Michael:

Thank you so much for testing the punch bullets for me. While they didn't perform as well as the BBW#13, they did quite well. Dang your media is tough! They do have one advantage in the 45-70/450 Marlin in that they are shorter than their homogenous counterpart of the same weight. That's important in the 45-70/450 Marlin because of the limited case capacity I think. I've had not trouble seating them and have gotten good velocity and consistency with Accurate 2230.

I wanted to try the 350 grain North Fork bullets, especially the cup point solids, but I prefer the 400 grainers and I don't think I can get the 350 North Forks to shoot to the same POI as the 400 grain bullets.

Dave, I'm beginning to believe you must be Elmer Keith resurrected!

Dave

No man, you are welcome, no thanks needed, adds to our base of knowledge, so good for everyone, including me! Thanks for sending them! I am not finished yet, since you sent enough for me to give a go in one of my Marlins in 45/70 as well--we will test them there too and see what they do with the slower twist rate.

Yes, it's a tough medium on bullets for several things, one is stability. Those magazines that I insert every six inches or so of news print really does throw bullets a curve, no doubt and pun intended. HEH...

Well, I think maybe you will get a chance to try a few things out soon. Possible that the 350 CPS North Forks might hit POI close to the 400s you want to use.

As for powder I have always liked RL 7 in 45/70 and have used it for years and still do when I need to test something in 45/70. But like I said, I have used it for years, and have not investigated new powders for 45/70 so I might be dated?

I can tell you this, I am liking my little 458 B&M Super Short over the 45/70 these days, in fact, I have laid all my 45/70 guide guns over in the "To Build" pile for folks who might want to build a 50 B&M AK on a marlin. The 458 Super Short is hammering the 45/70 by 150 fps or so across the board, with it's 16 inch barrel compared to the 45/70 18 inch barrel. Being in a little Win Bolt gun it can handle 65000 PSI as well, so that puts it ahead in that area. And best of all--it's exactly the same length as a guide gun at 18 inches and comes in at 6.25 lbs. My 45/70s are history.

This is the 400 BBW#13 I tested in the Marlins when they come in.





Beibs, Dave has come a LONG WAY in a short time! He is on the "Road To Discovery"! LOL

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:

Dennis

Well it's damned good to have you back boy! Where you Been!!!!!!!

Got rid of the home computer. Can only see if you boy's been stayin' in line from the gun shop. Gettin' a lot more done now in the field.

Cheers Michael, Jim, and others.

Hey Dennis... Good to hear from you. We'll be up in Oregon later this month; I'll stop by the shop.

Maybe we can show Punch bullets the results and he can add a radius for feeding and penetration improvement.
Michael. Glad you love the Super Short as much as I do so you are getting 450 marlin performance aye. What do you think of running the 458 super short reamer in a 450 marlin and loading out normal 458 rifle bullets to 2.5" OAL. If you did not like it you could rebarrel to 50 B&M 2.1" using rum brass.

Boomy

Maybe the Punch guys are watching. Radius that sharp edge off boys, improve your game! Boomy says so! And by the way, he is correct!

quote:

What do you think of running the 458 super short reamer in a 450 marlin and loading out normal 458 rifle bullets to 2.5" OAL. If you did not like it you could rebarrel to 50 B&M 2.1" using rum brass.

Boomy, I am thinking about what I told you a few posts ago! You are thinking TOO MUCH again! That's what I think!

Yes I think too much.
There is a rare occasion when it pays off.
Yes pretty rare

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Yes I think too much.
There is a rare occasion when it pays off.
Yes pretty rare

Don't worry, I remember every single time you thought too much and it paid off!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Yes I think too much.
There is a rare occasion when it pays off.
Yes pretty rare

Boomy,
You're the guy of whom we will all say:
"I knew him when ..."

and

"Damn it!!! I should have gotten in on that when he first offered ..."

Thanks
If I had lots of money I'd be dangerous lol.

Boomy

I know something else you are correct about, and I know you come by it independently, but I am not going to say right now! After all, I have to keep your attention for a day or so, or you and the guys will get bored and probably go off to another forum or something, or even another thread! HEH... So I have to keep you guessing for a day or so anyway!

Oh well, lets see, I think I have something else to entertain you with anyway, at least for this evening.

Did I show this?



OK next post is some low velocity work with the new 450 .500 caliber North Fork!

M

In this photo below it is easy to see how each step up in velocity is starting to effect the meplat, rather interesting I think.




I think another step in this process is to make one of these in a 400 gr weight where we can run velocity up in the 50 Super Short, and the 50 B&M Alaskan as well. Currently the 450 can be run to 1850 in the Super Short and 1885 in the Marlin 50 B&M AK. I intend to run it up to at least 1950 fps in the M71s. Of course the 50B&M can hammer them out at nearly 2300 fps, and lord knows what the 500 MDM can run them at, most likely 2700 or better. Yes, at some point I promise to try them at 2600-2700 fps and see what happens! Maybe next week unless I forget!

I think a 400 gr one of these would be pretty spiffy as well.

Thank You North Fork! Excellent job.

Michael

quote:

I know something else you are correct about, and I know you come by it independently, but I am not going to say right now! After all, I have to keep your attention for a day or so, or you and the guys will get bored and probably go off to another forum or something, or even another thread! HEH... So I have to keep you guessing for a day or so anyway!

North fork does make some damn great bullets.
Those 450s should be a good hammer in the MDM and 50 B&M.

Michael:

I just got off the phone with Kelye Schlepp of Belt Mountain. I told him about your suggestions and while I had him on the phone I directed him to this thread as well as the 45-70/450 Marlin in Africa thread so he can see the results as well as the nose profile on your bullets.

I talked to a friend today about buying a Texas longhorn steer to do some bullet testing on. Will probably give the meat to the Salvation Army. This is the only way we Nebraskans can get revenge on those darn Texans since they beat us in football eight of the last nine years!

No penetration measure on the faster two bullets?
Next to last one expanded about the same as the last stated one that had penetration of only 16" at 1697 fps impact.
Decreasing penetration as velocity went up and nose got bigger.

The last one, however at over 2200 fps impact velocity, folded the nose back to maybe barely smaller cross sectional area?
... Nah, not a significant diference yet ...
How did it penetrate?

Really haven't gotten fast enough here to see what Mike Brady stated once upon a time.
He is Yoda of North fork, designed the original SP.

Make Brady said this would happen at higher velocity: Smaller XSA, by folding the mushroom back to a smaller presentation,
of "wetted surface" as ol' Alf would say, and maybe better penetration.
Depending on the medium, after initial fall-off, penetration could pick back up at higher velocity.

Complex. Depends on impact medium factors of resistance with velocity.
Mike Brady may have seen it in blocks of book binders glue, or somesuch proteinaceous gelatin in his original testing setup.

Like the Corbin "SIM-TEST," a gelatin solid at room temperature, meltable, mold in baking pan, and reusable?



Mike Brady's bullet trap:

Wouldn't the cup point solid do a better job at most any velocity? I kinda thinkin that when North Fork invented the cup point solid they made their soft point obsolete. Better penetration and controlled expansion.

RIP

quote:

No penetration measure on the faster two bullets?

Those last two I shot before I left back the end of May I think.

quote:

Decreasing penetration as velocity went up and nose got bigger. Depending on the medium, after initial fall-off, penetration could pick back up at higher velocity.

As we both know, the answer is above. As we moved to a point, which was around 1697 impact, once we went above that we started getting more penetration, and then up to the 2200 fps even more, and I suspect in the 500 MDM that penetration will increase with that added velocity as well.

North Fork Premium Bonded is the only "Conventional" Premium or otherwise, that I know of that this phenomena occurs. It does not occur with any other conventionals I have tested, and in fact, just the opposite. I would have to say that the North Fork Premium is working towards near NonCon status because of that one fact alone. HEH HEH......

Hey that self contained Tank that Mike Brady used, or still uses, or maybe North Fork has now, damned smart idea, he must have started out testing a lot of "ROUND NOSE SOLIDS", therefore needing something to contain them when they go astray, which is 100% of the time in test medium, this way no damage to other areas within the test facility! Of course, I had to stop testing RN solids, just too much damage to my range!



Dave

quote:

Wouldn't the cup point solid do a better job at most any velocity? I kinda thinkin that when North Fork invented the cup point solid they made their soft point obsolete. Better penetration and controlled expansion.

Well, Yes, and No, in my opinion. There are so many factors to take into account, that really one cannot possibly choose only one bullet to be the absolute best and all things considered. Not possible, what will work in one scenario, with one cartridge, rifle, animal, will not always be the very best one can choose in another given scenario. Too many variables to take into account.

This is a favorite subject of mine and makes for great discussion and thought process. Let's take your very own, current discovery of the Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70. At best, it's a rather weak big bore cartridge, when compared to other far more capable cartridges, we all agree there. Nothing wrong with 45/70, but it's not the "Do All Cartridge" that some would claim. But, we love the way the "Platform" handles and carries all day don't we? Of course, we all do, myself included, been there done it, about 10 yrs ago. Only problem back 10 yrs ago, there was no way to enhance the 45/70 beyond what it has been for years, lacking. How can we enhance a cartridge, not to the point of probably making it superior to other already more capable cartridges, but to the point that it is either adequate for the task we want to undertake, or some better than adequate? What does all the work when we go to the field on a hunting excursion? THE BULLET! So we can enhance a cartridge, beyond it's former self, by bullet design alone!

Now, what mission shall we undertake with our Guide Gun in 45/70, let's say--- Cape Buffalo! Yep, about as big a mission as I care to undertake with a 45/70, and it's a damned tough one at that. The very measure of tough and mean for everything! My favorite thing shooting buffalo! God help me, I love to put bullet to buffalo!

Today I think a 45/70 guide gun is adequate for that mission. No, not the best, and not what I will even mess with these days, graduated far beyond that, with similar platforms. But today, I think we have some good choices of Super Bullets to do this mission with. I think today I would look at a couple of different bullets for that job.

OK, we always like to inflict the most trauma possible on that first shot, but can never sacrifice penetration, have to get there first. The North Fork CPS--These are expanding Cup Points, 325 and 350 gr bullets have the penetration needed to get to the vitals of buffalo.





As you see, 22-24 inches of penetration in our test medium here. Now keep in mind, Tried and True .458 caliber Buffalo Bullets, 500 gr Noslers, Swifts, Woodleighs, you name it in conventionals, penetration between 19 inches and 24 inches in this test medium for direct comparisons. These two tiny little North Fork Expanding CPS are well within that range. Little more velocity than standard and these will penetrate and inflict some trauma to target as well. I doubt it's going to knock them to the dirt on the spot, but you can get to where you need to be with these.

Another bullet I would trust in this situation is the new 370 BBW#13 NonCon. While penetration is somewhat less than the NF CPS, it's still more than enough to do the job, I have seen that remaining slug penetrate double depth of what it does in this test medium, so I have no issues with this being a first shot either.



So there is two good choices for first shots on buffalo, at reasonable ranges, less than 50 yds. Both will inflict some trauma, both would do better at higher velocities, but we don't have that luxury with our 45/70 cartridge. Penetration is more than adequate in both cases.

BUT--BIG BUT--Never trust anything with buffalo! Anything can happen in the field! So what do we use for INSURANCE? Here is our insurance policy, or mine anyway;





I love a lever gun--It's Fast--VERY FAST! Chances are if I am close enough--25 yds or so, I am going to be able to pump ole buff full of these BBW#13s. The only question of which one used is what hits at the same POI as my first shot with the NonCons! The rest is history.

Now this is just my choice in this scenario, does not mean that there are not more choices, I just happen to believe these are the best choices. In another scenario I might choose to bypass the NonCon and CPS and move straight to the solid? Field conditions vary. But all of these will do what needs to be done. Not the best there is for buffalo, but for sure adequate.


But, lets say our scenario is NOT BUFFALO, how about a big damned bear? Not something we have to have really heavy penetration for, but still nothing we want to trifle with either! Have to have penetration of course, but now we want penetration, and to be able to inflict as much immediate trauma as possible. So we choose a good bullet that will inflict trauma, at the highest velocity we can run it to, and yet penetrate beyond vitals and even crunch some bear bone if needed. Remember our limitations, 45/70.

We open ourselves up somewhat in this scenario to some other options on bullets, even a good premium soft might just be the ticket, some of these I think would do just dandy in 45/70 for this mission;

This 405 Woodleigh is a very good 45/70 bullet. And a good choice. Today I think I would choose something a little lighter to where I could get velocity up some to inflict more trauma.



For a Premium Soft I think I would choose this North Fork that I just tested in the 458 Super Short.



Now of course our Expanding CPS and our CEB BBW#13 NonCons above will for sure do the job too. But we have opened up our choices some with some of the premium softs, that will inflict trauma and penetrate more than enough. A lighter choice with a NonCon could also be the 295 BBW#13 NonCon



And I am sure there are some other choices as well, but I would use a premium bullet for this mission and not resort to a $0.25 bullet! Sorry, just the way I am.

Now, a lot of folks think I am nuts, and that is fine, all those that do, you might be right, but you can kiss my, anyway, I don't really care what some might think to be quite honest, either go with or go without, your problem not mine. But I have done this on bear not so long ago. Point being, I would use one of the BBW#13 Solids to back up my first shot on bear, and double up especially with a 45/70 scenario! WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD A NUMB NUTS USE A SOLID ON BEAR?????

OK, think about it! You are already not using the "Hammer Of Thor" cartridge. You have limitations! What if you shot is slightly off, what if that big bear is headed for the thick stuff and you only have a couple of seconds left to do something, what if things are normal, but he just don't drop at the shot and he is running full tilt away from you, what if, what if and some more what if? What do you have that can get from the south end of a north bound bear and save the day? What can you count on to do that job for you? What can you count on to stop that bear from getting into the thick stuff? What can crunch bone, and keep on digging through flesh, vitals and whatever else? A BBW#13 Solid, either the 325 or the 400 gr will do! You can get a bullet into the vitals from any angle, and crunch bone, and just maybe SAVE THE DAY, and a long ugly follow up if things go wrong. At the very worst, you get another couple of bullets into him to help him go to the happy hunting grounds quicker! Yes, you got it, in this scenario Michael will have his soft, or noncon up front to inflict the most trauma, and be chunking those solids as fast as I can afterwards! You can do what you want, that's what I am doing!

Man this has been fun and I love these sort of subjects but I have to go get some work done now!

Michael

LOL! That's what I like about Michael!

Say's what he means, and means what he say's.

And. . . . he's usually right!

Doc M,
I do not recall whether solid/FMJ bullets are legal for bear hunting in Alaska.
Trust but verify?

Thanks for saving me from having to look up those May results.
Your tests seem to agree with what Yoda said, regarding field experience and his test medium.
May The Force be with you!

Speaking of forces and fields:

Did you notice the force field generator Mike Brady used to back up his trap when testing round nose solids?
It bends space-time when actuated and contains the round noses in a cone shaped field with the apex at the back of the bullet trap.

Here is the setup for testing RN solids, hatches battened and force field on:



And of course the other setup was for North Fork bullet testing, hatches open and force field off:

RIP

quote:

Doc M,
I do not recall whether solid/FMJ bullets are legal for bear hunting in Alaska.

Eh? Hmmmm? Well I don't know either, but a couple of years ago I hammered a little bear with a One-Two Punch with the second being a solid.

It's raining on me, for a few days, it's cold, I hate/Love Alaska, I am sick of it and ready to go home. Here comes a bear, about 50-60 yds out. 50 B&M loaded with the copper 470 HP at 2200 fps, backed with a 485 Lehigh Solid at 2175 fps. All bears look big to me. I am on it, following, waiting on my guy to say shoot or not shoot, he is hesitant, I am ready to go home, I am wet, cold and miserable, so I help him make the decision, BOOM, bear trying to make it's way to the bush, Boom, slam the solid through, bear is down in less than 10 yds. No, this time I did not need the solid, but I don't know that at the time. Insurance, always pay the insurance! Legal or not, hell don't know, but I damn sure know what works and don't work!

So that's how it's done, bend to space time continueum until you can get a RN to drive straight, or at least keep it contained to a particular area anyway! That Mike Brady is a sharp fellow sometimes eh? Yep, don't need to bend space and time for the North Forks or BBW#13s, so all is safe with open hatches! HEH HEH.........

One never knows what one might learn right here on TBP! It's a new day!

Michael

Guys I am going to be out of touch a few days I suppose, might show up with my laptop from time to time, but have to actually go out and "WORK" a few days, have some meetings to attend. Yeah, it's ugly and I don't like it, but it pays for the bullets I shoot, so ya gotta do what ya gotta do to keep burning powder! So.................... Anyway!

But, before I depart this afternoon, I want to show you something. As you know we had a little issue with the BBW#13 NonCons and the Pointy Hi BC tips and terminals! Notice I said "HAD A ISSUE". Correct, there seems no longer to be an issue! Easy fix.

But just to review a bit so's you don't forget;



As you see, one did not shear, above, and the one that did penetration was a bit short of normal, which I attributed to the lower velocity, trying to simulate a 300 yd impact. Now even the ones we tested at high velocity just did not seem stable either, which was bugging me a bit too?



OK, well we have introduced a "foreign matter" into the equation, so yes it's going to change things somewhat. This always happens with bullets, change one tiny little thing, and it can disrupt the system. While not totally disrupted to the point of total failure, still not quite right!

Credit to where credit is due! From the outset of this, when Dan brought the tips, Sam said we needed a pocket between the bottom of the stud and the bottom of the cavity. The stud that goes into the cavity goes to the bottom of the cavity, leaving no air pocket or area in which to put pressure in the cavity. I was not sure, thinking maybe the stud would collapse inside, pushing the blades out? So we tested the three at high velocity, with one stud cut off, all three sheared at velocity so it still left a question mark?

Of course at lower velocity, one did not shear. Now, our Boy Boomy, comes up also independently and says we need an air pocket too!

quote:

BoomStick----I still think that a shorter shaft tip could be a key in reliable shearing. If the tip breaks off on a short shaft the tissue should enter the cavity enough to blow the petals off in my theory.

Well this nagged at me, so I tried it and guess what? Sam and Boomy, good job. There might have been someone else mention it, but Sam and Boomy are the LOUDEST so I remember then! LOL








It appears there is an even shear, all blades performing normal, and all 4 of these bullets drove straight and found nose forward, and of course you see a big increase in depth of penetration of the remaining slug! All I did was snip .200 off the stud with a pair of cutters! And of course I did not do a jam up job on that, but it works.

From now on, all tips will have just enough stud on them to leave a .200 air pocket in the bottom of the cavity, and they will look nicer than mine, and be straight from the factory in that configuration!

So, you boys have your tips now---
NEXT

Michael

Good stuff Michael!
Those great tips could make big bore lower pressure carts for Double Rifles ect into Plains Game rifles too if they have good sights or glass.
Was thinking that since the carnivore bullet would be for non DG maybe adjust the nose profile so that the petal tips would be thinner and shear at lower velocity but also act as a means to shear off the longer petals. Instead of having 67% nose tip diameter maybe around 45-50% start the nose angle further back or use an ogive profile.

quote:

It appears there is an even shear, all blades performing normal, and all 4 of these bullets drove straight and found nose forward, and of course you see a big increase in depth of penetration of the remaining slug! All I did was snip .200 off the stud with a pair of cutters! And of course I did not do a jam up job on that, but it works.

From now on, all tips will have just enough stud on them to leave a .200 air pocket in the bottom of the cavity, and they will look nicer than mine, and be straight from the factory in that configuration!

IMO, for DG hunting, having a tipped NonCon in the chamber and solids down would be a good standard practice. Good for the longer range opportunity shot on non DG without having to reload and no negative impact on penetration for the normal close range DG shot.

quote:

Was thinkingthat since the carnivore bullet would be for non DG

Boomy, there you go again, doing that thinking thing!

Now where do you get that the "BBW#13 Carnivore" is for Non DG?

Not True! In fact, the Carnivore is specific to Thin Skinned Dangerous Game--Bear, lion, leopard and some others. Just so happens that this is a great bullet for thin skinned non dangerous game as well, but it's number one purpose remains thin skinned DG.

No there won't be any changes to the BBW#13 HP! LOL..........

But, you did good on the tip stud, as did Sam, both of you on the same line of thought!

IBT

Well that would be one way to do things, and I really don't see a big down side to what you are thinking.

Michael

Michael458:

Raining to beat hell here this morning so, have a little time on my hands...here is just a coffee induced thought on the "tips" you are experimenting with.

If you REALLY wanted those petals to sheer as well as having an additional...object (don't want to use the word shrapnel) passing into the object, have you thought about making the "tip" of of something other than plastic?

Maybe a steal insert with a small reverse shoulder along the tail that goes into the hollow point. On impact (or shortly thereafter) the tip would be driven down into the hollow and force the petals to sheer pretty rapidly and end up being another object inflicting tissue damage.

You guys probably already thought of this and tossed it into the trash can without a second though. But since I don't recall any posts on a metal insert thought I'd toss it out.

One thing I've had a bit of fun with is taking a .458 300gr. JHP and putting a BB in the hollow point. I've got a die that fits in my press that I use to then close the hole. I can either just close it enough to keep the BB in or close the hole over completely (will also leave a hollow chamber without the BB). When these hit something they REALLY fragment.

m3Taco

Yes, Sam and I kicked around a brass tip for a few days, but never really got around to messing with it, Dan had the current tips and I think that got put on the back burner. Brass, or other metal would add a great deal to the costs I am afraid. But would work I am sure of it.

OK, out now, catch you guys when I see a computer!
M

quote:

It appears there is an even shear, all blades performing normal, and all 4 of these bullets drove straight and found nose forward, and of course you see a big increase in depth of penetration of the remaining slug! All I did was snip .200 off the stud with a pair of cutters! And of course I did not do a jam up job on that, but it works.

From now on, all tips will have just enough stud on them to leave a .200 air pocket in the bottom of the cavity, and they will look nicer than mine, and be straight from the factory in that configuration!

So, you boys have your tips now---
NEXT

Michael,

I’m not disagreeing with the need for a shorter insert length…but I’m primarily interested in using the Talon Tips with the BBW#13 Carnivores…so I’m not adverse to clipping the insert length should I want to use the Talon Tip on the standard BBW#13 HP NonCon. After all, Dan was nice enough to give us a nice groove on the insert that can be used as a cutting/clipping guide.

So I have a quick question: Could we have a test with a sampling of Carnivore bullets with the Talon Tips both modified and unmodified insert length so that modified Talon Tips to determine what performance difference the change will make before a final decision is given to Dan?

Thanks for considering my request.
Ignore my earlier comments...no reason the shorter shank Talon Tips wouldn't do the job.

It will be nice to see how the .500s will perform with the Talon Tips though when they're finally released.

Jim that groove you are talking about is the lock band that holds the insert in the bullet. Cut at it and tip will fall out.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Jim that groove you are talking about is the lock band that holds the insert in the bullet. Cut at it and tip will fall out.

Wow Sam...what a difference looking at them on my 17" laptop vs. my iPad2...I can see the band that you're talking about! Would the Talon Tip still hold in the bullet if the shank was cut below the locking band?

Jim,

We cut the tips below the band and they stay in fine. The shank of the tips is a slip fit and the band locks it in place.

Sam

Thanks Sam, that's good to know.

quote:

what a difference looking at them on my 17" laptop vs. my iPad2

Capo

Which is better? I have been thinking about the I-pad

SSR

Spend the extra money on the smallest Apple Air. You won't have to buy a whole bunch of extras like a stand and an external keyboard an you will have a real computer that is only slightly larger and a full operating system. The iPad is a fad device and only better if it were the size of the samsung version. The iPad needs an SD slot and USB ports. It's a closed system. Get the Air and spend about the same as the iPad and add on gadgets to make it into a real tool.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

what a difference looking at them on my 17" laptop vs. my iPad2

Capo

Which is better? I have been thinking about the I-pad

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

what a difference looking at them on my 17" laptop vs. my iPad2

Capo

Which is better? I have been thinking about the I-pad

SSR

SSR,

You need to spend some time in a Apple Store and play with their toys. It is strictly a personal thing.

My 17" laptop has replaced my desktop and smaller laptop computers. My iPad2 was a gift and I'm just now getting used to it. But Boomy has some good points regarding the Apple Air2 11"...it is a full computer and likely weighs less than my iPad with the Brookstone case that I use (leather with built-in keyboard).

On the flip side, a friend has replaced all of his MS based computers with Apples. He has a 27" iMac that he uses for his business and an 11" and 13" Apple Air notebooks...but he spends all of his non-work related time on his iPad and the notebooks get zero use now.

Totally a personal thing...get the best fit for you.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I will try and address all these wonderful ideas for bullets later, maybe in the morning. Right now I must get these tests posted for you!

First and foremost! I have been curious, I don't really like to post one bullet against another, and have not done that too much and don't intend to start now. Of course, a lousy bullet gets a lousy review from here, good gets good, excellent gets a raving review. First test up is a 458 caliber 450 gr Woodleigh Hydro Cup Point. I have said it from day one, Ugliest bullet I have ever seen, it still is ugly, and it's ugly in my 458 B&M too!



The 450 Hydro performed exactly as it should, a limited penetration Cup Point Solid. Nothing wrong with it's performance, it had 100% straight line penetration. For those wanting a limited penetration cup point solid for buffalo, I can seen no fault in that at all, it will do the job nicely, and has been doing so. Testing this today back to back with a North Fork FPS I really could not see much difference in trauma inflicted to the target between the two of them.




The North Fork FPS is much easier to load to a proper seating depth in our 458 B&M case. The North Fork FPS in depth of penetration and in straight line penetration is equal to or better than any 458 caliber 450 gr solid I have tested or worked with. It feeds and functions 100% in the Winchesters, a big plus. I had some issues with the Woodleighs, but one can sort that out I am sure.

I do like that North Fork Box, as you guys know! Damn box just looks good in those photos I think!




Michael

Gosh darn it Michael, I think those Hydros are beautiful