You are just jealous

Agent J

I hear you my friend! Hey, been over to the BM Website? Would you mind if I added your website in my page for links? Would be proud to have you on that team! But I will be adding a couple more bullet makers there, but would love to have yours there as well if it's ok with you????? Premier bullets for tough jobs!

Michael

Sure - add away!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
You are just jealous

Mike

EXCELLENT! Why hell yes I am jealous, look at those legs! Young, fit, look just like a PH. Hell I am old, gray and fat and ugly!

Perfect Photo of a man ready for "Safari"!

OK, got that thing loaded with 500 gr North Forks RIght?

That's the important thing, you may look good, have the right shoes, glasses, hat and shorts, but if you don't have the right bullet..........................

Good Show and Good Sport!

Michael

quote:

OK, got that thing loaded with 500 gr North Forks RIght?

That is Zayne van der Merwe's 500 Nitro with 570 Grain Woodleighs. I had a lowly 416 Rem with 400 grain TSX and BBS in a No. 1.

Zayne liked the Barnes bullets.

Mike

Oh man you know how it is with us bolt guys, all those doubles look alike to us, can't tell the difference. But I do like a 500! Zayne must be a pretty smart chap, I like Barnes bullets too, but I like lot's of bullets, I am a "bullet Slut" But only with bullets that WORK PROPER

M

Hum...Michael must be camped out in front of the air conditioner today. Needs to sweet talk “she who must be obeyed” into air conditioning the range!!!

Edit Added: P.S. I couldn’t resist after the whining about the heat and humidity on the other thread.

Jim

Well, back at the 50 yd I have a good unit, but 50 yds is a long way, down at 25 yds it starts to get a little warm. The range is well insulated, and somewhat surprising, down range with nothing on it never gets more than about 85 degrees, can get it cooled down to 80-81 with the air on and maintain. Still when doing terminals you sweat your ass off working. Recently I did check on having unit put in, costs were a little over $5000.00. Well, I got to thinking about all the bullets and rifles and what have you I could lay in for $5000, so I decided I could sweat a bit. We have some ugly weather during July and August, September things change drastically, so I figure I can get by for awhile. If I could think of anything nastier than "whining" about the heat I would say it, but that just about covers it.

I did manage to do a T'Rex test today with that multi band solid that Corbin came across. I wanted to check the construction of the bullet as compared to the ones I have been using. It did very good, about the same as the SSK bullet.



Michael

As for terminals I am behind and getting further behind! I have these loaded and ready to go.


Remember Sam's screw bullets? Sam come up short on meplat on these, I think they are wild looking, but I predict instability!





Another Sam design, this one looks good to me, big meplat, I predict excellent stability. It's a 500 gr one too, deep and straight.






I have several more that Sam sent recently to test, some of which are similar to the Hydros, very interesting. I will try and get these loaded soon and posted.

Michael

Michael,

I was screwing with you and you took it seriously didn't you!!!!!!!

Sam

Sam

Hey the screw bullets do look wild don't they? Hey, I don't play when it comes to "BULLETS"! I said from the get go that you were screwing with me, heh! Hey, Friday shaping up for you ok? I am trying to get ready for that, made hardly any progress on that today however. Will have to double up on work tomorrow. But Friday is going to work for me, will make it so.

M

Michael,

Yeah it nothing happens we are on for Friday. Have guns will travel!

Friday it is then! Buffalo, Friday is 577 day!

M

quote:

Jim

Well, back at the 50 yd I have a good unit, but 50 yds is a long way, down at 25 yds it starts to get a little warm. The range is well insulated, and somewhat surprising, down range with nothing on it never gets more than about 85 degrees, can get it cooled down to 80-81 with the air on and maintain. Still when doing terminals you sweat your ass off working. Recently I did check on having unit put in, costs were a little over $5000.00. Well, I got to thinking about all the bullets and rifles and what have you I could lay in for $5000, so I decided I could sweat a bit. We have some ugly weather during July and August, September things change drastically, so I figure I can get by for awhile. If I could think of anything nastier than "whining" about the heat I would say it, but that just about covers it.

Michael I’m with you…that’s always a decision you make when the weather’s good, not to hot not to cold.

Bullet integrity looks very good on Corbin’s Cutting Edge Solid find!! Kudos to Corbin and Cutting Edge.

Sam is in the wrong business! I’m looking forward to the Screw Bullet tests, should be very interesting. Will the screw slots assist in maintaining within-mass penetration-stability??? Or are they for looks only? Ya have to test them even if Sam was messing with you!!! That 500gr .500 caliber looks cool and very businesslike in appearance…definitely will be a deep driver; let us know how it feeds from the magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Friday it is then! Buffalo, Friday is 577 day!

M

Can`t wait - just can`t wait!!!

Michael and Sam - I am feeling like a kid the day before christmas now...

Buff

Me too, getting ready that is. As I understand Sam has made up 10 different bullets for review, at 2 each, thats a lot of test medium. The 577s have no mercy on test medium, chews and spits out lot's of it.

Lot's of test data getting ready to roll in the next few days. I am going to try and get some work done this morning too.

M

I was thinking this week (yes-Dangerous) about adding all the terminals we have done to my B&M website, it's own category Bullet Tech or Terminal Bullet Performance, something like that. Then under that page separate and organize into separate pages by caliber, then maybe by cartridge or maybe bullet type, something like that. That way we could always refer to those pages for those results. ??????? What do you think?

Michael

Michael,

Thats a great idea! Especially by caliber. Would make it much easier to look back at what has been done. 81 pages is a lot to scroll through.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

Thats a great idea! Especially by caliber. Would make it much easier to look back at what has been done. 81 pages is a lot to scroll through.

Sam

My thinking also.

OK< off to the range for test work, and getting ready for our 577 tests tomorrow!

M

EXCELLENT IDEA!!!

Getting everything together in one spot will be easy to refer back too, and I have lot's of space unused on the site. So I will start working on putting that together over the next few days, weeks as I have time. Easy to do, not a big chore at all. Just takes a bit of time.


6.5 bullets tested. Now for the 9.3, and back to the range.

Michael

OK got a few little things caught up this morning. Starting with SMALL BORE







No really big surprises. I am sure Corbin would have thought the 166 would still be going, thru 10 ft medium, thru 10 ft of dirt, 2 ft of concrete, then out the back of the building, another 2 ft of concrete, but it was not to be. Bullet has a 72% meplat, driving straight, looked really good. The 128 performed as expected too.

M

9.3 next. Here I got a surprise, and little disappointed in the 225 gr bullet. I can't explain why it lost stability. It drove dead straight to 40-44 inches then just started leaving town???? It has everything going for it, meplat, twist rate is fine, just no real reason for it to lose stability?





The 250 gr version of the same bullet did just great. This is the one. I think that I must reorder my 286 North Forks and give them a shot at this too. Just have not had time to get around to it. I think a bullet like this 250 at or around 260-265 grs would be an excellent all around solid for 9.3.

This is "Bastard File Bullet Works" hydro version. While it did well enough at the end of penetration it wanted to move around a little. Not much, 1 inch off course.

I was most disappointed with this bullet to be honest. Man, this was a big nice looking bullet. Just not as stable at the end of penetration as other nose profiles. Big meplat, should not have left course, but one of them did. Also not nearly as deep as they should have been, they should have been getting all over 60 inches of penetration. As we see, just can't put a nice proper meplat on a bullet and make it work, nose profile is still important!

Do take notice of that velocity!!!!!! This is from my slowest 50 B&M with an 18 inch barrel. Same load as I use for the 510 and 515s at 2105 fps. These at 2166 fps!

Also a note of interest on shot # 2 of these I blew the focus out of the 1.5X5 Leupold VX3 that was on the rifle! Focus is history! Did not loose POI, however!

Michael,

All very interesting! Didn't someone say the 166 gr 6.5 would not fly? I was surprised at how poorly the hydro did.

Sam

Michael,

Did your scope lose focus or did your eyes get crossed? No just kidding, Those 50 B&M's are sweet shooting guns.

Sam

Sam

Well at 22 yds I didn't give that 166 too much room to fly eh? When I first looked at the entrance I thought it looked a little strange? Still not 100% sure, but as I peeled back the layers it was 100% terminally stable all the way. It flies thru the test medium pretty sporty!

Yes, that was the same load, 70/IMR 4198 and that big brass bullet hit with authority at muzzle velocity of 2166 fps. I could not believe it until I shot the second one and got the same! That is the fastest any 500 gr bullet has been run out of the 50. Not too bad, and that's the slowest gun I got by about 20 fps or so.

When the Leupolds blow, they tend to blow the focus. Just like it explodes. I slapped this one a time or two and focus came back in, but at the next shot it will knock out again. I will finish the test work with it, then send it to Tim. Not bad, this is only two sent back in two years now, both 1.5X5 VX3s! The other was on a 500 MDM.

Michael

Michael,

I wonder if I made you a .458 or .500 bullet just like the 6.5 what it would weigh and how it would perform? Might be real interesting!

Sam

Some observations
it looks like the "hydro" did not have the concave nose like the Woodleigh. I am sure the hydro bullets if faithfully coppied er um I mean used as the inspiration would do great.
The 500 grain 70% meplat long nose Bastard bullets was interesting to me. I wonder if a slight radius would aid penetration instead of the sharp edge. Maybe repeat the test with two sharp edge and two rounded edge. Maybe the rounded edge helps the flow of media or the sharp edge acts like an 80% meplat would. More damage but less penetration. The barnes banded solids half round half flat could be acting like a radius allowing the media to flow around the bullet better
I am glad to see the big meplat Knitting needles did well.
Thanks again for this important work you are doing Michael! You are the man!

Boomy

You are welcome for the and thanks for the kind words. But right now a good portion of this work would not be possible if it were not for "Bastard File Bullet Works" By Sam!

Nose profile is important, there are good profiles, and not so good. Trial and error. It does not take much to completely change the behavior of a solid. The slightest change makes a big difference. Sam and I will look at some of these tomorrow, and discuss them.

A slight radius might just make a lot of difference?

Michael

Boomy,

No my modified hydro did not have the cup point on purpose. After Michael and I saw how the cup point penetrated less than a flat point in my 577 I had the idea to try and copy the hydro without the cup point to see if it would go deeper. I had no Woodleigh hydro to copy so I did the best I could from photos. I'm sure Woodleigh has done much testing on their design. Time is the main factor in what can be tested and there are thousands of things we could do to the bullet design that might or might not work. Michael's meplat test shows us that meplat does have a major effect in how a bullet performs. Nose profiles also probably have a lot to do with it also. Who really knows what is the best design. I've been toying with the idea of wind tunnels to see what is happening at the nose of the bullet. So many things that could be tried.

Sam

Well all the truncated nose designs have a radius like north fork, our much loved African GSC, S&H ect. The same test with a radius like the S&H one and the sharp edge one will answer this question. It does seem that the meplat edge might be a factor. I would guess the sharp edge might make a more devestating wound channel at the loss of some penetration. We are delving into fluid dynamics here.
Thanks to Bastard file bullet works too!

Today is 577 day...

hey, I'm excited, too, even if I never plan to hunt with a .577.
[[I'd love to have a little 505 Gibss/Rigby/AR/500MDM though kind of heavy for 'local license meat hunter' ('e don't do tembo).]]

Hey Boys! Good Morning. 6:20 AM, I am getting the range ready, Sam is on the way. He should arrive around 8-8:30 or so. We will be shooting soon!

Michael

"The depressed nose at the leading edge of the bullet 'cores' the medium (flesh) through which it is travelling which then creates a 'pressure ring'. The coring and pressure ring balance each other out to stabilise the bullet in the direction of travel. If the bullet hits hard bone the flesh core dissipates but immediately reforms and the balance between it and the pressure ring restabilises to redirect the bullet in the original direction of travel.
"
From the Woodleigh Bullets home page. MAY explain the instability experienced.

http://www.woodleighbullets.co...tatically-stabilised

Interesting comments on the Woodleigh page. I think Con mentioned earlier the individual actually designed the bullet(s) Woodleigh is selling as their Hydrostatically Stabliised bullet line. I don't recollect whether the concept was sold to Woodleigh or whether Woodleigh contracts for their manufacture.

Looking forward to today's 577 bullet test!

Boys! 577 Test done! Sam on the way home! Just now sitting down, we were at it pretty hard all day long! It is pretty extensive, I count two tests just for velocity sake between a couple of things, such as lubed vs non lubed bullets going down the bore reducing pressures. Which brings us to another subject. Sam and I think we are going to hook up one of the doubles with strain gages rear for normal pressure readings, front for pressures at the end of the barrel. We are thinking of testing several different bullet designs to see what sort of pressure we are putting on the barrels, and seeing what we can learn from that? Might be instrumental in seeing how these solids might be working, and the strains involved? Next!

We tested 11 different bullet designs today from 675 gr bullet up to 750s. It's after 4 pm my time now. There is no way I can get it posted today, SO SORRY!!!!!!! I will work on it some this afternoon, labels, photos and such. Work on it first thing in the morning and start getting it posted then, OK?

I have so much information to go through and sometimes my field notes are ugly.

Whew, just about ready for the big chair!

Concerning the Woodleighs. I have not tested but one the 400 gr 458. It did great at 50 inches dead straight as I recall. Well it has a 70% meplat and a CUP POINT--but the cup does not reduce penetration, not at 50 inches with a 400 gr 458! Way back Sam and I were thinking after a huge reduction of penetration with a cup point, that take the cup out, would the design still penetrate as well, or more. Well the 430 .500 gr bullet has a 70% meplat as I recall and just looking back I would give it 38-40 inches average veering just a bit only being 1" off course, not much in my book. At .246 SD and the 400 458 Hydro at .272 SD, I'd say that's pretty close. I am pretty sure I had quite a bit more velocity to boot in the 458 than I purposely was running the .500. So all and all, looking at, taking all factors into consideration, they are actually running pretty close. What I can't understand just yet about the Woodleigh Hydro is the cup point! Under almost all circumstances the cup point reduces penetration, not increases? No flies on the WOodleigh, and I too recall Mike testing the 470 Woodleighs, deep! Now how can that cup point be doing that? Something we intend to investigate! As I have developed a curiosity about these cup points.

I must get on with working this data. Gees.

Michael