! There are a hell of a lot of bullets out there that need to be tested!

Michael

There is an old cast iron bath tub I use to saturate my paper. It holds enough to fill the box one time. In a couple of hours the paper is completed saturated. I can drain the water and after about 30 minutes handle the paper. I find if I take the paper out of the tub before draining the water it is very hard to handle.

As far as consistency I can tell you within a an 1" of where a North Fork bullet will stop in the media.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
As far as consistency I can tell you within a an 1" of where a North Fork bullet will stop in the media.

Mike

Your data on the North Fork 470 is so consistent and so good that as you can see I have 110% faith in it, and quote it often. Due to your data on this, and more of my own on this subject I have also developed a hard core opinion that a meplat size of 65-70% can and does overcome a less than optimum twist rate for terminal penetration! You have excellent proof of that in your data between the North Forks, the DGS, and the Woodleigh FMJ!

Now, the test above with the Woodleigh Softs and the DGX. Penetration is excellent with both, retained weight is good, Hardy Board and pine is taken the toll on the soft expansion I think, can't really tell about #2 Woodleigh, looks like it might have held good expansion. All good enough for buffalo I think. .410 caliber, hmmmm, crazy Boomy is wanting a 410 B&M. Hmmmm?

Now I know I might be putting you back to work on this again, but how about a test, same bullets same loads same everything, except take the Hardy Board out, and the Pine out of the equation and lets see how soft medium effects these same bullets? Straight up wet print. Can we do that?

If so, then repost both together! Direct comparisons.

Barrels are still AWFULLY long on that gun????

LOL

Job well done!
Michael

You know it seems like I had something to test this week, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was???? Was I to do something this week???? Anyone know?

M

quote:

something to test

I may have a busy week.



Left to right:

Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilised 470 500 Grain Bullet

Traditional Woodleigh Solid 470 500 Grain

North Fork 470 500 Grain

The driving Bands on the Woodleigh Hydro Bullet measure .474" and the shank measures .464".

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

something to test

The barrel does appear to be the proper length.

That barrel length on that thing looks about right to me! Looks fast and handy! Good fighting gun, just one thing I can't see the bolt? Where is the bolt handle??? Hmmmm?


Oh Boy! New big Woodleighs to Test!!!!!!!!! Excellent! Yes, I think you are going to be busy with those and my requests too! HEH! Maybe that's what I was supposed to do this week, was to get you busy?? HEH!

Michael

The first test on the the new Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilised 470 500 Grain Bullet went well as our Aussie friends have stated.

First test would give a slight edge to the North fork for straightline penetration, but it would be splitting hairs. I would not hesitate to hunt with this bullet.

The nose flattened some and expanded approximately .020.

The "Meplat" was measured using an ink stamp.

To quote a famous author

"It's a friggin wonder bullet.

It's powerful, that's for sure!"

As per special request I ran another test with the 450-400 3 1/4".

No hardy board or pine board was used. Just newspaper. The Woodleighs mushroomed perfect and kept most of their weight but penetrated no further in plain newspaper than they did with wood and hardy board.

The Hornady bullets penetrated much deeper but lost weight and had very little mushroom effect.

No more testing until the new chronograh arrives, tired of fighting the old unit.

Michael:

The Hawks are on their way! I sent you ten .416 400 grain bullets with the .065 jacket. I think there are thirteen 400 grain .458 bullets with the .065 jacket. I also threw in five 500 grain .475 with the .035 jacket. I shoot those in my .470 and I thought you might want to try them in your .470 Capstick. Maybe they will be big enough to engage the rifling. If not, I might suggest that you slug the bore and find out what it is. I am pretty sure that Andy will make up some bullets that would work for you in your Capstick.

I am really curious to see how those .416 bullets do although I think most of the other guys here have concluded they probably won't hold together. We'll see.

Dave

Excellent! We will do some different velocities and see what we come up with, with all of them and we will have a pretty good idea of where they work the best at. Right now I think they will go to the top of the list to be tested, so soon as I get them I will go to work on them. Thanks for the 470s, give them a try too. I have to get the bore slugged, will let Sam do that later on. If I ever really got serious about the 470 capsticks I would get David to make some custom bullets for me along with the .500s he does for me anyway.

When I get the bore slugged I might just do that.

But when it comes to the 470s I am going to put more effort into the 475 B&M and 475 B&M Super Shorts.

You know Dave, little tiny guns!

Sorry, had to throw that one on ya! LOL

Michael

MIKE

Great test work buddy! Yes, I knew that Hardy board and pine was being tough on those poor bullets! But, that is as it should be too, no free rides eh? But, I wanted to see how much difference between the two tests. Both successful as I see it. Those Woodleigh softs, might be a little soft on buffalo??? What do you think? Hornady has enough shank left and penetration that it would be fine I believe. Woodleigh softs would be excellent leopard medicine maybe lion too! That little gun with 20 inch barrels just might make a dandy kitty cat gun!!!!! Fast! LOL.



Well It certainly appears that Woodleigh has now entered the Modern World, with a World Class Solid!

I have to get a load of these on the way to me too! WOW. Woodleigh should be proud and congratulated on this success. I wonder how much longer they will even bother with the antiquated RN FMJ line???? That should be a thing of the past, I suggest all of US (including myself) should hold on to those old FMJ bullets, they may be Collectors Items soon!!!!!

Now I have to wonder this. Do you think that someone actually engineered this wonderful bullet, or do you think they were just sitting around getting drunk one night and made it up as a fluke??? You never know about these things, most of my great ideas have been while I was sucking up Grey Goose, and just making crap up! Damn things look like the later to me, but boy what a bullet and great idea!

Mike, I suppose the cup point is moving some medium tissue, moving hydro??? Trauma, damage?

I am still trying to sort out the cup part of the equation! The one against one test a couple weeks ago with the 2 577 bullets that Sam had, just a slight tiny cup, nothing like the Woodleighs, and a flat nose, same bullet--way more damage and trauma with the cup, but 10 Inches less penetration? I understand why and how, but what I don't get is how the Woodleighs penetrate so deep with the deep cup they have, as opposed to the flat? Sam made up some weird looking things too in .500. We will test those, and he made some Woodleigh look alikes only no cup. Whatever and however this works---it for sure works and it would seem to work without any loss of penetration, of course that is hard to prove without a near exact copy without the cup!

Yes, this might just be the next generation of great solids!

Excellent work as always, thanks! Oh, what sort of chrono you got coming?

michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

But when it comes to the 470s I am going to put more effort into the 475 B&M and 475 B&M Super Shorts.

You know Dave, little tiny guns!

Sorry, had to throw that one on ya! LOL

Michael

I chuckled when I read your post. I was at the range yesterday. I just put a scope on my .450 Dakota and put it on paper yesterday. 450 grain TSX bullets at 2400 fps and it is just loafing along. I love those big cartridges! Maybe I will get you to come back to the dark side

I like those itsy bitsy cartridges too! They make me smile

Have fun with the Hawks!

Thanks,

I will decide today on the chrony either CEDM2 or PACT Professional. It will have the infrared skyscreens.

There was no noticeable difference in the damage of the newspaper. Maybe with flesh it would be different?

I am anxious to try them at the 100 yard range.

All Y'all:
Doin' good ain't got no end!
Keep up the good work!
JackPhantomHuckleberryHoundDog, RIP