Michael,

While you are rambling and we are off topic, I want to poll the crew here. I need a new reloading press , are ya'll using single stage or progressive loaders on these big rounds?

SSR

Happy Birthday to me!!!

No, not really my birthday but I feel some presents might be coming my way shortly!!!

quote:

Gees, the stock is coming loose! Oh well, stop the work, go get a screw driver, tighten up the stock screws

Loc-Tite is your friend...

I use Dillons. For the rifles I don't normally go into progressive mode, as volume is not an issue, although with most you can. What I like most is that the dies are set up permanently in a tool head, one is not adjusting dies constantly.

A huge weakness I found in the system is priming the big bores. I kept busting the main arm at the bottom from so much pressure priming. Now I size, but prime on a RCBS primer tool. I get better control with the primers this way as well.

When it's time to go progressive, it's easy enough. What I like about the Dillons is the versatility to do everything. But, I am a little lazy about changing some things, so I have 5 Dillons--1 for 45 acp, 1 for 45 Colt, 2 for big bore rifles, and 1 for small primer cartridges. Also just bought a big Redding single stage for special forming projects, and I have a RCBS Partner press that I took the hammer to! HEH.........


CCMDoc

Presents left today and on the way! Funny thing about those birthdays, they come every year at some point!


Yes JWP, I like Loc Tite too--I get confused between blue and red, and right now all I have is red?

Good Evening Gents!

M

quote:

Yes JWP, I like Loc Tite too--I get confused between blue and red, and right now all I have is red?

With the RED you will never have to worry about them coming out. EVER

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
No I don't check the screws on the rifles every time I go to the range!!!!!!!

I probably should however!

Big Bores are different from the small bore shooters! Things really do work loose!

Two weeks ago, doing pressure traces with the 50 B&M. I notice shots going wild, hell I am at 25 yds doing the traces???? What the hell? Then I felt something sorta rattle? Gees, the stock is coming loose! Oh well, stop the work, go get a screw driver, tighten up the stock screws--and guess what, back to 1 hole groups again!

Last week, more pressure traces with the lever guns! Pulling the rifle in tight against my shoulder, I can feel the stock give! It's loose! Finish the traces, bring it in. Start tightening screws, ALL OF THEM are loose! Sides, top, front bottom, stock, damned thing is falling apart on me!

Today, doing more trace work with the 50 B&M Super Short. Notice groups going everywhere, again at 25 yds, god tell me I can shoot better than that? Stock is tight? Hmmmmm. Oh well, must be me! Finish the trace work, pick the rifle up, rattle rattle? Scope is loose? Wait, the levers are tight? The bases had worked loose--Both of them!!!! Yes, I locktite--the red stuff!

Again today, sighting in working with the 500 MDM, doing 50 yd POI tests with different loads getting ready for June and buffalo! At the end, my scope had turned while shooting! Damn crooked ass cross hairs! Yep, I have one of those Wheeler torque screw drivers too! Leupold says 23 inch lbs (or something like that), I go 28 inch lbs! Still turned! Now I have gone to 30 inch lbs--Maybe it will hold!

Big bores shoot'em loose! Just part of the game!

Just rambling!

Michael

Micghael,

Get a good iron sighted double rifle and you won't have any of those problems!

465H&H

465H&H,

I keep telling Michael he needs a double to solve his problems.

Sam

Oh that's just dandy, now 465HH and Sam both on a mission! Gees boys, I have a hard enough time operating a rifle with one barrel--two barrels is one too many! Iron Sights? I can barely see as it is, I am just not happy with my iron sight shooting these days! Anyway, I would probably have to duct tape the barrels together to keep them from falling apart! I have two cases of that fine black duct tape!

HEH HEH..........

JWP, I had the red loc tite on the bases of that super short that came loose yesterday? I filled it full of red and locked them back down, action probably won't work today!

LOL

Michael

Yes indeed Michael,

To solve the problem you need to pick up that 375 double that Sam has for sale

Just imagine the fun you could have with two strain gages and different loads for different barrels. Test solids and "expanding" bullets at the same time and not crack open the action.

drewhenrytnt,

Now you are just turning Michael away from a double. He hates 375 anything!

The way Michael likes to load hot even that Chapuis would be shot loose in no time. He had better stick to 2 bolt guns duct taped together.

Sam

Hello All;

In the on-going saga of the "unmentionable" flat-nosed banded solids:

Like many of you, I sent an E-Mail to Barnes expressing my disappointment about their cancellation of the FNBBS. Last evening I received a reply;

Quote

Hugh
Due to popular demand we will continue to make the flat nose Banded Solid. For this year it will only be available through us, but, we can help you coordinate special order through a dealer in your country.

Thanks,
Ryan Farr / Consumer Services
Barnes Bullets, LLC

End Quote

I suppose only time will tell.

Hugh

quote:

Due to popular demand we will continue to make the flat nose Banded Solid. For this year it will only be available through us, but, we can help you coordinate special order through a dealer in your country.

Sounds like someone up in Remington, the parent company is calling the shots for the moment.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Yes JWP, I like Loc Tite too--I get confused between blue and red, and right now all I have is red?

With the RED you will never have to worry about them coming out. EVER

Exactly:
The breaking force for Loctite 545 Purple after 24-hours cured is 20 inch-lbs (2 ft-lbs)

The breaking force for Loctite 242 Blue after 24-hours cured is 70-150 inch-lbs (12 ft-lbs)

The breaking force for Loctite 271 Red aftyer 24-hours cured is 150-300 inch-lbs (25 ft-lbs)


Then of course are yellow (medium) and green (permanent).

Unlike Michael, I keep only the "Blue" as I'm afraid I will need to take something apart after I fixed it the first time to fix it properly the second.

My orthopedist uses Red, my dentist uses blue, and I use purple as a mixer ...

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
With the RED you will never have to worry about them coming out. EVER

Exactly:
The breaking force for Loctite 545 Purple after 24-hours cured is 20 inch-lbs (2 ft-lbs)

The breaking force for Loctite 242 Blue after 24-hours cured is 70-150 inch-lbs (12 ft-lbs)

The breaking force for Loctite 271 Red aftyer 24-hours cured is 150-300 inch-lbs (25 ft-lbs)


Then of course are yellow (medium) and green (permanent).

Unlike Michael, I keep only the "Blue" as I'm afraid I will need to take something apart after I fixed it the first time to fix it properly the second.[/QUOTE]


Doc, I ran out of blue a very long time ago. All I have is red now? Not sure why. Anyway, on the mounts, always Leupold QRW Bases on the Winchesters, I covered the screws with red, and tighten them. Twice now, both on 50 B&M Super Shorts ????? I have had bases work completely loose! These yesterday, both at the same time??? I covered them up in red and put them back on!

Green--Permanent, hmmmmmm??????

M

Sam wanted me to post this thing! I saw something like this years ago, but never seen it work. Poor guy has to drop it when he works the bolt, suppose it must weigh 20 lbs!

Damned if that ain't some firepower however! Watch that thing sling brass at the end--I like that brass slinging thing, out both sides! Damn!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0s21VAJdCM

Here is your double barrel bolt action.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Green--Permanent, hmmmmmm??????

M

Yeah - needs something like 60lb-ft torque to break free after cure. I think the number is 2701 or something close to that ...

Why don't you guys just use JB weld! I use finger nail polish and it works great. No rung off screws to deal with later.

Great, Sam, just great...

now we're going to see pictures of Michael in his black outfit, mask and nail polish.

This thread is going real bad real fast...

You guys should have seen me last night!!!!!! I like my black lab coat so good, that I wear it in the house sometimes at night--After leaving the lab of course. So last night I am getting ready for bed, butt ass naked, except for my lab coat!!!! Let's see, where are those photos of that?

I have a wig, some hats, borrow the girls nail polish, and the lab coat!




Sam

Nail polish just ain't gonna get it on these rifles, little JB Weld, maybe! I have JB Weld! That is some really good stuff! I am not taking the bases off anyway!

HEH...............

M

Lane

I did a quick little photo both 458 caliber CPS--the one on the left is the 450 North Fork CPS and the one on the right is the 325 North Fork CPS. As you see the 325 has a bit deeper cavity and a little thinner at the top so it will open. The 450 does not open much at 2250 fps or so.

The CEB BBW #13 Solids

Just arrived today!!!!!!!!!

Happy Birthday to Me half a year early

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Happy Birthday to Me half a year early

Hey if you sing that right, it sorta rhymes eh? HEH.....

Hey, I can't get any of the .409s out to you until Friday the earliest! No one is around going to the USPS, and I don't go there myself! There are some places that I don't go!

M

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Happy Birthday to Me half a year early

I swear these are damn good looking bullets!!!!!!! All of them!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Lane

I did a quick little photo both 458 caliber CPS--the one on the left is the 450 North Fork CPS and the one on the right is the 325 North Fork CPS. As you see the 325 has a bit deeper cavity and a little thinner at the top so it will open. The 450 does not open much at 2250 fps or so.

Thank you sir!!!

Michael,

Two questions.

First of all, how big is the hole in the .620 NonCon? Second, have you determined the ideal Meplat and radiused edge for .620 bullets for optimum penetration?

drew

The HP in the .620 measures .355 across the top, as best I can see. Wicked looking!

Ideal meplat per caliber?

No, I don't believe that it works that way. Yes, I can see where you might be leading to, but let me explain my "Theory" on this. A 67% meplat on a .620 is roughly .416 caliber! Holy Cow! A .416 67% meplat is only around .278 or so. Then with .416 caliber meplat then the meplat is TOO LARGE--could get by with less and be stable, right?

Wrong! How can that be wrong? Well, you still have a .620 caliber bullet pushing "BEHIND" that .416 meplat don't you? So for a .620 to be stable during terminals, it still needs a 65% to 70% meplat regardless of caliber.

Slice the bullet up in your mind--slice just the top off, the meplat. It's .416 caliiber. Now slice a part of the caliber off, .620 behind it. You have .620 pushing .416 ahead of it--it still needs to be 67% meplat, regardless of caliber, as you have "caliber pushing meplat".

So in my opinion, no matter how large or how small caliber is, it still needs to be 65%-70% to be terminally stable.

Michael

Michael:

For what it's worth, I sent an e-mail to Barnes about the flat nose solids. Here is the response I got from Ryan Farr:

"Dave

Do to popular demand we will continue to offer the flat nose Banded Solid. They will only be available through us however.

Thanks,

Ryan Farr | Consumer Services
Barnes Bullets, LLC"

I checked at the Barnes store and all the banded solids are still there and in the double rifle calibers like the .470, they have not offered a round nose solid. Who knows, maybe they will be good to their word and keep the flat nose solid going. This is just another reason for you to buy a double.

Doc M,
Why not use JB Weld to completely/full-contact bed and adhere the QRW bases to the M70s?
When done properly, it is invisible.
Regular table vinegar will dissolve it and wipe away any excess squished out after torquing down. Use paper towels and Q-Tips soaked in vinegar to scrub it clean around the edges while it is still soft, before hardening.
Low torch heat will soften it after hardening, same way you remove any of the more permanent LocTites.
Clear or black epoxy, or gray JB Weld. All work the same.
Vinegar or heat.
Take the barreled action out of the stock and drape wet cloths/towels around it exposing only the scope base to torch heat when removing.
Brass bristle brush after heat removal if any residue remains. No mar.
Rough-up the underside of the scope base for better adherence.
Epoxy bedding and gluing the scope base and screw threads is best.
Any poor fit between the base and receiver is eliminated. Prevents any microflex or vibration that could tend to loosen screws.
If I epoxy the bases and 6x48 screws, I don't feel the need to 8x40 the 6x48s.
All this LocTite talk is just goofing off.
Back to the MIB Lab with you.

Did Barnes ever give a reason why they planned to discontinue the flat noses??

Were there complaints about failures to feed? I've never had a problem feeding their solids, but is this common?

Or is there some advantage to the RN's that we don't know about?

Got yelled at by the wife today.

"Tell whoever sent that box to have FedEx leave it by the front door instead of having me sign next time. Nobody will take it with the dogs right there. What's in it that made it so heavy?"

"Bullets."

"Cool dad! I carried that in for you. Can I help load them up after homework?"

10 boxes of .620 and 6 of .585 do add up weight wise though I've not yet opened the package to ogle the beauties.

I'm glad you passed on your love of guns and loading to your kid. Pics of the loaded beauties?

I'm a truly blessed man in so many ways, my children being the most important of them.

This literally happened moments before posting that (wonders of smart phones) so I'll post photos when we've loaded some up, probably the weekend.

Appears there may be some deforestation activity in New Jersey this weekend ...

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Michael:

For what it's worth, I sent an e-mail to Barnes about the flat nose solids. Here is the response I got from Ryan Farr:

"Dave

Do to popular demand we will continue to offer the flat nose Banded Solid. They will only be available through us however.

Thanks,

Ryan Farr | Consumer Services
Barnes Bullets, LLC"

I checked at the Barnes store and all the banded solids are still there and in the double rifle calibers like the .470, they have not offered a round nose solid. Who knows, maybe they will be good to their word and keep the flat nose solid going. This is just another reason for you to buy a double.

Not a chance.

IMO, Barnes is just waiting for the noise to die down. Meanwhile, they'll crank up the marketing push and distribution for the RN variety.

Stick with CEB or NF.

IBT

As for the double, I actually held the bolt action double in Reno a couple of years ago. When I hit the big money, I'm buying one to hang on the wall as a conversation starter.

RIP
Don't put it past me to JB Weld something up! Have done it before!

But to leave a "Torch" in my hands would be very very dangerous to everything around me! Bit of a fire bug you know!


JohnDL

The reason they gave in the beginning to one of my sources was feeding issues. Later from a second source (with an inside source) the story is that they only had 2-3 complaints of feeding that they based the decision on. Not many. They have received far more complaints just from the guys on this thread, much less outside sources. This is one of those corp decisions, above the the guys on the ground. RN advantage? Feeding in cheap ass rifles is about it!



CCMDoc

34 lbs----

HEH.........Oppps, there is another on the way! It's a bit lighter however!

quote:

I'm a truly blessed man in so many ways, my children being the most important of them.

I can send you a few of my kids as well if you like? Especially my 17 yr old! Well, you can have the 21 yr old too! HEH HEH...



Dave and IBT

I think IBT is right, just biding time until the noise dies down it seems to me. If not, they would stop production of the RN and re-instate the FN as King of the line! Time will tell I suppose.


That bolt double thing is wild. Like I said, I kinda like that spitting out empty cases on both sides thing! Wild!



Well I have had no time for terminals this week at all. I was hoping to get to some of the North Forks, but just have not been able to do so. Seems I am getting backed up on the test work a bit. Still doing some pressure traces on the 50 B&M AK, speaking of which one of the screws come loose that holds the loading gate together, it's now just flopping around inside the action. I have not taken the time to monkey with it, as having wires and gages hooked to this one I do not wish to disturb the connection. Almost finished with those, but still........

Also finishing up the PTs on the 50 Super Short--have those wonderful North Fork 375 CPS and FPS over the 2200 fps mark and safe--not bad for a little gun. I knew those North Forks were going to do very well in the 50 SS.

The other day I was getting a shipment of powder--noticed that Winchester Mag Rifle primers were available. Well, I reckon I have never in my life used a Win Mag Rifle primer---always always a Fed 215, never veering off course! Something compelled me to get 2000 of these, I suppose my curious nature. I am running a test comparing the two primers soon in several of the B&Ms just to see. Since I have strain gages hooked up to several of them now, the PT will tell a lot, very sensitive. Chrono is good, but this PT is incredible for showing little things a chrono never shows! Just curious is all.

Another major test coming on barrel strain in the next couple of weeks--top priority test on that.

At the same time trying to get two rifles RTG for June shooting.

Have VIP visitors coming in a few weeks as well!

Just lot's going on, and somewhere in between I have to do real work to keep the cash flow going!

Whew, makes me tired!

Michael

Michael

Sounds like you are up to your ears. Keep us imformed about the primer thing if you would. I was looking for federal 215,s yesterday and had a time finding them. Finially found some at Grafs but 5 other places were out.so an alternate would be nice. heheh I dont load near as much as you do but am tempted to get 5000 just so i dont have to worry about them for a long while. On the same theme how long does a lb of 2520 last with the 70-75 gr loads? seem an 8 lb would last me forever but might be the way to go.

SSR

CrossL

MidSouth! I was on MidSouth this week, needed some H-4198, they had plenty of Fed 215s and 210s. I got 10000 of them just in case I ran out, I was down to about 10000, getting a little concerned! HEH..........

I get 5-8 lb kegs only. Less of a foot print on my shelves, which space is short! 8 lbs is about 750 rounds--about 3 weeks worth around here! LOL.........

M