Really glad to see SSK finally has B&M rifle info up on their website. They do need more pics of the rifles however. Congrats to Jaun for the good work!

Looks great Micheal!

BTW, since I read on the internet that wet pack is an improper test medium,I starting thinking.....I think I have found a solution, we will mold blocks of marshmallow,

All you need is the biggest Hobart they make and I got the recipe!

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Really glad to see SSK finally has B&M rifle info up on their website. They do need more pics of the rifles however. Congrats to Jaun for the good work!

Brian and I have been after JD to do something with the website since 2007... Hell it was outdated back then! LOL..... Finally the old site got so outdated that one could not work with it at all, so it was a new site or nothing........ She volunteered to sort it out, and what would normally only take a week or so has taken months on end... But it is getting there finally....... I tried to not be too involved, but did a little with the B&M part of the site and told JD if there was anything he did not like or wanted to change he certainly could, but I think he is satisfied with that part of the site.... Not much I can help out with on the other parts....... I think it looks pretty spiffy.........

http://sskindustries.com


M

Seasons....

Sorry I missed your call the other day... Will catch up this week...

Yeah some giant marshmallow test medium, seems to be pretty tough on a 50 BMG bullet.... HEH.... Its hard to imagine a 750 or so grain 50 BMG bullet can't make it through more than a couple of feet of marshmallow peeps before going off course........

quote:

I read on the internet that wet pack is an improper test medium,

No telling what sort of BS one might encounter.... HEH...... Thing is, all of the detractors of the test medium to a man, HAVE NEVER DONE IT..... Never tested the first bullet! Have zero experience testing bullets! But yet are the experts...... Hmmmmm? Makes me wonder........... And yet, Here We Are...... Using bullets in the field that are 100% successful in every way, and they BEHAVE 100% in animal tissue exactly as they behave in the test medium, now with literally 100s of animals taken and in every single case each and every single bullet has behaved exactly the same as in the test medium...... I would venture to guess that the detractors of test work could just be full of sh*t..................

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
...I tried to not be too involved, but did a little with the B&M part of the site and told JD if there was anything he did not like or wanted to change he certainly could, but I think he is satisfied with that part of the site....

The only suggestion I would make is to turn that "wall of text" into multiple paragraphs.
http://sskindustries.com/bm-rifles-and-cartridges/

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Seasons....

Sorry I missed your call the other day... Will catch up this week...

Yeah some giant marshmallow test medium, seems to be pretty tough on a 50 BMG bullet.... HEH.... Its hard to imagine a 750 or so grain 50 BMG bullet can't make it through more than a couple of feet of marshmallow peeps before going off course........

quote:

I read on the internet that wet pack is an improper test medium,

No telling what sort of BS one might encounter.... HEH...... Thing is, all of the detractors of the test medium to a man, HAVE NEVER DONE IT..... Never tested the first bullet! Have zero experience testing bullets! But yet are the experts...... Hmmmmm? Makes me wonder........... And yet, Here We Are...... Using bullets in the field that are 100% successful in every way, and they BEHAVE 100% in animal tissue exactly as they behave in the test medium, now with literally 100s of animals taken and in every single case each and every single bullet has behaved exactly the same as in the test medium...... I would venture to guess that the detractors of test work could just be full of sh*t..................

Michael

Not a problem Michael, I look forward to hear from you this week.

I still find it interesting with all the data that is displayed on this thread we still have people who can't or won't wrap their head around the proven results!... all they are distractions and will continue to be entertainment

I will continue to kill wet pack as needed, not enough time to always shoot game and goats would be too messy..

Now back to serious business....I made a mistake in my report

Whitworth's pig the image shown is actually the entrance wounds. I was looking over my pictures and the other side you can see blade exits! Pretty impressive tissue damage

http://s1158.photobucket.com/u...zps9ab5c902.jpg.html

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
...I tried to not be too involved, but did a little with the B&M part of the site and told JD if there was anything he did not like or wanted to change he certainly could, but I think he is satisfied with that part of the site....

The only suggestion I would make is to turn that "wall of text" into multiple paragraphs.
http://sskindustries.com/bm-rifles-and-cartridges/

I agree, would make it a bit easier to read.

Tanks...
Yes, I see that..... Wall of Text.... HEH.... Will check on that and let her sort that out......

Currently I have her busy on the B&M videos.... If you have not seen Brent Ebling stopping a cow elephant last year with 500 MDM and 500#13 Solid I have it on the B&M page... direct link below, and scroll down until you see Brent and his 500 MDM........

http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/500-MDM.html

The other one is on the 416 B&M Page, me shooting a couple of cow buffalo with Paul in Australia with the 225 Raptors...... Scroll down until you see Paul and I.......

http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/416-B-M.html

And Jaun is working on several more over the next few days...........

Michael

Just saw both videos... Good work to you both. And Michael, I don't think you sound 'funny' at all!

Juan's doing a great job with the website. Thank you Juan!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by capoward:
Just saw both videos... Good work to you both. And Michael, I don't think you sound 'funny' at all!

Juan's doing a great job with the website. Thank you Juan![/QUOTE

+1!

Cool vids working here too.
Yea though they walk through the valley of the shadow of death, the B&M and the CEB comfort them.
The gospel according to MIB.
Doc M is just trying to save some heathens.
Nothing like a good video to convert a heathen.

Mike,
firstly to Jaun for her excellent work on SSK's web site. Great work !

Next, I went to the B&M web site to look at these vids that you note above.

Brought back great memories.

Great company,
Great country,
Great animals and some great hunting and shooting

I had a blast, LITERALLY !

Michael

Some details on the kudu.
Rifle: Ruger No1-H Tropical, 24" barrel
Calibre: 416 Rigby
Load: .416 370gr Safari Raptor at 2280fps

Scenario: Day 5 of the hunt at dusk, difficult area, very dense and green, lots of kudu bull tracks but no sightings due to dense cover. Spotted the bull at 100yds down a trail browsing, quickly followed up and spooked a couple of warthog. Froze after spooking the warthog and waited. We were just about to give up and return to camp when I spotted the legs of the kudu 30yds away walking to our right. He walked into a slightly more open area behind some dead brush and started turning away from us.
I took a severe quartering away shot through some brush, lots of stuff up to 3/4" thick. One of those shots that you know one shouldn't take but is the only opportunity that is going to be offered.
At the shot the kudu bucked and lifted the on side front leg very high, he took off at 3/4 speed.
I managed to get another shot in when he turned to the right after 25yds.

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

[IMG:left] [/IMG]


At autopsy the R kidney was completely destroyed and the liver was ripped into pieces nothing bigger than a tennis ball.
The bullet penetrated trough the L lung and was recovered in the pleural cavity. The kudu left a blood spoor that could be followed in braille and was dead after 120yds.

Balule....

Excellent report........ I have taken my fair share of those less than perfect shots myself, sometimes not nearly as successful as I had hoped.... Tree branches are a big problem, especially for me, I tend to hit at least one on every trip!

It amazes me at how some few animals can go so far when everything inside them is destroyed!!!!!!!!!

Bullet looks good, did its job.......

You bring up a valid point that I am not sure is made as often as it should, an animal hit with one of these Raptors pours blood in buckets........... More than I have ever seen from any other bullet..........

Thanks for the report..............

Curious, how did you come across the CEBs????

M

Michael

I learned about CEB here on AR. Have been shooting Dzombo flatnose solids since 2007.
However when my wife got her 500 NE single shot I needed something lighter for her to shoot and explored CEB a bit more.
We have got a guy here, David du Toit from Dioselrey Outfitters who is an agent for CEB.
Through him I put in an order and he imported a couple of hundred for me in .510, .416 and for the rat gun.

Balule......

Excellent, thanks for info.... I am going to go visit with David when I leave for South Africa in a few weeks....

M

Impressive video of CEB solid, on a wounded buffalo with the 550 Mag.

Video

Keith

Boys, been a little slow here on terminals eh?.......... HEH... Figured it would be after what we have done, really where does one go from here anyway?........ No, I don't really want anymore ideas, regardless of terminals having slowed to a stop, I still manage to fill all those available hours with something.............

Keith...... Remember our conversation about these handgun bullets, well over a year ago, maybe more???? The boys at CEB did a fantastic job on these. I have been working fairly extensively with the 90 9mm bullet and the 150 gr 45 ACP, loading and shooting a good many to be honest, and they are GOOD to say the least........ I have fired over 500 bullets in each of these cartridges so far..... Accuracy is incredible, better than I can shoot, and this from either handgun or carbine....... I have yet to do terminals on the 9mm bullet, but I have no doubt as to its performance........

CEB has taken this a step further now, and there is "Factory Loaded" Ammo available in 380, 9mm, 40 SW, and 45 ACP..............

https://cuttingedgebullets.com...action&category=PHDA


I have a few boxes of these coming in to check out........... Even though I load my own for the bulk.

quote:

Keith...... Remember our conversation about these handgun bullets, well over a year ago, maybe more???? The boys at CEB did a fantastic job on these.

Yeap, it's been a while back now it is great to see it come to pass. ( 2+ yrs?)

CEB did a great job bringing these top end PD bullets to market.

Keith

Doc M has received another honorary PHD.
But this one ain't from MIB.

Great to see factory ammo by CEB,

I know the response has been very positive, and for me personally its what I carry!

Loaded rifle ammo soon?

I was doing a search for a vent liners for my Savage ML II and found these bullets.....they look a little familiar

http://www.lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=31

quote:

Originally posted by coyote wacker:
I was doing a search for a vent liners for my Savage ML II and found these bullets.....they look a little familiar

http://www.lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=31

Yep, they should.... Back before CEB I was working with JD on some bullets, most of what you see comes from JD. I was having many of those bullets done in .500 caliber for the 50 B&M and 50 B&M Super Shorts....... Both in copper and brass. Early I still thought I needed the weight and SD, so I was doing a lot of copper, and did not really understand at the time how the brass actually worked. Depth of cavity is a little deep on the ones I got years ago, at .5 inches deep, shear was not quite as even with those. Same principle however.........

To get where I wanted to be was a problem however. I did not have direct contact with Lehigh, David Fricke. I went through JD for everything. This left something to desire when attempting to tweak or change anything. JD did not mind my direct input, and I tried several times to contact Fricke myself, but to no avail. Would not return calls, and would not answer my direct emails..... The last bullets I ordered was a 450 gr brass HP, I only ordered 500 of them, and it took 7 Months to get them.

This told me Fricke was not interested in anything I had to say, or even my business. So finding Dan Smitchko and Cutting Edge Bullets was a God Send for me personally and my desires for a better designed bullet. Not only was Dan willing to work with me, but so much so that he was willing to make smaller lots of bullets for me to test. For instance, the BBW#13 took several generations to get to where it is now, not just the nose profile, but the radius edge, the bands, and all sorts of tweaking. This could not be possible without someone that was willing to speak with you, and take the time and effort to lend assistance to get to the objective. Without Dan and Cutting Edge Bullets, we would not have the performance levels we now have today with these bullets........ And, further more, our boys at North Fork did exactly the same as Dan did at Cutting Edge.

This is one of the reasons I urge all of you guys to use the CEB and North Fork bullets. Both companies were not only interested, but took the time to work with all of us to provide us with a greater success rate in the field. They are both interested in real terminal performance, and both are willing to take the time to get it right. Try talking to Hornady or Barnes about terminal performance and see what you get! Forget Lehigh, you might get some bullets 6 months down the road if you are lucky, and forget trying to talk to anyone about it..........

Support those who support YOU....... Cutting Edge Bullets and North Fork Tech, there is no reason to go elsewhere.......

Michael

I couldn’t agree more; CEB and NF are definitely the go-to companies…

There something to be said about fantastic companies who get it and great people.

It looks like Fricke's loss.....CEB, NF and everybody that uses there bullets gain........

I just got a box of CEB long-range 235 gn raptors in .375" for my wife's new rifle. Looking forward to testing them. The BC is a respectable .337.

Two other companies should be mentioned when it comes to bullet integrity/penetration and better BC's: Barnes has a 250 gn TTSX .375" with a .424 BC and GSC has 200, 250, and 265 gn hollow point monolithics, all with huntable BC's. I got a box of Barnes and a box of GSC 200's.

We'll just have to see which bullets shoot the most accurately in her 375Ruger, 20" barrel. That will likely become an all-around bullet for her. (The 200gn GSC, though, would need heavier backup for a buffalo.) Hopefully, accuracy nodes can be found around 2600fps.

quote:

Two other companies should be mentioned when it comes to bullet integrity/penetration and better BC's: Barnes has a 250 gn TTSX .375" with a .424 BC

I don't think barnes deserves SH*T........... They are a bunch of traitorous bastards to Terminal Performance with their RN antics a couple years ago, and I personally would not give them any high marks "as a company"..... So no, I don't think they deserve even a vague mention........... barnes is no longer the barnes of some years ago, they are now part of the corporate mentality, and run by a bunch of accountants, not shooters, not hunters, so they will get no mention from me ever......... I would not put fu*king two cents towards barnes.......

GSC another story, geared towards shooters and hunters, and at least have some concerns about terminal performance.

barnes.........

quote:

barnes.........

Don't hold anything back. Tell exactly what you think!

Calm down please !
I see that in the handgun rounds the 40 S&W is 120 grains . That seems very light .
When my HK M10 was about to come on the market they stopped and re-tested it to make sure the then newest 135 gr rounds would function. The 120 is another significant weight reduction . I wonder if there are function problems with some guns ??

Michael,

We all felt betrayed by Barnes semi-roundnose replacement of their nice flatnose solids. But everyone makes mistakes, especially when corporates like Remington's owners take over. A little mercy, even for unrepentants like Barnes, goes a long way.

On the other hand, Barnes 'has taken one for team.' For two and a half years the BATF boys have shut down virtually all of Barnes' sales of solids, alleging that the bullets are armor-piercing pistol rounds. While Barnes solids are shut down, other companies remain in the lurch. While we might call this a kind of poetic justice for Barnes, this attack on Barnes is an attack on all hunters. When and if the BATF feel strong enough, they will probably come after the rest of the industry and we will all have problems finding good solids. Barnes' has the BATF decision on appeal, but it appears that the wheels of government are moving purposefully slowly. Will we have to wait until 2017 for movement? I'm grateful that we have CEB and GSC solids available for the moment. But for how long?

Meanwhile, my wife and I will be testing the CEB 235 ExtendRange Raptor, GSC 200 HV, and Barnes 250gn TTSX in 375 Ruger. (Yes, it is a nice girlie gun.) All three bullets are potential winners. First test later this week will focus on velocities and fairly light loads, but we may get an idea of what her gun will like. I'm trying to get used to thinking of the 375 as the new "338," my old favorite for reaching across the plains and which is still is use without plans for retirement, even when the 416 gets the nod when grabbing for an 'all-around' rifle. Yes, a government is involved in my wife's 375, too, since Tanzania doesn't write buffalo licenses for 9.3's or 338's.

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Calm down please !
I see that in the handgun rounds the 40 S&W is 120 grains . That seems very light .
When my HK M10 was about to come on the market they stopped and re-tested it to make sure the then newest 135 gr rounds would function. The 120 is another significant weight reduction . I wonder if there are function problems with some guns ??

Calm and Cool, no worries, just tell it like I see it is all............

I don't run a 40, so I really can't say much, but the 150s in 45 ACP are VERY LIGHT for caliber, and I have not had any issues at all running several different sorts of 45 ACP, even carbines...... Now, I did have an issue with the Kimber Ultras, very short guns. At first I was running that 150 at 1100 fps in the Ultras, this was evidently too fast, and I experiences some issues. Seems the slide was cycling too fast for the gun to function. I slowed those down to 1050 and the Ultras run slick as can be, zero issues.... 5 inch 1911s no issues fast or slower...... Carbines no issues with anything......

The 90 gr 9mm I am running run in the small Kahrs, BHPs, Colt, Beretta Carbines, HKs, and any other 9s I have......

I would suspect the 40s run as well, but really can't say for 100% sure..........

M

quote:

A little forgiveness, even for unrepentants like Barnes, goes a long way

Tanz..... Since I have not heard of barnes admitting to their sins, they will get no forgiveness from me.

As for them "Taking one for the Team", I don't think so, they just got screwed is all, and from what I understand another two bit AR Pistol making company was altering the 223 bullets from barnes, and they got caught up in it. I don't see that as taking one for the team, I don't see barnes as a team player, or they would have never done what they did with the RN bull sh*t.... What part of a team is that? Not one I want to be on......... As for making solids, copper is not an issue, make all the solids copper if there ever were an issue........ Currently all of North Fork is copper....... GSC is copper... Easy conversion to copper for CEB if needed..... For that matter, barnes would be within the law by going to copper.... If they wanted to be a team player, why not make them in copper? They don't sell enough solids to justify it is why, ain't about being a "Team Player", its about money..........

Support them if you want, I choose not to, and again, no forgiveness from me....

M

I was sent a great Hunting Story this morning, from a fellow that I only started speaking to back in Mid March, Danny Lee.......

Danny had been talking to CEB some, and had been working with the 300 ESP Raptor in his 458 Winchester on some wild hogs, with incredible success, according to Danny, several hogs, big ones, all consistently DRT... "Dead Right There"........

Danny was on a bear hunt going to Prince of Wales Island for black bear come May 1. He had been speaking to CEB in which they recommended the 250 Socom to him, and also sent him in my direction for some guidance of what and how to load these. I sent info that I had on 458 Winchester and the 250 Socom, and as some recall I had just completed a decent bit of pressure work in 458 Winchester with these exact bullets........

Danny Lee got his 250 Socoms loaded to around 2700 fps in his 458. And on May 1 took off on his bear hunt.



Below are some excerpts from Danny Lee's Story he sent........Danny uses third person in his story....

quote:

Does one need a "stopper" rifle for Alaskan black bear? No, of course not. But it added an element to the hunt that he wanted, a DRT result. He'd come full circle to long ago, one shot, DRT, no tracking.

Which meant the right bullet. Many were considered, all with good reputations, some excellent. Another good friend, long a hunter, suggested looking into C.E.B., Cutting Edge Bullets, a Pennsylvania based company. Impressed with their bullet philosophy and commitment to quality, a few boxes of 300 grain with Tip were purchased and judiciously loaded. A nearby SC plantation had a problem with hogs. Loading up his old Land Cruiser, he headed there with, if not the solution, at least some relief. Results left no doubt whatsoever about the C.E.B.'s ability to deliver DRT. Trauma and terminal performances were most impressive! Overkill? No such thing.

Further discussions with C.E.B. resulted in choosing a 260 grain bullet for Alaska, a bullet already well proven on large African game. A prudent load yielded 2,700 fps. Another vital step in the "one shot" plan firmly cemented. The unknown was
the bear, when and where, but confidence in the rifle and bullet combination was 100%.

quote:

He waits for the bear to extend the front leg. One last confirmation in the scope. Mind and body will the crosshairs still. The trigger is coming back. There is no sound, no recoil. Absolutely nothing. Just an eerie silence, an empty vacuum in the universe as the bear literally collapses into his footprints where he’d stood. DRT, not a single step. The bolt rocks back and forth, another round into the chamber, the sight picture shows no movement. Nada. 10 long seconds later, the hunter comes out of the scope, clasps the Guide's hand, genuinely appreciative, thanking him and the Spirits for presenting this magnificent bear.

A very good hunting story, what you see above is just relevant to the Terminal Performance, and nothing more, and the reason we are all here today is for the results that Danny Lee Experienced.......... In the story Danny has some great photos, however, I have not been able to extract those from the document to be able to post. If I can accomplish this, I will post a few pics as well.........

Congratulations on a successful Hunt Danny............

Michael

Another great story for the CEB quiver.

Michael,

Just a thought on the action of the CEB on animals, from your post on the "versatile" thread. Trying to make sense of all of your observations.

Since it is primarily large animals with large bore CEB raptors that are affected, where smaller bores (<40) have less effect, it appears that the center flat-nose slug is doing the primary work and game-dropping trauma. Here is the reasoning:

Lesser calibre also have the petals spreading out, and they certainly spread out far enough to drop animals DRT if they were doing most of the work. On deer size animals it appears that that is exactly the case. However, on larger animals, the petals do not seem to have that DRT effect and it is the flatnose slug that does that primary job of dropping them DRT. That may explain why a noticiable increase in trauma happens over 40 on buffalo sized animals. Also, it is known that flat-nose full-cylinders have a very disruptive wound channel.

In other words, on large animals the petals have a relatively smaller effect, so that the medium bores cannot overcome their lack of diameter in the main cylinder projectile.

Maybe a malaria analogy can be useful, too. Some anti-malarials use two drugs, where one may work but two produce DRT results. The petals and the cylinder are like a double punch, but large animals need an over-40 flat-nose.

I've posted here in terminals, where this belongs.

Tanz,

As you know Michael has departed for his hunt so a response may take a few weeks (or more) to come from the sage…

So guess you’ll just have to put up with the ‘peanut gallery’s’ 2¢ worth… So here it comes from this end of the PG…

The CEB Raptors do not make up for an ‘under-calibered’ or ‘marginal-calibered’ cartridge but the Raptors do make all relating calibers much more efficient killing wise for hunted game appropriate to the specific caliber or calibers. Hope that makes sense!

Some folks will argue the 9.3 caliber cartridge is sufficient for all DG including elephant while others will argue that a 50 caliber cartridge should be used for elephant and that 40’s caliber is sufficient for all other DG game. Where does the truth lie????

The truth is any game animal no matter its size can be stopped by a small caliber bullet that transects it nervous system and killed by one that transects its brain. With the caveat that humans have survived bullets to the brain so there’s little reason to believe that a game animal would not also survive if the bullet does not also cause damage to the brain beyond just transecting it.

The truth also is that if the brain or the nervous system are not transected by the fired shot, or fragments of the bullet, that a larger caliber bullet will ‘get the attention of’ and ‘cause greater damage to’ an aggressive DG animal than will a smaller caliber bullet especially the larger the DG animal.

Myself, I fall into the ‘use more than you need’ category rather than the ‘smallest legal caliber’ category since the bullet POI may not match the POA because ‘stuff happens' and I want to kill as quickly and humanly as possible.

I've re-written this a couple of times so I hope when I hit the 'post now button' it's what I wanted to say - 'cause we're headed to the store and I won't read this for an hour or so...

Cappy..... I am still here to a point anyway. In Pretoria until Tuesday morning. Internet is spotty however, and somewhat more of a problem than last year....

Tanz brought this up from a post I did yesterday on the versatile thread below, and what I was talking about is how effective caliber is, and somehow Tanz got off on a tangent about the blades...

quote:

The CEB Raptors do not make up for an ‘under-calibered’ or ‘marginal-calibered’ cartridge but the Raptors do make all relating calibers much more efficient killing wise for hunted game appropriate to the specific caliber or calibers.

Almost exactly the point I was trying to make.

Of all the animals I have shot the last 20 years with both conventional and the new Raptors, it comes down to nearly exactly the same, caliber makes a hell of a difference! Larger calibers are plainly more effective than smaller ones, regardless of bullet. Back in the old days before the mighty Raptors, I used Swifts, Woodleighs, TSX and a few other more conventional bullets. Shooting in those days 338, 358, 416, 458 calibers. Very simply the larger calibers hit with more authority when observing animal reactions with all the really good conventional bullets.

Now comes the mighty Raptor. In ALL CALIBERS the Raptor exceeds damage, and trauma inflicted on any animal than its conventional cousin in the same caliber. Regardless if it is the 50 gr 223 Raptor, or any of the various .500s that I have experience with, the Raptor inflicts more damage, more trauma, and more animal reaction to taking the bullet than its conventional counterpart.

Now it came to mind, that the Raptor is so wicked, that it just might turn a 9.3 or a 375 into a more deadly caliber on LARGER animals than they have proven to be in the past. Yes, the Raptors did enhance each caliber to more than it was before, with conventionals, more tissue destruction, more trauma inflicted, more of everything.

But even the mighty Raptor does not make a 9.3 or 375 into a .458 or .500 caliber! Even the Raptor cannot make these rat calibers into big bores! While buffalo continue to take extreme notice to being hit with .458-.500 caliber Raptors....... Buffalo are still not all that impressed with 9.3/375 Raptors. Yep, they enhance the caliber, but they still don't make rat guns into big bore rifles......... and that was the point I was trying to get across......

What we have seen back home in SC in lots of rat calibers for deer has been amazing, according to all my guys that are using them. To date, probably well over a 100 deer now with anything from 50 gr 223 Raptors to 100 gr .308 Raptors, and nothing escapes these bullets, and stellar performance compared to common bullets. So correct, animals such as deer taken with deer and rat calibers are DRT 90% of the time or so with the Raptors. Move the ante up to larger animals not so much so, yep, kills the hell out of them, but big difference in animal reaction taking the hit. Every step up in caliber you will see the animals react more to the shot........

M

Enjoy your visit Michael and rest up - then head out and have a safe enjoyable productive hunt! And the same wishes for Mark David!