quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Tanz

OK, do you have real time info? I think it sounds like to me they may just be selling out the remaining stock of FN solids, which I understand that there was about a years worth in stock.

quote:

New round nose solids feature a sleeker design for improved feeding. Flat nose versions still available. Please see below for information and availability.

This from the website under buying solids.

Note--FN versions still available. It does NOT say--FN Versions Will Remain Available, or FN Versions and RN Versions Will be Available.

"Still Available"

I think once the remaining stock is gone--End of FN. Unless of course you have word from on high?

?????

M

Let's keep hammering them until they take the round nose out of stores and make them a order only version

Someone get Michael some Grey Goose. I think he used it all up last night
Good to know the lab is safe lol

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

This New Lab Attire Makes me Look Good?

Er ...YES! Black has a slimmin' effect on y'all older fellas ...

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:

quote:

Doc M MIB

I love it!



Like MIB's in the movies keep the planet safe from aliens, you keep the planet safe from inferior bullets!

That's ME!

Doc M,
Yep, lookin' good, thanks for the good humor!

I see that the various "Black Ops" activities at McCourry Institute of Ballistics include:

R&D Skunkworks, "Area 50"

SWAT

Cowboy! Yee ha!

Keep up the good works!

RIP

Yes, there are many things that are "investigated" here at "MIB", some are Extreme top Secret and can only get viewed from having clearance.

Correct, big huge "AREA 50" removed from public view along with SWAT, but glad you got a glimpse!

And it's always fun to play cowboy as well! Yee HA!

I do make that lab coat look good!!!!! Or is it, the lab coat makes me look good?

Well, either way, very proud of the new "Lab Attire"!

Michael

quote:

Correct, big huge "AREA 50" removed from public view along with SWAT, but glad you got a glimpse!

Hmm...Shouldn't that be "AREA 458"?



We all must drink water from the same well.

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:

quote:

Correct, big huge "AREA 50" removed from public view along with SWAT, but glad you got a glimpse!

Hmm...Shouldn't that be "AREA 458"?



We all must drink water from the same well.

There's two of those beasts--50 and 458. Right now I only have the 50, the 458 is still at SSK we only got dies for that one a couple of weeks ago. It's being sorted out right now.

Area 50-----Area 458

There is an MIB extension "Area 458" in Kentucky.
We are loading some AA-2520 and comparing it to RL-15 and Varget Extreme in the .458 B&M ...
as soon as I can get out of the hangar and onto the flight line to send some 450-grainers on a sortie.
My wife was with me when I went looking for "black labs" locally in uniform and scubs shops. Much snickering was heard, when inquiring of the clerks.
I had to resort to a google and internet order from the Ackley company in Missouri. Ironic, the name, eh? P.O. Ackley probably never wore a black lab coat.
Showed my wife the picture of Michael at the loading bench, rear quartering side view of head, wearing black lab, and she said, "Is that you?"
Gray-goateed-bespectacled reloaders in black all look the same to the casual observer ...
So I quickly scrolled down to SWAT and Cowboy Doc M, and she cracked up, knew it was not me.
I do like those black labs.
Will have to get some for the MIB extension campus: "Doc B, MIB-KY"
Lacking a PhD, I could serve as medical consultant to MIB, just in case anyone needs translation/interpretation of ALF's medicalese.

RIP

I was trying to leave ALF alone but Ran across a post of his on another thread. I bet it takes him 15 mins to make up his mind if he is gonna take a piss in the morning.

SSR

RIP

Very Excellent! I think RL 15 and Varget both are going to be too slow for the B&M, but I was wrong once........let's see, that was nineteen hundred and ?....something as I recall! HEH....

Snickering! Hmmmm!

P.O. Wishes he would have had "black Lab Attire".

quote:

Gray-goateed-bespectacled reloaders in black all look the same to the casual observer ...

--Something Like this I suppose!

Oh for sure---We need an extension campus, no doubt--Doc B MIB-KY sounds great! Then Mike down in the swamp land needs one as well--But I already have Doc M locked up tight, will have to come up with something for him? Be the Doc ? MIB-LA Too much fun, you know they are going to ban us for too much fun!

Thanks again, a 1000 Times!

Now, serious note about Barnes! My inside source tells me that there has been a very small handful of "Feeding Complaints", almost NOTHING! This has been a very serious and stupid, ""KNEE JERK"" reaction from some Jerk inside. The complaints about dropping the flat nose line has FAR exceeded the complaints of feeding in an hours time! However the battle is not won yet totally.

If you are concerned about the barnes issue and desire to keep the barnes line of flat nose solids get on the phone to them! Call them today! Call them tomorrow! Call them the next day! Believe me YOU will get their attention!

I am pissed off with them as we all know! However, I cannot fault the bullet! I have used them extensively in the field, buffalo, hippo, elephant and some other critters I reckon, and they never failed me in any caliber! They all test extremely well. I always had it at in the top handful of Proper Nose Profiles and Meplat Size as well! It's not the bullet at fault! It's a good one!

If you want them, get on the phone!

Michael

Yes indeed we need to keep the pressure on Barnes to get the Flat Point Solids back in stores and the round nose can be the one ordered from the web site

The number is 800-574-9200

Have your wife, girlfriend, friends anybody and everybody call and complain about this

I emailed Barnes and hammered pretty hard on them at SCI. The rep in Reno told me they were catching hell. It seems as though we got their attention.

I received an email from Barnes stating they will continue selling the Flat Nose BBS through the factory.

Doc M,
Thanks for setting me straight on the powders for the 450-grainers in the .458 B&M.
AA-2520 for sure.
Hodgdon Benchmark, a new favorite of mine should be fast enough.
RL-10: I have never used that one and it is about time for me to try it.

I shall call Barnes just to get a piece of their ear.
They made a nifty .458/450-gr brass FN solid there ...

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
RIP

I was trying to leave ALF alone but Ran across a post of his on another thread. I bet it takes him 15 mins to make up his mind if he is gonna take a piss in the morning.

SSR

Cross L,
Yep, that urinary hesitancy probably comes from deciding whose bowl of corn flakes needs the golden sprinkle.

I just emailed Barnes as well, they have no doubt about what my opinion of their decision is...

Didnt tell them though, that I will probably only use the BBW#13 in the future..

RIP

Looking thru data on 458 B&M, don't see where I ever tried any Benchmark. Who Knows?

AA 2520 for the 450s and 500s. RL 10X for lighter bullets 300-400.

RL 10X has also turned into a top powder for the 500 MDM, which gave me a bit of a surprise. It seems to be giving much better results than the H-322. 10X also excellent in the 50 B&M, but is not quite as good as IMR 4198 and H-4198.

Buffalo, speaking of #13s--Got in the 9.3s and 375s yesterday! These are excellent looking bullets. I will be testing the 9.3s, probably by Saturday hopefully.





These are perking my interest back to the 9.3 B&M a bit!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
I emailed Barnes and hammered pretty hard on them at SCI. The rep in Reno told me they were catching hell. It seems as though we got their attention.

I received an email from Barnes stating they will continue selling the Flat Nose BBS through the factory.

IMO everyone is wasting their time trying to change the Barnes decision. Someone at Barnes who is high enough to impose his/her decision now has ego involvement with that decision. That person will let the Barnes company die before changing that decision. Making the bullets available through the factory is simply a ploy to deflect the complaints. Once the present inventory runs out, anyone trying to buy those bullets will be told it costs too much money to make another run and be directed to buy the fine new round nose bullets.
My suggestion is that if you don't like Barnes's decision, simply don't buy ANY Barnes product until the person that made that decision is fired.
By the way, there are countless examples of companies that were destroyed by the ego of those in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
RIP

I was trying to leave ALF alone but Ran across a post of his on another thread. I bet it takes him 15 mins to make up his mind if he is gonna take a piss in the morning.

SSR

Cross L,
Yep, that urinary hesitancy probably comes from deciding whose bowl of corn flakes needs the golden sprinkle.

Can we cut out the personal attacks and stick to facts?

465H&H

465H&H,

Sure but every now and then a little humor is not out of place.
ALF comes on a little strong.

Relax a little


SSR

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
I emailed Barnes and hammered pretty hard on them at SCI. The rep in Reno told me they were catching hell. It seems as though we got their attention.

I received an email from Barnes stating they will continue selling the Flat Nose BBS through the factory.

IMO everyone is wasting their time trying to change the Barnes decision. Someone at Barnes who is high enough to impose his/her decision now has ego involvement with that decision. That person will let the Barnes company die before changing that decision. Making the bullets available through the factory is simply a ploy to deflect the complaints. Once the present inventory runs out, anyone trying to buy those bullets will be told it costs too much money to make another run and be directed to buy the fine new round nose bullets.
My suggestion is that if you don't like Barnes's decision, simply don't buy ANY Barnes product until the person that made that decision is fired.
By the way, there are countless examples of companies that were destroyed by the ego of those in charge.

It is not a waste of time Barnes is taking the negative reaction to changing from flat nose to round nose very seriously

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
I emailed Barnes and hammered pretty hard on them at SCI. The rep in Reno told me they were catching hell. It seems as though we got their attention.

I received an email from Barnes stating they will continue selling the Flat Nose BBS through the factory.

IMO everyone is wasting their time trying to change the Barnes decision. Someone at Barnes who is high enough to impose his/her decision now has ego involvement with that decision. That person will let the Barnes company die before changing that decision. Making the bullets available through the factory is simply a ploy to deflect the complaints. Once the present inventory runs out, anyone trying to buy those bullets will be told it costs too much money to make another run and be directed to buy the fine new round nose bullets.
My suggestion is that if you don't like Barnes's decision, simply don't buy ANY Barnes product until the person that made that decision is fired.
By the way, there are countless examples of companies that were destroyed by the ego of those in charge.

IBT

Well, while I am not sure about the wasting your time part of your assessment, I do tend to agree with you that they are going to go ahead with discontinuing the line once the FN are sold out. As I understand they had about a years supply of FN made up in the various calibers. Makes sense to me, they concede to us that they will remain available from the "Factory Website" but not in the distributors such as Midway. I think once the remaining stock is sold out, end of the FN. They also would believe that once the flack settles down in a few months and we see that we can get them off the website then things will get quite on the subject, we will forget about it, and then we will be stuck with the Round nose and that will be that. I think they are not going to commit to doing both RN and FN--it's either or-and I think you are right. Until I see them come out with a statement I contend this is where they are going in the end. If we keep North Fork and CEB in business, I can do without them myself. I am still pissed with them for even considering such nonsense.

Michael

Michael, been following your post since page one and agree with your findings. However, I must correct you on your new lab attire. When using your 1911's or clones, your cap must be sideways and the pistols also held sideways.Secondly, when wearing your western attire, the lab coat then becomes a "duster'.

Bye the way, I do have a mod 70 in 223 wssm which one day will become a 458 super short.

HEY GABO

Well I am glad you finally come out of the "Closet" so to speak! Welcome, and Hi! Page 1---Whew, well you have been right here every step of the way! Long way-Short Time really!

Man, on the 1911s sideways I never really figured that out! Is that something like throwing a curve ball? Maybe throwing bullets around the corners or something? I don't know!

Now the Cowboy Lab Duster--yeah I can get that! I was thinking the same thing myself! I used to have one of those.......somewhere?

I just finished up basic data with the 458 Super Short this week--on bullets I have been working with anyway. I loaded it to the website in pdf, go download it when you get a chance

I was pleased with it, I discovered LilGun recently, and the 458SS likes it. LilGun and WW 296 are tops. Short story, 300 TSX at 2420 fps, MY FAVORITE-325 North Fork at 2310 fps, 350 Speer at 2150 fps, and 400 Woodleigh at 1965 fps. Just can't bust 2000 with that 400 yet, it's getting close on pressures, I could push it a bit I think getting closer to 65000 and bust 2000. But I am very pleased with the 325 North Fork and such! Not bad for a little tiny gun that is 6 lbs.

Glad to have you Gabo, do stick around and please feel free to contribute and join in!

Michael

barnes banded solids fn .410 (450/400)sold out

quote:

Originally posted by 450NE:
barnes banded solids fn .410 (450/400)sold out

I am placing my bets now, you won't see a new production run of those!

No worries however, I have #13s on order now, North Fork has them, and me and North Fork are going to be working on a new bonded .410 very soon! Well, North Fork will be doing....most of the heavy lifting on that Ok! HEH......

M

I could not wait long to get the 9.3s in the mix! I was very pleased with both the 280 #13 Solid and the 255 NonCon. They will do very well in the field.






Michael

I think the holes in the non cons are too small on this one. Causing the petals to shear unevenly which is causing the instability. Just a thought. Great penetration for a 9.3. Looks like 63 to 64 inches is about the average for the #13s.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
I think the holes in the non cons are too small on this one. Causing the petals to shear unevenly which is causing the instability. Just a thought. Great penetration for a 9.3. Looks like 63 to 64 inches is about the average for the #13s.

Sam

You are correct. On 2 I got near perfect shearing, star pattern. On two others 4 blades came off,2 hung on a bit and sheared into 1 bigger petal going all the way to 10 inches close to center. I would say that is what is causing the instability at the end of penetration. They are going straight until right at the end.

The BBW #13 Solid is getting to be boring it's so consistent across the board in weights and calibers. At least it's easy to work with, don't have to go digging around to see how much it veered off course, and no worries about going out the top or sides of the boxes! I'd say it's about as good as it gets.

M

And on the 280 CEB BBW #13 I used a standard load I had been using with some of the 286s, and pressures were lower with the 280 #13 than any of the other 286s, barnes, TSX, Hornady and equal to the North Fork. Lower pressures from 4000-5000 PSI and giving higher velocity, not by much about 30 fps. No down side on that either.

M

We just turned the page, I am going to re-post the 9.3 tests on this page, don't want anyone to miss it.

Michael, please don't test any more 9.3 bullets. They make a fool of me and my penetration predictor.
(I hope you know I'm just kidding. I know that real testing trumps calculator testing any day. However, I believe there's at least some merit in being able to come up with a ballpark estimate. And if you can do so with a rather simple, easy-to-use formula, so much the better!)

Anyway, here were my predictions:

quote:

Cartridge name: ? 9.3 B&M/280 CEB BBW#13 Solid
Predicted penetration in Michael's medium:
69 to 83 ins. 92 max.

As you can see, I missed the mark there by at least 7-9 percent.

quote:

Cartridge name: ? 9.3 B&M/255 CEB BBW#13 NonCon HP
Predicted penetration in Michael's medium:
30 to 36 ins. 40 max.

Might this bullet have penetrated to the predicted 30-36 inches if it had more stability? We could only guess.

Great work as usual, Michael!

I think a .3 SD copper cup point in 375 and 9,3 would be interesting. Get about 35" penetration

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Question:

Do you guys believe that a flat nosed cylinder is stable?

ie if the bullet should lose it's petals symmetrically and you end up with a cylinder, is that stable in the target ( or air for that matter) ?

wadcutters are the most accurate revolver load, aint they alf?

NO BULLET is "stable" in tissue .. as tissue itself is highly variable and "unstable"

.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Jeffe:

Sorry i'm not getting your question regarding the accuracy of wadcutters as it pertains to my question or your comment about the tissue being stable???? PLease clarify the question?

you asked if "stable in air, for that matter" and I answered you .. wadcutters are..

stable in tissue? define all possible tissues.. dont' bother.. that was meant to say "not possible to define all circumstances.. nor inportant

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

As to no bullet being unstable in target, i disagree, round balls are stable in target

i guess you haven't shot many round balls in rifled barrels.. they helix .. ifi they hit with spin, and deform, they spin off course.. hence.. unstable

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

as they are round and have no long axis, their axis always alligns with the axis of direction of motion.

no sir.. they align with center of gravity along the rotation of mass .. a round LEAD ball, striking game, veers off in any which direction ... and are aerodymanicly unstable.. which is why they aren't used in any modern high speed rounds ... buck shot being the exception that proves the use ...

when's the last time you saw a 20m pistol shooter using round balls for target shooting?

only VERY VERY VERY slow twist barrels can send RB down range without grosteque helixing shots ..

so, let's be clear.. we are talking about DR rifles.. and putting LEAD RBs (low SD, which you are a fan of) in a standard twist rifle results in a HIGHLY unstable, inaccurate load, that penetrates like wet noodles on layered tank armour...

Alf, step away from the keyboard.

quote:

Alf, step away from the keyboard.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Jeffe Sorry but round balls are stable based on the definition of aeroballitic or hydrodynamic stability.

The veering of a round ball is due to the Magnus moment.

"Alf, step away from the keyboard"

Who the fuck are you to tell me to step away from the keyboard! !!!

I believe it was a friendly suggestion (rhetorical and typical southern US vernacular) meant to convey both irony and humor. However, your last comment leaves no doubt that you probably should GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD YOU INBRED BACKWOODS BABOON WANKER!! (and don't come back)

How's that for subtlety Alf ...

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
"Alf, step away from the keyboard"

Who the --- are you to tell me to step away from the keyboard! !!!

it was a suggestion, alf, to not inflict any more drunken posts on us.


Jay,.. my god, i am crying from laughing

quote:

due to the Magnus moment.

Alf is describing events which occur in deep space or a vacuum ... that's telling.



Jeffe ... I have a birthday coming up in a few days and I'm reminded of my mortality (daily). I find myself rationing civility for later use when engaging the fairer sex. Y'all Bubbas is gonna have to manage whether ya be Texans or Rhodesians.