I had mo respect for that guy at bowsite after the great canned wild lion bowhunt. This is a new low even for him. I see he has a "new outfitter abuse control". I guess you are only allowed to say positive things about these guys. To hell with the truth.

The guy who owns bowsite is probably concerned about slander liability if he allows such opinions on his forum..Sad that he doesn't have the balls to stand up for fellow hunters, it does speak volumes about him.

Luckily we have Sayeed who owns this site and he's a bit beyond reach of a slander charge, thus we're free to speak our opinions.

the chef

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
The guy who owns and runs the Bowsite is a jerk off through and through. Hunts canned Lion and Buffalo, supports questionable outfitters and much more. So it doesn't surprise me as he most likely has something to do with Blair Worldwide in some way?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by nomrcy:
I see that. Wow. I don't know why you wouldn't want the public to be informed about this. The tuttulik fiasco is still rearing it's ugly face on Bowsite almost weekly.

Was he the guy who hunted a canned lion a few years back, posted his hunt on his site, then would not allow anyone to say anything about it?

Saeed, yes that is the guy.

quote:

Be advised we will not tolerate abuse, The I.P. address used to complete this form is logged and can be tracked to user location.

Welcome to the "Real World", asshole!

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Note to self: Do not do ANYTHING to piss off Aaron or Drummond.

Blair and Heathington might want to hope they've got some good friends down in Mexico as they might be needing a place to hide out.

You got the correct - just ask Ray Ray about lying on the internet about his monster mule deer. Drummond called him out, proved his case and Ray ran away as Ray always did.

Posted 3/11:

http://forums.coueswhitetail.c....php?showtopic=24119

quote:

Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:
Posted 3/11:

http://forums.coueswhitetail.c....php?showtopic=24119

Nice job Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
The guy who owns bowsite is probably concerned about slander liability if he allows such opinions on his forum..Sad that he doesn't have the balls to stand up for fellow hunters, it does speak volumes about him.

Luckily we have Sayeed who owns this site and he's a bit beyond reach of a slander charge, thus we're free to speak our opinions.

the chef

I am no lawyer, but slander must include statements of fact that are not true ("Blair had sex with his sister" for example [I assume that is not true]). In this case, none of are claiming to make a statement of fact that is not true. Blair himself posted this, and if you don't think it was him, I called him before he even started this and he did indeed state he sold Heathington's a hunt that was not delivered, and they were not going to get any money back. So it is a fact he said this.

I have also called Blair a scumbag. That is not slander; it is rendering an opinion. In fact, recently courts ruled for a citizen who called a police officer "an asshole" after he got a ticket. The court ruled he was rendering an opinion.

Saeed - Yes the the very same guy you mentioned. You can say anything you want on his site as long as it isn't something about him and his ways or how some of his buddies do business. He touts Ken Moody and Sandy McDonalds operations, ones that seem to me have been questioned on here about their methods of operation at times.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
The guy who owns and runs the Bowsite is a jerk off through and through. Hunts canned Lion and Buffalo, supports questionable outfitters and much more. So it doesn't surprise me as he most likely has something to do with Blair Worldwide in some way?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by nomrcy:
I see that. Wow. I don't know why you wouldn't want the public to be informed about this. The tuttulik fiasco is still rearing it's ugly face on Bowsite almost weekly.

Was he the guy who hunted a canned lion a few years back, posted his hunt on his site, then would not allow anyone to say anything about it?

I just got a spam email from him selling "green bear hunts" and other options. Some guys do not learn.

I also just received a spam email from BWW, I sent back a short and sweet reply basically telling them I hope they go out of business and to remove me from their call list. I am in Texas and I have posted this on every hunting/outdoor website I know of. San Miguel Outdoors screwed me over 2 years ago on my first Africa hunt, BUT I did finally get my money back. There appears to be tons of good folks on this board, I'll be back here looking for information for sure.

DVM

Gentlemen:

I just e mailed a link to this thread to every member of our local SCI chapter.

You all may want to consider this as well.

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by DVM97:
I also just received a spam email from BWW, I sent back a short and sweet reply basically telling them I hope they go out of business and to remove me from their call list. I am in Texas and I have posted this on every hunting/outdoor website I know of. San Miguel Outdoors screwed me over 2 years ago on my first Africa hunt, BUT I did finally get my money back. There appears to be tons of good folks on this board, I'll be back here looking for information for sure.

DVM

Ah, Cy Angeloz and Russell Selle. Two more guys that need to go out of business and stop selling hunts. They chose a new name similar to Aarons, ostensibly to get business from them.

I should start a website strictly devoted to booking agents...or maybe we start one here. Problem is, these blogs don't show up on Google like they do on 24CF.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Gentlemen:

I just e mailed a link to this thread to every member of our local SCI chapter.

You all may want to consider this as well.

Thanks.

I got a spam email from a company telling me I could buy an email list of thousands of hunters. I bet Blair bought that.

We should buy it and send out some "helpful information."

Blair, "are we bringing it on yet?"

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Blair, "are we bringing it on yet?"

Yeah, it's brought. TWENTY THOUSAND+ views here, another 5,000+ on the african section, a half dozen and counting other websites linking here, two national hunting organizations informed. And NO ONE is defending these two jackasses.

How much for the list? When do we get it?

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
How much for the list? When do we get it?

Let me know where to send a check

A long read but worth it.... I too am on the Blair call and mail list. I can't wait for the next corespondence..
I cannot believe that this actually happened. How can these gentlemen sleep at night? It sounds like the right people are now involved here... I will be following this post for updates. Funny thing this morning,I was just asked about a recomendation for a muley hunt.. Guess who I mentioned to stay away from? Take note Blair,, another possible client aware of your shady practices.. They will add up quickly..

quote:

(Friend)Also do you have a good mulie outfit?
(Me)Not sure if you know of Blair Worldwide Outfitters from AZ. Make sure you stay from this outfit

After reading many comments on here I am going to be VERY careful in my future negotiations with outfitters. That being said, Russel Selle did mail me a letter stating he was leaving San Miguel Outdoors 10 months before my hunt date. San Miguel literally disappeared from the face of the earth 6 months before my hunt date and I finally contacted Russel who was now "on his own". He put my entire hunt back together, Olivia helped with Travel and we had a great time in Zimbawe, all of this while working with the Guide in Africa who of course had not received any deposits from San Miguel. I have since returned the favor and booked future hunts with Russell, I hope I continue to have positive experiences. I will however be back HERE when I'm looking for a Sonoran Mulie! Just wanted to let folks know I had been treated well by Russel Selle.

DVM

I got this this topic started on Africa hunting fourms as well.

quote:

Originally posted by DVM97:
After reading many comments on here I am going to be VERY careful in my future negotiations with outfitters. That being said, Russel Selle did mail me a letter stating he was leaving San Miguel Outdoors 10 months before my hunt date. San Miguel literally disappeared from the face of the earth 6 months before my hunt date and I finally contacted Russel who was now "on his own". He put my entire hunt back together, Olivia helped with Travel and we had a great time in Zimbawe, all of this while working with the Guide in Africa who of course had not received any deposits from San Miguel. I have since returned the favor and booked future hunts with Russell, I hope I continue to have positive experiences. I will however be back HERE when I'm looking for a Sonoran Mulie! Just wanted to let folks know I had been treated well by Russel Selle.

DVM

Good for you. He booked me into the Selous in early July before the camp was even open, didn't tell me there was a charter flight, the outfitter told me my first buff TF was not included but Selle told me it was, etc. etc. Back then I was young and dumb, but that is why I put my trust in him.

I will never book with the guy.

If someone can manage the emailing part of it, I'm in on helping to buy the 20,000 hunters name list. Like Another Az Hunter says, we're bringing it on, Blair. Get ready, you lying POS, we're just warming up.

I'll gladly email it! I'm just so thankful that Blair provided a statement for us to email. His statement combined with Heathingtons stupid excuses are all we need to paint the picture

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Note to self: Do not do ANYTHING to piss off Aaron or Drummond.

Blair and Heathington might want to hope they've got some good friends down in Mexico as they might be needing a place to hide out.

You got the correct - just ask Ray Ray about lying on the internet about his monster mule deer. Drummond called him out, proved his case and Ray ran away as Ray always did.

Who is Ray?

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by perry:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Note to self: Do not do ANYTHING to piss off Aaron or Drummond.

Blair and Heathington might want to hope they've got some good friends down in Mexico as they might be needing a place to hide out.

You got the correct - just ask Ray Ray about lying on the internet about his monster mule deer. Drummond called him out, proved his case and Ray ran away as Ray always did.

Who is Ray?

Perry

Let's not get sidetracked...

I can't seem to find that email list solicitation. I may have deleted it. Will keep looking.

This thread is now up on two threads at the NAHC website that claims to have over 300,000 of it's 800,000+ member base registered on the site!!! Blair and Heathington are going to be OB soon the way this is going all over the net and there is no doubt in my mind about that!!!

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I just got a spam email from him selling "green bear hunts" and other options. Some guys do not learn.

What the hell is a green bear hunt? Darting bears? Never heard of that one.

Mike

If Blair does go out of business it will be interesting to see how many hunters on the books get screwed.

quote:

Originally posted by BOWHUNR:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I just got a spam email from him selling "green bear hunts" and other options. Some guys do not learn.

What the hell is a green bear hunt? Darting bears? Never heard of that one.

Mike

Mike - Can you send me the spam email on the "green" bear hunts? Would love to look at that! My email is globalhunts@aol.com

Mailing Lists -

Up to 21 states make approximately 15 million hunting license records available. These records are available to one degree or another for purchase from the states.

Do any outfitters currently have access to these records? Would you like to share them with me?

The alternative is to purchase mailing lists, which cost $85/M. I am in for the first 5M. Who else is in?

Glad to see my home state of Oklahoma doesn't take these things lightly!!! Maybe the AZ Attorney General should be involved?

Link to original story. Link

AG charges Broken Arrow man with fraud

BROKEN ARROW, Okla. - A Broken Arrow man faces charges of consumer fraud for allegedly bilking a number of people out of money with a hunting trip scam.

According to a press release issued by the Oklahoma Attorney General's Office Wednesday, James Adam Jenkins scammed more than $75,000 from hunters in several states.

Adams was arrested Tuesday after the AG's office filed three counts of unfair or deceptive trade practice in Tulsa County District Court.

The state says Jenkins used the Internet and magazine ads to solicit money from hunters to schedule, outfit and lead them on wild game hunts in western Oklahoma as well as in Colorado.

Attorney General Scott Pruitt says hunters from Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri and Texas filed complaints against Jenkins.

The hunters say Jenkins accepted their money, then canceled the hunts without refunding any of the money.

In the press release, the AG's office says "Jenkins also does not have leases or permission to hunt the land included in the advertisement."

It goes on to read that "the investigation continues into a considerable number of other complaints with the possibility of additional felony charges being filed."

The Attorney General's Public Protection Unit has jurisdiction to investigater violations of the Consumer Protection Act throughout the state of Oklahoma.

Anyone with information or a complaint concerning suspected fraud can call the Attorney General’s Public Protection Unit at (405) 521-2029 or file a complaint online at

www.oag.ok.gov.

You should e mail a link to that article to Blair.

Here's another story from the Tulsa World.

Man jailed in hunting-guide scam case

By JERRY WOFFORD World Staff Writer
Published: 3/16/2011 9:45 PM
Last Modified: 3/16/2011 9:45 PM

A man who is charged with scamming hunters whom he promised to take on hunting trips was arrested Tuesday, records show.
James Adam Jenkins, 39, was booked into the Tulsa Jail on three counts of unfair or deceptive trade practice in violation of the Oklahoma Consumer Protection Act. He was released on $9,000 bond later Tuesday, jail records show.
According to charges filed by the Oklahoma Attorney General’s Office, Jenkins told hunters from Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas and Missouri that he was planning deer-, elk- and quail-hunting trips for them in Oklahoma and Colorado. He is accused of accepting their money, totaling more than $75,000, and then canceling the trips without a refund.
The state also alleges that Jenkins did not have permission or leases to hunt on the land where the hunts were scheduled to take place.
Attorney General Scott Pruitt said in a statement that other complaints against Jenkins are being investigated and that additional felony charges are possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
Mailing Lists -

Up to 21 states make approximately 15 million hunting license records available. These records are available to one degree or another for purchase from the states.

Do any outfitters currently have access to these records? Would you like to share them with me?

The alternative is to purchase mailing lists, which cost $85/M. I am in for the first 5M. Who else is in?

Count me in for 3 million or so

quote:

I am no lawyer, but slander must include statements of fact that are not true

I am not a lawyer either, but as newspaper reporter, outdoor writer, editor and publisher I always operated on the basis that although truth was the ultimate defense against libel and slander, malice of intent could cloud the court's ultimate decision.

As a result, I always made it a point to never say -- no matter where I was or who I was with -- "I'm going to get that guy." Some of my peers did not heed this, and a few got sued and lost when attorneys dug up people who could testify that malice had prompted their reporting.

Again, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that many of the remarks about Heathington and Blair I've seen on the various internet forums by those not directly involved in the alleged incident might -- and I repeat, might -- be considered libel or defamation of character/invasion of privacy and not slander.

The posts by people who said they "intend to put those people out of business" are most likely to have put themselves at risk, I would think. I repeat, though, I am not a lawyer.

I always found it scary that I could be sued for invasion of privacy even if what I wrote was absolutely true.

Any lawyers out there who might want to comment?

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

quote:

I am no lawyer, but slander must include statements of fact that are not true

I am not a lawyer either, but as newspaper reporter, outdoor writer, editor and publisher I always operated on the basis that although truth was the ultimate defense against libel and slander, malice of intent could cloud the court's ultimate decision.

As a result, I always made it a point to never say -- no matter where I was or who I was with -- "I'm going to get that guy." Some of my peers did not heed this, and a few got sued and lost when attorneys dug up people who could testify that malice had prompted their reporting.

Again, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that many of the remarks about Heathington and Blair I've seen on the various internet forums by those not directly involved in the alleged incident might -- and I repeat, might -- be considered libel or defamation of character/invasion of privacy and not slander.

The posts by people who said they "intend to put those people out of business" are most likely to have put themselves at risk, I would think. I repeat, though, I am not a lawyer.

I always found it scary that I could be sued for invasion of privacy even if what I wrote was absolutely true.

Any lawyers out there who might want to comment?

Bill Quimby

Bill,

Like I said, I am not a lawyer, but a quick check of the internet proves to me that in order for something to be libel or slander, it must be false. Nothing here is anything but the truth; Blair said it here but more importantly he told several of us on the phone that this is true.

I am not worried. Reminds me a new Geico commercial...can Geico REALLY save you money? Does Saeed have more money than Blair??

Remind me to never piss any of you guys off!

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

quote:

I am no lawyer, but slander must include statements of fact that are not true

I am not a lawyer either, but as newspaper reporter, outdoor writer, editor and publisher I always operated on the basis that although truth was the ultimate defense against libel and slander, malice of intent could cloud the court's ultimate decision.

As a result, I always made it a point to never say -- no matter where I was or who I was with -- "I'm going to get that guy." Some of my peers did not heed this, and a few got sued and lost when attorneys dug up people who could testify that malice had prompted their reporting.

Again, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that many of the remarks about Heathington and Blair I've seen on the various internet forums by those not directly involved in the alleged incident might -- and I repeat, might -- be considered libel or defamation of character/invasion of privacy and not slander.

The posts by people who said they "intend to put those people out of business" are most likely to have put themselves at risk, I would think. I repeat, though, I am not a lawyer.

I always found it scary that I could be sued for invasion of privacy even if what I wrote was absolutely true.

Any lawyers out there who might want to comment?

Bill Quimby

Bill,

Like I said, I am not a lawyer, but a quick check of the internet proves to me that in order for something to be libel or slander, it must be false. Nothing here is anything but the truth; Blair said it here but more importantly he told several of us on the phone that this is true.

I am not worried. Reminds me a new Geico commercial...can Geico REALLY save you money? Does Saeed have more money than Blair??

I also am not a lawyer, but from what little (and admittedly it is very little) I know about libel, defamation of character and invasion of privacy, not only could this website and its owner be named in a lawsuit, but also everyone who might have posted anything the attorneys for Blair and Heathington feel unfairly defamed them.

That doesn't mean their side would win, of course. Truth supposedly is the ultimate defense, but when friends of mine lost libel lawsuits it was because the opposition could prove they acted with malice.

Slander, as I understand it, is a spoken statement, while libel is something that is written/published. Whether a post on an internet website is "publishing," I have no idea. I suppose it already has been decided in courts, though.

Another friend and the paper he worked for were sued when he reported that someone had been arrested and jailed for DUI twenty years earlier. His newspaper was ordered to pay the guy who sued him because that fact -- totally true -- was not relevant to the article and invaded the guy's privacy. The paper paid, but fired my friend.

There also are varying degrees of truth. Without a court deciding whether fraud was intended and actually occurred, I personally would be very careful about what I said or wrote. I especially would not say I intended to cause someone to lose his source of livelihood.

I'm wading in water way over my head. Is there a libel lawyer in the house?

Bill Quimby

If those broke dicks have enough money to pony up attorneys fees but won't reimburse the money they pocketed from this disaster then they're even worse human beings than I thought they were.

Lets not allow this thread to degenerate into a bunch of non-attorneys giving legal advice.