With the TRex at 2,400 you should be just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Up the velocity to 2,250 and I think it's possible.
Who is going to shoot an elephant in the ass?
Post mortem obviously

I Will use my 577 trex when going in 2014. Will try the 750 grs BBW 13's at 2600 fps. Sure they will get the job done - but how far Will they penetrate...?

Hmm.

750 grains at 2600 fps will wake up a shooter. I've never tried that. I've never even considered that.

The big test is when you can calmly take that load and shoot an impala at 250 yards. Then you control the rifle and use it as a surgeon's tool. A rifle as a steady tool is the opposite of the infamous video of about twenty guys trying to shoot the TRex and hold on to the rifle.

To the above Tanzans quote

Hmm.

750 grains at 2600 fps will wake up a shooter.

The big test is when you can calmly take that load and shoot an impala at 250 yards. Then you control the rifle and use it as a surgeon's tool. A rifle as a steady tool is the opposite of the infamous video of about twenty guys trying to shoot the TRex and hold on to the rifle.[/QUOTE]

Tanzan

If you take a close look at the infamous video, none of those 20 blokes even knew how to hold a hard recoiling rifle.

However there was one bloke who did and he managed to fire the Trex without any harm whatsoever.

Pyzda

yep - no problem what so ever, though you feel it, but no scope - only open sights.. You dont need a "surgeons tool" to shoot an elephant at 20 meters... For impalas I have better suited rifles... .. With the 577 and open sights I limit myself to max 100 m. And preferably under 50 which is the most fun anyway. And on ellies - max is 25m I think... 50 would be faaaar for an elephant... I think....

Buffalo

for 20-25m you just may as well use a sharp spear. LOL

Pyzda

Might be exciting...

It is my understanding that there is peak recoil and rate of acceleration. The rate of acceleration seems to be more important than the peak in many cases. The WBY 378 has a rate of accereration that is nasty but no more peak that several other calabers that are not considered nasty. Be interesting to know those figures for the calibers under discussion. It would also be interesting to know the factors that determine the acceleration: rate of burning -i.e fast powder?

The common recoil numbers are
Free recoil velocity
plus
Free recoil energy
both of which depend on both the load fired and the weight of the rifle.

Less commonly used:
Impulse: Like the impulse thrusters of the Star Ship Enterprise when not in warp drive.


The recoil of the 378 Wby is not unusual.
Just has a high recoil velocity when fired in a Weatherby Mark V rifle with a No.3 sporter barrel contour, a standard factory format.
Too light a rifle for the nonexpert.
Hence the vicious reputation.

A simultaneous double discharge of a double rifle delivers twice the impulse of a single discharge.
That double impulse acting on the mass of the double rifle gives it twice the recoil velocity, and hence quadruples the recoil energy:
KE = 1/2(MV*2)
Ouch.
Like Tony Makris' double on "Under Wild Skies."
Might have knocked him down and bloodied his nose, but all considered, well done!
The 200 ft-lbs of 600 NE recoil energy becomes 800 ft-lbs, when the double rifle doubles.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The common recoil numbers are
Free recoil velocity
plus
Free recoil energy
both of which depend on both the load fired and the weight of the rifle.

Less commonly used:
Impulse: Like the impulse thrusters of the Star Ship Enterprise when not in warp drive.


The recoil of the 378 Wby is not unusual.
Just has a high recoil velocity when fired in a Weatherby Mark V rifle with a No.3 sporter barrel contour, a standard factory format.
Too light a rifle for the nonexpert.
Hence the vicious reputation.

A simultaneous double discharge of a double rifle delivers twice the impulse of a single discharge.
That double impulse acting on the mass of the double rifle gives it twice the recoil velocity, and hence quadruples the recoil energy:
KE = 1/2(MV*2)
Ouch.
Like Tony Makris' double on "Under Wild Skies."
Might have knocked him down and bloodied his nose, but all considered, well done!
The 200 ft-lbs of 600 NE recoil energy becomes 800 ft-lbs, when the double rifle doubles.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
A few Ultra Bore bullets---and the reason now the Ultra Bores deserve a reputation.

Michael

Everytime I see pictures like these I want a bigger gun.

Pyzda

Everytime I see these pics, I try to imagine how many sus scrofa I can get to line-up in row with a 4ft or thicker oak tree behind them to stop the bullet. My Overkill has been gathering dust in the safe as I have been doing lots of bird hunting.

Are those cute little pointy black tips available for an 825gr Non-Con?

Andy

Do take note that the .585 #13 Solid in the photo above was one of several generations before the approved 67% meplat #13 4 band solid we know today. The one Todd used to drive 8-10 feet through an elephant, twice! The one in the photo has a 70% meplat, which would reduce the amount of penetration somewhat.

Drew, as far as pointy things on the 825 #13 NonCon in the 600 OK, Do you really think you need a point on one of those? I am not so sure I see that as being a 300 yard bullet?

LOL..................

M

why not put a tip on a .620" bullet?

I guess I've been a one-gun-in-the-forest hunter too long and want my rifles to be "oribi-capable", capable of taking small antelope at 200-300 yards out across an mbuga (wide opening across an African forest).

I believe the rational for using a Talon Tip with the Jumbo caliber NonCons is the same for the .500's and .510's - that being enhanced terminal performance via greater velocity retention and improved petal shear... Hum, I believe that's the rational for using Talon Tips in all other calibers...

Some may want to use their "Overkill" on plains game !
Maybe a 600 grain .620" tipped non con or Raptor at 3k FPS for 300 yard shots on Dik Dik?
Bring two 600 OK's one 12 lbs one 9 lbs
600 club safari!

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
I believe the rational for using a Talon Tip with the Jumbo caliber NonCons is the same for the .500's and .510's - that being enhanced terminal performance via greater velocity retention and improved petal shear... Hum, I believe that's the rational for using Talon Tips in all other calibers...

Jim

100% spot on correct!

Ya see boys, problem is this, since I don't have a 585 B&M or 600 B&M, and don't shoot those calibers, and since I personally am not pushing the issue, and not in the bullet business, then the simple fact is that no one is requesting it. All someone really has to do is call Dan up, tell him you want tips for these Ultra Bores, and most important of course, PAY FOR THEM, then tips can be had. Easy as that. Tips are not cheap by the way. And I am sure big Ultra bore tips are expensive, probably more expensive than cheap bullets! Worth it? Damn sure is, especially with Terminals and retained velocity at 50 yds. I have said this, we have all said this, we have all heard this statement "Animal won't know the difference in 100 fps!" With standard conventional bullets, this is absolutely true. With a NonConventional, it is very much NOT TRUE. 100-150 fps with a NoNCon makes a big difference, one that you can see, one that you can track when doing terminals as well.

I don't mean to be a smart ass about tips for Ultra Bores, if I was shooting Ultra Bores, probably we would have tips. So someone that has a vested interest in increased terminals needs to get with the program.

Michael

Michael you're absolutely correct. Dan is like the 'candy man' of bullet stuff...only limited by how wide someone is willing to open their personal pocket book!

You've bit the 'money bullet' for us with many of the BB BBW#13 bullets that CEB offers and we most definitely appreciate this. Ron and Max did a run of .395 caliber CEB FBH bullets. You participated with Ron and I did a 4-bullet run of the .423 caliber BBW#13 bullets even though you don't own anything in that caliber. Ron and I did a run of the .500 caliber 430gr MTH bullets and I simultaneously did a run of .423 caliber 320gr MTH bullets. And I'm sure there have been many other 'non-standard' buys that I'm not aware of...

So as you suggest, perhaps it's time for the .585 and .620 caliber guys to get together, decide on what Talon Tip design you want (Ogive, RN, or something in between), pool your money and make a full run buy. Maybe work everything out amongst yourselfs between now and the DSC show and give Dan your order at the show...

Golly gee look what I started.

All those in favor of tipped Raptors in for their 600s please PM me so we can get something rolling. I cannot think of a better way to spend my bonus this year than on bullets.

Especially since my duck hunting friend from San Antonio has cancelled on me for some stupid deer hunt in mexico.

quote:

Golly gee look what I started.

Trouble Maker!

quote:

Especially since my duck hunting friend from San Antonio has cancelled on me for some stupid deer hunt in mexico

Duck Hunting or Mexican Deer????? Or did you say Beer?



Hmmmmm, nope, think I will stay at home and drink Apple Pie! Or, maybe some of my NEW BlueBerry Pie!

What blueberry, a new one to try. More stuff on order for you, after deer season.
Heading out to alberta tomm for mulie, have 145 gr raptors moving around 3300 fps, looking forward to sending some pics in.

Brent

Yes, Blueberry! My Man here is able to make "BlueBerry" with some straight White. It is at least equal to the Apple! Now, Sam has a BIG ORDER for several 1000 lbs of Blueberries this coming season! HEH HEH...................

One has to go all the way to Alberta to shoot a mule? Never shot a mule, but did plow and log with one when I was a kid! I am very sure a .308 145 Raptor can kill a mule however.

Is there a new .308 Raptor or did one of the weights(100 & 130)go the wayside?

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Is there a new .308 Raptor or did one of the weights(100 & 130)go the wayside?

The 145gr Raptor is an additional bullet weight.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Is there a new .308 Raptor or did one of the weights(100 & 130)go the wayside?

The 145gr Raptor is an additional bullet weight.

Correct, the 145 is a bullet Dan was playing with in some of the faster twist 30s, and larger capacity 30s. I don't have any, don't need a 30 for anything.

I personally like the 100 gr myself. Perfect 30/30, and does as much as I would ever do with a 30, which I can't think of anything I would do with a 30, but have them just in case.

We may get some reports on this little 100 gr pill, as that is what I loaded for my idiot buddy Lou in his 30/06. Currently he is still in Zimbabwe with it, his 50 B&M, and the other guy with the Marlin 45/70. Should be back at some point soon I think.

Michael

I am using the 145 raptors in my 300 win mag on alberta mule deer this coming week. Will report next week.they are moving at 3373 fps

quote:

Originally posted by brent ebeling:
I am using the 145 raptors in my 300 win mag on alberta mule deer this coming week. Will report next week.they are moving at 3373 fps

I thought you had already left????

That is smoking I think! Sounds like in a short time we are going to hear about several 30 cal reports.

I have been playing 45 acp for the last week or two, even terminals. Zombie stuff!

Damned Photobucket, can't get it to work, or even get access to it???? Have sent bitching email, have not heard anything back???? Can't post any photos right now of anything?

Loading more zombie ammo today too.

I hear that there are lot's of zombies out there!

Michael

In banff right now taking Paul up to Jasper today on a small tour, go to camp sunday. Sure is beautiful here. Paul's first hunting trip, you should see his duffel bag.

Send regards to Paul for me. Over packed eh! HEH HEh............

M

Just a test--nothing new here.
Having serious issues with my photobucket, and NO ONE will get back to me about it, not in 4 days so far anyway. So I am looking at other options, and testing things.
Michael

Michael,

It could be the new format photobucket is using. I absolutely HATE it. I wish they would go back to the previous design. This new one is not very user friendly. If you find a new option, please advise.

Todd

I have not even been able to bring my page up! New format loads up, then the page goes completely blank, white, nothing. Regardless of what I do. I sent email to them 4 days ago- Nothing? I added to that yesterday--Nothing?

This morning I looked at several different things, and what I have posted on this morning is a little
site called postimage. Free, which leads me to concerns. I had nearly 4000 photos on photobucket.
So, sent them an email about the content of my photos, and if they had a problem with that. Next need to find out what limits? So don't know just yet. Easy to use, not much to it. So we will see??????

Will be investigating.

But I can't even get my photos on photobucket or get on the site at all?????

Michael

Michae, et al...

Since you own www.B-mriflesandcartridges.com, you should have ample extra space to host your own photos. It's just a matter of setting up an FTP file transfer and that's about it.

I use FireFTP, which is an add-on for the Firefox browser but if you use a WIndows machine I think Explorer has an FTP client as well.

Once you set it up, you can make a directory on your website called pics and then just drag files into the folder as you would on your own desktop. That way, all of your pictures will have an easy URL such as www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/pics/xxxx.jpg instead of a long photobucket one. Whoever does your website should have the login and password information for you to do this. In point of fact, it's the same process most people use to upload the actual website to the hosting company (Godaddy etc..)

In this day and age of cheap online space it really is easier to but your own domain and do all the hosting yourself than futz around with the processes of anything else.


_baxter

Baxter

I run apple, and FireFox has given me very serious issues, in fact I had to remove firefox altogether from the system. Running OSX.6.8. Currently Safari.

I do the B&M website myself. I will see if I can figure that out--that would be GREAT if I could do that somehow??? Not sure, that might be a bit above my pay grade however???

Thanks for the tip, and I will check that out.

M

Good Afternoon "Bullet People!"

Been a little slow here the last couple of weeks, and I really have not been doing any
serious big bore rifle testing, at least not what we normally do anyway.

However, that does not mean we have been sitting on our ass, doing nothing! We have been loading, shooting, and doing some test work as well. Its that time again, time that I get busy and load some small bore put away ammo, and some always needed 45 acp. This is what I have been busy with of late. You see, every few years I run out of this stock, and have to restock, or reload as it may be. Along the way, I am always picking up a few hundred of this, few hundred of that in 45 acp, when it comes time to load, its sitting there ready. But as time goes by, if it is not marked or known, I forget what bullets are what, especially some things bought in lots of 500 or 1000, deals from Midway, and what have you. And, I also forget what sort of terminals are expected in handgun, or rifle, so I have to do some quick work there as well.

Below you will see a few things I have been working on in 45 acp, it is still big bore, and I am testing in rifle as well, combo handgun/rifle ammo. You won't see as detailed info that I do for the big bore rifle bullets, these are quick and dirty little tests that just shows me what is going on.

As for penetration in 45 acp--all expanding bullets go from 6-8 inches, if they don't expand proper, 10-11 inches. That is about it, and all do the same. I will be testing some more FMJ of different types, but not this week.

I purchased quite a bit of Golden Saber in lots of 500 over the last bit of time, and the 185 version is a favorite in my smaller Kimber Ultras that I carry. Most of the time it does rather well.



However the little extra velocity it gets in the rifle is a bit much for the bullet.




I love Gold Dots in 45 Colt, and found a few 200 gr Gold Dots for 45 acp. I was very pleased with the little rifle, but the Ultras could not get enough velocity to make them work as well as I wanted.






I had 500 from a recent purchase from Midway, 200 gr JHPs. In looking at them, I believe they were some of the Hornady Blemished bullets they had on sale recently. I was very very pleased with these both in the Ultras and the little rifle.





I found a box of 20 Barnes X 185s, I boosted the velocity a bit for the rifle, and was extremely pleased with the outcome of these.



None of this is hunting stuff, for the most part, but just good stuff to have on hand. Target shooting and such...................

Michael

I see a defensive hunting non con pistol round made of pewter 85% Tin and the rest copper, antimony and lead to have velocities of 1,500 to 2,000 FPS having similar non con performance of the radiating petals. Maybe a round nose tip insert. An 85 grain 45 ACP and 45 grain 9mm should do the trick. The shock and temporary wound cavity would be devastating.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I see a defensive hunting non con pistol round made of pewter 85% Tin and the rest copper, antimony and lead to have velocities of 1,500 to 2,000 FPS having similar non con performance of the radiating petals. Maybe a round nose tip insert. An 85 grain 45 ACP and 45 grain 9mm should do the trick. The shock and temporary wound cavity would be devastating.

Not to get off subject boomboom, but if you want an 85gr 45ACP going 2300fps, try RBCD. They do not over penetrate and make a hole the size of a basketball.

Yes, boomy needs a 45 acp running about 3000 fps!



OK, just got off the phone with my buddy on his way back from Zimbabwe. BULLET REPORT........

First get one thing out of the way and that was the Marlin Guide Gun 45/70, loaded with 400 BBW#13 Solids. This was for the guy that was on this same trip with my buddy Lou. I had these running at 1875 fps or so in my gun, safe and sound. He hit the buffalo, yardage?, shoulders, bullet passed through, evidently doing some damage, and inflicted trauma. Buffalo did not go 10 FEET, hit him again, down, end of story. So the 400 Solids did a very good job on buffalo, with a Marlin Guide Gun--45/70.

Lou shot two buffalo, croc, hippo, hyena with his 50 B&M. All with 450 BBW#13 NonCons, .500 caliber, tad bit over 2200 fps, his barrel is only 17 inches. Bull buffalo went no more than 10 yds as I understand it, very sick, hit him again, down, end of that. Other buffalo had been in a snare, something like that, bad shape, and not sure of the shot or how far it went, but dead none the less. Hippo was in the water, dead on the spot. Croc, broke spine, dead right there. I think he recovered a couple of the NonCons, picture perfect from what I hear. He talked about massive trauma being inflicted, and lots and lots of damage to internals on everything.

Now, remember I told you I loaded him some 100 gr ESP Raptors for his 30/06? He used that on impala and baboons. 1 Impala 200 yards, never moved, dead on the spot. 6 baboons as I hear it, and all DRT. Talked about extreme damage and massive trauma from the little bullet. Which is what I expected.

Yes, I know it's not a detail, but these are not diggers, so best I get is animal reactions, how far they go, and if they happen to be at the skinning shed I hear about the massive trauma. So you get, what I get.

All in all, very successful. They were hunting with Andrew and Corris in Gache Gache. Same place I hunted last year.

I will most likely be out of touch for a few days over Thanksgiving--So I wish all of you Happy Thanksgiving to you and Yours.

Enjoy

Michael

Happy Thanksgiving to all as well...

I am thankful for all here. Wishing you all a moist delicious turkey and all the fixings with loved ones to share it with.

Maybe a light pewter non con pistol bullet will make DRT's like those baboons