quote:

Who the fuck are you to tell me to step away from the keyboard! !!!

Oh, I don't know. He's a moderator maybe?
Sorry, guys. I guess I brought this latest lecture on.

quote:

I have a birthday coming up in a few days and I'm reminded of my mortality (daily). I find myself rationing civility for later use when engaging the fairer sex. Y'all Bubbas is gonna have to manage whether ya be Texans or Rhodesians.

Happy birthday in advance, Mac!
I guess I'll be a Texan because the only Rhodesians I know are Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

quote:

Jeffe ... I have a birthday coming up in a few days and I'm reminded of my mortality (daily).

Funny thing about that birthday crap, seems to always come around at least once per year! Lately I think I have been having more than 1 per year! Least some days I think so!

I see it was a rather, eventful evening! To say the least!




I have a new .366 Solid Listing for you, so you don't forget what is what, and how far this and that.




By the way, I don't always recall what I have posted. I have a report on every caliber we have tested solids and conventionals, and noncons. If you want to see, or want me to post something just ask, I think I can do so.

Michael

quote:

I guess I'll be a Texan because the only Rhodesians I know are Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

Glenn,

For what it is worth. I had Ridgebacks from the age of 5 for a period of 30 years. I studied the breed.

The Rhodesian Ridgebacks (so named after Cecil John Rhodes) name is a misnomer; the breed has nothing to do with Rhodes or Rhodesia. Both the dog and the region were there long before Rhodesia and do not accurately depict the breed's history. The breed enjoys the unique position of being the only truly Southern African dog. It has nothing to do with Rhodesia as the breed was found with Hottentots near Cape Town when Jan van Riebeeck landed in 1652. The Khoisan people was referred to by the colonists as “Hottentots”.

Rhodesia, officially the Republic of Rhodesia from 1970, was an unrecognized state located in southern Africa that existed between 1965 and 1979 following its Unilateral Declaration of Independence from the United Kingdom on 11 November 1965. With its government based at the former colonial capital of Salisbury, its territory consisted of the former British colony of Southern Rhodesia. The state was named after Cecil John Rhodes, whose British South Africa Company acquired the land in the 19th century.

Before 1964, the name "Rhodesia" had referred to the territory consisting of Southern Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia which formed the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland. It consisted of modern Zambia, Zimbabwe, and Malawi; however, when the former colony of Northern Rhodesia renamed itself Zambia on independence in 1964, Nyasaland renamed itself Malawi in 1964, and the colony of Southern Rhodesia changed its name to simply "Rhodesia".

The Natives of Rhodesia belong to the Bantu-Negro stock and are roughly divisible into two groups; those long settled in the country, and the Amazulu, who during the 19th century left Zululand and, passing through the more southern regions, overran Rhodesia and settled in Matabeleland. The natives in Southern Rhodesia at the time numbered about 700,000. At one stage there were no whites but later on we found that white inhabitants had been a few missionaries, hunters and traders - long before Rhodes set foot there.

Cecil Rhodes was born the son of the vicar of Bishops Stortford in England, 1853. As a youngster he suffered from ill health, so rather than following in his several brothers footsteps to be either educated at the best public school or join the armed forces, he was forced to attend the local grammar school. At the age of thirteen (by 1866), Rhodes was sent by his father to live with his brother Herbert, who was attempting to establish a cotton farm in Natal. Upon arriving, Cecil found that the farm wasn’t particularly successful, and so moved with his brother to the new found diamond mines of Kimberley, also in southern Africa. Although at first his new trade of being a diamond prospector seemed pretty bleak, he soon began making money, and by the age of twenty he had become very wealthy.

With his money, he was able to return to England to undertake study at the prestigious Oxford University, in 1873. He kept returning to Kimberley to see how his business interests were being maintained, so he didn’t emerge as a graduate from the university until 1881. By then he had formed the De Beers mining company, by merging several smaller ventures, and controlled much of the mining in the area. That year also saw Rhodes’ life as a politician begin when he entered the Cape Colony Parliament, which ruled over what is now South Africa.

In 1885, Rhodes persuaded Britain to annex Bechuanaland (now called Botswana), in an attempt to prevent the Boer Transvaal Republic from extending its territory northwards. He had visions of Britain controlling all of southern Africa, and the Transvaal Republic was seen as one of the main threats.

Three years later (now 1888) he had control over all diamond production in Kimberley, and set about persuading the leader of Matabeleland (now Zimbabwe) to grant him all the mining rights to that country. He was duly given them, although the leader, Lubengula, later complained that he had been deceived (don't be surprised). In 1889, Rhodes became the head administrator of the British South Africa Company, which was charged with controlling what is now known as Zimbabwe and Zambia, and also with developing new territory north of these regions.

In 1888, Rhodes met with Lobengula, Ndebele leader and son of Mzilikazi. With a translator deliberately explaining hazy and incorrect details, Rhodes got Lobengula to agree to the Rudd Concession, which permitted British mining and colonization of lands between the Limpopo and Zambezi rivers. In the same agreement, all Boer (the Afrikaners migrating up from South Africa) activity was prohibited. In exchange, the British would pay Lobengula 100 pounds a month, as well as 1,000 rifles, 10,000 rounds of ammunition, and a riverboat. Lobengula hoped that this agreement would cut down on other Europeans entering his land. Unfortunately, the opposite occurred.

From 1890 onwards, Rhodes and his BSAC continued northwards, making their own laws and installing their own government. The "Pioneer Column," an army of five hundred led by Rhodes, marched north into Mashonaland, taking over Fort Victoria (present-day Masvingo), establishing Fort Salisbury (present-day Harare), and setting their sights for more. By 1895, white settlers had appropriated much of the plateau for farming, and the country was now known as "Rhodesia."

Cecil Rhodes’ political career was blossoming at the same time, and the following year he became Prime Minister of the Cape region. All the time he was looking for ways to fulfill his dream of British domination of the whole of southern Africa. Soon after the region of Matabeleland was renamed Rhodesia in his honour, Rhodes was approached by a group of British settlers, victims of discrimination, from Transvaal Republic, who planned to overthrow the Boer run government. Rhodes, seeing it as an opportunity to forward his vision, backed the plan. On December 29, 1895 a British South Africa Company force invaded the republic, but were soon driven back. The invasion became known as ‘Jameson’s Raid’, after its leader, Leander Starr Jameson, who was duly sent to prison for the part he played. Remember that the 2 Boer Republics (the Free State and Transvaal belonged to the Boers and did not fall under British rule). Again don't be surprised that Rhodes would use force (military action) to disown what belongs to another nation ... simply greed for money and power.

Although Rhodes avoided a similar fate, it was obvious that he’d given the attack his backing, so he was forced to resign as Prime Minister in 1896. Then he engaged in the Anglo-Boer Ward that started in 1899 and died 1902, after having an active role in the Boer War. During the Boer War, Rhodes went to Kimberley to help during the siege, but he was more of a liability than an asset. The British military found him intolerable. In particular Lieutenant Colonel Kekewich disliked Rhodes because of Rhodes's inability to cooperate with the military. Rhodes kept demanding that the military adopt his plans and ideas instead of just doing as they said.One of his goals was to build a railway from Cape Town to Cairo, Egypt. The remnants of those tracks and trains are still in use today.

The Blacks of Southern Africa never kept the Ridgeback as a companion or pet. They belonged to the Hottentots and were used as a hunting dog. Assigning the name, the prefix, to the breed known descriptively as Ridgeback, had nothing to do with neither Rhodes nor the territory what was later to be known as Rhodesia, also named after Rhodes. In the book "THE RHODESIAN RIDGEBACK, The Origin, History and Standard" by T.C. Hawley we read:

on page 11:

Kolben in “Bescrywing van die Kaap Goede Hoop” …. “who arrived in the Cape only 53 years after Jan van Riebeeck (1652), after briefly listing a variety of dogs ….. goes on to describe the Hottentot dogs”.

On page 13:

Dr O. Dapper in “The Early Cape Hottentots” …. “1688 : dogs were the only domestic animals kept by the Bushman” Bear in mind in those early days of discovery the name Hottentots and Bushman were used interchangeably.

On page 27:

The daughter of Rev. Charles Helm of Bulawayo … “she recalled that about 1879, her father brought back with him two ridged dogs on a trip to Swellendam (near Cape Town)”

And so we see that quite often in history that influential people or people in power can take credit for things, and name things after themselves, and in this case, albeit not to Rhodes’credit for developing the breed today, called the breed a Rhodesian Ridgeback. The credit must go to the Hottentots in all fairness.

RHODES JUST LIKED WHAT HE GOT ... HE HAD NO PART IN ENHANCING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE BREED - HE WAS JUS A BENEFICIARY LIKE MANY OTHER WHITE SETTLERS THAT GOT THESE DOGS FROM THE HOTTENTOTS, AND SO THE BREED SHOULD BY RIGHTS BE KNOW AS THE HOTTENTOTS RIDGEBACK.

Mr Barnes got Ridgeback owners together in 1922 and drafted a breed standard and subsequently submitted it to KUSA (Kennel Union of SA) to be recognised as a pure breed in 1924. Some amendments were later made to the breed standard, and much credit should actually go to him for making the breed an officially recognised breed. By then Cecil John Rhodes had already passed on in 1902.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

due to the Magnus moment.

Alf is describing events which occur in deep space or a vacuum ... that's telling.



Jeffe ... I have a birthday coming up in a few days and I'm reminded of my mortality (daily). I find myself rationing civility for later use when engaging the fairer sex. Y'all Bubbas is gonna have to manage whether ya be Texans or Rhodesians.

Many happy returns

Growing older sure beats the alternative

SSR

quote:

white inhabitants had been a few missionaries, hunters and traders

I almost missed the relevance to Terminal Bullet Performance but, there it is.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:

quote:

white inhabitants had been a few missionaries, hunters and traders

I almost missed the relevance to Terminal Bullet Performance but, there it is.

K9 history is good!

Well, I have not taken the time to read Warrior and the lesson on the ridgebacks just yet, but I suppose this thread can take a lot of turns as long as it's "educational"! I do see mention something about a 1000 rifles and 10'000 rounds of ammo as well, so there you go, reckon that will qualify!

I must read that in its entirety soon as I get a chance!



CrossL

Are you building a 416 yet, or have one yet??? You must get some of these #13s and shoot something when you are ready! That 325 NonCon has to be wicked.

M

Sam

I sent u a PM.

Thanks

Michael,

I just saw Gerard's petty comment and wish to apologize to you if I posted info on your thread that is not related to terminal performance and it is perhaps offending you. Trust me that it was not my intention to derail the discussion, as I just shared some interesting info when I saw reference made by Mac of Rhodesians and from Glenn on Ridgebacks.

I trust however that you are way above such pettiness and paranoia as displayed here by Gerard that apparently operates in waterproof compartments with no leeway whatsoever for constructive side comments.

Take care and be good.
Warrior

Warrior

No issues at all. Like I said, I want to read more than what I have had time to do so far. I once knew a couple of ridgebacks--a friend of mine had two of them. One was a little crazy, but he was getting old too! I find many things interesting. I take us some off course from time to time myself with other things. So no worries, not from me.

Speaking of "off Course", while I was testing the 9.3 #13s, I was also attempting to start pressure traces on the 50 B&M AK. Well, there is a purpose for this, one of which I just have not done as much work with the lever gun cartridge in .500 as I should have done. It always got the back burner. But it also is one of the easy B&Ms to do, so it has a following, and there is a lot of interest in it. So I must get some good numbers on this cartridge in the Marlin rifles.

Sometimes working with strain gages is a pure bitch from the start. I swear it can drive me insane sometimes. I attached a new gage to one of the Marlins Thursday. Range was busy on Friday, so I planned an early start Saturday morning. I also attached a new gage to one of the 50 B&M Super Shorts, to work with some new bullets I had not traced since 2008. The new North Forks at the top of the list, and in addition I had discovered LilGun which is top powder in the 458 Super Short, so need to work with it in the 50 as well.

Had a good hookup, on the 50 B&M AK--looked great, calibrated quickly, ready to shoot! Rd #1, 43000 or so PSI with a 400 Sierra and 62/IMR 4198. About right. Lost connection due to recoil pulling the connector out! Start over, when you reconnect it won't record unless you start over. Good connection, now the wires themselves pull out of the connector! Damn! No reading. Now I have to put the wires back in the connector. How to make them stay in? OK, little super glue should solve that. So that's what I do. I think I let the glue dry enough, so I reconnect into the plugs! OK, have connection! Good. Opps, no reading? Again, no reading? Wiggle wires--looks good. Recalibrate? No reading. OK, reach over to pull the connection, but the damned thing is GLUED in tight! DAMN DAMN DAMN! OK, cut the wires on the connector, put another new wire on, spliced, Maybe? Nope, no go! OK, try and get the connector out of the strain gage--Nope, glued tight! Pliers? Nope, now I have pulled the wire out of the strain gage connector! Bad news! Sam knows this! Tiny, so tiny I can't work with it! Have to have a lope to even see proper! Pissed does not begin to explain it, I jerk the damned strain gage off completely, march in and scrape the remains off the barrel, and put a new gage on! Has to at least be on for 24 hours--So maybe today I can start again! Sometimes.....................! I spent at least 2 hours monkeying with that!

Did get some work done on the 9.3s and the 50 SUper Short. Will be loading up this morning to give it another go! I managed to only get 2 rds of that load to register, both were around 42000-43000, which I think the Marlin action is rated around 45000 or so???

The ups and downs of some of this will drive one to drinking!

M

Bowen 475,

Answered you PM.

Sam

Michael,

Strain gages will turn you gray with those little wires. Blind too trying to see them. Sorry I'm not there to help.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

Strain gages will turn you gray with those little wires. Blind too trying to see them. Sorry I'm not there to help.

Sam

Yes, if you had been here you might could have pulled some "Sam Magic" on the strain gage wire, as you have done just that before. Not me, can't see the damned thing good enough to strip it, then push it back in the connector! Pissed off, and jerked the damn thing off! Have a new one today, yesterday I connected it up, it works, but had a hard time getting the connecting wire into the strain gage for some reason! But got it, have it duct taped down now! Maybe it will work, find out today!

M

Michael,

Go get some electrical tape and wrap those things up so the recoil doesn't snatch them off.

Sam

Sorry I'm not there to help I feel like a jerk. I come to this post almost every day expecting to see some new data and it just dawned on me how much work its been for you.
I get so frustrated with equipment problems like that it sometimes can ruin my entire day. I end up smashing or breaking something in anger and regret it later. Just take your time, we aren't going anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
Sorry I'm not there to help I feel like a jerk. I come to this post almost every day expecting to see some new data and it just dawned on me how much work its been for you.
I get so frustrated with equipment problems like that it sometimes can ruin my entire day. I end up smashing or breaking something in anger and regret it later. Just take your time, we aren't going anywhere.

Ptaylor

Well, I am very happy that it's important enough to you that you must take a look each day! Thank You! Honestly, I do wish I could do more and I try! But sometimes, like right now, I have to do some other test work besides terminals. There's an article coming out on the 50 B&M AK and I have neglected getting proper pressure traces and data on that cartridge, now there is going to be yet another article on the same cartridges, and I feel very compelled to get some of this data done as quickly as I can! Having a hookup issue Saturday put me a little behind---But Behold I have a connection today and I am busy gathering data! So far so good!

Thanks for your support--It is appreciated!

Now, back to the load room, and back to the range for round 3!

Michael

Sounds like that strain gage became the "son-of-a-bitch" tool that got flung across the shop with the anger of frustration only to discover it was in fact the next tool necessary to finish the task at hand.............


I'll send a pm with a better explanation.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Sounds like that strain gage became the "son-of-a-bitch" tool that got flung across the shop with the anger of frustration only to discover it was in fact the next tool necessary to finish the task at hand.............


I'll send a pm with a better explanation.

Andy

Andy

Yep--That pretty much sums things up in a nutshell! At least there was no hammer close by! I have been known to do awful things if I can get my hands on a hammer! It's a preferred tool of mine for totally destroying things that frustrate me! Ask Sam!

But-- I Am Kicking it's ass today!

Michael

Two things people like Michael should be banded from owning, hammer and dremel tool!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Two things people like Michael should be banded from owning, hammer and dremel tool!

Oh don't worry, when "THEY" find my stash they confiscate them, but sooner or later I slip another in. Ordering off the internet they never know what I get in! You really should include vise grips as well! Man I can do some damage with that too! You would be amazed at the things I have destroyed with a Dremel Tool! Me and Tools--Very bad combination! Very bad!

M

Warrior, thanks for the history of the Rhodesian Ridgeback. I can honestly see the connection with the thread: Big dogs, big bores!

quote:

Me and Tools--Very bad combination! Very bad!

Michael, as Bob Dylan sang in the song Rainy Day Women #12 and 35, "But I would not feel so all alone!"

I know of a certain young man who almost requires a permit to use a hammer ever since he set off a shotgun primer with one on the front steps while dad was asleep.

I meant his dad, not my dad. Hehehe.)

One contributing cause of this piece of "high comedy" was summed up by the next line of that Bob Dylan song: "Everybody must get stoned!"

I don't know who he was, but I understand that young man now frequents internet forums and makes semi-irrelevant posts...

Hey Michael458,

How's the .410 CEB#13 coming along?

Don't we have a test to do?

I have some bright and shiny .620 SHARRC FNs as produced by Macifej for you to play with, admire, drool over and kowtow to ...

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
Michael,

Trust me that it was not my intention to derail the discussion, as I just shared some interesting info when I saw reference made by Mac of Rhodesians and from Glenn on Ridgebacks.

Take care and be good.
Warrior

That was excellent and I enjoyed the diversion and education.

It's not all about Michael rolling around naked in piles of shiney bullets.

quote:

a hammer! It's a preferred tool of mine for totally destroying things

Crosspeen or Ballpeen?

I have found both to be equally destructive but they have their own idiosyncracies.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Hey Michael458,

How's the .410 CEB#13 coming along?

Don't we have a test to do?

I have some bright and shiny .620 SHARRC FNs as produced by Macifej for you to play with, admire, drool over and kowtow to ...

Doc

Let's see--.409s are on the way! Let's see, something else too, OH-- lot's of .620s and .585s are on the way also. Seems like something else, wait, yes, I think some more 416s are also on the way, 325s and 350s as I am nearly out of those now! If I was a betting fellow, I would say by Friday I might have bullets on the shelves! But, I ain't much of a betting type feller! However, no crap buckwheat, they are on the move and on the way!

Yep, we do have some testing to do for sure, I must get these to you so you can load'em up!

I have been waiting on those "Sharcs".

You know, I still have some 458 barrel strain tests left to do also--Is there anyone on the planet out there that might have some of MacJs---Magic Sharcs in .458 caliber???? I'd like to see how those "Sharcs" do in a barrel strain test!

quote:

It's not all about Michael rolling around naked in piles of shiney bullets. Eeker

Gees, let me see, what did I do with all the naked photos I had of myself rolling around in the bullets? No, not there, here they are, no that's not me, that's "her", let's see.....what did I do with those..........Oh well, soon as I find those nude photos of me rolling in the bullets I will get them posted for ya'll!





Andy

You must post that "Tool" PM you sent to me here on terminals! That is too funny! We must share that!

HEH HEH---The truth of the matter is that someone was watching the things I do with various types of tools and they explained in detail some of the things I think tools are used for! I think I have done nearly every one of them mentioned!

HEH

Michael

I see 465HH is off his meds again! Hey I would give you some of mine, but I don't want to get caught without any! HEH

465 HH, what is it, every time you get out of my sight you go and get in trouble! I am going to have to keep a closer eye on you! Now Behave yourself! You know RN bullets can't out penetrate a flat nose solid! In no Arena! Regardless thereof! I have even heard you say so!



Michael

Michael,

I have been afraid to incur your rath. There is one that I know will or at least has for me.

465H&H

SSR

I am no expert...in fact just a peon in this world...but Mike Brady is a good friend and I keep up with Michaels research as well as North Fork's.

Every test I have seen show that Woodies...oops...Woodleighs SUCK!

But I dunno.

Michael...You asked, and here it is!

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted project which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.

WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time it takes you to say,"Oh, shit!"

SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short.

PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of blood-blisters.

BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.

HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle... It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.

VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.

OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub out of which you want to remove a bearing race..

TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood projectiles for testing wall integrity.

HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack handle firmly under the bumper.

BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to cut good aluminum sheet into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the trash can after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside edge.

TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of everything you forgot to disconnect.

PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under lids or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads.

STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering your palms.

PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.

HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to make hoses too short.

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while in use.

Son of a bitch TOOL: Any handy tool (strain gage) that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling "Son of a bitch" at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.

quote:

Son of a bitch TOOL: Any handy tool (strain gage) that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling "Son of a bitch" at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.

Can you find a thread more entertaining than this one in all of AR? I don't think so!

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Michael,

I have been afraid to incur your rath. There is one that I know will or at least has for me.

465H&H

Ahhhh, no worries, long as I keep to me meds!


HEH.......
M

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am no expert...in fact just a peon in this world...but Mike Brady is a good friend and I keep up with Michaels research as well as North Fork's.

Every test I have seen show that Woodies...oops...Woodleighs SUCK!

But I dunno.

Ledvm

I think there are very few "experts" at some of this! Many who claim to be for sure! Me, just a student of! Seems to me, it's consistency that we are looking for. Something we can count on more times than naught! While all of them can fail at some point, what is most likely to succeed with the most consistency? In my opinion, it ain't no RN of any sort! While it may succeed some of the time, I think it is the one that is most likely to fail while others are more likely to succeed. Give me a a good flat nose profile for that, whether it's a North Fork or a BBW #13!

I do try to be objective, but it is very hard, we all have our prejudices. When we started this great adventure I was very much in favor of the FN solid. Today, I am even more so in that camp than ever. But today I think we all know a lot more of how, why, and what, than we did, I know I do for sure. What we have all seen is outside of my test work and field work, the results of many others have been the same. North Fork does test as well, and what they see is the same as myself here. Mike, RIP, and some others, Same story. All across the country, anyone that is doing any test work with these, always comes to the same conclusion! RN Sucks--FN Rules! To put it simply! I speak in general, there are always some exceptions here and there, but overall that is the basic "Rule Of Thumb". None of which can really deny these facts.

Keep the faith Ledvm! And thanks for the support too!

Michael

I want ya'll to pay particular attention to the "Tool" section drewhenry posted! He sent that to me, I started reading it, and decided that someone had been looking over my shoulder every time I had used one of these tools and made this up based on what had been observed of my "antics". I swear, I did not realize anyone was watching?

There are some of those tools that even scare me, and I refuse to get myself, as I know how much could be destroyed if it got into my hands, things like a band saw, oxyacetylene torch--That would be totally out of control. At least with hand tools I am limited to what I can destroy by my own strength!

My latest antic was with that little tiny RCBS Partner press that Sam talked me into getting to do some minor things with outside my other presses! I reckon RCBS made a mistake and did not cut the slot big enough to take a shell holder! My solution to the problem? Hammer! After I found that some light tapping just would not do--I proceeded to get on top of the bench, standing, so that I could get a good swing in and beat my way to success! Well, even that did not work so well! I won't go into details, but I am happy no one had a video camera!

quote:

Mike, RIP

Mike was alive and well (at least for him ) and till testing theory last time I spoke with him a few months ago.

Do you know something I don't?

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am no expert...in fact just a peon in this world...but Mike Brady is a good friend and I keep up with Michaels research as well as North Fork's.

Every test I have seen show that Woodies...oops...Woodleighs SUCK!

But I dunno.

Ledvm

I think there are very few "experts" at some of this! Many who claim to be for sure! Me, just a student of! Seems to me, it's consistency that we are looking for. Something we can count on more times than naught! While all of them can fail at some point, what is most likely to succeed with the most consistency? In my opinion, it ain't no RN of any sort! While it may succeed some of the time, I think it is the one that is most likely to fail while others are more likely to succeed. Give me a a good flat nose profile for that, whether it's a North Fork or a BBW #13!

I do try to be objective, but it is very hard, we all have our prejudices. When we started this great adventure I was very much in favor of the FN solid. Today, I am even more so in that camp than ever. But today I think we all know a lot more of how, why, and what, than we did, I know I do for sure. What we have all seen is outside of my test work and field work, the results of many others have been the same. North Fork does test as well, and what they see is the same as myself here. Mike, RIP, and some others, Same story. All across the country, anyone that is doing any test work with these, always comes to the same conclusion! RN Sucks--FN Rules! To put it simply! I speak in general, there are always some exceptions here and there, but overall that is the basic "Rule Of Thumb". None of which can really deny these facts.

Keep the faith Ledvm! And thanks for the support too!

Michael

For sure we have learned alot thanks to all of Michaels hard work. But there are still several unanswered questions. For instance why does the Woodleigh 9.3 dia 320 grain bullet perform so well in michaels test media while larger calibers don't? Why do RN steel jacketed solids perform so much better in penetration and straight line penetration in elephants or buffalo than the test media would indicate? There is something going on here that we don't understand.

465H&H

quote:

For instance why does the Woodleigh 9.3 dia 320 grain bullet perform so well in michaels test media while larger calibers don't?

This needs retesting. You will notice that in the charts put up this week there was one 73" example. But it was a one time affair, the others "only" do 60-65". Even with Michael's testing I am not willing to trust myself to a long, long 320 gr. RN in .366. Something funny there. I'd rather step down to a FN 250 grain in 338 though.