quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Andy

I expect the 900 gr BBW#13s to penetrate completely box #1 at any reasonable velocity. I intend to test at some lower velocity as well. I expect even hi 50 inches to 60+ at even low velocity impacts 1800-1900 fps. The BBW#13 is about the best nose profile I have worked with or seen. It also likes velocity--. I expect nothing but 100% straight line deep penetration.

Also looking at lower limits on the NonCons too. We will put the .620s thru the paces. Doc is sending some extra other bullets as well we will test.

Michael

From a few pages back......If you infact like the lighter bullets, why is the .620 BBW#13 900gr??!

Would be nice to see a 650 grain 585 BBW and 750 grain 620 BBW

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
From a few pages back......If you infact like the lighter bullets, why is the .620 BBW#13 900gr??!

When Michael and I first spoke of these .620s he mentioned they would go for the "traditional" 900 grain pill simply for the DR folk who might have doubles regulated with 900 grainers.

Macifej, GS Custom and Robgunbuilder all make sub-900 grain solids in .620" diameter. Jay's and GSC are about 800 and RGB's are 730 IRC.

You can drive these faster and feel less recoil than felt with the 900s. The .620" Non-Cons are somewhere around 800 grains - it will be interesting to see how these penetrate compared to the heavier solids in the 600 Overkill.

No idea how any will regulate out of a double - yet

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Would be nice to see a 650 grain 585 BBW and 750 grain 620 BBW

Well, I can say that the 585AHR spitting out 650grain .585 Woodleigh BP softs is:
a) a lot of fun
b) easy to handle
and
c) explosive on any water-laden target; i.e. watermellon, water jug, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Andy

I expect the 900 gr BBW#13s to penetrate completely box #1 at any reasonable velocity. I intend to test at some lower velocity as well. I expect even hi 50 inches to 60+ at even low velocity impacts 1800-1900 fps. The BBW#13 is about the best nose profile I have worked with or seen. It also likes velocity--. I expect nothing but 100% straight line deep penetration.

Also looking at lower limits on the NonCons too. We will put the .620s thru the paces. Doc is sending some extra other bullets as well we will test.

Michael

From a few pages back......If you infact like the lighter bullets, why is the .620 BBW#13 900gr??!

Sasquatch

A very EXCELLENT Question, and I am happy you brought it up! All of the CEB BBW#13s, in the following calibers, .620-.585-.474-.457 (480/450)--416 400/375--.409 400/375s--375 300/275--are all in the traditional weights starting with the solids, as they are designed for the "General Public" and for most in the double rifles in which these may regulate easier in traditional weights. I don't even own a double rifle. So I can't say if lighter BBW#13s would regulate better, easier or not? Some do--some might--and some will not.

For myself for example, I use the .458 450/420 combo in the 458 B&Ms, in the 416 B&M the 350/325 combo. I had thought to do a 500 gr .458 BBW#13 for those with 458 Lott and up, but the 480 gr is so good, there is zero reason to do that.

Unless you are familiar with the work we have done here, then traditional weights stand. I am in no position, nor do I even care to try to convince the rest of the world we can do as good, and sometimes better with a lighter bullet. Most would think I had lost my mind? So I will do what I need to do with mine, the rest will have to do what they think as well--fortunately the BBW#13 nose profile is so good, that we can have a choice, there is no real downside, and much depends on the cartridge/rifle combination as well and the velocity the cartridge can run at.

Make any sense to you???

Now if I was running .620 and .585 here, mine--you would see lighter bullets, but since I run up to .510 and mostly .500 then I really don't care to invest the $$ to get the bullets here and then they sit on the shelf. Speaking of .500 caliber, my 500 MDM I designed for 550 gr bullets--I am running 500 gr bullets, as there is no need to have more weight. An elephant is only so big? Can't wait until clones come out and huntable populations of dinos are available, still can do with less SD probably anyway! LOL

M

Doc M,

Hope you can hear the thunderous applause from Tennessee!
Perfection is worth the wait!
Well done!

Given the records of the 450/400 , 416 Rigby, and 404J I purpose that with the 416 B&M w/350 CCB#13s-325 CCB#13 non-con HP-325 NF SS I am WELL armed for anything huntable on Earth. I see no problem with elephant with the solid and am certain that the NF SS will be a super elk-eland-Cat -Bear bullet.

Other rounds are fun, but to me I just cant see needing anything bigger.

That said I cant wait for the 475 B&M to debut


But not from a functional point. I am not a pro backing up charges , I am the Hunter, tasked with making the shot. If a bit less recoil makes me more accurate I will happily take that tradeoff because I believe Michael has made these cartridges much more effective than ever before.

Which after all was pretty damn good.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Given the records of the 450/400 , 416 Rigby, and 404J I purpose that with the 416 B&M w/350 CCB#13s-325 CCB#13 non-con HP-325 NF SS I am WELL armed for anything huntable on Earth.

Other rounds are fun, but to me I just cant see needing anything bigger.

That said I cant wait for the 475 B&M to debut


SSR

LOL

It's never about "needing" ...

According to many if not most, a .375 (or 9.3)is all we "need" for anything on the planet ...

But I share your enthusiasm for something new and am looking forward to Michael458's take on a 577/.585 as well as his 475 ...

quote:

Originally posted by 450NE:
Doc M,

Hope you can hear the thunderous applause from Tennessee!
Perfection is worth the wait!
Well done!

450NE

Right now it is 100%! I only fired around 15 rds or so in it today. However, I was putting it to work, slinging brass a good 15 ft and bouncing on the walls. No feed, retain, function issues at all. Shooting a 450 CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon, 2202 fps. Flip up big bead, dead center, little brass bead, just below it. Will send you a photo of it soon as I can. Also, will be working with some other bullets tomorrow, and the rest of the week. Very excellent thus far, very pleased with it. Exactly same loads and velocities as in my rifle I am taking to Africa in June.

Excellent results on my buddies 416 B&M, 325 CEB BBW#13 HP at 2540 fps--absolutely 1 hole--5 rounds, 50 yds. 1.25 inches high, he can handle anything he wants out to 250 yds and do nothing. Not bad. He will be using this in Namibia the end of the month for plains game.

His 50 B&M shooting the same with 460 BBW#13 HPs and 500 gr BBW#13 Solids--very excellent results today with all.

CrossL, Honestly, I think you are spot on all the way. The 416 B&M is very versatile, as are most of the 416s, the B&M is just in such a nice short, light handy package, I think it is far above the rest in versatility. The bullets now, incredible. We know what Sam's friend Doug did last year with the 330 SSK/Lehigh Bullet and two buffalo, I believe the 325 BBW#13 is a better bullet, for deeper penetration, and stability. So..........! I know, the 350 BBW#13 is a better bullet than the Barnes, and it is damned good--or it used to be until the nose gets rounded off! I too like that 325 North Fork in a conventional--I equate it to being like the 400 in 458--Which I am taking some of those to play with--1 inch high POI in my 458 B&M to the BBW#13s. I am going to whack something with that too. Zebra maybe, something?

475 B&M--Waiting on Hornady Dies--then I am going to be all over it, and the Super Short. Bullets are in the works now from North Fork and CEB for both these of course! It will be fun!

Doc, right, who needs a 100+ Winchester M70s, or 35+ 1911 45 ACPs? But I can't find nothing better, or anything else I want! LOL....so just get some more! Change stocks or something, make like a new rifle--HEH HEH.......

Gotta hang some musk oz on the wall tomorrow if we can! Woolly buggers I tell you!

Michael

"But not from a functional point. I am not a pro backing up charges , I am the Hunter, tasked with making the shot. If a bit less recoil makes me more accurate I will happily take that tradeoff because I believe Michael has made these cartridges much more effective than ever before."



ALL cartridges of the caliber that can use the CEB and NF bullets that pass this testing.

Students of MIB:
Isn't the M70 bolt diameter .700" just like the CZ 550 Magnum and standard and magnum Mauser 98, and Ruger M77, RSM and Hawkeye?
.416 Rigby on the M70 Winchester is less of a chore and hazard than doing it on a standard Mauser like Harry Selby's.
No opening up the action length required for the M70 long action/RUM action.
Better than a Mauser in that regard.
I heard through the grapevine that the Winchetser Custom Shop made two .416 Rigby rifles on M70s.
Griffen&Howe on a pre-64 too, eh?

To me a .500/.338 Lapua on a long action M70 is akin to the .458 B&M in a short action. Spritely!

I loaded the CEB 450-grain Brass FN and 420-grain Brass NonCon for the .458 B&M, still have not shot it, that's next.
Used pressure tested MIB data ... 77 grains of AA2520 for starters ... conserving bullets ... I know, should have started at 70 grains of powder and worked up ...
I also have plenty of 450-grain/.458-cal North Fork FP, SP, and CP.

Let us be sure to keep both CEB and North Fork in business,
and not have Doc M doing it all himself!

.500-caliber North forks are still prototypes?
Not shown on their website?
49 Lapua load data should be identical to .500 MDM.
Thanks!

RIP

quote:

.416 Rigby on the M70 Winchester is less of a chore and hazard than doing it on a standard Mauser like Harry Selby's.
No opening up the action length required for the M70 long action/RUM action.
Better than a Mauser in that regard.

How difficult is a conversion of a CZ 416 to
a 500 Mbogo? Could you PM recommended places and estimates?

RIP

M70 Bolt, not so sure about any of that, out of my area of expertise? I am hoping that you find out something along these lines!


Don't tell anyone of course, but with the info I have, I would rock and roll with the 458 B&M and 77-78 gr of AA 2520, never look back! Very compressed, but of no consequence, hammer down.

No, .500 caliber North Forks are not a prototype, approved, and up and shooting. I bought 500 of each in the last order, have plenty on hand, 15% discount, you can have all you want at what they cost me. 450 FPS and CPS (Expanding CPS) and 375 FPS and CPS on hand. They should have been added to the NF website, John has been busy, guess they have not done so yet. But I have plenty of them.

M

Question for Vox Populi

As a potential annex of the MIB I have a crew moving dirt. Is a 100 yard range enough or should I stretch things to 200? There is room at other sites on the ranch to shoot out to 1000yds, i am wondering about the range at the house with permanent benches, cover and such.

100 or 200?

SSR

200

CrossL

Perfect situation!

200 Yards full range. Permanent bench starting at 25 yds to shoot and sight in all iron sights, rifle, handgun, what have you, and even start off with scoped sight in. Off Set some, bench at 50 yds. Sight in and work with big bore dangerous game rifles, 50 yds is all you ever need for that. Benches off set from 25/50 yd benches, at 100 and then 200 yds--that covers everything you could ever want to do.

Here of course 99% of everything I do is indoors at 50 yds. I do have outside benches at 50 and 100 yds. I could go a tiny bit more for about a 140 yds total here on the compound. My outside benches are growing things on them, from non-use! Only very occasionally I check things at 100yds, as 99% of everything I do is big bores, 50 is plenty.

If you could do something like that--that would cover anything one would ever need to do. Unless you want to play long range or something? Off set benches, 25--50--100--and 200! Excellent!

My 2 cents worth!

Stock at AI now!

450NE

The boys here are liking your rifle and stock!

I was not able to do any range work today--try to do some tomorrow!

Michael

Michael,



Why the multiple off set benches?

Why not one set of covered benchs at one nice spot, with a big honkin berm at 200 yds and set your targets anywhere in between?



SSR

quote:

475 B&M--Waiting on Hornady Dies--then I am going to be all over it, and the Super Short. Bullets are in the works now from North Fork and CEB for both these of course! It will be fun!

That's the one that particularly interests me for some reason. (Of course all the tests have been interesting.) The .475 and even the overbore (.476? .477?) rifles you received from Winchester.

quote:

Why the multiple off set benches?

Why not one set of covered benchs at one nice spot, with a big honkin berm at 200 yds and set your targets anywhere in between?

Sounds reasonable to me. As a Rigby-ite I like 200. And 300-400 is better, though a luxury.

Last October we watched a monster eland trot along at 425 yards, gray and massive, towering over the cows. (it was in a no hunting zone, so no shot even if we wanted). It was "takable" when it stopped, and wasn't moving closer. They didn't get the 'wanderer' name for nothing. I've only shot 1% of animals at a 400 yard range (one was a roan-338, one a little dorcas-270). It is nice to know what a bullet and rifle will do, should the call ever come.

I agree that this is a VERY marginal concern for the over .400 crowd. But I only carry one rifle at a time, and nowhere near as often as I would like. So knowing exactly where a bullet will be at 200, 250, even 300 yards is practical.

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:

quote:

475 B&M--Waiting on Hornady Dies--then I am going to be all over it, and the Super Short. Bullets are in the works now from North Fork and CEB for both these of course! It will be fun!

That's the one that particularly interests me for some reason. (Of course all the tests have been interesting.) The .475 and even the overbore (.476? .477?) rifles you received from Winchester.

For what ever reason I am the same,With me its just something differnt. Curious about how much shoulder there is on the 475, . I am not sure about a 475 SS but the 458 SS makes all the sense in the world to me. A short light rifle with lots of punch for a truck gun. and all those 45 cal bullets. still want to try a 180-200 gr hollowpoint

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Michael,



Why the multiple off set benches?

Why not one set of covered benchs at one nice spot, with a big honkin berm at 200 yds and set your targets anywhere in between?



SSR

Good Morning ALL.

CrossL

Oh, just thinking purely in terms of range safety on the closer off set benches. Keeping all targets just in front of the dirt berm assures all bullets go into the dirt berm. I have seen many public ranges, targets set close, and watch bullets hit far short of the berm, and then bounce over the berm going who knows where? Just a safety thing is all. Where you are may be totally different, my outside shooting I have to take extreme care to contain everything.



Glenn and Cross

I have been put off of .474 caliber for a very long time, via those damned Capsticks I had so many issues with from day one. The 475 B&M and it's Super Short buddy, not much more than just something else for me to put some creativity in, another step to learn and investigate the B&M cartridges, a platform to have some newer up to date, lighter .474 caliber bullets. Right now, as I see it, it's about the last real, practical caliber that I can take the B&M cartridges to. And be different from anything else out there. As for cartridge development, which I enjoy as it's always a sort of a mystery, it will most likely be my last one, as I don't have anything else on the books. Oh sure, there are other things that can be done, but from a real practical standpoint, not much with the B&M cartridges. I had put off the 475s as there are really no practical bullets for them. The 2.25 inch B&M RUM case is equal to 458 Winchester capacity, slightly more. So it has always been my thoughts that 458 Win Capacity needs lighter bullets--450s as optimum. Same with the 416 B&M--350s optimum, giving both velocity, caliber, weight, good enough for serious work. Same with the 475 B&M--I am going with lighter weights--but there are none available from other sources. Now who needs those other sources with bullet manufactures like CEB and North Fork? I don't, I can accomplish my missions very well without a Woodleigh, Barnes, or Hornady! So it was time for the final B&M, the 475.

Which I may mention comes in a true .474 caliber barrel, 1:10 twist rate! So I am thinking this might work out pretty good!

Seems to me that .474 caliber has always come up a bit short, mostly because of the limited number of cartridges available, and the limited amount of real bullet development for that reason. What is really out there? 470 Nitros and 470 Capstick being the most popular and easy to do? Yes, there are others, but no one has done much along the lines of making proper bullets in that caliber. Even in 500 gr weights. A few, yes. North Fork. But everything has been limited to mostly 500s. Oh, there are the Turnbulls, but limited to lever guns.

Now for the Super Short it will be able to utilize available handgun bullets in .474. I have some Hornady, and Sam dropped off some Speers that may do very well in it as a common every day bullet. But even there I think it's rather limited as well. I went over to Midway with a mind set of getting some bullets in for the Super Short to start test work with--I did not even place an order, just was not much that gave interest, maybe I must look again.

Right now, personally, just kicking back waiting on the bullets and dies to come in so I can start work on these. I have not worked up a great amount of enthusiasm yet for these, I suspect when I get actual bullets in hand I might start to get excited about them. We will see.


Michael

Michael,

My interest in the 475 is just cause its differnt. As stated elsewhere the 416 is more than enough for me to hunt anything anywhere with.

The 458 SS as a truck gun looks super fun also-again with more bullet choice than you can shake a stick at.

Range safety is always a concern. I have 500 acs here with only a few houses within a mile of me and they are on one side only, so I am thinking a single point with berm and a hill behind that.

SSR

Cross

All the Super Shorts are excellent throw in the truck guns for general purpose. I do the same with one of my 50 Super Shorts. When I go to the farm, throw it in the back and off we go!

Yeah on your range with lot's of surrounding acres you will be fine with a single point I would think. Berm and a Hill! Not much of an issue! You see here in the Coastal Plains of SC when there is a foot rise in elevation, well that is our HILL. LOL. Biggest hill I have seen close to me is my berm on the outside range, about 15 foot! Hell, that's a mountain here!


M

Michael;

I think you need to get out into the field and let Africa/Australia given your senses a good flushing. It's apparent that missing your trip this past year has resulted in severe sensory depervation!!

As for bullets, I'd love to see one for the dynamic duo (CEB and NF), preferably, CEB, with a 395 to fit RIP's "line". I know he has S&H and GSC producing them but I've got to have #13!!

IBT

Doc M,

As I've said before my favorite thread on AR!!

I'm looking at a 404J ( it is really an old Jeffery..an original one made around 1908) as being the only rifle for a number of reasons..and I dunno why you have done no tests on the brass non cons in that caliber.

I think one of your 300-320 grn brass non cons in that caliber would be the bees knees i.e absolutely great...along with a 13* solid say at around 350...here I am being quite traditional. What I would really really like is a non con of around 270 grns or so, at close to 3k fps and a solid to go with that. What do you think Doc?

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:
Michael;

I think you need to get out into the field and let Africa/Australia given your senses a good flushing. It's apparent that missing your trip this past year has resulted in severe sensory depervation!!

As for bullets, I'd love to see one for the dynamic duo (CEB and NF), preferably, CEB, with a 395 to fit RIP's "line". I know he has S&H and GSC producing them but I've got to have #13!!

IBT

IBT

Yes, I am looking forward to this years excursion into the bush. In some years past, I did not look so forward to it, I had "traveled out" and was tired of the BS hassles. So it was good to take some time off, now I am ready again.

Well, as for bullets today--if you can dream it, you can have it! Or it seems to me to be that way.



Esskay

Many thanks--You are in a small minority that has voiced need for .423s! I don't have a 404, or you can believe we would have been working them over. We can do this all it takes is some commitment especially since I am not shooting .423 myself, of course I could rattle them down the barrel of a 458 I suppose, but my experiment bouncing 416s down a 458 barrel did not provide any stability at all recently-HEH HEH. 350 Solid? I thought traditional was more around 400? I think you could do 350/325 and have plenty of everything you need. I also think you could do a noncon at 270 or so and do the rest of everything you need as well! LOL......

Michael

I managed to get a terminal test in this morning on the 460 CEB BBW#13 Brass NonCon out of one of the .477 caliber Capsticks. Very important that you keep in mind "Stability" out of these guns is not what it should be or could be, if it were a .474 caliber barrel! In the test I did 3 bullets, one is still somewhere in the box, I grabbed the two that were where they were supposed to be and here we are. All three sheared perfectly at 2 inches, and as the story goes blades penetrated to 6-7 inches as normal. No, I did not recover all 18 blades, as you never do. Some went out of the box in the top, normal, and who knows where from there. Really need to start putting something on top at 6-8 inches I suppose, just to contain.

I started these off at just above 2100 fps, had an impact at 22 yds of 2050 fps. Going to 50 yds impact would be something along the lines of 2000 fps or slightly lower, and these will shear at 50 yds I have all confidence in. So if you are a 470 Nitro sort of chap, at 2150 fps, which should be easy, then you are good to go on shear, for buffalo up to at least 50 yds. Ought not to shoot buffalo past that anyway with irons! Of course, I know we all do commit horrendous acts at times, and go beyond 50 yds, even yours truly!





These did loose stability, but made it to a minimum of 23 inches before doing so. This has nothing to do with the bullet, and everything to do with a .474 caliber bullet going down a .477 bore. As you can see, there is no engraving at all, not even a faint mark! Akin to going down a smooth bore, so whatever stability there was is because of a pretty damned good bullet!

I think this bullet is certainly ready for field use, in a proper bore sized rifle.

Michael

quote:

So if you are a 470 Nitro sort of chap, at 2150 fps

I know that chap!!

I hope to dop a little testing if time permits. The BBW's have shot and regulated extremely well out of my 470.

As always thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

So if you are a 470 Nitro sort of chap, at 2150 fps

I know that chap!!

I hope to dop a little testing if time permits. The BBW's have shot and regulated extremely well out of my 470.

As always thanks.

And You are just EXACTLY the "Chap" I was thinking of! HEH HEH............

Very good news about the bullet regulating for you as well! They have regulated well for 450NE too in both his rifles.

Would you like for me to test at lower velocity? I think I can drop it some without a problem.

Michael

quote:

These did loose stability, but made it to a minimum of 23 inches before doing so. This has nothing to do with the bullet, and everything to do with a .474 caliber bullet going down a .477 bore. As you can see, there is no engraving at all, not even a faint mark! Akin to going down a smooth bore, so whatever stability there was is because of a pretty damned good bullet!

I think this bullet is certainly ready for field use, in a proper bore sized rifle.

That's right! It was the .470 Capstick! Thanks for the reminder!
So I suppose a .476 diameter bullet going down the tube would fare better, as used in the .476 Westley Richards. The problem with these bullets that I can foresee is that the selection of bullets for this caliber seems to be fairly limited in case one wanted to make a .476 Capstick.
Still that caliber fascinates me somehow. Maybe in a past life I was a great bwana who swore by his .470 Nitro or .476 WR double.

Hey Michael
Will a 505 Gibs case cut to 2.1" single stack in a WSM action?

An embarassment of riches arrived at my house yesterday.
Wife gave me hell for a while about ordering near 50 pounds or $2000 worth of bullets.
She shut up when I told her I didn't do it,
that the mad scientist, Doc M, who wears black lab coats did it!
I was just flabbergasted by it all.
I reckon I won't have any urgent need of .500-caliber bullets for some time, yet to come:


Here are some .458 B&M test loads:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

So if you are a 470 Nitro sort of chap, at 2150 fps

I know that chap!!

I hope to dop a little testing if time permits. The BBW's have shot and regulated extremely well out of my 470.

As always thanks.

And You are just EXACTLY the "Chap" I was thinking of! HEH HEH............

Very good news about the bullet regulating for you as well! They have regulated well for 450NE too in both his rifles.

Would you like for me to test at lower velocity? I think I can drop it some without a problem.

Michael

I am going to try to perform a little testing at lower velocities this weekend. I looked at my test box and it had a weedeater in it. Damn near brought a tear of shame to my eye.

And Rip I have received a couple of those boxes. Michael458 is the man!!

RIP

HEH HEH HEH.........

Wife almost beat your LOL.........

OK, here is the deal on that, a big bulk of the bullets are those WIDE spaced 4 band bullets, 500 CEBs. Ya'll know me, I over ordered those WIDE spaced Bands, before I gave them a good accuracy workout along with everything else. This is when I learned that we need another band up top to help guide the bullet, keep it straight going into the bore. Seated out they do ok, seated deep too much jump and accuracy suffers terribly. So, you are doing me a favor getting some of those off my shelves so I can get the others in. These will be good to work up load data and such, so shoot them up, then I will send more! Pretty much the same with those copper seal tite band bullets that Dan did, I have way too many of those, and I really don't much like those bands, so you got a few of those as well!

I sent Capo a bunch of these too so he could do load data with his 50 MDM with them. I still have more of those, so shoot away boys, we will find some more when you run out! Doing me a favor getting some of these off my shelves so I can make room to get more improved versions in!

LOL

Enjoy!

M

Good to see you survived April Fool's day, Michael. It sounded a bit iffy for a while there.

quote:

I am going to try to perform a little testing at lower velocities this weekend. I looked at my test box and it had a weedeater in it. Damn near brought a tear of shame to my eye.

And Rip I have received a couple of those boxes. Michael458 is the man!!


Mike

A WEED EATER? Oh man, shame! I am thinking that there might be a shear issue when getting out to 75-100 yds with the .474s, but that is not what they are about anyway. Still, even then, they will do the job regardless. But I think inside 50 yds, hammers!

Let us know what you come up with.


Yes, let me share with all my little April Fools--on me! Rather stressful week this past week to begin with. So yesterday I had a little doctors appointment, so the wife and I are on the way to that. She goes with to make sure I get the story straight, and don't leave anything out! So we are having this discussion about something, when just out of the blue she states;

I'm Pregnant!

What did you say?

I'm Pregnant!

Are you kidding, how do you change the subject so abruptly? We were talking about this, and now you are saying you are Pregnant? Where does that come from? You are kidding?

(my blood is beginning to heat up somewhat--What the hell?)

No, I'm not kidding.

Well, how the F*&$ did that happen?

Are you stupid?

(now the blood has heated to the boiling point)

Yes, according to you I am stupid, GD$*mIT, now you want to all the sudden, out of the blue, tell me this NOW?

(I am driving now, and beginning to straighten up in my seat, eyes going wild, blood vessels popping, even snatching the wheel of the truck around somewhat--shit is getting ready to hit hard)

Big Smile---April Fools!

It takes a few seconds for that to now sink in....................

She thinks this is funny! I just did not see all the "Humor" in this! Now, for the rest of the day my reactions to all this was taken into question, almost in the "Dog House" last night, but this morning all seems to have sorted out, after she has had a good laugh, and of course has told all my buddies here about it too!

So I got to thinking on the way home, maybe I should have something done quickly, I almost took a hammer to do some work on that, but just could not quite get to it! Whew, not exactly what I wanted to hear, approaching 52 yrs in June!

LOL.......

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Will a 505 Gibs case cut to 2.1" single stack in a WSM action?

That is a good question, but if the Rigby case is trouble for Winnies, what will anyone do with a super, super, magnum case head?

I suppose that a Gibbs case could duplicate a hot 500 Mbogo in a 2.5" case.
what would a 2.1" Gibbs do?

Can anyone project the Quickload water capacity for these, assuming a .510" mouth and a .5" neck?

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:

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These did loose stability, but made it to a minimum of 23 inches before doing so. This has nothing to do with the bullet, and everything to do with a .474 caliber bullet going down a .477 bore. As you can see, there is no engraving at all, not even a faint mark! Akin to going down a smooth bore, so whatever stability there was is because of a pretty damned good bullet!

I think this bullet is certainly ready for field use, in a proper bore sized rifle.

That's right! It was the .470 Capstick! Thanks for the reminder!
So I suppose a .476 diameter bullet going down the tube would fare better, as used in the .476 Westley Richards. The problem with these bullets that I can foresee is that the selection of bullets for this caliber seems to be fairly limited in case one wanted to make a .476 Capstick.
Still that caliber fascinates me somehow. Maybe in a past life I was a great bwana who swore by his .470 Nitro or .476 WR double.

Glenn

You know, these are wonderful days we live in when it comes to bullets! Not too many years ago I would have been pretty screwed over with these Capsticks and their .477 barrels! I would have had to rely no doubt on anything that was available, .476, which would not have been much, I have not even looked at .476 to see.

Today, If I had a notion to, I would just send an contact either Dan at CEB, or North Fork, and tell them make me a run of .477 caliber bullets--end of story! It's not any more difficult to make .477 than it is to make .474 or any size you desire!

Of course, not so easy with something like Hornady or Barnes!

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Hey Michael
Will a 505 Gibs case cut to 2.1" single stack in a WSM action?

Boomy

I really don't know--I think I must get a few of these sample cases in that I can cut, mold and play with to see what can be done. Since I don't have any of these, I really can't say........



Tanz

Case heads, yes bit of an issue. However, I do forget sometimes that I have a big time "Secret Weapon", named SRose! I think if I could get some sort of case that I could stick two down in the box, single stack, FEED proper and function proper, then all I have to do is get SRose to take the rim size down on the cases to where they fit in the Winchester bolt face, which I believe is the route I would go if trying to fit one of the big cases in the Winny single stack down. Or for sure that is an option. Sam would make short work of that for me.

I think we must look more into that when I return later, right now I am up to me eye balls until August most likely!

Michael

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Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

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Originally posted by boom stick:
Will a 505 Gibs case cut to 2.1" single stack in a WSM action?

That is a good question, but if the Rigby case is trouble for Winnies, what will anyone do with a super, super, magnum case head?

I suppose that a Gibbs case could duplicate a hot 500 Mbogo in a 2.5" case.
what would a 2.1" Gibbs do?

Can anyone project the Quickload water capacity for these, assuming a .510" mouth and a .5" neck?

I was thinking for a 577
Try to get 650's @ 2,000 and 750's @ 1,800 like the 577 2 3/4" but with 60k PSI. 500 NE power but larger bullet and with solids penetrate as much as needed. Was thinking the short stubby woodleigh bullets would still expand well being in the functional impact velocity envelope under 100 yards. Would burn up most of the powder in 18" barrels too. If using just the woodleighs you could do 2.25" like all the other B&Ms and get more power. Anyone up for shooting 750's @ 2050 in a 6.5 lb gun? !

Doc M,
Thanks again for your castoffs! I bet they will shoot into one hole when I seat them out to fill the 3.6" Winchester box, sticking out of the 2.65" Lapua case.
A little Weatherby-style throat (up to caliber length of parallel-sided freebore) has always worked wonders for me.

I stopped by "Hilltop Gun Shop" at Falls of the Rough, KY on the way to shoot the .458 B&M today.
Stood beside Master Gunsmith and Mechanical Engineer Rusty McGee, as he fireformed 6 of the 49/.338LM cases for me.
Good chamber, good brass. A thing of beauty, holding those cases in my hand. He will do the feed job next.
Two down in the RUM box with the third round CRF-ing off the top of the RUM box when the bolt closes.
The M70 bolt face is plenty big enough for the Rigby/Lapua rim.
The M70 box does not have to be lengthened for Lapua Cats, so that is much nicer than doing a full length Rigby.
Rusty is good at making a rifle feed.

Back to the .458 B&M:
Excellent rifle! Brian Alberts made mine feed those FNs to perfection, and there is no worry about any porpoising, it retains the .458 B&M cartridges, fail-proof, faultless.

I had the rifle zeroed in two shots after bore sighting by eyeball at the 50-yard target.
The next three shots went into 0.642" at 50 yards.
That was the CEB DGBR-HP S02 BBW #13 NonCon HP (brass). 2223 fps average for 5 shots from my 19-3/4" barrel. 77.0 grains of AA 2520.
This may be a little slower than your rifle,
but my rifle has that "special throat" that has 0.450" of parallel-side freebore,
instead of the 0.250" that I think is standard on the SSK reamer.
Brian Alberts charged me $65 for that extra 0.200" of jump, custom throat.

That might lower my pressures, allow Whisper-Style, long-nose, heavy bullets, and make use of my slightly faster twist, 1:10".

It ain't hurting accuracy!
The second 5 bullets out of my new Pac-Nor barrel grouped like this at 50 yards:

3 shots (center-to center) went into 0.149".
The fourth shot enlarged the hole slightly.
The fifth shot opened the group up to 0.547",
and bumped my earmuffs off one ear.

CEB DGBR S01 BBW #13 Flat Base Brass (FN Solid)
2.5X Leupold Ultralight with 1/4 MOA clicks, that are really 1/4 MOA:



It is a wonderful little gun capable of elephant hunting or whaling. It wailed today.



I have only one gripe with the .458 B&M loads I tried today.
Heavy compression of the ball powder AA 2520.
It is foolproof for pressure with the 450-grainers, however.
Very accurate and impossible to get too much pressure with the limited case capacity at 3.000" COL.
I want to try Hodgdon Benchmark Extreme, figuring that faster powder might do well in my longer throat (pressure let-off).
I'd like to get 2300-2350 fps in the 19-3/4" barrel.
Maybe?
My barrel is not too far off your 20" velocities as is.

BTW, the 450-grain CEB-FN was only about 1/2" lower at 50 yards than the 420-grain CEB-HP, and only 20 fps slower. 2203 fps vs. 2223 fps.

Same load data and rifle, North Fork 450-grain copper bullets were not as accurate as the CEB brass, but that FP solid was the most velocity-consistent, and a little faster (5 shot averages):

FP: 2234 fps with extreme spread of 7 fps and standard deviation of 2 fps.
SP: 2190 fps with Es of 12 fps and Sd of 5 fps.


They shot to about same POI as the CEB 450-gr FN, but maybe the accurracy would be better if I had cleaned the rifle before switching from brass to copper bullets.

And another BTW, thanks for the .500 MDM load data. Good starting place for the 49/.338LM, with all those bullets ... 49-10

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(now the blood has heated to the boiling point)

No, that's not something to tell a guy over 45 just before they go to the doctor! You're liable to get every blood pressure medication in the pharmacy after such a prank!

With my wife and me, just about any day of the year could be April Fool's day. She recently sneaked up on me and scared the fool out of me early one morning! Not nice! Not nice at all!

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You know, these are wonderful days we live in when it comes to bullets! Not too many years ago I would have been pretty screwed over with these Capsticks and their .477 barrels! I would have had to rely no doubt on anything that was available, .476, which would not have been much, I have not even looked at .476 to see.

Today, If I had a notion to, I would just send an contact either Dan at CEB, or North Fork, and tell them make me a run of .477 caliber bullets--end of story! It's not any more difficult to make .477 than it is to make .474 or any size you desire!

That's good to know! Another reason for me to get into reloading.