$70,000 Scam involving Blair Worldwide Hunting.

18 March 2011, 19:01

Bill Quimby:

Straight up questions:

1. Do you personally know Jeff Blair?
2. Have you ever gone on a hunt booked with him? Free, paid in full, or discounted?
3. Do you know Larry Heathington?
4. Have you ever gone on a hunt with him? Free, paid in full, or discounted?

Not trying to be a jerk, simply looking for full disclosure.

And for the life of me, I can't find a single web site dealing with legal definitions and terms that include "malice" as an element of defamation of character, libel, or slander.

18 March 2011, 19:44

DuggaBoye

Disclaimer:
Have never hunted with Blair, have met him at shows--
&
I do not support his position in this matter.

However, as to Malice in Libel suits

Actually, it is and has been a central issue in many cases.

Some won, some lost , some settled even though"truthful" statements were made.

One of the most famous was the Gen.Westmoreland case:

Any public figure seeking damages for libel must follow the stringent standards set in the precedent of New York Times Co. v. Sullivan. A public figure must prove actual malice in a libel suit, even in the face of strong evidence of media misconduct.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westmoreland_v._CBS

18 March 2011, 19:58

larryshores

People can be sued for anything . It doesn't mean they will win.

I am not going to opine if BQ is right or wrong . However, there have been some comments posted herein that perhaps should have been thought out a little more carefully.

The word is spreading on this matter rapidly. BWW has got the message I am confident. The problem as I see it is many people may lose should BWW go bankrupt.

18 March 2011, 20:50

lde

Larry,
You bring up a good point about the folks who have money on the line now. However, they should know who they are booked with and according to BWW, precedent has been set that they forward the monies once they receive it from the customer straight to the outfitter.

What will be interesting is if this policy precedent changes with all of these new allegations being presented...

18 March 2011, 21:06

Jack D Bold

I have a different opinion on spreading the word about Lonnie's non -hunt. Truly sorry that more people may get hurt, but the precedent is set. People need to be informed the facts and risks.

Otherwise, it's kinda like Chamberlain standing by while Hitler invades Czechoslovakia

18 March 2011, 21:14

drummondlindsey

quote:
Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
I have a different opinion on spreading the word about Lonnie's non -hunt. Truly sorry that more people may get hurt, but the precedent is set. People need to be informed the facts and risks.

Otherwise, it's kinda like the Chamberlain standing by while Hitler invades Czechoslovakia

I emailed people a link to the website as well as the statements made from Blair and Heathington and allow them to make their own decisions.

The statements alone pretty much let people know what needs to be known.

18 March 2011, 21:42

Gatogordo

Well, let me go on record as saying that I hope both of the lying SOBs go out of business (of course, it appears that LH is already out of business) or to jail or both. One for being a flat out thief (Heathington) and the other for being an unethical operator at a minimum. I don't have any malice, I just don't like lying SOBs that keep other people's money when they don't deserve it.

Damn, some people are afraid of their shadow.

18 March 2011, 22:02

billrquimby

quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Bill Quimby:

Straight up questions:

1. Do you personally know Jeff Blair?
2. Have you ever gone on a hunt booked with him? Free, paid in full, or discounted?
3. Do you know Larry Heathington?
4. Have you ever gone on a hunt with him? Free, paid in full, or discounted?

Not trying to be a jerk, simply looking for full disclosure.

And for the life of me, I can't find a single web site dealing with legal definitions and terms that include "malice" as an element of defamation of character, libel, or slander.

1. No.
2. no.
3. Yes.
4. Yes. Heathington guided me to my Arizona desert sheep in 1993. I have not seen or spoken with him in nearly 18 years.

Please note that I neither defended nor condemned Heathington or Blair in my posts. I only stated what guided me for more than 40 years as a reporter, editor and publisher.

Bill Quimby

18 March 2011, 22:07

AnotherAZWriter

quote:
Originally posted by billrquimby:
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Bill Quimby:

Straight up questions:

1. Do you personally know Jeff Blair?
2. Have you ever gone on a hunt booked with him? Free, paid in full, or discounted?
3. Do you know Larry Heathington?
4. Have you ever gone on a hunt with him? Free, paid in full, or discounted?

Not trying to be a jerk, simply looking for full disclosure.

And for the life of me, I can't find a single web site dealing with legal definitions and terms that include "malice" as an element of defamation of character, libel, or slander.

1. No.
2. no.
3. Yes.
4. Yes. Heathington guided me to my Arizona desert sheep in 1983. I have not seen or spoken with him since.

Please note that I neither defended nor condemned Heathington or Blair in my posts. I have only stated the principles that guided me for more than 40 years as a reporter, editor and publisher.

Bill Quimby

Thanks for answering. Is your reluctance to condemn either based on your fear of retribution or do you think this is no big deal? Reporters have a long history of reporting things that are in the public's interest, even if it means putting their own careers on the line (thinking of Woodward). I would think "getting the word out" is certainly in the public's interest.

I commented a few weeks ago about a book I recently read; an old one but a good one. "Barbarians at the Gate" was about KKRs LBO of RJR Nabisco. In that book the author describes how Fortune magazine was going to run a negative story about the CEO of RJR Nabisco, F. Ross Johson. RJR Nabisco at the time was a big advertiser in Fortune, and it was Fortune's policy at the time to notify advertisers that they were going to run a negative piece to allow them to pull their advertising if they wanted. Wow. That is impressive.

18 March 2011, 22:27

billrquimby

Yes, I think this is a big deal and, yes, reporters have a long history of reporting things that are in the public's interest. But behind every reporter of a major story is at least one editor (usually several) asking questions and demanding facts, as well as a libel attorney who will read that story, before it goes to print.

So far, no reporter has tackled this story.

I simply do not have enough facts to take a stand. For example, did the Mexicans get any money, and how much? Who were they? How much money did Blair and Heathington keep? What did Blair's attorney remove or add to his letter? What didn't Heathington say in his posts?

And, yes, at age 75 I have no intention of risking my remaining assets by taking a stand on something I know only by what has been posted here.

Bill Quimby

18 March 2011, 22:45

Jack D Bold

quote:
Originally posted by billrquimby:
Yes, I think this is a big deal and, yes, reporters have a long history of reporting things that are in the public's interest. But behind every reporter of a major story is at least one editor (usually several) asking questions and demanding facts, as well as a libel attorney who will read that story, before it goes to print.

So far, no reporter has tackled this story.

I simply do not have enough facts to take a stand. For example, did the Mexicans get any money, and how much? Who were they? How much money did Blair and Heathington keep? What did Blair's attorney remove or add to his letter? What didn't Heathington say in his posts?

And, yes, at age 75 I have no intention of risking my remaining assets by taking a stand on something I know only by what has been posted here.

Bill Quimby

Bill,

Here is a thought - you have the experience to be the investigative reporter. How about digging around for answers to your own questions?

When you are satisfied that Heathington never passed any money over to the landowners for tags, can you run with the story? Who will print it?

When you are satisfied that Blair knew of Heathington's meltdown in September 2009 and failed to warn his clients, then what?

When you can establish that LH used to charge far less than the 70k for a sheep hunt, is that enough to run with?

I think you brought up a very good point. And a lot of us did as well, if we have important information that can save others from harm, it is a responsibility to spread that info.

Cheers

18 March 2011, 22:47

Morning Mist

quote:
Originally posted by billrquimby:
Yes, I think this is a big deal and, yes, reporters have a long history of reporting things that are in the public's interest. But behind every reporter of a major story is at least one editor (usually several) asking questions and demanding facts, as well as a libel attorney who will read that story, before it goes to print.

So far, no reporter has tackled this story.

I simply do not have enough facts to take a stand. For example, did the Mexicans get any money, and how much? Who were they? How much money did Blair and Heathington keep? What did Blair's attorney remove or add to his letter? What didn't Heathington say in his posts?

And, yes, at age 75 I have no intention of risking my remaining assets by taking a stand on something I know only by what has been posted here.

Bill Quimby

Bill I like your style and common sense, it is interesting since both Blair and Heathington were responding that when asked for the Mexican contacts to verify the supposedly purchased tags there has been no response. Personally I think (my opinion) that an attorney would have advised them not to post at all, but since they did....and no response to the questions that they opened. Seems to me that speaks volumes.
As for AZ's questions
1. No
2.No
3.Yes
4.Yes
You want details, PM me.

19 March 2011, 00:03

theback40

My questions are still the very simple ones. BWW said they did all the could to assist. If so, why didnt they say they tried to find another outfitter to make the hunt go foreward? LH said money was paid to the landowners, if so all BWW would have to do is find another outfitter for the $5 grand or so he was paid to oversee the hunt.

19 March 2011, 00:19

drummondlindsey

quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
My questions are still the very simple ones. BWW said they did all the could to assist. If so, why didnt they say they tried to find another outfitter to make the hunt go foreward? LH said money was paid to the landowners, if so all BWW would have to do is find another outfitter for the $5 grand or so he was paid to oversee the hunt.

Thats the $70,000 question! Offers have been made publicly to guide the hunt for free but Heathington and Blair have not volunteered any pertinent information to make this happen.

You would think that Heathington and Blair would turn that information over ASAP if it could clear their name.

19 March 2011, 00:41

lde

They'd have to remember where the money was spent first.

19 March 2011, 01:11

Topgun 30-06

Having retired in 2002 with over 30 years as an Investigator with the State of Michigan in what was the MDA Consumer Protection Bureau my feeling is that before Blair and Heathington came on this BB there may have been a lot of speculation that may have been construed as malice. After they both came on and were asked some simple questions and given a fair and simple way to clear their names and didn't immediately do so, there is no malice by anyone who passes this information all over the net to prevent such happenings in the future. These two guys blew it by not immediately responding and clearing their names on this thread by doing what was offered for free IMHO!!! Also, stating you hope they go OB is nothing but stating that people who violate the law should suffer the consequences, if not by jail time, at least by not being able to perpetrate the same thing on other unsuspecting customers. They have not been back on here because they played their best card (very stupid to make any posts anywhere) and were trumped. Their bluff was called by these other agents and guides and they now simply have no way out!

19 March 2011, 01:48

bwanamrm

quote:
AG charges Broken Arrow man with fraud

BROKEN ARROW, Okla. - A Broken Arrow man faces charges of consumer fraud for allegedly bilking a number of people out of money with a hunting trip scam.

According to a press release issued by the Oklahoma Attorney General's Office Wednesday, James Adam Jenkins scammed more than $75,000 from hunters in several states.

Adams was arrested Tuesday after the AG's office filed three counts of unfair or deceptive trade practice in Tulsa County District Court.

The state says Jenkins used the Internet and magazine ads to solicit money from hunters to schedule, outfit and lead them on wild game hunts in western Oklahoma as well as in Colorado.

Attorney General Scott Pruitt says hunters from Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri and Texas filed complaints against Jenkins.

The hunters say Jenkins accepted their money, then canceled the hunts without refunding any of the money.

In the press release, the AG's office says "Jenkins also does not have leases or permission to hunt the land included in the advertisement."

It goes on to read that "the investigation continues into a considerable number of other complaints with the possibility of additional felony charges being filed."

The Attorney General's Public Protection Unit has jurisdiction to investigater violations of the Consumer Protection Act throughout the state of Oklahoma.

Anyone with information or a complaint concerning suspected fraud can call the Attorney General’s Public Protection Unit at (405) 521-2029 or file a complaint online at

www.oag.ok.gov.

That is the POS that screwed me, my dad and a couple of hunting buddies over a few years back... hope he gets paired up with the perfect cellmate when he does jail time! Now ask my definition of "perfect"!

On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
- Rudyard Kipling

Life grows grim without senseless indulgence.

19 March 2011, 01:50

graybird

quote:
Originally posted by bwanamrm:
That is the POS that screwed me, my dad and a couple of hunting buddies over a few years back... hope he gets paired up with the perfect cellmate when he does jail time! Now ask my definition of "perfect"!

So, are you one of the guys from Texas that filed a complaint?

19 March 2011, 01:59

drummondlindsey

I have been in contact with the people I have worked with for years down in Sonora Mexico. I was able to finally track down a number of leads and look for other pertinent information as it relates to this situation.

I have also been in contact with people here in the States that have asked me to share this information with only certain people that are directly involved with the situation and not post it up on a public message board. I completely understand and appreciate the sensivity of this and WILL NOT, under any circumstances, share this information until I am told that its OK to do so.

I am confident in saying that this is not over by any stretch of the imagination. I would venture to guess thats its just getting started.

Drummond

19 March 2011, 02:13

Topgun 30-06

I'm reading between the lines after taking a look at the previous post and it sounds good to me and not so good for the accused!!!

19 March 2011, 03:12

Lhook7

Testing my new and improved signature

19 March 2011, 04:56

bwanamrm

quote:
So, are you one of the guys from Texas that filed a complaint?

Spoke to one of the Oklahoma investigators from the AG's office...

My post on this forum awhile back...
http://forums.accuratereloadin...=216103867#216103867

You know him Graybird?

19 March 2011, 06:36

graybird

Nope, I don't know him from Adam!

Gotta be a little tickle in your heart knowing his game finally caught up with him!

19 March 2011, 07:33

Mike Smith

Have any of you Arizona boys emailed Tom Horne at the AG's office about this?

19 March 2011, 17:52

tiggertate

This sounds like transactions across state lines occured and one international boundary for sure. There ought to be some remedy at the fedral level. Especially if the mail might be involved.

Since the sum involved is significant and there might be similar prior or future offenses, it might even get a postal inspector motivated to get involved.

19 March 2011, 23:13

Norton

I got the "green bear" solicitation this AM......after my reply, I don't think they'll be checking back with me. They can both rot in hell for all I care.

20 March 2011, 00:08

Brian Clark

quote:
Originally posted by Norton:
I got the "green bear" solicitation this AM......after my reply, I don't think they'll be checking back with me. They can both rot in hell for all I care.

Still waiting to find out what a green bear hunt is?

20 March 2011, 02:21

Aspen Hill Adventures

Would this issue fall under Lacey at all?

20 March 2011, 05:30

Doris

Only 5 replys but it's been viewed 428 times.
http://forums.outdoorsdirector...y-one-thinking-about

20 March 2011, 07:01

Topgun 30-06

215 views as of now on the NAHC website!

20 March 2011, 07:47

lde

2Coolfishing - 1108 and counting.

20 March 2011, 13:40

Mike Smith

No Anne but it would sure qualify under the RICCO statutes. That is even better in my book.

21 March 2011, 01:22

drummondlindsey

A friend of mine just pointed out to me that Blair has about 45 reports on The Hunting Report. 13 of them are negative. 30% negative response is incredibly bad!

I guess cold calling works because with those kind of reports repeat customers are most likely few and far between. Sooner or later your gonna get bent over a barrel if you keep booking with an operation that does business this way