WOW - that LabRadar sure looks awesome… I will order one asap… Was it May ? I just wrote to them as well… Wow… !

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I have some test work planned for .500 caliber, and thought I might get to it this week... However, with last weeks ice storm, and lots of cleanup work to do here, trees, branches, limbs that need to be sawn up, piled, and later burned I am not sure when I am going to get to it.. Maybe next week or later. Running solids in .500 from 450, 475, 500, 525 and 550s in the 50 B&M, 500 B&M and 500 MDM.... 4 different lengths of nose projection from .558 on the first and early 500#13 Solid and 550#13 solid, 475 & 525 #13s at .600, 450#13 at .650 and I believe the 450 NF is closer to .700 nose projection.... I personally at this moment don't think there is going to be much difference that can be attributed to nose projection, more attributed to weights and velocities of the different bullets in the different cartridges..... My personal interests in this exercise is the fact that I plan on taking the new 500 B&M to the field in Zimbabwe in June, and I want a good solid to match up with the various #13 HPs with tips added, and NF Expanding CPS if I can get POI correct with these.........

But this cleanup has to come first, plus I have actual work type meetings here this week.........

Any progress Michael? Boring day over here.

quote:

Any progress Michael? Boring day over here.

Cappy.......

Well, no progress on the terminal tests, that's for sure... Have been pretty tied up here since cleanup has finally been completed. Been shooting every day this week, but have projects that are more priority than the terminals right now. Several Zombie projects going on with various things, but even above that getting rifles ready to go on safari this year, and one 500 MDM going to a PH in Zimbabwe, so those things have top priority currently......

Some of the things I have been working on is POI with DGRs. One mine, 500 B&M. First test yesterday, after all the extensive pressure data done on many bullets, I finally got some POI work done at 50 yards.... I have a 410#13 HP with tips installed, running 2400 fps and a 475#13 Solid at 2300 fps in the same hole at 50 yards... Very good. I move velocity up to 2500 fps with the 410 and it moves off to the left and low an inch or so, I don't like that, so stick with the 2400 on that bullet. Have a 525 Solid at 2150 fps that is only 1/2 inch right of the 410/475s, so that is very workable. I have much more to do and work on with it, but it is looking good, and I will be using this in Zimbabwe in June.....

The other really neat project I am working on is for Lionhunter, his SIL Beau is getting that really neat 458 B&M 19 inch gun I have here, so I am getting it ready and set up for their safari later this year. I don't think Mike will mind me talking about it, but I don't give a damn if they get the rifle or not, I think they should not, its flawed somehow, thinking I might just keep it....... HEH HEH............ I was doing the second run of POI on this gun yesterday too..... Using a 250 Socom at 2925 fps, 420 #13 HP at 2290 fps, and 450#13 Solid at 2250 fps, I adjusted slightly yesterday, since the 250 and 420 are primary for cats on this trip, and probably not a lot of use for the solid, so I brought the 250/420s more in line.... Here is what I got at 50 yards with the 3 loads and 3 bullets............. 2 each on this run.... I am pretty sure I pulled one of the 420s slightly right, so that is my poor ass shooting.... Not the rifle or bullet!




Now, I moved up to 25 yards to get POI on all three, I think I could have shot a little better here as well, I was in a bit of a rush I think......



Rifle is topped with a nice 1X6 30mm Leupold, I forget the model.....

I will be working on these and some of the other projects for upcoming weeks right now, not sure when I am going to get to those terminals, still on the books to be done, but priorities are elsewhere right now, and for the next couple of weeks or so anyway.................

Michael

By the way Seasons...... thanks for sharing that shooting session of Wes's...... That is really INCREDIBLE SHOOTING with a Handgun!

I can't even imagine such..........

Just fantastic........

Goes to show..

Michael

Michael you're definitely busy so I’ll be patient. Nice grouping with the .458 B&M by the way, those loads will get it done. Don’t forget to share the 500 B&M data once you’ve settled on them…

Wow... Great shooting with the 475 Linebaugh! Thanks for sharing Seasons...

That rifle Michael is considering holding onto, and which Beau has spoken for (arm wrestling could be required), is topped with a Leupold VX-6 1-6x illuminated duplex reticle and will be used for Lion, Leopard, Hippo and possibly Croc this September. I will also be carrying my 458B&M for elephant and to back-up Beau.

As always, Michael has done an outstanding job on the load development for this rifle. Simply put, Beau will have the choice of three different loads suitable for all the game on quota, confirming my prior statements that I believe the 458B&M is suitable as a one gun safari rifle, capable of taking all species while providing the "insurance" of a 458 caliber on the big nasties.

Great work, Buddy!

I did some testing with my 45-70, the bullets were 420 grain gc cast bullets.
I tried to recover bullets to see how they perform on railroad ties.
I punched clean through 7 ties only to recover a bullet that hit a big knot in the backstop.
It flattened sideways but didn't fracture as I thought it would.
I have ony recovered the one cast bullet in all the years of shooting 45-70.
My 1886 Winchester 20 inch carbine launches those big pills at 1640 fps, big holes, no tracking.

303.......

7 railroad ties..... That is a lot of penetration....Welcome to the thread.....


Cappy...

I have pretty much completed data on the 500 B&M for now. It is doing pretty spiffy for a 18 inch gun.... I have done very little with lighter bullets, only a 335 up to 2650 fps at 50000 PSI, and have plenty of room to go up from there.

I am looking hard at the 410 Raptor and running it at 2500 with a few powders, but looks like right now I will run at 2400 to match POI with 475 #13 Solids at 2350 or so.... Also, very interested in this 525#13 Solid at 2150, nice bullet as well... and POI good... 450s NF and #13s at 2350-2400 fps... 500s at 2250....... I have most of the heavier bullets up and running, good loads, safe pressures, the works...... When I can get my hands on some more V-N530 I will be doing some more workups with the 500 MDM especially, and more on the 500 B&M, but who knows when I can lay hands on enough of that?

M

Doc M,

Just for yuks get a load of this:
The Pommies were experimenting with a "400 B&M Extra Long" (400 B&MLE) about a century ago.

Early 1900s British wildcatting shown by George A. Hoyem:
History and Development of Small Arms Ammunition
Volume Three (British Sporting Rifle Cartridges)


Later, Alligator ...

Interesting cartridge. Wonder what the actual bullet diameter was/is?

Jim,
Only The Shadow knows, or maybe George A. Hoyem.

Great shooting Michael!


Well I haven't had the opportunity to do much shooting my self in the past two weeks but was able to get out and do some load testing with the .429 200 gr. raptors for an upcoming hog hunt. This was a quick and dirty range visit for my brother in law, he will be shooting a marlin 1894 so worked up 3 loads just to see how they would perform in this particular rifle.

To give a base line Factory 240 Federal JHP
1776
1775
1785

Raptors 23 gr 296
1689
1693
1683

Raptors 14 gr Longshot( THIS IS WAY OVER PRESSURE)
1638
1659
1680

Raptors 19 gr 2400
1765
1765
1765

This one of the best 100 yard groups of the day
[URL= ]

I went with the 2400, gave the best velocity's and the least amount of dispersion. 296 fair well but did not give the velocity's I was looking for, the 2400 load can be bumped up a grain safely IMO but the slight gain in velocity and short time window I am sticking with the existing load.

Now onto the the Longshot story, this was a load I put together for the first run of the 200's, they were slightly sticky but nothing crazy but gave good velocity, the bands are completely different now then before, well firing this load the brass was ballooned at the rear of the case just a little bit of pressure , Its a good powder but I believe there are better for this bullet, like we have seen with 4100 and 2400.

Have some "rat bore testing" as Michael likes to call it and then some final tweaks with the 1911 and we will be off to slay some pigs.

Seasons......

Long time ago I decided to not mess with .429 and all my work is with 45 Colt. I have a Winchester 94 in 45 Colt that I have had for years now. I have run some pretty mean stuff through it over the years, and it has even been to Africa a few times playing around, makes a nice camp gun, and makes a fine truck gun, very handy........ Also, I am old school and just don't get into load data for handgun cartridges to speak of, if I can't do it with Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 then it just don't get done. For these heavier loads in my Winchester 45 Colt I use 2400 as well....

I have a few of those 240 Raptors in 45, I used from 20-24/2400, 23 gave me 1776 fps and 24 gave me 1830 fps in my Winchester, both heavy loads, in fact 24/2400 I figured was Over Max.... 23 at heavy, so I settled at 22/2400 for a nice easy 1725 fps, but this is a 240 gr CEB Raptor..... Gave excellent terminals in the test work.

Of course I had to play with the 150 Raptor as well in 45 Colt and the little rifle, 29/2400 gave me 2158 fps, but I think its a bit much, dropping to 28/2400 for 2091 fps, 27/2400 2017 fps and probably the best load overall.... All these in the Winchester 94. Again, very interesting terminal tests......

I love carbine rifles in handgun calibers, for general purpose use around the house, and handling. I have been busy the last little while with getting things put together for several of these little carbines, and still have a good bit of work to do next few weeks with them........

Mighty fine 100 yard group you have there with that Marlin 94... Not shabby at all......

Michael

Did some load testing yesterday afternoon with a Ruger Super Redhawk in .480 Ruger. I tested the 280 grain Raptors. After a shot at 50 yards, I made a sight adjustment, raising it up a bit, and then fired four more rounds. I think I really like this bullet/load combination!

I think there could be a niche market for a line of match pistol bullets from CEB. I talked to a guy on the US pistol shooting team about the bullets and better accuracy but the cost is a factor when shooting as much as they do but if it helps win competitions it could be worth it.

Fellas: Am wanting to work up a load for a 45/70 Marlin Lever. Primary targets would be deer, hogs, and such...maybe axis deer or a red deer hind.
I am thinking that one of the 250 grain CEB bullets may be the ticket here. I know the 250 grain lever bullet is available, but, does the 250 grain SOCOM bullet have a place here...given it's lower shear velocity. I am guessing the SOCOM may have to be single loaded for lever action use. Or, alternatively, the tip may have to be removed for use in a lever action magazine tube. Which way should I go here, guys? Regards.

Whitworth.......

Between you, JWP, Seasons and some of you other very serious hand gunners, well, thing is, you beginning to piss me off!!!!!!!

You boys are shooting those handguns better than I can shoot a rifle!!!!!!!!!!

HEH......... Very Excellent Shooting.............

quote:

MikeD..... Fellas. Am wanting to work up a load for a 45/70 Marlin Lever. Primary targets would be deer, hogs, and such...maybe axis deer or a red deer hind.
I am thinking that one of the 250 grain CEB bullets may be the ticket here. I know the 250 grain lever bullet is available, but, does the 250 grain SOCOM bullet have a place here...given it's lower shear velocity. I am guessing the SOCOM may have to be single loaded for lever action use. Or, alternatively, the tip may have to be removed for use in a lever action magazine tube. Which way should I go here, guys? Regards.

Mike.... Just a couple of months or so ago I ordered 750 of the 250 Socoms... Mostly for my 458 B&Ms.... But with a mind to try some in the 45/70... I ordered the entire lot Without Tips, and Talon Tips separate.... I seated a couple just to see and make sure they would work through the lever guns, and they do... NO TIP ADDED of course......

I have yet to load any however in the 45/70. I did however load the 250 #13 Raptors in 45/70, and in a Marlin 18 inch gun I was able to touch 2400 fps with those, and a good dose of RL 7. Everything seemed to work just fine, and I would load exactly the same with the 250 Socoms.......

I am of the opinion that these two bullets, and I am partial to the Socom, will turn the 45/70 into a completely different animal........ I believe the 45/70 will be incredibly enhanced with this bullet.

I have NO DOUBT at all, that in my 458 B&M and B&M Super Short, that this 250 Socom can handle any thin skinned animal that walks the planet, including all bears, lions, leopards, moose, and plains game and anything in between. And at 2350-2400 fps in a 45/70 it absolutely has to take the 45/70 into new territory............

Michael

[QUOTE]Originally posted by michael458:
Whitworth.......

Between you, JWP, Seasons and some of you other very serious hand gunners, well, thing is, you beginning to piss me off!!!!!!!

You boys are shooting those handguns better than I can shoot a rifle!!!!!!!!!!

HEH......... Very Excellent Shooting.............


Your too kind Michael, but I can tell you Whitworth has been at another level lately, I think something has taken over him!


All I keep seeing is these ragged hole groups with factory guns!

quote:

Originally posted by Seasons44:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Whitworth.......

Between you, JWP, Seasons and some of you other very serious hand gunners, well, thing is, you beginning to piss me off!!!!!!!

You boys are shooting those handguns better than I can shoot a rifle!!!!!!!!!!

HEH......... Very Excellent Shooting.............

Your too kind Michael, but I can tell you Whitworth has been at another level lately, I think something has taken over him!

All I keep seeing is these ragged hole groups with factory guns!

I truly wish I could shoot that well. But I can't even see that well without using a scope or binos!

Got out this morning and tested some of the 220 grain CEB Raptors out of my .480 Ruger SRH. Very accurate! This five-shot 50 yard group measured 3/4-inch. Wow!



Followed up with this one -- pulled one of them:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Got out this morning and tested some of the 220 grain CEB Raptors out of my .480 Ruger SRH. Very accurate! This five-shot 50 yard group measured 3/4-inch. Wow!



Followed up with this one -- pulled one of them:

Excellent! Simply outstanding.

I'm with JWP.....

OUTSTANDING......

M

I was having a "VISION" this morning!

I have been tasked to load some 500 S&W for my buddy LionHunter. So seeing all these great handgun groups, hell I thought I would post mine this morning! I was having a "Vision", great big .500 caliber hole, all on top of each other......... Posting
my wonderful, great, handgun shooting abilities...... Yes, I was having a "Vision".....................



Using the CEB .500 caliber 400 Copper Solid and the matching 340 Copper NonCon.......

I was having a "Vision", right up until the time I fired the damned thing!



I fired 4 rounds each of the 400s and 340s to get a start point... Total 8 rounds, ok not bad, 400s at 1300 and 340s at 1575....
Groups were not so bad, Couple of Flyers....... Me snatching the living HELL out of it after a few rounds!

Back to load up 8 more! Now we are getting serious with this, up the charges!

400s at 1420 fps, OUCH......... Damn Damn Damn this hurts! I can only fire three of them!

After a few minutes, I have to try the 340s........ Damn this just is not any fun, damn, let me trade this crap off for one of Robs 600 OverKills PLEASE................

340s at 1650 fps.................. .............. I can only shoot TWO OF THESE....... Screw this, good enough, put this thing away.................

I would jump on a 600 OK any day over this.............. Makes shooting a 500 MDM easy easy easy........... This HURTS.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, this 500 S&W is a 4 INCH GUN................... I don't want one of these at all..........

That S&W is EVERYTHING you like.
Big bore, short barrel, light weight for caliber. The 500 S&W does have a bit of a bump, when you shoot it.

Keith

Those X-frames are crew served weapons. They don't kick all that bad...... Michael, if you want to try some heavy recoiling revolvers, I'll be more than happy to hook you up!

No target?

quote:

Originally posted by capo ward:
No target?

I don't think so!

I said I was having a "Vision", problem is, my "Vision" did not match up to "Reality"..........

HEH HEH............

quote:

Those X-frames are crew served weapons. They don't kick all that bad...... Michael, if you want to try some heavy recoiling revolvers, I'll be more than happy to hook you up!

If it gets worse than this 4 inch 500..........

NO THANK YOU...............

Hog....... Now it would be great, IF IT HAD A STOCK ON IT........... LOL......

M

Stock and a 16" barrel... LOL...

My 500S&W is one of the early 8 ¾" bbl revolvers. I have fired over 1000 rounds of 355-440gr loads and have taken it to africa on 2 safaris, one of which was a handgun only hunt, where I took some new world record antelope and a Cape Buff. It is one of the sweetest revolvers I've ever owned. This is the gun Michael is loading for, as I sent him hundreds of once fired brass cases.

I have never fired the 500S&W 4", although I have one still NIB that I bought with the intention of carrying it while fishing in Alaska, but my supposition is that there is a BIG difference in felt recoil between the two bbl lengths. Unfortunately, the only one Michael has available for testing is a 4" model. I warned him not to over do it with that 4".

We all know Michael only has one speed - "Full Bore". Thanks Pal!

LionHunter:
Have you ever posted hunt reports of your African Hunts?

I have issues with posting hunt reports or pics on AR or anywhere on the net.

I gave Aaron Neilson permission to post a pic of my 2004 #1 Zambian Lion. I have discussed my 2011 hunt here when it was shown on TAA and my 2012 ele hunt when Michael458 asked my permission to post some details/pics. 2013 a clip of Beau's DRT Zebra was posted at Michael458's B&M website and on the CEB website but I don't think my bull ele side brain shot from last year has been shown anywhere publicly.

This .480 SRH just keeps impressing me. Shot this five-shot 50 yard group this morning (yeah, one flier) with CEB 220 grain Raptors over Power Pistol. These bullets are pretty amazing.

Whitworth......

Excellent....... I wish my 500 SW groups at 7 yards was somewhere even in the ballpark with that, hell I would have been happy with...
NEVER MIND........ LOL.......

These bullets do the same in the rifles too..... One hole........ I can do that, sometimes.... With Rifle that is....


QUESTION............

Loading these 500s yesterday I was getting bullet jump. Had a pretty fair roll crimp in them, and today sending Mike some to use in his gun, and I have them rolled so heavy it is just before bulging the case, can't roll no more! If this don't work, then what????? Got some thoughts on that?


Damn good shooting.......

M

Whitworth-

Outstanding shooting!

I have a .480 SRH that I should put on the market. Any idea as to current value? It is scoped as well. Lots of once fired brass available as well.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Whitworth......

Excellent....... I wish my 500 SW groups at 7 yards was somewhere even in the ballpark with that, hell I would have been happy with...
NEVER MIND........ LOL.......

These bullets do the same in the rifles too..... One hole........ I can do that, sometimes.... With Rifle that is....


QUESTION............

Loading these 500s yesterday I was getting bullet jump. Had a pretty fair roll crimp in them, and today sending Mike some to use in his gun, and I have them rolled so heavy it is just before bulging the case, can't roll no more! If this don't work, then what????? Got some thoughts on that?


Damn good shooting.......

M

Fantastic shooting Whitworth!


Michael,

You know to stop having crimp jump you just pour less powder in the case.....


Just a thought you may want to rough up the crimp groove with some emory paper, may give the brass the a bit more bite

quote:

You know to stop having crimp jump you just pour less powder in the case....

All I have been doing is dipping the cases jam full, and tamping them in a tad?

Maybe an intervention is in order....

I have heard the stories of you filling the case brushing off the excess and making the bullet fit!


What powder are you loading the 500's with?

Seasons...

I loaded some a couple of years ago for my buddy Billy in this same 500 4 inch gun. At the time, I used some heavy doses of WW 296, and I figured to use a Fed 210 with them, as that is what I do with the Super Shorts....... So, that is what I am using now, and sorry, but I know all about how good Lilgun is, and I have plenty of Lilgun for this project, HOWEVER, I am not in the mood to do much LOAD DEVELOPMENT in this......... WW296 is doing a good job, and giving me MORE velocity than I want, if this works in Mikes gun, then that is a good thing!!!!!!!!! HEH HEH............

These things need STOCKS on them! OH, wait a minute, thats almost exactly what a 50 B&M Super Short is, how nice that is to shoot and play with..................... HEH................. Now I have done a good bit of load development there...............


Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Whitworth......

Excellent....... I wish my 500 SW groups at 7 yards was somewhere even in the ballpark with that, hell I would have been happy with...
NEVER MIND........ LOL.......

These bullets do the same in the rifles too..... One hole........ I can do that, sometimes.... With Rifle that is....


QUESTION............

Loading these 500s yesterday I was getting bullet jump. Had a pretty fair roll crimp in them, and today sending Mike some to use in his gun, and I have them rolled so heavy it is just before bulging the case, can't roll no more! If this don't work, then what????? Got some thoughts on that?


Damn good shooting.......

M

Fill the grooves with blue loctite.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Seasons...

I loaded some a couple of years ago for my buddy Billy in this same 500 4 inch gun. At the time, I used some heavy doses of WW 296, and I figured to use a Fed 210 with them, as that is what I do with the Super Shorts....... So, that is what I am using now, and sorry, but I know all about how good Lilgun is, and I have plenty of Lilgun for this project, HOWEVER, I am not in the mood to do much LOAD DEVELOPMENT in this......... WW296 is doing a good job, and giving me MORE velocity than I want, if this works in Mikes gun, then that is a good thing!!!!!!!!! HEH HEH............

These things need STOCKS on them! OH, wait a minute, thats almost exactly what a 50 B&M Super Short is, how nice that is to shoot and play with..................... HEH................. Now I have done a good bit of load development there...............


Michael

Freedom Arms recommends against using LilGun because of the amount of heat and forcing cone erosion that the powder creates.