quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Todd, this was a dig at Michael's dislike of the .375 bore size in general. He "loves" his 9.3s for some reason. I guess he likes them because fewer people have them. maybe 375 is just to common.

NOTHING was said about big game hunting. Why is .375 in the AR "big bore forum", how knows. Traditionally big bores start at 450 and go up. 400 - 440 are generally large mediums.

Keith

Keith... I don't even like my 9.3s anymore... LOL.............

Mike,
any data/info re: V-N 530 and the .500 MDM that you are ready to share yet ?

Are you blending it or running it "straight" ?

Thanks,

Paul.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:
Mike,
any data/info re: V-N 530 and the .500 MDM that you are ready to share yet ?

Are you blending it or running it "straight" ?

Thanks,

Paul.

Just a couple of tests so far, up to 92/V-N530 with that 460 NonCon that is obsolete, 2376 fps and 53000 PSI... Going to 94 +
Seems a good bit of room, I am thinking 2500 or so before topping out......... This means the newer 450 will run less pressure, the 500s run 2450+..... Or what I think right now. No blends with this YET.....

Running 65% RL 15 and 35% RL 7 blend right now, looks good, same 460#13 NonCon 96/Blend, 2358 fps 50000 PSI... Good Potential with this as well.... Going to 99/Blend on this tomorrow...

Also 75%RL 15 + 25% H-4198 looks good 95/Blend 2340 fps and 49000 PSI so far, same 460.... Moving to 98......

Ordered two new .500 bullets, 525 and 475 #13 Solids with .600 nose projection in front the bands......... Curious to see how those do...............

M

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Todd, this was a dig at Michael's dislike of the .375 bore size in general. He "loves" his 9.3s for some reason. I guess he likes them because fewer people have them. maybe 375 is just to common.

NOTHING was said about big game hunting. Why is .375 in the AR "big bore forum", how knows. Traditionally big bores start at 450 and go up. 400 - 440 are generally large mediums.

Keith

Hey Keith,

Feel free to lump me in there with Michael on the dislike of .375s! I've used them a few times but have never been impressed with it the way some have. I lost a lot of interest in the caliber on my second brown bear hunt. 7 shots! Yea, he had his adrenalin up a bit and the first 4 shots were taken while he was running, but every bullet hit him in the chest cavity except No. 7 which hit him in the neck while standing above him as he attempted to snap at the guide during the walk up. Took 4 well placed shots into the lungs and shoulders with a 300gr TSX to drop him off of his feet. With every hit, he would tumble head first, land on his feet, and keep running as if nothing happened. The next three were taken to keep him anchored.

Two years previous, I took a brownie with the 416 Rigby. One shot and down. Then a second for insurance.

I'm just not impressed with the .375, even with well placed shots with very good bullets.

But I do like to joke around about rat calibers!

To each his own. I filled out my toy box with a matching 375 H&H and a 458 Lott. The middle with 30 cals, and 223 on the little end. Plus rim fires and several shotguns.

I (personally) do not have a need or want for anything in between. What the 30s do not cover, the 375 will. If that is not enough, then the Lott.

There are a lot of different animals that do not need a true big bore to put them down. They are to big for the 30s to do a good job and small enough the cannons are not needed. So a medium bore is a good choice.

You who only hunt DG only, are the exception. Feral/wild hogs will the closest I ever get to DG. Unless the circus comes to town and they have an escape.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:


Just a couple of tests so far, up to 92/V-N530 with that 460 NonCon that is obsolete, 2376 fps and 53000 PSI... Going to 94 +
Seems a good bit of room, I am thinking 2500 or so before topping out......... This means the newer 450 will run less pressure, the 500s run 2450+..... Or what I think right now. No blends with this YET.....

Running 65% RL 15 and 35% RL 7 blend right now, looks good, same 460#13 NonCon 96/Blend, 2358 fps 50000 PSI... Good Potential with this as well.... Going to 99/Blend on this tomorrow...

Also 75%RL 15 + 25% H-4198 looks good 95/Blend 2340 fps and 49000 PSI so far, same 460.... Moving to 98......

Ordered two new .500 bullets, 525 and 475 #13 Solids with .600 nose projection in front the bands......... Curious to see how those do...............

M

Mike, that V-N530 is looking mighty handy in the MDM.
That's great vels for low pressure.
Interested in seeing the 94gn load tested.

Your blended R15/R7 @65%/35% also looks very handy.

Whats the story behind the two new .500 slugs ?


Paul.

quote:

I'm just not impressed with the .375, even with well placed shots with very good bullets.

Well, I'm impressed.
For me the 375's make a pretty good 338. Put a tough bullet in them with a good BC and they can hold their own with the 338's. Plains game antelope take notice. Could be a very nice light rifle, just keep the weight of rifle and scope limited to 9.0 lbs or lighter.

Today, with the invent of these two bullets, .416 225 gr Raptor, and .458 250 Socom, then I see no need for Michael to ever ever ever go to the field with anything less than my 416 B&M. In particular, that little 18 inch gun, 38 inches Overall, 6.5 lbs no scope, 7.25 lbs with its current 2X7 Nikon, runs that 225 at 2900 fps. Now Michael is never likely to take much of a shot over 150 yards, and I can't see any reason in the world to do so, as if it is further, then find one that is closer....... I am no trophy hunter, but more of a shooter of opportunity, and I always have a close opportunity or make one. I took 15+ plains game with that 18 inch 458 of mine, running the 250 Socom at 2900 fps as well... Zebra, wildebeest, pigs, hartebeest, +++, I did not have to resort to LONG RANGE. But did shoot some even out to 125 yards or so, zero issue. Believe me, these two bullets perform on thin skinned critters, so much better than smaller bore guns, there is very little running and chasing animals around. Hit them in the front end, this show is over on the spot the vast majority of the time. Hit zebra with these, there is no running to it. Hit zebra with rat guns, it will kill them, but you are in for a run.

I have no reason to even consider going out with less than 416, and .458 fills the bill even better, and then one of my light .500s ups the ante on top of that........

Keith, need to shoot a pig or two with that 250 Socom in your 458 Lott! Just might be big fun. Naturally I keep a few 223s on hand loaded with zambie busters, 50 Raptors.... Wicked for zombies.... In those rare situations when one is faced with 10+ zombies of course, these come in handy...... LOL............

M

quote:

Mike, that V-N530 is looking mighty handy in the MDM.
That's great vels for low pressure.
Interested in seeing the 94gn load tested.

Your blended R15/R7 @65%/35% also looks very handy.

Whats the story behind the two new .500 slugs ?


Paul.

I think V-N530 is going to be a dandy 500 MDM powder. Possible good 500 B&M as well... Will have to see.

On the RL15/RL7 blend, these do look great. 75%RL15/25% RL7 did a good job, but still running a bit too slow, and I was running out of case capacity, not reaching upper end, hence the change to 65%/35%. Possible I might run into the same thing, but this is running close, so might go to 60%/40% next for that magic powder. If I could get to 2550 with the 450 Raptors, that would be approaching that one 5 lb of Magic RL 10X back in the day, where I hit 2600 fps with that 460 at 61000 PSI... That was only 1 5# can of RL 10X...... I also ran the 450 North Forks at 2750 fps with that can of RL 10X. All this in 21 inches of gun. There is a blend out there that can approach this again, I am confident of it. I just have to find it is all! However, I do have to question the effort! Hmmmm? I don't think I would ever use all that power in the field, just not needed or required. That 450#13HP at 2350-2400 is a buffalo buster, as you know. I think I am on a quest with this, but so be it.........

The two new solids? Just me diving deeper into depths of penetration with .500 caliber.......... Currently what we have is still more than enough.... Just me, I want more!!!!!!! HEH HEH.............. I just need to come down, and you and I get 4-5 buffalo lined up side by side and see how far we can go.............. :hillbilly:

M

quote:

Keith, need to shoot a pig or two with that 250 Socom in your 458 Lott! J

That is why I bought them, for pigs and everything smaller than a bull.

You should have seen what my 375 did to a 25 lb pig and a javalena.

Now lets get back to terminal performance.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Ordered two new .500 bullets, 525 and 475 #13 Solids with .600 nose projection in front the bands......... Curious to see how those do...............

M

I'm on my iPad and can't look anything up - but, didn't you run into limited penetration with the short nose on the original 458 B&M SS BBW#13 solids when compared with the Barnes .458 330gr BDN SLD FN... I seem to recollect you had to go with a minimum .700" nose projection above the upper band on the current 325gr Safari Solid to match the penetration of the Barnes.

Are you trying to limit the penetration of the .500s?

Jim

No, on all counts...

First, the big issue with Nose Projection in the #13s came when testing the solids developed for the lever guns, very short
nose projection of .435 or so, to work, feed through the Marlin lever guns.... With a 325 for the lever guns we were getting
something like 38-40 inches dead straight. I thought it should be far more, like the 330 Barnes going to 50 inches??? So
had CEB make up some #13s 325s with .600 nose projection in front of the bands, now these drove straight to 50-52 inches
because of that.

Now, enter .500 caliber..........

In the beginning Dan copied exactly a bullet that Sam had made, only back in the day it had a .585 nose projection, and this
ended up being our current 500 gr .500 caliber bullet, the one that has shot from 7-8 feet of elephant, several times now. Some time ago I thought to lengthen that nose projection, decided against it, since it worked so good anyway, and was just about the right length to easy load in the 50 B&M... So I left it. What I did do, was make a 450 gr #13 Solid with a .700 nose projection, and thinking added velocity and longer nose projection over .585 would buy a lot in depth of penetration. IT DID NOT. Around the best the 450 will do is 58-59 inches dead straight, I was a little disappointed in the fact I made no major gain here. The 500 gr #13 Solid consistently drives to 61-65 inches depending on velocity of course.

I have a 550 gr #13 Solid, can easy run to 2200 fps in 20 inches, it has the same nose projection, .585, as the 500 gr #13. I was hoping for a little more velocity, and I actually have not tested that bullet yet, since I have not put it in the field.

I intend to do these 475 and 525s with .600 nose projection, and test all of the .500 Solids again..... And include the North Fork 450s as well..........

Back to the range........ Doing some serious pressures with both Oehler and PT........

M

I have a set of questions on my wife's 270.

If she had a 180grain Woodleigh impact Michael's test medium at 2300fps, how many inches would it penetrate?
If she had a 180grain Woodleigh impact Michael's test medium at 2600fps, how many inches would it penetrate?

If she had a 160grain NoslerPartition impact Michael's test medium at 2400fps, how many inches would it penetrate?
If she had a 160grain NoslerPartition impact Michael's test medium at 2700fps, how many inches would it penetrate?

If she had a 150grain NorthFork softpoint impact Michael's test medium at 2500fps, how many inches would it penetrate?
If she had a 150grain NorthFork impact Michael's test medium at 2800fps, how many inches would it penetrate?

Finally, if she had a CEB 115 CopperRaptor impact at 2700fps, how far would it penetrate?
Pinally, if she had a CEB 115 CopperRaptor impact at 3000fps, how far would it penetrate?

Now I can guess that Michael isn't interested in the 270, but the same questions could be added for the 416's.
How much is gained or lost in penetration between 2200 fps and 2500fps impact for
Woodleigh 400grainers?
Nosler Part?
TSX 400 grain?
TTSX 350 grain (at 2400-2700fps)?
CEB 225 grain?

I guess I would like a little more information on depth of penetration and impact velocities. Maybe it would help cure me of sending everything downrange at 2800fps muzzle.

quote:

Jim

No, on all counts...

First, the big issue with Nose Projection in the #13s came when testing the solids developed for the lever guns, very shortnose projection of .435 or so, to work, feed through the Marlin lever guns.... With a 325 for the lever guns we were gettingsomething like 38-40 inches dead straight. I thought it should be far more, like the 330 Barnes going to 50 inches??? So had CEB make up some #13s 325s with .600 nose projection in front of the bands, now these drove straight to 50-52 inches because of that.

Michael,

You are correct! It was a comparison of the Lehigh/SST FN Solid that I was thinking of.

Goes to show the brain isn't functioning as well as it used to.

I think I need more coffee. Wife's been limiting the intake lately...have to change that...

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
....
Now I can guess that Michael isn't interested in the 270, but the same questions could be added for the 416's.
How much is gained or lost in penetration between 2200 fps and 2500fps impact for
Woodleigh 400grainers?
Nosler Part?
TSX 400 grain?
TTSX 350 grain (at 2400-2700fps)?
CEB 225 grain?

I guess I would like a little more information on depth of penetration and impact velocities. Maybe it would help cure me of sending everything downrange at 2800fps muzzle.

Tanz,

I think Michael has run tests on most of those bullets already. I'm having a coffee break right now, and on my laptop, so will try to search out the information unless Michael responds beforehand.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
I have a set of questions on my wife's 270.

If she had a 180grain Woodleigh impact Michael's test medium at 2300fps, how many inches would it penetrate?
If she had a 180grain Woodleigh impact Michael's test medium at 2600fps, how many inches would it penetrate?

If she had a 160grain NoslerPartition impact Michael's test medium at 2400fps, how many inches would it penetrate?
If she had a 160grain NoslerPartition impact Michael's test medium at 2700fps, how many inches would it penetrate?

If she had a 150grain NorthFork softpoint impact Michael's test medium at 2500fps, how many inches would it penetrate?
If she had a 150grain NorthFork impact Michael's test medium at 2800fps, how many inches would it penetrate?

Finally, if she had a CEB 115 CopperRaptor impact at 2700fps, how far would it penetrate?
Pinally, if she had a CEB 115 CopperRaptor impact at 3000fps, how far would it penetrate?

Now I can guess that Michael isn't interested in the 270, but the same questions could be added for the 416's.
How much is gained or lost in penetration between 2200 fps and 2500fps impact for
Woodleigh 400grainers?
Nosler Part?
TSX 400 grain?
TTSX 350 grain (at 2400-2700fps)?
CEB 225 grain?

I guess I would like a little more information on depth of penetration and impact velocities. Maybe it would help cure me of sending everything downrange at 2800fps muzzle.

Tanz...........

As basic rules all conventionals, which includes barnes TSX..... and for sure Woodleigh and Noslers, the higher the impact velocity the less depth of penetration

Except for the North Fork Softpoints, higher impact velocity more depth of penetration.

NonConventionals.... Higher impact velocity more depth of penetration.

While I state this as a rule of thumb, I have yet to see it proven wrong, so it is pretty much 100% on everything I ever tested here.

And NO I Will not be testing any 270 anythings, or 7 mm anythings or 375 anythings................. I don't own nor desire any of those calibers.....



9/5/2010 400 Barnes TSX Impact velocity 2421 fps 22 inches of penetration, found Sideways at 22 inches, lost stability...
9/5/2010 400 Nosler Partition Impact Velocity 2422 fps 21-23 inches of penetration. X2 Backwards at 21 inches.
1/15/2008 400 Swift A Frame Impact Velocity 2321 fps 21 inches of penetration.
1/18/2009 350 Swift A Frame Impact Velocity 2401 fps 18 inches of penetration.
1/15/2008 350 Barnes TSX Impact Velocity 2387 fps 18 inches of penetration.
3/9/2011 325 North Fork Soft Impact Velocity 2453 fps 17 Inches of Penetration
1/15/2008 300 Barnes TSX Impact Velocity 2653 fps 15 inches penetration.
9/5/2010 370 North Fork Soft Impact Velocity 2480 fps 20 inches of penetration.
4/21/2008 400 Hornady Interbond (Obsolete) Impact Velocity 2351 fps 14 inches of penetration.


9/6/2013 180 gr CEB Raptor MUZZLE Velocity 3195 fps 48 yd Impact 18 inches of penetration
9/6/2013 225 #13 CEB Raptor Impact Velocity 2755 fps 21 Inches of penetration
12/22/2010 325 #13 NonCon Raptor Impact Velocity 2468 fps 31 Inches of Penetration. This was Obsolete Smaller Cavity........


This is some of the bullets I have data on..........

Michael

Tanz,

Here’s what I found for the .416 caliber expanding bullets:
Terminal Bullet Performance thread – Posts by Michael458:
Page 52:

quote:

Now the funny thing is the 416 caliber 400 Interbonds, performed differently from the 458 versions????? I never bothered with any of the 416 DGX's. These were a little soft, but at least didn't break in the middle. Would make good thin skinned critter bullets.

Page 60:

quote:

Page 72:

quote:

[IMG]

Page 91:

quote:

370 North Fork Cup Point




Penetration excellent, trauma transfer excellent. An excellent buffalo hammer for 416.

Page 92:

quote:

First up, 400 Nosler Partition!



400 Nosler Partition does what Partitions do, shed the nose, which honestly was good 50 yrs ago or so, but I don't care for that these days myself. But I don't think that had much to do with overall penetration, the issue here is stabilization once again in 416 caliber. Still shooting the same 416 Rem in a Win M70 1:14 twist, not even the Noslers stabilized. Two of the 3 bullets tumbled near the end of penetration, and found backwards, penetration to 21 inches. The one that managed to stabilize dug in for an added 2 inches of penetration, to 23 inches, nose forward, and intact. Regardless of this, 21-23 inches is well within buffalo vitals, remember, 80% to 100% increase in penetration in animal tissue. So these will do!



Trauma inflicted was typical and good, no issues there.

quote:

Next up for EZ is the 400 Barnes TSX.



Still we see stability issues here too. I have no doubt had all three not tumbled near the end that a few more inches would have been added to total penetration. As it is, all 3 were found sideways in the medium.



Trauma inflicted good. For all expanding bullets I try and remember to put a card in at 4 inches inside the test medium. FYI

quote:

I tested these some time ago in one of the 416 B&Ms and I did not record any instability or recall any.

quote:

Back when the hair was black!

LOL…

Just had to throw these in as well…

quote:

Hey Capo and Sam, want to see the Pointy Capo Bullets??

quote:

Ok I don't have time to wait for a reply.

Remember these?



Well they are not so pointy now!

Page 93:

quote:

370gr North Fork Bonded

quote:

350gr Barnes X



If that velocity bleeds off a bit, penetration will increase as it does with the 416 B&M.

quote:

I don't even think that Hornady makes an Interbond anymore?? DGX now?



Another bullet that I am very fond of is the 400 gr Woodleigh Soft. It's a little different than some of it's larger cousins, or at least the batch I have is. It does not flatten like a pancake at velocity.



In 2005 I took a 416 Rem--(Of course it was a Winchester M70) to Tanzania as my light rifle. I had some buffalo loads, but never used them, mostly used it for plains game, things like that. Number one load for that rifle was a 340 Woodleigh, and WOW did it hammer stuff. I was so impressed with this bullet that I actually figured if the only bullet I could shoot in my 416 B&M was the 340 Woodleigh, then I could get by with that very well! I did figure that I was running too much velocity, and I got better performance at 2400-2450 fps than above 2500 fps, so the 340 Woodleigh in the 416 B&M is perfect. It would not be my first choice on buffalo, but it would be right up there for lion and bear!

Lot's of photos of this bullet!

quote:

Now, lets see, back to 416 and lets look at 350 Swift A frames! I like this bullet too. I used one a few years ago to take the first animal taken with a 416 B&M, a cow buffalo. Cow buffalo are great to shoot, just as tough as bulls I figure, and way less than half the price. I get just as much out of shooting cows as bulls, except the cost of! I hope to shoot a hell of a lot of them next year, of course along with some good bulls too! Lot's of test work to do you know!



Excellent penetration for a 350 416, and at velocity too! Pretty close to the same in 416 B&M also.



And of course this is the one I dug out of the buffalo. I want someone to tell me how useless this test work is, as it does not compare to real world crap!

Page 102:

quote:

Now, that being said, the experiment with the 416 NonCon did not go well. Small hollow point, thick blades/petals.





Sometimes it does--Sometimes it Does Not!

While penetration was fine, blades did shear, but not evenly. Blades did not shear at once, but along the wound channel. They were heavy, twice the weight of normal, did damage no doubt. But by shearing unevenly they did cause instability and inconsistency as you can see. I come up way short of calling it a failure, more like just not exactly what I am looking for. Maybe a little too unpredictable for me. Would they do the job--Oh yes, they are very effective and cause lot's of trauma. On predictable shots--broadsides, fine. Tough shots, like raking rear or frontal--hmmmmm..................??????

It was only a test, to see what happens--now we know. The production runs will have a bigger HP. Within the next week or two!

Page 115:

quote:

I received the new 325 gr CEB BBW #13 Brass HPs ordered for the 416 early in the week. Tested yesterday.



I expected pretty much close to the same results as I received with the 330 SSK/Lehigh, but I was proven wrong!





To be honest I always have been a little "Ho Hum" about 416 anything. I have to wonder if there is really much to one, when compared to a 458--.500! Yesterday, I began to get a little more excited about 416 caliber! This 325 CEB BBW #13 HP combined with the 350 CEB BBW #13 Solid--makes for one hell of a combination!

Ok, have to take the granddaughter home right now so searching and additional info will have to wait…

Michael, when these bullets tumble in you medium, it's my "impression" that they are tumbling in the last few inches of their penetration when at their lowest velocity and most unstable; and thus, this terminal tumbling is of minimal significance in the field. What do you think? Regards, AIU

Wow, that is an impressive gallery, Capo.

And Michael, thank you for the work. I understand the reluctance to test the little ones.

However, your picture of a .416 bullet with both 18" and 21" penetration leads to a question on penetration. Just where and how much, on AVERAGE, is gained or lost with varying speeds, be they non-con or conventional 'mushroom' rounds? Those three inches between 18 and 21 could have nixed the reputation of a bullet by a single trial.

It might be fun to document the increased penetration of a NorthFork as velocity increases, versus a conventional TTSX.
But to do so might need three rounds each for each impact velocity, and then again at intervals of 150-200 fps increases.
Just musing.


PS: down in the lowly small bore (< .38) realm they now have an all copper raptor/non con. That might be worth testing, even worth borrowing a little tiny bore rifle like a 270 the 338 has a 185 grain copper raptor that you could test. Or maybe you already did.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Michael, when these bullets tumble in you medium, it's my "impression" that they are tumbling in the last few inches of their penetration when at their lowest velocity and most unstable; and thus, this terminal tumbling is of minimal significance in the field. What do you think? Regards, AIU

AIU........ Yes, these 400 gr 416s give me a bit of a tumble, right at the END of penetration, last couple of inches. Are of little to now consequence in field operations at all....... I believe comes from 1:14 or slower twist rates, which most of mine are 1;14...... Less than 400s do not do that.

Cappy, man you got those photos, I reckon you must have these rather well cataloged and organized.....
Thanks.........

quote:

It might be fun to document the increased penetration of a NorthFork as velocity increases, versus a conventional TTSX.
But to do so might need three rounds each for each impact velocity, and then again at intervals of 150-200 fps increases.
Just musing.

Tanz...... I might put some thought into this for you. It probably might not be the same caliber or weights, but that is not really what we are looking for anyway. I know I have a decent supply of 325 gr North Fork Softs in .416, and I think I have a good supply of Barnes TSX 350s in .458. I am reluctant to purchase a bunch of TSX bullets, knowing I will not take them out to the field, but more than happy to deplete current in stock items........ When I can get some of these other projects near completion....

quote:

PS: down in the lowly small bore (< .38) realm they now have an all copper raptor/non con. That might be worth testing, even worth borrowing a little tiny bore rifle like a 270 the 338 has a 185 grain copper raptor that you could test. Or maybe you already did.

Nahhh...... Not screwing with a 270 anything, sorry... Waste of time. 338? Maybe....... Will consider............. I find it very difficult to
devote much coveted time to less than 416 caliber..... Every minute wasted on a rat gun is time I could have spent doing something of value and import!


M

quote:

Cappy, man you got those photos, I reckon you must have these rather well cataloged and organized.....Thanks.........

No, just have the thread split into manageable multiple pdf files on the laptop. I just ID parts of interest using the pdf files, ID the thread page number, and then extract from the live thread for the post. Works great on the laptop - can't do it on the iPad. Yesterday it worked well as I was killing time waiting for wife and granddaughter to get ready to leave the house; took a few hours by the way.

Should cut more discs once the thread passes the 300 page mark; I think a have a few days left before then...

Still owe Tanz some searching in later dates but will have to wait 'til this evening. The honey do list for today will be forthcoming shortly...

Currently,
some outstanding loads driving the 450gn Safari Raptor, in the .500MDM, at 2500fps
being worked up in "The Lab" !

Mike, thanks for your time in developiong and testing and thanks for sending me the results
for my files

Much appreciated

Paul.

Paul,

With those 450's in a 500 MDM you will be able to match that 500 Nitro with the 475's and 510's HEH HEH!

Sam

450 grains at 2500 is a nice load, getting over 6200ftlbs.

On a lighter note a friend sent me the following.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/4CDFxeB7Y-s

there are enough on this thread from Texas and California to appreciate the humor.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Paul,

With those 450's in a 500 MDM you will be able to match that 500 Nitro with the 475's and 510's HEH HEH!

Sam

But then he has to carry around all that extra weight and length... Enough to wear a fellow out I reckon!

Hey Keith,

Feel free to lump me in there with Michael on the dislike of .375s! I've used them a few times but have never been impressed with it the way some have. I lost a lot of interest in the caliber on my second brown bear hunt. 7 shots! Yea, he had his adrenalin up a bit and the first 4 shots were taken while he was running, but every bullet hit him in the chest cavity except No. 7 which hit him in the neck while standing above him as he attempted to snap at the guide during the walk up. Took 4 well placed shots into the lungs and shoulders with a 300gr TSX to drop him off of his feet. With every hit, he would tumble head first, land on his feet, and keep running as if nothing happened. The next three were taken to keep him anchored.

Two years previous, I took a brownie with the 416 Rigby. One shot and down. Then a second for insurance.

I'm just not impressed with the .375, even with well placed shots with very good bullets.

But I do like to joke around about rat calibers! [/QUOTE]


I had a similar experience with an Alaskan grizzly and .338 Win Mag with TSXs. He was laying on the carcass of the bear my partner had shot 2 or three days before. We were able to get to exactly 68 yards when I took the shot. Due to the frozen carcass I had a easy shot at his spine and not very much else. That left me with a close range, anchored but very much alive and lively in the front end grizzly to finish. Since I didn't want to wreck the skull I just plinked him through the chest, trying to shoot the wiggle it of him. If anything he was gaining strength and I got the distinct impression that I might as well have been throwing snowballs. The guide looked at looked at me quizzically and asked what kind of bullets I was using. 225 grain TSXs, exactly what he was using in his own rifle. We had been discussing bullets while stuck in a sandstorm and I had let it be known that I wasn't the biggest TSX fan that ever lived. He seemed to like them.

Not to drag out a long story any more than it has to be; I had a couple 285 grain A-Frames in my belt pouch. One of those put an abrupt end to the proceedings.

In your example, I'd take a long hard look at the TSXs rather than the caliber. I killed a pile on stuff in Africa with that 300 grain TSX .375 and followed everything that wasn't spined or double shouldered. The hardest of bullets might be great for buffalo but are lackluster on more lightly constructed critters.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
Hey Keith,

Feel free to lump me in there with Michael on the dislike of .375s! I've used them a few times but have never been impressed with it the way some have. I lost a lot of interest in the caliber on my second brown bear hunt. 7 shots! Yea, he had his adrenalin up a bit and the first 4 shots were taken while he was running, but every bullet hit him in the chest cavity except No. 7 which hit him in the neck while standing above him as he attempted to snap at the guide during the walk up. Took 4 well placed shots into the lungs and shoulders with a 300gr TSX to drop him off of his feet. With every hit, he would tumble head first, land on his feet, and keep running as if nothing happened. The next three were taken to keep him anchored.

Two years previous, I took a brownie with the 416 Rigby. One shot and down. Then a second for insurance.

I'm just not impressed with the .375, even with well placed shots with very good bullets.

But I do like to joke around about rat calibers!

I had a similar experience with an Alaskan grizzly and .338 Win Mag with TSXs. He was laying on the carcass of the bear my partner had shot 2 or three days before. We were able to get to exactly 68 yards when I took the shot. Due to the frozen carcass I had a easy shot at his spine and not very much else. That left me with a close range, anchored but very much alive and lively in the front end grizzly to finish. Since I didn't want to wreck the skull I just plinked him through the chest, trying to shoot the wiggle it of him. If anything he was gaining strength and I got the distinct impression that I might as well have been throwing snowballs. The guide looked at looked at me quizzically and asked what kind of bullets I was using. 225 grain TSXs, exactly what he was using in his own rifle. We had been discussing bullets while stuck in a sandstorm and I had let it be known that I wasn't the biggest TSX fan that ever lived. He seemed to like them.

Not to drag out a long story any more than it has to be; I had a couple 285 grain A-Frames in my belt pouch. One of those put an abrupt end to the proceedings.

In your example, I'd take a long hard look at the TSXs rather than the caliber. I killed a pile on stuff in Africa with that 300 grain TSX .375 and followed everything that wasn't spined or double shouldered. The hardest of bullets might be great for buffalo but are lackluster on more lightly constructed critters.[/QUOTE]

I don't know. I like the TSX immensely. That brownie I took with the 416 Rigby was also taken with a TSX bullet (one shot and down, then an insurance shot). I've killed 2 lion and 2 leopard with the TSX as well, all of those being thin skinned DG. Both leopard being dead under the tree, so no issue with performance from a "too hard bullet". Not to mention that I've probably taken well north of 50 other game animals ranging from Steenbuck to Eland, in calibers from .243 to 500NE with the TSX bullets. Never had one fail and most animals have dropped in their tracks with a single shot. I find it very hard to fault the TSX bullets based on my experience with them, but I've had some less than stellar performance out of the 375 H&H on occasion. I just prefer the 416 Rigby when there is a choice as the Rigby is just more of everything the 375 is.

Actually, when it comes right down to it, I just don't find the .375 to be very interesting. I've killed a lot of animals with it but have just never been bitten by the ".375 is the holy grail bug". I just find larger calibers to be more fun to hunt with.

I'll stand by my diagnosis. I'd be a little less than 100 animals with the TSXs(.25-.416), and like you have taken steinbuck to eland with them. I can even throw in giraffe and buffalo for Africa, and a pretty good swath of the Americas. Although it doesn't fit in exactly with the big bore section I've shot TSXs against a common cup and core and premium bonded bullets on Australian cull hunts and know I can reproduce those results on demand. After a bit it gets rather obvious which animals ran and which ones didn't. They are great for shooting through things lengthwise though. Sometimes that's important.

Not being my favorite is a long ways from being useless. You seem to have done very well with them, and if only measured by numbers of dead things I suppose I have too.

For what its worth, I like my .458 more than my .375s.

It's like I told Kebco at DSC..... No matter what bullet you put in a 375, it won't make it a 458........... In fact, there is just nothing you
can do to ANY 375 caliber anything that will make it as effective as a real rifle. The only hope, is take the case, make it a bigger caliber, I used
to keep a lot of 375hh brass around, makes good 458 Lott brass..... I have over 3500 pieces of 375RUM right now, turning it into 500 caliber cases, now 375 is good for something...............

Michael

What's a 375?

quote:

Originally posted by brent ebeling:
What's a 375?

A starter DG rifle best suited for women and children.



Certainly NOT a caliber worthy of discussion on the "Big Bore" forum as it's clearly a "medium bore"!

quote:

A starter DG rifle best suited for women and children.

Hey, that is a noble task.

A few years ago I picked up a rifle that my wife could use in the US. My son had thought that it was just a plinker for everyone but was surprised to find that it was a "lefty". "Hey, this really is mom's rifle." Absolutely. Anyone wants to shoot it they ask her and she's proud of shooting little half-inch groups.

Even though it is only a 270, there are now copper raptor bullets with decent BC's for it (0.405 BC, 115 grains CEB all-copper raptor). Pretty nice. But she will eventually want something more substantial for Africa and with a nice lefty bolt. Two rifle combinations had caught my eye and were promising for the next step up. Ruger had a nice little 338 Ruger Compact Magnum. Cute and in a tight little package. Theyre still available as new "oldstock", even though currently discontinued by Ruger. And there is always the old standby calibre, a 9.3x62. Tikka makes accurate, modestly priced, lightweight, lefty versions. Potentially more appealling than the 338RCM. But . . . neither one is buffalo-legal in Tanzania.

Someday she'll want to shoot one of the dark beasts on her own license, you know, that animal browsing in forest shadows, that looks back at us two-leggers and with an unmistakable scowl, "You owe me money." So there is a nice handling package for her, the lefty version of a 375 Ruger.

BUT then I re-read a piece like Ganyana's advice here:
http://www.shakariconnection.com/bullet-wounds.html
I start thinking that maybe a 375 is only an antelope gun. (I don't eat rats, and it sometimes sounds like Michael doesn't eat antelope.)
Animals surviving double-lung shots and liver shots are a tough datum to plan for. It doesn't matter that we've successfully harvested buff with a 270, 300, or 338. What is the right thing to do for the future?

So if we love our wives, sons, and daughters, should we let them hunt a buffalo with less than .40" calibre?

quote:

So if we love our wives, sons, and daughters, should we let them hunt a buffalo with less than .40" calibre?

Tanz,

Simple, a little 458 B&M SS! Small and lightweight package and with the correct bullets it is buffalo ready. Darn cute little critter too...

quote:

So if we love our wives, sons, and daughters, should we let them hunt a buffalo with less than .40" calibre?

Following up on this, I should ask members on the list to let Ruger know if they would like to see left handed versions of inexpensive models of the 416Ruger cartridge?

In the reasonably near future, I would only get my wife a 375Ruger because a left-handed 416 Ruger was unavailable. Surely there are some left-handed Alaskans who would like to see a re-run of the Ruger Alaskan in 416 Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

So if we love our wives, sons, and daughters, should we let them hunt a buffalo with less than .40" calibre?

Tanz,

Simple, a little 458 B&M SS! Small and lightweight package and with the correct bullets it is buffalo ready. Darn cute little critter too...

They are a very cute package. I think the regular B&M would be the best.

Now if they only came in left-hand around $900 total price. My wife would never want 2-3k spent on her rifle.

Simple, a little 458 B&M SS! Small and lightweight package and with the correct bullets it is buffalo ready. Darn cute little critter too...[/QUOTE]

They are a very cute package. I think the regular B&M would be the best.

Now if they only came in left-hand around $900 total price. My wife would never want 2-3k spent on her rifle.[/QUOTE]


Around $900 and a donor rifle would get you a B&M caliber rifle from SSK Ind. Its when you start adding sights, barrel band, Guncote finish and wood prices go up.

As an allaround rifle I want to put a vote in for the 416 B&M -its good to go with the 325/350 combo for DG and the 225 for plains game with less recoil.

Did winchester make the WSM's in a left handed action?

This thread has gotten



Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
This thread has gotten



Keith

Which seems to happen every time .375 is mentioned on this thread ... which is listed under BIG BORES!

The B&M rifles are so cute that when your done hunting with them you can hang them from your rear view mirror.